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I have no problem at all with them. In fact, I quite like them. As said by Brother SRM, if done well, they can look quite impressive. Plus I find their Roman-theme quite cool.

As it happens, the UM are my 3rd favorite chapter, being beaten only by the IF(2nd) and Sallies(1st).

DarthSpader wrote:

a local saying here: "if you see a 13 yr old boy in a gaming store he's either playing yugioh or ultramarines"

Hey! I don't play yugioh or ultramarines! In fact I have 8 or 9 armies none of which are smurfs. But then again I'm not your typical 13 year old wargamer.

Anyway on topic: I don't mind the smurfs at all. In fact they are quite cool pre-heresy. other then that though I'm not that big of a fan of ultramarines.

Milisim wrote:Oblivious is right SM are truly the worlds most boring armies... The suits look dull, they are boring as hell to paint etc...

The difference between fast attack, elites, heavy support marines is the helmet is a different colour etc.... Whoopie doo.

Terminators are just FAT Marines nothing interesting at all....

Land raiders are just big rhinos and razorbacks are just rhinos with a gun on top etc.....

The whole SM breed is dull....

I might be biased though since I play only Xenos =]

I was referring to the fluff. Its boring to read about near invincible marines slaying all that oppose them. And hearing how heroic and brave they are. Its more interesting to read about human guardsman fighting the same threat and beating them dispite being mere humans.

One word. Superman. He's the poster boy for DC , they're GW's. He's the boy scout with all the powers and only 1 weakness that he can overcome just cause. They have no defining characteristics, never fail, and just seem to be incorruptible. No depth, no character, no struggle. It's generally the fluff people hate. That's why I play SW. They're like the Batman of 40k. But if it's an army you like, make them your own. Give them character. And crush the haters.

Smurfs arent all that hated anymore and it seems everyone has their share of haters. I mean look at tau or gk threads. lol Theres hate everywhere. It's what unites people. If its not an army its an author or gw themselves. Find a wargamer who likes everyone and thats more shocking then someone who hates an armye etc.

Everyone as in armies?
Because I don't hate any armies. Some are not my style, but I do not hate any.

I have found (as I have said on our show) that people say Ultramarines are everywhere - but at least in our community (which is quite large for 40k around here) you just DON'T see them very often.

That was one of the main reasons I decided to pick them up! A well painted Ultramarine Army is really a beautiful thing to look at.

I've always seen it as the old 'it's cool to hate things that are popular'. Once it's popular, it's gone mainstream. It's not worthy of praise anymore.

Ultra Marines. I think people hate on them because they are seen as the cheese of all cheeses. My first army. I chose them because I like to be hated for nerdy reasons. Just kidding. It's a great army to play. The fact that their fluff states best of the best, has always made me not want to loose with them.

They bore alot of people. Also, what they did in the Horrus Heresy was pretty bad.

Milisim wrote:Too bad that nid invasion didnt wipe them out.....

Ultramarines are hated because they are called ULTRA meaning even better than normal.... not to mention they are so oversaturated with fluff and imagery that most people shy away from the smurfs because they are too GW.

Its bad enough that new players flock to play marines, its even worse they play Ultramarines =]

Ultramarine means overseas

DarkWind wrote:This is something I have always wondered. Since I first started the game I have always wanted to field a Ultramarine army, but due to peoples personal opinion and my pathetic need to be accepted by everyone I never touched them. Now I'm finally over that I'm going forward to build a Ultramarine army.

So now to my question... Why do people hate them so?

Several reasons:

-They are stupidly overpowered and most Space Marine fluff is going toward them, totally ignoring other Chapters and their battles.
-They miss some of the most important events in the galaxy because their empire is situated on the other side of the galaxy ( Vandire's war, Armageddon War, Black Crusades, Badab War... )
-Their major characters are OP as hell ( Calgar being able to beat Avatar of Khaine in close combat with one punch and Varro Tigurius rumored to be able to tap to Hive Mind ).
-They are always taking credit after winning battle, especially from Imperial Guard.
-The most important reason why they are hated is breaking down Legions into Chapters. Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and others would never forget them doing that.
-In most resent times they are hated because of Matt Ward and his: "They are so awesome that every other Marine in the galaxy want's to be Ultramarine".

Brother Coa wrote:

-They are stupidly overpowered and most Space Marine fluff is going toward them, totally ignoring other Chapters and their battles.

Hrmpf, the current book is somewhat ultramarinecentric ( not suprising if you consider that they are the archetypical codex adherent chapter ) true but if you wish to complain about "overpowered" chapters than look no further than the spacewolves, blood angels and grey knights books. Compared to them the ultramarines fluff is tame.

Brother Coa wrote:
-They miss some of the most important events in the galaxy because their empire is situated on the other side of the galaxy ( Vandire's war, Armageddon War, Black Crusades, Badab War... )

Sure they missed some wars, just like every single chapter in existance, who cares? Besides that, the Ultramarines participate in the current black crusade, they are heavily engaged against the Tau, help(ed) to contain the Orkempire of Charadon, fought in the second war for Armageddon and play a considerable role in the Tyranic wars.

Brother Coa wrote:
-Their major characters are OP as hell ( Calgar being able to beat Avatar of Khaine in close combat with one punch and Varro Tigurius rumored to be able to tap to Hive Mind ).

Draigo, Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Maugan Ra, Creed, Gaunt's Sues...erm, Ghosts...
Stupidly powerful characters are nothing that only affects the Ultramarines.

Brother Coa wrote:
-They are always taking credit after winning battle, especially from Imperial Guard.

Oh do they? Please point me to some fluff where they actualy do. It is the current writingstyle which tends to attribute victories chiefly to the spacemarines but that is not a problem of the Ultramarines themselfs.

Brother Coa wrote:
-The most important reason why they are hated is breaking down Legions into Chapters. Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and others would never forget them doing that.

The Spacesues do whatever the hell they want and the Imperial Fists have fully embraced the Codex Astartes. There is no bad blood whatsoever between the two chapters regarding the codex.

Brother Coa wrote:
-In most resent times they are hated because of Matt Ward and his: "They are so awesome that every other Marine in the galaxy want's to be Ultramarine".

That is the only vallid point i give you. Ward went a bit overboard. Of course the same can be observed in Kelly's Spacesues book or the Ward's other two marine books.

LoneLictor wrote:
Umm, you're aware that what you're doing right now is part of the Nerd Hierarchy. "Phh, the commoners who hate Ultramarines are far below me in their delusion state. I am far more mature than them."

Quite the opposite. I am likely even "lower" on the scale for being even more jaded in many respects. But the 12-year old diving into the hobby and his Ultramarines with unspoilt passion, excitement and exuberance is at the top of any and all hierarchies if there ever were one. If you hate them, you likely hate that very spark of initial passion that first brought you yourself into the hobby and that you try to recapture in some way as you pick up your mini, dice or paintbrush.

And in either case, I did not claim that self-reflection is to automatically overcome your flaws. But it is an important first step.

KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

-They are stupidly overpowered and most Space Marine fluff is going toward them, totally ignoring other Chapters and their battles.

Hrmpf, the current book is somewhat ultramarinecentric ( not suprising if you consider that they are the archetypical codex adherent chapter ) true but if you wish to complain about "overpowered" chapters than look no further than the spacewolves, blood angels and grey knights books. Compared to them the ultramarines fluff is tame.

Overpowered in a sense that they rarely lose to some opponent. Their own codex stated that any Marine from Ultramarines Legion have obligation to come and aid Calgar in case of emergency. That means that Calgar in any given moment can take command of around 600.000 Marines all over the galaxy. And furthermore, overpowered in fact that they can do amazing thing with ease and within seconds that others need special troops and minutes. You are not agreeing that most Space Marine fluff is going toward them just see first 40k movie - "Ultramarines - the gratest of them all".

Brother Coa wrote:
-They miss some of the most important events in the galaxy because their empire is situated on the other side of the galaxy ( Vandire's war, Armageddon War, Black Crusades, Badab War... )

Sure they missed some wars, just like every single chapter in existance, who cares? Besides that, the Ultramarines participate in the current black crusade, they are heavily engaged against the Tau, help(ed) to contain the Orkempire of Charadon, fought in the second war for Armageddon and play a considerable role in the Tyranic wars.

Of course, who cares about Vandire and Abaddon, they are after all minor characters in Imperial history.... In the current black Crusade they send undermanned company, Tau threat is minor and not even significant, they didn't fought in 1'st and second war witch were most important, in Badab war witch was mini Horus heresy, they didn't participate during the The Beheading, they didn't participate in Sabbat Worlds Crusade, at the battle of Rynn's World... The only notable fighting being Orkempire of Charadon and Tyranic Wars.
Black Tempalrs are doing a hell more fighting and crusading then Ultramarines yet Ultramarines get all the glory.

Brother Coa wrote:
-Their major characters are OP as hell ( Calgar being able to beat Avatar of Khaine in close combat with one punch and Varro Tigurius rumored to be able to tap to Hive Mind ).

Draigo, Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Maugan Ra, Creed, Gaunt's Sues...erm, Ghosts...
Stupidly powerful characters are nothing that only affects the Ultramarines.

You are right about that, but Ultras are chapter with most OP characters in the Imperium. Calgar, Telon, Cato, Tigrius, Varnus...

Brother Coa wrote:
-They are always taking credit after winning battle, especially from Imperial Guard.

Oh do they? Please point me to some fluff where they actualy do. It is the current writingstyle which tends to attribute victories chiefly to the spacemarines but that is not a problem of the Ultramarines themselves.

Macragge PDF, Ultramrines get all the credit from that battle while PDF get only " they were just helping us out" badge. There is not even mention of PDF defending planet beside helping Ultramarines and dying while they retreat. Adn they die all together at northern fortress. There are various other examples, but in more recent time credits were also given to Guard Regiments ( like Sturn's 412 Cadian ).

Brother Coa wrote:
-The most important reason why they are hated is breaking down Legions into Chapters. Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and others would never forget them doing that.

The Spacesues do whatever the hell they want and the Imperial Fists have fully embraced the Codex Astartes. There is no bad blood whatsoever between the two chapters regarding the codex.

No bad blood? Tell that to Raven Guard, Black Templars and Space Wolves who use Codex Astartes as toilet paper. And this is the 1'st example whiel people hate Ultramarines. Answer is always the same: "They screwup the Imperium by splitting the Legions into Chapters, and doing all that after being late for the final battle." It seems people mind Ultramarines take over of the Imperium after Emperor's wounding.

Brother Coa wrote:
-In most resent times they are hated because of Matt Ward and his: "They are so awesome that every other Marine in the galaxy want's to be Ultramarine".

That is the only vallid point i give you. Ward went a bit overboard. Of course the same can be observed in Kelly's Spacesues book or the Ward's other two marine books.

Personally, I like the Ultras. I understand they were pretty hyped over the past years due to being the "poster boys" of GW, as has already been mentioned, and that it's this that made some people dislike them. Me, I have to appreciate that they are still the "core" of what a Space Marine Chapter, as per my own perception, should look like. Not too independent and speshul like the almighty Space Wolves and their constant "get out of jail free" card (that lets them avoid getting excommunicated in spite of constantly fething around with every Imperial institution in existence and sporting one of the most corrupted geneseeds ever), but at the same time not too whacky like the Black Templars and their stance on psykers (which I see as one of the major themes of the Ecclesiarchy). The strict Codex-adherence and apparent self-commitment to the Imperial cause are flaws enough for me, even though some people may not perceive them as such - but it's certainly better than "pseudo flaws" like geneseed deviations only meant to make a Chapter look "even cooler" rather than posing a true obstruction.

People who think the Ultras' fluff is too much also need to take a look at the SW and GK codices.

The one and only thing I didn't really appreciate was certain 5E design changes on their minis, as I think the Space Marines in general are slowly creeping more and more onto the pseudo-religious style I perceive as "reserved" for SoB and Ecclesiarchy miniatures.

Fun fact, even though I never actually played them as an army, my very first 40k miniatures ever was a squad of Tactical Marines painted in Ultramarine colours.

DarthSpader wrote:i think mainly it has to do with GW selecting the ultrasmurfs as the poster boy for the hobby.

^This.

The only reason I don't like them is because they are everywhere. On boxes, posters, starter kits...It's not so much the Ultrasmurfs fault, it's just my longing to break away from the norm.

I always thought ultramarine hate was a running joke. You hated ultramarines because 'it was the cool thing to do' but never seriously cared. Then, i met my first group of meme spouting neckbeards, and I realized a lot of the hate they get on the internet was real. Fortunately, it seems limited to meme spouting neckbeards who visit 4chan, so if you arent one of them, youve got the high road in real life.

KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
-Their major characters are OP as hell ( Calgar being able to beat Avatar of Khaine in close combat with one punch and Varro Tigurius rumored to be able to tap to Hive Mind ).

Draigo, Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Maugan Ra, Creed, Gaunt's Sues...erm, Ghosts...
Stupidly powerful characters are nothing that only affects the Ultramarines.

While I agree that everyone has stupidly overpowered and overdone stuff, I must point out that the Phoenix Lords are neither mortal nor invincible. Most of them have died tens, if not hundreds, of times.

TheFatElf wrote:..., it's just my longing to break away from the norm.

This.

So many beautiful and unique snowflakes in this hobby. Tyler Durden's rolling in his grave.

The major reason would be, as others have said, the fluff. It's hard to stay interesting when you are apparently the paragon of marines, and even harder with the sheer volume of fluff given to them. And besides that, in the current codex they have like five special characters. Too many.

Also, their name is a double pun. Bad.

Maze wrote: That's why I play SW. They're like the Batman of 40k.

Durza wrote:The major reason would be, as others have said, the fluff. It's hard to stay interesting when you are apparently the paragon of marines, and even harder with the sheer volume of fluff given to them. And besides that, in the current codex they have like five special characters. Too many.

Also, their name is a double pun. Bad.

Maze wrote: That's why I play SW. They're like the Batman of 40k.

Spoiler:

Why do you say space wolves but have a picture of a night lord?



I think ultramarines are disliked for their fluff and uninterestingness. Sure, a well painted ultramarine force can look good, but its really not that interesting.

Ascalam wrote:Or sitting on their own pocket empire, waiting to see who won...

Guilliman was a coward, but a smart con man

Know No Fear puts’ this theory to rest I’m pleased to say. The Ultramarines lost practically their entire fleet to Calth, plus the Word Bearers created warp storms around Ultramar, as detailed in the novel. Guilliman is pretty much stuck in Ultramar, although not really his fault.

KingDeath wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:

-They are stupidly overpowered and most Space Marine fluff is going toward them, totally ignoring other Chapters and their battles.

Hrmpf, the current book is somewhat ultramarinecentric ( not suprising if you consider that they are the archetypical codex adherent chapter ) true but if you wish to complain about "overpowered" chapters than look no further than the spacewolves, blood angels and grey knights books. Compared to them the ultramarines fluff is tame.

Brother Coa wrote:
-They miss some of the most important events in the galaxy because their empire is situated on the other side of the galaxy ( Vandire's war, Armageddon War, Black Crusades, Badab War... )

Sure they missed some wars, just like every single chapter in existance, who cares? Besides that, the Ultramarines participate in the current black crusade, they are heavily engaged against the Tau, help(ed) to contain the Orkempire of Charadon, fought in the second war for Armageddon and play a considerable role in the Tyranic wars.

Brother Coa wrote:
-Their major characters are OP as hell ( Calgar being able to beat Avatar of Khaine in close combat with one punch and Varro Tigurius rumored to be able to tap to Hive Mind ).

Draigo, Dante, Mephiston, Lysander, Maugan Ra, Creed, Gaunt's Sues...erm, Ghosts...
Stupidly powerful characters are nothing that only affects the Ultramarines.

Brother Coa wrote:
-They are always taking credit after winning battle, especially from Imperial Guard.

Oh do they? Please point me to some fluff where they actualy do. It is the current writingstyle which tends to attribute victories chiefly to the spacemarines but that is not a problem of the Ultramarines themselfs.

Brother Coa wrote:
-The most important reason why they are hated is breaking down Legions into Chapters. Space Wolves, Imperial Fists and others would never forget them doing that.

The Spacesues do whatever the hell they want and the Imperial Fists have fully embraced the Codex Astartes. There is no bad blood whatsoever between the two chapters regarding the codex.

Brother Coa wrote:
-In most resent times they are hated because of Matt Ward and his: "They are so awesome that every other Marine in the galaxy want's to be Ultramarine".

That is the only vallid point i give you. Ward went a bit overboard. Of course the same can be observed in Kelly's Spacesues book or the Ward's other two marine books.

I'm going to have to agree with just about everything KingDeath said here. The only thing I would add to this is that if their IC's are so overpowered... why, when I unveiled my list on multiple forums, was the first thing someone said was "I don't see Vulkan in this list. You should add him."

If you are speaking from a pure fluff standpoint - then certainly there are a lot of stories that focus on the greatness of some Ultramarine Characters. But as was just pointed out (by KingDeath) there are quite a few other extraordinary tales of heroism from other chapters as well. I think others have mentioned Space Wolves, Grey Knights, Blood Angels... each of these has given extraordinary treatment to their IC's as well. So I don't see this as a valid reason that people hate Ultramarines.

I am certain it has more to do with them being placed front and center by GW. The last two beginner boxed sets starred Ultramarines as well. So it is probably a time for a "passing of the torch" and if we are to believe current rumors. It will be Dark Angels next. But that's ok - people already hate them too!

It's like football teams. Some people love the 49ers. Others hate them, and why? Who the Hell knows...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gree wrote:

Ascalam wrote:Or sitting on their own pocket empire, waiting to see who won...

Guilliman was a coward, but a smart con man

Know No Fear puts’ this theory to rest I’m pleased to say. The Ultramarines lost practically their entire fleet to Calth, plus the Word Bearers created warp storms around Ultramar, as detailed in the novel. Guilliman is pretty much stuck in Ultramar, although not really his fault.

Know No Fear - if you don't like Ultramarines when you start this book - you will be hard pressed to NOT Like them when you finish it. Man this was a great novel.

Brother Coa wrote:
In the current black Crusade they send undermanned company,

They sent a full company to my recollection.

Brother Coa wrote:
Tau threat is minor and not even significant, they didn't fought in 1'st and second war witch were most important,

The Ultramarines fought in the second war for Armageddon.

Brother Coa wrote:
, in Badab war witch was mini Horus heresy,

Only the Salamanders paritcpated in that event.

Brother Coa wrote:
they didn't participate during the The Beheading, they didn't participate in Sabbat Worlds Crusade, at the battle of Rynn's World... The only notable fighting being Orkempire of Charadon and Tyranic Wars.

Most of those wars only had a couple of chapters involved. Are you going to start blaming them as well?

Brother Coa wrote:
Black Tempalrs are doing a hell more fighting and crusading then Ultramarines yet Ultramarines get all the glory.

Do you have proof that they do a hell of a lot more fighting?

Do you have any sources to back up your claims that the Ultramarines had fewer engagements than some other Chapters? Because I'll have you know that I can produce sources that suggest the opposite.


"Since the ancient times of the Great Crusade, the Ultramarines have fought at the forefront of the Emperor's armies. (...) Tales of their victories are told from their home world, Macragge, to the sacred halls of Terra. Whenever the enemies of Mankind threaten the Imperium, the Ultramarines stand ready to fight them."(Index Astartes Ultramarines, Introduction)


Obviously you can cite important battles where the Ultramarines didn't participate, but I think the reasons for why GW isn't including one particular Chapter in every campaign do not have to be discussed. But the notion that the Ultramarines are somehow confined to their home world, or a smaller region of space, and aren't participating in as many notable battles as many other Chapters is just completely baseless.

Brother Coa wrote:
Macragge PDF, Ultramrines get all the credit from that battle while PDF get only " they were just helping us out" badge. There is not even mention of PDF defending planet beside helping Ultramarines and dying while they retreat. Adn they die all together at northern fortress. There are various other examples, but in more recent time credits were also given to Guard Regiments ( like Sturn's 412 Cadian ).

Again, do you have any actual proof?

Brother Coa wrote:
No bad blood? Tell that to Raven Guard, Black Templars and Space Wolves who use Codex Astartes as toilet paper.

Actually the Raven Guard are Codex adherent. As noted in their Index Astartes article.

Brother Coa wrote:
. And this is the 1'st example whiel people hate Ultramarines. Answer is always the same: "They screwup the Imperium by splitting the Legions into Chapters, and doing all that after being late for the final battle." It seems people mind Ultramarines take over of the Imperium after Emperor's wounding.

Which is a good thing that’s not what’s described in the actual background.

From the Second Edition Codex Ultramarines.

"By the end of the Horus Heresy the galaxy was in turmoil once more. The armies of the Imperium were destroyed or scattered. Thousands of spacecraft had been lost in the conflict. Worse of all, the Emperor was gone. Though not actually dead he was lost to the living world and his spirit cast into the vortex of Chaos. The guidance which the Emperor had given the Imperium for hundreds of years was suddenly absent. Such was the power and influence of the Emperor that it was impossible to imagine a single successor inheriting his mantle. For a while it seemed as if the Imperium would surely break apart: that the Cult Mechanicus and the workshops of Mars would divorce themselves from the Imperium, that Primarchs and Space Marines would establish their own empires in the depths of space.
What happened next is the tribute to the skill and foresight of a very few powerful men, not least to the Ultramarines' Primarch Roboute Guilliman. A council was formed of the twelve most powerful individuals in the Imperium. They called themselves the High Lords of Terra, and their self-proclaimed role was to rule the Imperium on behalf of the Emperor. (...)
The High Lords established the divisions of the Imperium that remain familiar to this day. It was they who formalised the title of Adeptus which is used by all who are servants of the Emperor. The first High Lords laid the structure by which the Adeptus Terra operates, and described the feudal responsibilities and duties of planetary Lords. One of the most important of their accomplishments was the reorganisation of the Imperium's armies. This task was undertaken almost singlehandedly by the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, who quickly and efficiently codified the structure of the Imperial Guard, the fleet and the Space Marines."

The Imperium was in danger of breaking apart, since the different factions were not focused by the leadership of the Emperor. The Cult Mechanicus threatened to secede, and the Primarchs were about to establish individual realms with their Legions. What happened then is credited to the foresight of a few powerful individuals, who created the first High Lords of Terra. They managed to formulate a mutually agreed vision for a future of the Imperium, and they then established the institutions of the Imnperium as exist to this day. one of their greatest accomplishments was the reorganization of the imperial armed forces. This task was undertaken almost singlehandedly by Roboute Guilliman, who according to the legends of the Ultramarines was one of the first High Lords.

From that fluff it seems that the formation of the High Lords was an urgent necessity, and was what saved the Imperium from breaking apart entirely.

The Primarchs were largely gone, because there now was a massive new threat in the form of the Chaos Legions, because the Emperor was gone, because the Imperium was almost completely destroyed, because the military forces were down to a fraction of it's strength during the Great Crusade, and because the Aliens and Heretics rose up all over the galaxy to attack the wounded Imperium. The background is pretty unambiguous in that the Imperium and the Space Marines could not just have dusted off and rebuilt the Legions and then continued as if nothing had happened. Things would never be the same again, and the Imperium would have fallen, had the High Lords not taken controll and consolidated the Imperial forces and established a structure that would allow the Imperium to function without the Emperor.

Gree wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
In the current black Crusade they send undermanned company,

They sent a full company to my recollection.

Brother Coa wrote:
Tau threat is minor and not even significant, they didn't fought in 1'st and second war witch were most important,

The Ultramarines fought in the second war for Armageddon.

Brother Coa wrote:
, in Badab war witch was mini Horus heresy,

Only the Salamanders paritcpated in that event.

Brother Coa wrote:
they didn't participate during the The Beheading, they didn't participate in Sabbat Worlds Crusade, at the battle of Rynn's World... The only notable fighting being Orkempire of Charadon and Tyranic Wars.

Most of those wars only had a couple of chapters involved. Are you going to start blaming them as well?

Brother Coa wrote:
Black Tempalrs are doing a hell more fighting and crusading then Ultramarines yet Ultramarines get all the glory.

Do you have proof that they do a hell of a lot more fighting?

Do you have any sources to back up your claims that the Ultramarines had fewer engagements than some other Chapters? Because I'll have you know that I can produce sources that suggest the opposite.


"Since the ancient times of the Great Crusade, the Ultramarines have fought at the forefront of the Emperor's armies. (...) Tales of their victories are told from their home world, Macragge, to the sacred halls of Terra. Whenever the enemies of Mankind threaten the Imperium, the Ultramarines stand ready to fight them."(Index Astartes Ultramarines, Introduction)


Obviously you can cite important battles where the Ultramarines didn't participate, but I think the reasons for why GW isn't including one particular Chapter in every campaign do not have to be discussed. But the notion that the Ultramarines are somehow confined to their home world, or a smaller region of space, and aren't participating in as many notable battles as many other Chapters is just completely baseless.

Brother Coa wrote:
Macragge PDF, Ultramrines get all the credit from that battle while PDF get only " they were just helping us out" badge. There is not even mention of PDF defending planet beside helping Ultramarines and dying while they retreat. Adn they die all together at northern fortress. There are various other examples, but in more recent time credits were also given to Guard Regiments ( like Sturn's 412 Cadian ).

Again, do you have any actual proof?

Brother Coa wrote:
No bad blood? Tell that to Raven Guard, Black Templars and Space Wolves who use Codex Astartes as toilet paper.

Actually the Raven Guard are Codex adherent. As noted in their Index Astartes article.

Brother Coa wrote:
. And this is the 1'st example whiel people hate Ultramarines. Answer is always the same: "They screwup the Imperium by splitting the Legions into Chapters, and doing all that after being late for the final battle." It seems people mind Ultramarines take over of the Imperium after Emperor's wounding.

Which is a good thing that’s not what’s described in the actual background.

From the Second Edition Codex Ultramarines.

"By the end of the Horus Heresy the galaxy was in turmoil once more. The armies of the Imperium were destroyed or scattered. Thousands of spacecraft had been lost in the conflict. Worse of all, the Emperor was gone. Though not actually dead he was lost to the living world and his spirit cast into the vortex of Chaos. The guidance which the Emperor had given the Imperium for hundreds of years was suddenly absent. Such was the power and influence of the Emperor that it was impossible to imagine a single successor inheriting his mantle. For a while it seemed as if the Imperium would surely break apart: that the Cult Mechanicus and the workshops of Mars would divorce themselves from the Imperium, that Primarchs and Space Marines would establish their own empires in the depths of space.
What happened next is the tribute to the skill and foresight of a very few powerful men, not least to the Ultramarines' Primarch Roboute Guilliman. A council was formed of the twelve most powerful individuals in the Imperium. They called themselves the High Lords of Terra, and their self-proclaimed role was to rule the Imperium on behalf of the Emperor. (...)
The High Lords established the divisions of the Imperium that remain familiar to this day. It was they who formalised the title of Adeptus which is used by all who are servants of the Emperor. The first High Lords laid the structure by which the Adeptus Terra operates, and described the feudal responsibilities and duties of planetary Lords. One of the most important of their accomplishments was the reorganisation of the Imperium's armies. This task was undertaken almost singlehandedly by the Primarch Roboute Guilliman, who quickly and efficiently codified the structure of the Imperial Guard, the fleet and the Space Marines."

The Imperium was in danger of breaking apart, since the different factions were not focused by the leadership of the Emperor. The Cult Mechanicus threatened to secede, and the Primarchs were about to establish individual realms with their Legions. What happened then is credited to the foresight of a few powerful individuals, who created the first High Lords of Terra. They managed to formulate a mutually agreed vision for a future of the Imperium, and they then established the institutions of the Imnperium as exist to this day. one of their greatest accomplishments was the reorganization of the imperial armed forces. This task was undertaken almost singlehandedly by Roboute Guilliman, who according to the legends of the Ultramarines was one of the first High Lords.

From that fluff it seems that the formation of the High Lords was an urgent necessity, and was what saved the Imperium from breaking apart entirely.

Great work kid...maybe you want to explain to me why people hate Ultramariens then?

Gree wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
they didn't participate during the The Beheading, they didn't participate in Sabbat Worlds Crusade, at the battle of Rynn's World... The only notable fighting being Orkempire of Charadon and Tyranic Wars.

Most of those wars only had a couple of chapters involved. Are you going to start blaming them as well?

Could you imagine the outcry if they actually DID participate in EVERY conflict described by GW? "Oh man here come the Ultramarines AGAIN.... GW SURE DOES LOVE THEM! I'm so sick of Ultramarines!"

It's a no win situation hahaha

Because people like to hate the posterboy.

Actually while people hated the Ultramarines Pre-Ward I can’t think of any real hatred until Ward publishes his work and started to actively demean other chapters.

Brother Coa wrote: Great work kid...maybe you want to explain to me why people hate Ultramariens then?

It was good work. No need to get personal about it. And several people have already put forth theories as to why the Ultramarines, specifically are "hated". I, for one, am convinced it has more to do with the marketing of GW than any piece of fluff.

cvtuttle wrote:

Gree wrote:

Brother Coa wrote:
they didn't participate during the The Beheading, they didn't participate in Sabbat Worlds Crusade, at the battle of Rynn's World... The only notable fighting being Orkempire of Charadon and Tyranic Wars.

Most of those wars only had a couple of chapters involved. Are you going to start blaming them as well?

Could you imagine the outcry if they actually DID participate in EVERY conflict described by GW? "Oh man here come the Ultramarines AGAIN.... GW SURE DOES LOVE THEM! I'm so sick of Ultramarines!"

It's a no win situation hahaha

Yeah, there are 1,000 Chapters. Most engagements will only include a hand full of Chapters. Having one single Chapter be part of all of those engagements is statistically not only improbable, but impossible, seeing as many big engagements will be happening at the same time. It is not like most Chapetrs just sit around all day and wait several centuries for something exciting to happen.