Why does everyone hate on the Ultramarines?

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**moom241**

I realize the fluff says they're the best, but I have seen little show of it. I'm no fluff genius, but it seems they are simply sold as "The Best Evar!" and then, when you look at their accomplishments, it's about equal to several of the other founding legions, if not worse.

**LoneLictor**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
LoneLictor wrote:And you're wrong, one group "technically" doesn't have to be best, because "best" is subjective. How do you judge that's best?
Games Workshop told you. There's nothing else to judge. We don't have any quantifiable numbers, so the only evaluation that matters is by the creators of the artistic license.

I mean, sure, you as the fan, are allowed to have a favorite chapter that isn't the Ultramarines. But the Ultramarines are still greater than them. It's just the way it is, and it is futile to rail against this fact. I'm actually fairly sure you don't know the proper definition of strawman, or how it is used in discussion and critique, so we'll give you a pass on your blunder. But if we play along, we can pretend that if I did "hate" a fluff description of the Ultramarines as the worst chapter... But I didn't say that, and neither did Games Workshop. So, it's completely irrelevant. I mean, you could also make me look like a fool if I said the sky was green or that bananas taste best when they are purple, or that the best Bruce Willis movie of all time is Sense and Sensibility. But, i didn't say any of those things, so it's somewhat pointless to bring it up.

Whatever you end up saying, it all comes back to this: Whether or not you like it, the Ultramarines are "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters".

And I wasn't being rude. I was just telling the truth. A lot of people would like to refute one of my points. And you also failed to do so. Pointing those things out isn't rude. They are just true.

No, I didn't fail. You responded to something different than my post.

Here's what I said:

1. Games Workshop shouldn't have said Ultramarines are the best. "Best" is subjective

And your rebuttal was this.

2. Games Workshop said Ultramarines are the best and "best" isn't subjective.

And now I'm saying: Exactly, they are the best. But they shouldn't be. Games Workshop shouldn't say that one Chapter is the best. They don't have to. Its not like the Codex would be worse without it. Do you ever see people buying codexs just to know which Chapter is the best? No, they buy them for actual fluff and for stats.

And "best" is subjective. If you can't understand this, then this debate is impossible. As I showed earlier, they are multiple ways to judge which is the best (but you clipped that out of my quote, of course).

**Veteran Sergeant**

LoneLictor wrote:No, I didn't fail. You responded to something different than my post.

Here's what I said:

1. Games Workshop shouldn't have said Ultramarines are the best. "Best" is subjective

I think The Rock said it best back in his old WWF days.

It doesn't MATTER what you think.

Nobody cares what your opinion is. I, specifically, don't care what you think. I respect your right to think it, but it is entirely irrelevant to what my argument is and the topic at hand. We're dealing in facts here, not opinions. See, where you're failing, is that you're not arguing against my point. You're arguing bananas. I was referring to oranges. You might be talking about fruit, but you're no closer to garnishing a glass of Hefeweizen.

I never said whether or not Games Workshop was right or wrong. That means crap. Who cares if they are right or wrong in the greater contextual arena of philosophy. They wrote it, thus it was so. Like I said: You don't have to like it, but it is, and you'll be far better off if you just accept it.

Anything else you want to argue with me is pointless. I don't care. To me, the Ultramarines being "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" is perfectly acceptable. I'll go on being fans of the other chapters too. Even those poor bastards the Lamenters, who are so far from the greatest it isn't funny.

this debate is impossible.

First smart thing you've said all day. I guess we can bring this to a close then.

**moom241**

I care what he thinks. I care what everyone thinks except that weird old lunch lady.

**Milisim**

The main reason people hate the Ultramarines is because...

Mat Ward LIKES them......

And you can't be a card carrying member of the "Mat Ward Sucks" Posse if you like anything he likes..... even if its pizza!

**Brother SRM**

TauMeth wrote:Asking "Why does everyone hate Ultramarines?" is like asking why Tau players love there army: because there all snipers! I personally haven't encountered a UM hater, so i don't know, but i hear a lot of crap about them on Dakka.

What does that even mean? Ultramarines are snipers? That's not exactly true.

**Inquisitor Ehrenstein**

My personal reason is that I don't really like seeing people play the army that gets featured on the box, most of the time, as it shows very little imagination. What I really hate is when people play the Cadian 8th, since it's such a small part of the IG and requires so little thought to do a whole army off the paint scheme that is shown on the box. The same doesn't bother me with Tau for some reason.

**The Crusader**

Not Wishing to be the straw that breaks the camels back, BUT...

Veteran Sergeant

I don't care how it appears to You, but you are being a bit of a D**k here what with the saying you're not being rude when you quite plainly are, the utter ignorance of everyone elses opinions and such like. Just an observation.

But I digress. Methinks that the ludicrous amount of fluff and characters they get may be a reason. They may be the [sarcasm] greatest [/sarcasm] chapter, burt they're not that good.

**AlmightyWalrus**

Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Anything else you want to argue with me is pointless. I don't care. To me, the Ultramarines being "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" is perfectly acceptable. I'll go on being fans of the other chapters too. Even those poor bastards the Lamenters, who are so far from the greatest it isn't funny.

Define "greatest". For all we know, it could be the fact that the Ultramarines are physically higher than everyone else. Which is the point you've been missing the entire thread.

**Veteran Sergeant**

AlmightyWalrus wrote:
Veteran Sergeant wrote:
Anything else you want to argue with me is pointless. I don't care. To me, the Ultramarines being "the greatest of all Space Marine Chapters" is perfectly acceptable. I'll go on being fans of the other chapters too. Even those poor bastards the Lamenters, who are so far from the greatest it isn't funny.
Define "greatest". For all we know, it could be the fact that the Ultramarines are physically higher than everyone else. Which is the point you've been missing the entire thread.

No, I'm not missing any points.

You're just being a troll.

Yes, I'm now sure that's what GW meant. That Macragge is higher on the galactic plane than any other Chapter's homeworld. God, I fee like such an idiot. Why didn't I think about that before? I'm so embarrassed.

**enfernux**

Thread getting personal again...

**reds8n**

Looking at the last few pages i think we're pretty much done here really.