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10 paints
2 brushes
Aracnnarok spider
x2 boxes savage orcs
x 2 boxes phoenix guard
Tomb king book
x2 Garro audio books
Latest Horus Heresy book
HE Dragon with prince/ mage


Costing me
171 pounds/ $275US/ $262AUS


And by not buying in Australia saving me:
233 pounds / $375US / $357AUS

Hope that puts into context for the GW apologists the ridiculousnous of the situation for the southern hemisphere

That sorts me for the next 6 months (with other stuff I'm working on) then to my new source (will cost 10% more for postage and more fiddling around than currently)

GW, you suck so much...

but gratz on the last big saving!

It is amazing how much more you guys could (and soon will have to) pay for exactly the same stuff.

Hope you manage some way of staying in the GW side of wargaming.

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
Aracnnarok spider

Living in Oz do you even need to buy one of those?

I mean, couldn't you just buy a monster base, build a terrarium around it and catch something far more scary and intimidating from your back yard?

And I knew you paid more in the antipodes but sweet zombie jesus I didn't think it was that much!

At least you've bought enough stuff to keep you going until you can watch GW collapse under the weight of its own greed!

Leigen_Zero wrote:I mean, couldn't you just buy a monster base, build a terrarium around it and catch something far more scary and intimidating from your back yard?

Local spiders are too big for a monster base. And they hunt in packs. And they can open doors.

Leigen_Zero wrote:And I knew you paid more in the antipodes but sweet zombie jesus I didn't think it was that much!

My final last Maelstrom order was done last week. It was:

3 boxes of Bloodcrushers
8 Chaos Space Marine Bikers
2 boxes of Possessed Marines
1 Daemon Prince
1 Temple of Skulls terrain piece
1 box of Space Marine Devastators
2 Carnifexes
1 Trygon

Total cost? AUD$427.

Total cost to buy from GWOZ? AUD$913. I just saved AUD$486.

The apologists are mad if they think that me paying an additional $486 is 'fair'.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:I mean, couldn't you just buy a monster base, build a terrarium around it and catch something far more scary and intimidating from your back yard?

Local spiders are too big for a monster base. And they hunt in packs. And they can open doors.

Leigen_Zero wrote:And I knew you paid more in the antipodes but sweet zombie jesus I didn't think it was that much!

My final last Maelstrom order was done last week. It was:

3 boxes of Bloodcrushers
8 Chaos Space Marine Bikers
2 boxes of Possessed Marines
1 Daemon Prince
1 Temple of Skulls terrain piece
1 box of Space Marine Devastators
2 Carnifexes
1 Trygon

Total cost? AUD$427.

Total cost to buy from GWOZ? AUD$913. I just saved AUD$486.

The apologists are mad if they think that me paying an additional $486 is 'fair'.

Of course it's fair? It wouldn't be fair if you played, oh I don't know, say MALIFAUX, and GW charged you those prices....yeah, that would be unfair, but if you want to ride on the GW merry-go-round, then sorry old son, you have to pony up the entry price!

Jokes aside, what are you guys planning to do post the "last order"......now thats what I want to know!

London resident - walk to dark sphere, pick up order (25% of UK retail) and then mail it to me air mail.

Still save about 35-40% on Australian prices.

I'll also be buying Krieg from FW.
Cheaper than Citadel cadians or catachans (Krieg are the best models)

Look to the black market (eBay) my colonial brothers.

Seriously though, I'm really sad for you guys. I had no idea just how much a difference there is between ours and your prices until you listed it like that. Hopefully people will avoid buying from GW worldwide and they'll pay attention and things might get better... I won’t hold my breath though :(

Does Australia have a Game designer that has an alternative system?

Any armies, gaming, or models coming form down under to give these guys some love?


Aside from FOW, and that BS they pulled, WHO else out there in Aus has a game and models to start filling in that 300 lb gorrilla in the middle of the room?


The one where we lose a whole market, and still will be fiending for gaming?

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:London resident - walk to dark sphere, pick up order (25% of UK retail) and then mail it to me air mail.

Totally nuts, if I lived in London I would be happy to do this as a civic duty, we should have a Dakka 'Stick it to GW-OZ' rota.....

As a quick question, how do your Australian salaries compare to the UK or US ones? What's the median wage in Australia, expressed in GBP or USD?

Just curious. I understand that it sucks to lose a discount that you're used to.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Okay, no responses yet.

I found this:
Average Full Time Ordinary Time Earnings Q4 2010 State Average Annual Wage Tasmania $57,808 South Australia $60,414 Victoria $64,620 Queensland $65,619 Northern Territory $65,962 New South Wales $66,565 Western Australia $73,148 Capital Territory $76,367
Here (http://www.livingin-australia.com/salaries-australia/). Cannot state anything about accuracy.

Anyway. Picking the middle number, 65,619, that equates to $69070 US, or 42837 GBP.

In the US, according to the government site, http://www.ssa.gov/oact/cola/AWI.html, the average annual wage here in 2009 was $40,711 USD. So, according to these figures, the average US salary is only 57% of the average Australian Salary. In the UK, this site (http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285) indicates that the median salary in the UK is 26k GBP. Here, the UK salary is only 60% of the Australian salary.

I read the letter that Mark Wells wrote on facebook. And, I can understand, Australian shops have to pay their employees in Australian dollars. They have to pay their rent in Australian dollars. While I understand that it's unfortunate that you're losing a discount that you've become accustomed to having, I think your posts are a bit misleading. It does appear that you're expected to pay twice what the rest of us pay - but looking at the data here, you're also making twice what we're making...

If I'm missing something, please let me know what it is. But if you can, please cite references. I've tried to include everywhere that I've gotten my data in case you want to check it out.

H.B.M.C. wrote:
My final last Maelstrom order was done last week. It was:

3 boxes of Bloodcrushers
8 Chaos Space Marine Bikers
2 boxes of Possessed Marines
1 Daemon Prince
1 Temple of Skulls terrain piece
1 box of Space Marine Devastators
2 Carnifexes
1 Trygon

Total cost? AUD$427.

Total cost to buy from GWOZ? AUD$913. I just saved AUD$486.

The apologists are mad if they think that me paying an additional $486 is 'fair'.

That'll teach 'em, Tiger! Nothing hurts GW more than placing an order for hundreds of dollars! sigh...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Waaagh_Gonads wrote:

GW, you suck so much...

And yet your response is to place a large order?? I realize that you might curtail your future purchases but I don't think improving their bottom line in the quarter they make these changes is the best signal to send.

is malestrom now going to stop selling GW stuff?

romegamer wrote:is malestrom now going to stop selling GW stuff?

That's one of several reasons there's so much GW hate on the forums recently. They're raising prices, pulled some models indefinitely with the switch to resin, getting rid of any official previews more than a week before a model is released, purposely delaying White Dwarf subscriptions until AFTER they arive for sale at a higher price in stores, and are not allowing European retailers to ship outside their continent.

Redbeard wrote: Australian wages........

While I can see this side of the argument, there is another way of looking at it. How much is the item worth? Just because I earn more than you, why should I pay so double as much as you for the same item? is it worth double as much? Can you imagine walking into an American GW, the first thing they ask is "How much do you earn a month?" depending on what you say, the prices in the shop alter...just for you! So little Tommy walks in, he earns $10 a week from his paper round, so he pays $15 for his Dark Eldar Archon....you, on the other hand, earn $2500 a month, so you pay $50 for your Archon.....how often would you go back?

GW's excuse for charging so much for their product is weak, and I have say, insulting.....maybe the Australian dollar is strong, but they should balance their prices across the globe, rather than holding loyal customers to ransom on how well their currency is doing.

It's bad business practice, and it will ultimately come back to haunt them.....you see, the problem with currency, it fluctuates....so what happens when the value of the Aus $ drops.....my guess is that the Ozzies can expect a huge price cut...true?

Delephont wrote:While I can see this side of the argument, there is another way of looking at it. How much is the item worth? Just because I earn more than you, why should I pay so double as much as you for the same item? is it worth double as much? Can you imagine walking into an American GW, the first thing they ask is "How much do you earn a month?" depending on what you say, the prices in the shop alter...just for you! So little Tommy walks in, he earns $10 a week from his paper round, so he pays $15 for his Dark Eldar Archon....you, on the other hand, earn $2500 a month, so you pay $50 for your Archon.....how often would you go back?

Don't you think there's a difference between earning more because you do more difficult/important work, and simply earning more for the same work because of where you live?

If you're fine with your time being worth double for no apparent reason then you should be equally fine with paying double for no apparent reason (except that there ARE reasons why you pay double... paying for the double salary of the Oz redshirts, for example)

Delephont wrote:
GW's excuse for charging so much for their product is weak, and I have say, insulting.....maybe the Australian dollar is strong, but they should balance their prices across the globe, rather than holding loyal customers to ransom on how well their currency is doing.

Well, first, let's not go to extremes and claim people are being held hostage. These are luxury entertainment items, they're not food or shelter.

Secondly, can you go into why the 'excuse' is weak? Do they not have to pay salaries in Australian dollars? Do they not have to pay warehousing costs and rents in Australian dollars? One way to look at this is that it costs them more to operate in Australia, because staffing and real estate costs are higher. As a result, they have to charge more. How is this a 'weak excuse'? It seems reasonable to me.

How much do Australians pay for cars? I checked out Toyota.com.au and see their list price for a 4 door Ascent Sedan is $22k(AU) ($23,090US), while the same car is $16k(US) in the US. How much do Australians pay for electronics? A quick trip to Dell's site shows the same laptop, the US one is $449, the AU one is $579 ($607 USD).

Higher currency means higher wages, but also means higher prices because the people who work in those companies need to get paid in local dollars. This doesn't appear to be an issue that is limited to GW - looks like both cars and electronics are practicing the same behaviours. Is it fair to hold GW up as an evil company because they're following standard business practices?

It's bad business practice, and it will ultimately come back to haunt them.....you see, the problem with currency, it fluctuates....so what happens when the value of the Aus $ drops.....my guess is that the Ozzies can expect a huge price cut...true?

Will they see their salaries cut too? Well, that depends on what perspective you take. If you're looking at it from a 'what can we buy with our currency', then yes, they'll have lower salaries, but lower prices. If you look at it from a 'what can I buy here' point of view, then they won't really see much difference at all. All currencies fluctuate. Unless I'm ordering something from another country (like FW stuff), I don't notice in the least. I get paid in USD, and almost everything I buy is in USD. And our currency goes up and down (more down lately) too.

@ Lord_blackfang

Like I said, theres two sides to the argument. I think both sides are valid to a point.

However, I stand by the statement that it's bad business practice. Whether I'm right or wrong, time will tell.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Redbeard wrote: Well, first, let's not go to extremes and claim people are being held hostage. These are luxury entertainment items, they're not food or shelter.

Secondly, can you go into why the 'excuse' is weak? Do they not have to pay salaries in Australian dollars? Do they not have to pay warehousing costs and rents in Australian dollars? One way to look at this is that it costs them more to operate in Australia, because staffing and real estate costs are higher. As a result, they have to charge more. How is this a 'weak excuse'? It seems reasonable to me.

How much do Australians pay for cars? I checked out Toyota.com.au and see their list price for a 4 door Ascent Sedan is $22k(AU) ($23,090US), while the same car is $16k(US) in the US. How much do Australians pay for electronics? A quick trip to Dell's site shows the same laptop, the US one is $449, the AU one is $579 ($607 USD).

Higher currency means higher wages, but also means higher prices because the people who work in those companies need to get paid in local dollars. This doesn't appear to be an issue that is limited to GW - looks like both cars and electronics are practicing the same behaviours. Is it fair to hold GW up as an evil company because they're following standard business practices?

I believe it's a weak excuse, because it absolves GW from taking a look at the true demands of that market. Ok, so you're essentially saying that the stores cost more to run in Australia....ok, fair point. So, question, does Australia need that type of business model, do they actually need stores? Or is this something that GW is imposing upon that particular market? Could the Australian market best be served by dropping the stores, and instead supplying via independant retailers, cheaper online sales, and in terms of the GW Hobby, again, supporting local independant retailers so that they can run Australian based Games Days etc....

Would GW be best off putting the choice into the hands of the Australian market, and actually asking them...what would you prefer, having GW stores in your towns and cities, or cheaper products.....that's called market research by the way.

Redbeard wrote: Will they see their salaries cut too? Well, that depends on what perspective you take. If you're looking at it from a 'what can we buy with our currency', then yes, they'll have lower salaries, but lower prices. If you look at it from a 'what can I buy here' point of view, then they won't really see much difference at all. All currencies fluctuate. Unless I'm ordering something from another country (like FW stuff), I don't notice in the least. I get paid in USD, and almost everything I buy is in USD. And our currency goes up and down (more down lately) too.

If a company is going to justify price rises based on curreny value, they need to follow through with that logic. if the Australian dollar slumps, GW better make sure they allow their prices to follow.....if they don't, they will loose even more customer trust.....when a company looses the trust of it's customers, it's on a good road to ruin...hence, why I state it's a bad business decision.

GW is trying to super-mold one type of marketing strategy for the whole world......this may work in some sectors, but in the luxury goods sector, I don't think it's a winning formula. People worldwide treat luxury in different measures and trying to squeeze every market into the same cookie cutter shape ignores the subtle differences unique to each market. Ignore the market = ignoring the customer = bad business.

Redbeard wrote:As a quick question, how do your Australian salaries compare to the UK or US ones?

The 'wage argument' holds no water. Please stop harping on about it.

I'm sorry, I don't see how it holds no water.

It's not "you pay more because you make more", it's "you pay more, because operating expenses in your country are higher."

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean you can just handwave away legitimate explainations saying they hold no water. Especially not when you link to a post by a user with three whole posts. How do any of us know what he's on about?

It's even funnier because the very next post explains the real reason (which I also posted a few days ago and was completely ignored).

Redbeard wrote:I'm sorry, I don't see how it holds no water.

It's not "you pay more because you make more", it's "you pay more, because operating expenses in your country are higher."

If this were true, however, there wouldn't be a thriving arbitrage "shadow industry" built around circumventing the GW supply chain and supplying the exact same product at a far cheaper price with even more middlemen taking their cut added into the mix.

Yes, it's undoubtedly more expensive to run a brick-and-mortar store in AUS, but that simply speaks to the lack of viability of GW's brick-and-mortar business model, not to the necessity of prices that, even when currency is adjusted for, are 2x what third party suppliers can provide.

Redbeard wrote: Especially not when you link to a post by a user with three whole posts. How do any of us know what he's on about?

That user is actually this user. He just can’t remember his password, so used an older account. I’ve known him for years, and he is beside himself with anger over the sheer lunacy of this ‘average/median wage’ argument.

I’ll get him to come back.

H.B.M.C. wrote:

Leigen_Zero wrote:I mean, couldn't you just buy a monster base, build a terrarium around it and catch something far more scary and intimidating from your back yard?

Local spiders are too big for a monster base. And they hunt in packs. And they can open doors.

And they have health bars....

I think that all this business about prices and base wage average is a bit short sighted and simple.
Gw is a luxury hobby so you shouldn't be basing your price justification not on base wages but disposable income.

Some of you seem to be taking some kind of perverse joy in supporting this open gouging by gw and to you i quote
Martin Niemöller

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

@redbeard:

Yeah... sorry about the 3 posts (I have a funny feeling my old login is connected to my old job! DARN! :()

But on the average/median/mean whatever wage thing, it doesn't make sense when you break it down further. My main points in the last post I had were around things like:

1) Definition and skewness of wages (If 1 person earns 99% of all income, the average will still look huge)
2) Cost of Living: If the cost of housing, food, clothing etc needs to be properly factored in before using that as a gauge, Sydney for example has been the most expensive (and generally top 3 in the last 10 years) which means that regardless of the higher income, there isn't a higher level of discretionary spending.

Also the higher currency works both ways. The expense base for Australia has dropped significantly in the last few years relatively to other markets for miniatures. What could be bought for $50 from overseas now can be bought for $25. So taking staff wages and premises costs the 'cost' associated with running a GW in sheer stock terms should have plummeted. But instread of realigning the price with supply and demand (the supply curve has shifted due to more being able to be supplied at the same price) they keep the price the same (and in essense out of equilibrium to all other markets)

But,
in the end these are all arguments about a flawed concept. That concept being that it is 'fair' or 'efficient' or the 'market price' for these goods are set because the wages are higher. But that is only a small part of how prices should find equilibrium in the market.

Over and above all of this is the concept of arbitrage. That is if prices are distorted (which in this case they are by definition) people can buy and sell to bring the prices back to another equilibrium. The problem here is that Games Workshop are enforcing a monopolistic power of the supply chain hence the distortion of the prices.

If I can buy an item in Europe for $20 and sell it for $30 in Australia and still be undercutting GW by 30%, do you think that GW will be able to maintain this monopoly on resellers in any real way. All they are doing is biting the businesses that in essence have been growing their customer base by dropping prices so that a larger portion of consumers can actively participate.

Not trying to be rude or anything (and hope I wasn't),
but your argument is fine, but it is an argument that the market is under monopoly and is 'unfairly' priced to the rest of the world. GW has the right to do this (to some extent) but doesn't mean that it will achieve what they think it will.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
@redbeard:

Oh, wanted to clear up the analogy that you were using for much larger corporations (toyota, dell etc).

There is a very different concept working here in these, firstly is one of tax, these items are taxed incredibly differently based on the size of the products (not so much dell, but cars more so).

Also, these companies have in essence fixed their price for multiple years into the future with swaps and derivative arrangements meaning that they will not suffer from downside effects of market movements (something GW does not do to close to the same extent). This means that the cost of this 'insurance' is the inability to take advantages of the upside to currency movements.

This however is changing. The prices for most (I say most because GW is an outlier) imported goods in particular electronics is falling. Falling a lot. The reason for this is mostly due to the sustained higher currency value. This is how markets work efficiently... sometimes they take some time. But to imply that the exact opposite happens just isn't correct.

Okay Muddy, I can see that, however, my point isn't that higher wages should automatically equate to having to pay more, but that the side effects of higher wages is that the higher wages mean higher costs.

You case about Cost of Living is no different in Australia than in the US (California versus Idaho, for example).

I'm not sure I follow what you're saying about expense base. You're saying that because what they're selling is now cheaper for them to bring to market, they should have lowered the prices?

But doesn't that then assume that their greatest cost is that of the product? Whereas, it would seem from Well's letter that the greater cost of GW operating in Australia is, in fact, the cost of operating warehouses and shops in Australia, and not the cost of the miniatures at all.

If they pulled out of Australia altogether, and left it to independent retailers to stock the products (if they chose) paying what UK wholesalers paid, you're arguing that the prices those independent retailers would set would be close to the UK prices?

I'm not sure. You mention arbitrage, but I'm not sure it is that simple. GW sets a MSRP based on allowing a reasonable markup for brick&mortar stores (theirs and other's). All businesses do, that's not them alone. The internet discounters gamble that they can make a profit on a smaller margin by selling higher volume, and so they pass some of that wholesale discount on.

In essence, you seem to be arguing that the growth of the hobby in Australia is based on the existence of online discounters providing product at a discount. But GW's stance is that the growth of the hobby is due to Brick&Mortar (both theirs, and independent's) store's investment in providing places to play, meet opponents, and learn about the game. They believe that they need to protect those sources of growth in the hobby, at the expense of the internet discounters.

I tend to believe that there is a little of column A and a little of column B involved, that the growth is due to both the efforts of the Brick&Mortars, and the lower prices. But if the brick&mortars cannot remain viable because everyone buys online, where does that leave them? If GW didn't run their own shops, and did this to protect their trade sales accounts, rather than their own sales accounts, would it be just as bad?

See, it appears that the general feeling on the internet is that GW is run by, at worst, evil masterminds dedicated to squeezing every last nickel from their customers, or at best, incompetent fools who don't understand business at all.

But I cannot buy into that. I see 'price rise' threads, and I see that the prices of raw materials are up. I see that the prices of everything I buy are up. And I figure that, having been in business for over 20 years, GW understands something about pricing and their customers. They pass increases along to their customers not to be evil, but because all gaming companies tread a fine line, and they realize the need to remain profitable (i.e. not sell at a loss).

I see a company that is continually investing in the future. That's not a sign of a company planning on raping their customer base for short-term gains at the expense of long-term excess.

So I see this, and while I understand the position you guys are in, I don't see it as a sign of gross mismanagement on GWs part. They have more data available to them than you do. Maybe they simply place a higher importance on protecting what they believe is the source of growth (Brick&Mortar) than they do on those who are simply pushing volume.

Like I said earlier, I see the same thing in other industries, notably automobiles and computers (prices above). In order to maintain a presence in Australia, they need to set prices based on Australian currency. That just seems to make sense to me.

Why oh why did this turn into a circular argument about wages parity???

Yes we have good wages (average)
Yes we have high cost of living
Yes our economy is going gangbusters giving us a strong currency.
Yes GW has been ripping us off epically for decades.

This thread was intended for members to list awesome savings.

Sorry Waagh, not intended to side track this. Might start this somewhere else.

Oh, THANKS LEGO, I have my old login back.

Delephont wrote:Jokes aside, what are you guys planning to do post the "last order"......now thats what I want to know!

Build it , ran them over with a car or something heavy , let dogs pee on it , and burn it.

Video tape all of the above , upload it on youtube , send link to GW HQ and every Wargamming forum.