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This is something I have always wondered. Since I first started the game I have always wanted to field a Ultramarine army, but due to peoples personal opinion and my pathetic need to be accepted by everyone I never touched them. Now I'm finally over that I'm going forward to build a Ultramarine army.

So now to my question... Why do people hate them so?

Because the Boys In Blue has been given the Redicufluff by every writer ever.

They call it the Nerd Hierarchy in other places.

By ridiculing and looking down on a hobby aspect virtually identical to their own, those deep-down uncomfortable with their hobby, too immature to face up to it and admit it to their peers and friends, can feel "more mature" about themselves and their time in the hobby by the self-delusion of collecting the "superior" plastic toys and reading the "superior" plastic-toy-background-fluff.

Zweischneid wrote:They call it the Nerd Hierarchy in other places.

By ridiculing and looking down on a hobby aspect virtually identical to their own, those deep-down uncomfortable with their hobby, too immature to face up to it and admit it to their peers and friends, can feel "more mature" about themselves and their time in the hobby by the self-delusion of collecting the "superior" plastic toys and reading the "superior" plastic-toy-background-fluff.

Pretty much this.
People want to say their guys are cooler, even though theyre all pretty similar (at least to the outside eye). I play ultramarines myself, and when i walked into my FLGS i caught some flak for it. People told me to play space wolves because theyre 'cooler' or 'better'.
All in all just do what you want, we're all their painting minis and we're all nerds. But like Zwei said, you can't all be equal, because then people wouldn't be able to rip on you for being lamer than them.

We should all be embracing anybody who wants to get into the hobby, not rippin on anybody. The bigger it gets-> the more people play-> the more it's in the spotlight-> the more new stuff we get-> and then the more we can enjoy our hobby.

....Sorry for the rant.

i think mainly it has to do with GW selecting the ultrasmurfs as the poster boy for the hobby. thus, any new players tend to go for the marines, (as these often star in demo games and painting lessons) simply because of the above, the fact they are "easy" to build, painting is also a touch simpler, and they are the "good guys" of the galaxy. the blue ones are also on the box covers, and so on, so obviously newer players who dont really have an idea for their own chapter will paint them blue. that and blue is a pretty easy color to paint. white,red,yellow etc all require multiple thin layers and are more complex to do right, then a 1 coat done blue.

this leads to a horde of 12-15 yr olds playing the ultra marines, and obviously they are less superioir in gaming then you - who has IG/GK/DE/eldar/chaos etc.... so they get looked down on.

a local saying here: "if you see a 13 yr old boy in a gaming store he's either playing yugioh or ultramarines"

i thnk it applies worldwide and no doubt is used on many other locations - because its true.

Hello, your spiritual liege would like to welcome you to the illustrious and invincible Ultramarines! Where you always win in the fluff and everyone hate-er I mean loves you. Don't mind them, they're just upset that Rowboat Girlyman will never be their spiritual liege, and therefore, they will never be Ultramarines! And that will always be their shame!

All joking aside, Ultramarines kind of represent the overdone glory boys of the Space Marines, and when most people consider all the Space Marines to be overdone glory boys by default, it results in them getting a lot of hate. I also believe it had something to do with the current space marine codex, where Matt Ward (your spiritual liege, make sure to put pictures of him on all your banners so you can make lots of friends! ) basically said that the Ultramarines were the greatest chapter of all time, and that all other chapters wished they were as good as the Ultramarines. I think he also said something along the lines that all chapters that aren't Space Wolves, Templars, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels, follow the Codex Astartes (Written by Roboutte Guillman or something like that, in game spiritual liege) to the letter in an attempt to mirror the perfection of the Ultramarines. However, they're doomed to fail, for they will never be Ultramarines...

I've heard that the older fluff for them was actually pretty cool, where the idea that the Codex Astartes was their greatest strength as well as their greatest weakness was explored. Yes, the Codex Astartes made them extremely prepared for any normal foe, but they were left helpless fighting an unknown enemy or situation. I think they lost their entire 1st company when their home planet was assaulted by the Tyranids specifically because they refused to break the teaching of the codex. Then when a captain suggested adding an amendment that included techniques for fighting the bugs, he was reprimanded for daring to suggest the codex was flawed! If GW played this up more I would actually really like this chapter, as then it would have a lot more depth to it than most of the other ones, and could lead to some really awesome fluff. However, most of today's fluff goes along the lines of "Ultramarines get sent to deal with a threat that's killed about 3 billion guardsmen with ease. Ultramarines sends 10 marines. They kill the entire enemy invasion without suffering a scratch. All hail our spiritual liege. The End." And thats why you get all the hate. However, if you do a cool job with your army, and don't beat people over the head with your fluff that basically says you've beaten the entire galaxy 10 times over, I dont think you'll have any problems. It's your army, you could paint them pink and put hello kitty heads on them for all I care. You're playing a game with plastic army men, have fun with it!

Also, they were Matt Ward's favored child for a while, and anything that has come into contact with Matt Ward tends to receive undying hate from the 40k community.

I agree with you AtariAssasin let people play what they want to play. Any time I meet someone who's interested in getting into the hobby I always tell them to go with the army you find most appealing. If you enjoy the way they look and the back story then you will dedicate to the army.

I just dislike what Ward did to them with saying that all space marines aspire to be like them and that Marneus Calgar is the spiritual liege of all space marines. Disregard that and I think I'm pretty cool with them.

I think it is just they get TOO much spotlight. I didnt have a problem until the most recent edition where they became "the best fething men ever"

If I treat them as equals, I actually am okay with them

I see a lot of the hate comes down to the fluff. Maybe I'm wrong here I'm not as up on the fluff as many others, but weren't the Ultramaries the chapter who took on the soul responsibility of defending the Imperium while the other Chapters rebuilt them selves after the Horus Heresy?

DarkWind wrote:I see a lot of the hate comes down to the fluff. Maybe I'm wrong here I'm not as up on the fluff as many others, but weren't the Ultramaries the chapter who took on the soul responsibility of defending the Imperium while the other Chapters rebuilt them selves after the Horus Heresy?

That was because during most of the Horus Heresy they were stuck on the other side of the Galaxy and contributed about as much to the defense of Terra as the Squats did.

They didn't lose any marines so they didn't have to rebuild! It's a perfect plan!

DarkWind wrote:I see a lot of the hate comes down to the fluff. Maybe I'm wrong here I'm not as up on the fluff as many others, but weren't the Ultramaries the chapter who took on the soul responsibility of defending the Imperium while the other Chapters rebuilt them selves after the Horus Heresy?

I think they were busy on a wild goose chase.

Or sitting on their own pocket empire, waiting to see who won...

Guilliman was a coward, but a smart con man

DarkWind wrote:I see a lot of the hate comes down to the fluff. Maybe I'm wrong here I'm not as up on the fluff as many others, but weren't the Ultramaries the chapter who took on the soul responsibility of defending the Imperium while the other Chapters rebuilt them selves after the Horus Heresy?

Seeing they were the one chapter conveniently duped and not heavily involved in the heresy... Boy am I glad the Ultramarines were intact and unscathed by the imperium-wide apocalypse...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
My problem is the Matt Ward-ism of "everyone hopes to be an Ultramarine" and then all the fluff leaves me with the impression that.

1) They are idiots who seem to be easily fooled.
2) They are megalomaniacs "Do it our way or else..."

If you have seen the pseudo commercials from Starship Trooper the movie, picture an Ultra-smurf instead of a light infantryman. There is the propaganda "Everyone hopes to be an Ultramarine" and then there is the fact - Every kind of marine is a beast in combat but the Ultras are just one flavor of pain.

Ascalam wrote:Or sitting on their own pocket empire, waiting to see who won...

Guilliman was a coward, but a smart con man

He was a politician and shrewd business man; why put all your eggs in the one basket when you can appear to be doing an important service and be conserving your strength to side with the victors: smart move.

Unfortuneatley the name Matt Ward seems to instantly be targeted, it's just because he can't write fluff for feth

MrMoustaffa wrote:Hello, your spiritual liege would like to welcome you to the illustrious and invincible Ultramarines! Where you always win in the fluff and everyone hate-er I mean loves you. Don't mind them, they're just upset that Rowboat Girlyman will never be their spiritual liege, and therefore, they will never be Ultramarines! And that will always be their shame!

I demand that this be the first passage of the new C:SM codex.

Not everyone hates on the Ultramarines...

Too bad that nid invasion didnt wipe them out.....

Ultramarines are hated because they are called ULTRA meaning even better than normal.... not to mention they are so oversaturated with fluff and imagery that most people shy away from the smurfs because they are too GW.

Its bad enough that new players flock to play marines, its even worse they play Ultramarines =]

to me they are boring. i dont like the blue. black temps are also boring. grey knights - boring, too much metallic.
the goodytwoshoes high and mighty personality of these chapters adds to my boredom factor.

Ultramarines are to perfect. They are portrayed as the perfect chapter without faults. And that almost all Ultramarines are boring as feth. Just look at Captain Titus and Uriel. Boring souless mommies boys.

MrMoustaffa wrote:Hello, your spiritual liege would like to welcome you to the illustrious and invincible Ultramarines! Where you always win in the fluff and everyone hate-er I mean loves you. Don't mind them, they're just upset that Rowboat Girlyman will never be their spiritual liege, and therefore, they will never be Ultramarines! And that will always be their shame!

All joking aside, Ultramarines kind of represent the overdone glory boys of the Space Marines, and when most people consider all the Space Marines to be overdone glory boys by default, it results in them getting a lot of hate. I also believe it had something to do with the current space marine codex, where Matt Ward (your spiritual liege, make sure to put pictures of him on all your banners so you can make lots of friends! ) basically said that the Ultramarines were the greatest chapter of all time, and that all other chapters wished they were as good as the Ultramarines. I think he also said something along the lines that all chapters that aren't Space Wolves, Templars, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels, follow the Codex Astartes (Written by Roboutte Guillman or something like that, in game spiritual liege) to the letter in an attempt to mirror the perfection of the Ultramarines. However, they're doomed to fail, for they will never be Ultramarines...

I've heard that the older fluff for them was actually pretty cool, where the idea that the Codex Astartes was their greatest strength as well as their greatest weakness was explored. Yes, the Codex Astartes made them extremely prepared for any normal foe, but they were left helpless fighting an unknown enemy or situation. I think they lost their entire 1st company when their home planet was assaulted by the Tyranids specifically because they refused to break the teaching of the codex. Then when a captain suggested adding an amendment that included techniques for fighting the bugs, he was reprimanded for daring to suggest the codex was flawed! If GW played this up more I would actually really like this chapter, as then it would have a lot more depth to it than most of the other ones, and could lead to some really awesome fluff. However, most of today's fluff goes along the lines of "Ultramarines get sent to deal with a threat that's killed about 3 billion guardsmen with ease. Ultramarines sends 10 marines. They kill the entire enemy invasion without suffering a scratch. All hail our spiritual liege. The End." And thats why you get all the hate. However, if you do a cool job with your army, and don't beat people over the head with your fluff that basically says you've beaten the entire galaxy 10 times over, I dont think you'll have any problems. It's your army, you could paint them pink and put hello kitty heads on them for all I care. You're playing a game with plastic army men, have fun with it!

Also, they were Matt Ward's favored child for a while, and anything that has come into contact with Matt Ward tends to receive undying hate from the 40k community.

/thread.

Zweischneid's answer painfully echoes the (tongue-in-cheek mind you) "everyone is angsty and insecure and jealous because they know they will never be as good as Ultramarines" thing, but nobody has anything against ultrasmurf players. The army is to some extent associated with new players and they are, if I may say so, not exactly the choice to add diversity to your local gaming environment.
If you couldn't care less, you are free to play an army with an awesome Ancient Roma theme, and who's going to blame you for loving it ? Not me.

Zweischneid wrote:They call it the Nerd Hierarchy in other places.

By ridiculing and looking down on a hobby aspect virtually identical to their own, those deep-down uncomfortable with their hobby, too immature to face up to it and admit it to their peers and friends, can feel "more mature" about themselves and their time in the hobby by the self-delusion of collecting the "superior" plastic toys and reading the "superior" plastic-toy-background-fluff.

Umm, you're aware that what you're doing right now is part of the Nerd Hierarchy. "Phh, the commoners who hate Ultramarines are far below me in their delusion state. I am far more mature than them."

Now, my opinion is that people hate Ultramarines for many different reasons.

1. Fluff that's too over the top for Warhammer 40k.
2. Fluff that's too heroic and upbeat for Warhammer 40k.
3. The Nerd Hierarchy Zweischneid described (that's quite the username).
4. Band wagon people.
5. Jealousy of the army's attention.

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Ultramarines are to perfect. They are portrayed as the perfect chapter without faults. And that almost all Ultramarines are boring as feth. Just look at Captain Titus and Uriel. Boring souless mommies boys.

if it doesnt have a hint of evil thrown in i find i have no interest.

blood angels have blood red armour, astorath the grim, death company. gets the thumbs up from me.

dark angels. i like the robes. etc

Just enjoy your choice Darkwind, it doesn't matter what you go with in the end, there will always be people who don't like it. The best coping strategy is just to enjoy smiting 'thier' armies even more...

That's what I do and its never let me down! Except when my fourth company has to fight against the second company...that irks me a bit!

Warrior Squirrel wrote:Ultramarines are to perfect. They are portrayed as the perfect chapter without faults. And that almost all Ultramarines are boring as feth. Just look at Captain Titus and Uriel. Boring souless mommies boys.

Maybe this is my inner child pulling my head gravy around, but that's precisely what I like about them. I want my futuristic and perfect space men to be perfect. I don't want them to have flaws, I don't want them to be wolves in armour, or vampires. The shades-of-grey imperfections are for the Inquisition. At least in my mind. I collect Ultramarines for that reason, religious nutters al a BT, but civilised.

I hate all marines, every flavor, angry, robed, spikey, smurf, shiny, wolf, and vampire. Theyre boring. Superpowered warriors in super strong armor with rocket launcher guns. Yawn. Give me a story about a guardsman and his trusty lasgun over any marine.

Oblivious is right SM are truly the worlds most boring armies... The suits look dull, they are boring as hell to paint etc...

The difference between fast attack, elites, heavy support marines is the helmet is a different colour etc.... Whoopie doo.

Terminators are just FAT Marines nothing interesting at all....

Land raiders are just big rhinos and razorbacks are just rhinos with a gun on top etc.....

The whole SM breed is dull....

I might be biased though since I play only Xenos =]

Milisim wrote:Oblivious is right SM are truly the worlds most boring armies... The suits look dull, they are boring as hell to paint etc...

The difference between fast attack, elites, heavy support marines is the helmet is a different colour etc.... Whoopie doo.

Terminators are just FAT Marines nothing interesting at all....

Land raiders are just big rhinos and razorbacks are just rhinos with a gun on top etc.....

The whole SM breed is dull....

I might be biased though since I play only Xenos =]

Thanks, I'll go throw away my Crimson Fists company, Space Wolves, Dark Angels, and Chaos Marines. Thanks for showing me the error of my ways!

So outside of opinions taken to awful heights in this thread, I'll get on topic. Ultramarines are "hated" because they're on the box art, and have been since the mid-late nineties. They're the most vanilla Space Marine chapter, and are seen as the posterboys, as so far as to literally be on the posters. There's this stigma that only noobs play them and paint their Marines that way, but precious few players actually paint their Marines as Ultramarines. It's an attractive scheme and can look wonderful in the hands of a good painter.

I hear SW are selling well on EBAY... You could try that first =]

Milisim wrote:Oblivious is right SM are truly the worlds most boring armies... The suits look dull, they are boring as hell to paint etc...

The difference between fast attack, elites, heavy support marines is the helmet is a different colour etc.... Whoopie doo.

Terminators are just FAT Marines nothing interesting at all....

Land raiders are just big rhinos and razorbacks are just rhinos with a gun on top etc.....

The whole SM breed is dull....

I might be biased though since I play only Xenos =]

Someone sure has a fancy high horse.