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Trying to get 40k people into Infinity

I'm sure a lot of you have friends that play 40k and won't even look at other models or other fluff but might have an open mind for rules. I know Infinity is compared a lot to Necromunda and I can see why. That is one way to get some into it by hyping up that. You can have them use their Necromunda figs for a game of Ininity for sure. Unfortunately though, Necromunda doesn't have the variety that Infinity has for guns and armor. So I would suggest the think about an Inquisitor and retinue. Just about any of the factions can do it. Haqqislam can be used for a hard core monodominant because of the religious troops. Or a Mechanicus heavy list using Nomads.

Here's some equivalents to help

Inquisitor = Heavy Infantry, HQ Troop, Elite Troop (Swiss Guard, Aquila, Hac Tao, Hsien, Sin Eater, Janisary,
Mechanicus = Engineer , Hacker
Psycher = Hacker
Veteran Guardsman = Any infantry type (Fusilier, Zanzhi, Kazak)
Storm Trooper = Heavy or medium Infantry (Invincible, Janisary, Djanbazan, Mobile Brigade)
Assassin = Ninja, Snipers, Fiday

If you let them use the Mercenary list then the possibilities are even bigger for a retinue.

By having them look at he rules and by making an army the insidious chaos Infinity will invade their minds and make them radicals! Bwa ha ha ha!

Haha, good ideas! I'm working on organising having an event to convert people to the dark side that is Infinity.

Oh and i'm converting a Necromunda Gang from Infinity models to get people interested.

How do you get people to invest in Infinity ? =P
Aside from my brother, my 40k friends play with my armies.
Even with the argument of : you get a little army ready with 100-150$
They still think it's too much for toy soldiers =(

#1 thing you can do is have them proxy their own models they already own. This is why I do not recommend loaner armies, people get reliant.

if you have them proxy 40k models as infinity model then they can say "hmm that snipe has worked really well for me... and he looks cool... I think I'll pickup the actual model". After a few month half to all of their force is real infinity models.

I have found that people that just go out and buy a 300pt Infinity force right off the bat have a lower sticking rate then those that proxy and work into the game.

Maybe when they see how cool the minis are and how fun the game is.
I'm pretty sure I can influence my brother enough so he gets a couple minis =)
And then maybe the others will follow...let's hope !

Infinity is the Light Side! lol No Grim-Dark here

BD is right. Using proxies is a good start. We have to be subtle with the Light of Infinity!

Just like I suggested they can even use an Inquistor retinue or Necromunda to start out.

One thing to mention too is the FREE rules, and the FREE army builder. If you look at the Infinity site you can also find some FREE fluff.

What I'm sceptic about (can that be used that way in english ?) is that the models they will be using as proxies will be mine. And they will probably think they fit real well haha.

I think I fell into "play 40k and won't even look at other models or other fluff but might have an open mind for rules."

I'm open to try anything (without commitment ) - so endtransmission organised for me to watch his second game, followed by playing my own small skirmish. Realistically, my first introduction to the rules *and* the minis was that night.

I think from there my problem was - where do I go from here? (We didn't really have time to discuss it after the games, and I was still non committal at that point, so not a bad reflection on my hosts)

I mistakenly went to the Corvus Belli site first (ack that site is horrible) before endtransmission set me straight on the "Infinity: the Game" site. Only to be overwhelmed by the factions - there were a *lot* more miniatures than I was expecting, and not being drenched in Infinity background, it was all rather confusing. I made a choice based on the minis I liked the best, and went in search of fluff...

Here was my second mistake - I didn't realise the main fluff is in the rulebooks - which I don't have! (And hadn't planned on getting due to the free rules download...). The videos and mini information is nice, but it's all still quite limited - it's either too high view or too low view...

Still - at least the game mechanics videos made sense after playing the one small skirmish

(I didn't find the rulebook and faction list downloads very helpful either - not that I've given the rulebook download a good read yet, but the formatting seems a bit difficult to follow - again, endtransmission pointed me in the direction of the free army builder, and things have been better from there...)

But I'm committed now... rulebook on the way, starter set and some additional models on their way - just in time for the painting comp hopefully I am looking forward to seeing the models - I think this may be the first time I've seen a non GW line I can appreciate.

But those "equivalents" don't really help for an Ork player

So my advice for me would have been:
1) Play a small intro game with someone else's models (we were playing 5-6 grunts aside - rifles, shotguns, medic, a single flame thrower) - introduces game mechanics and models
2) Get the rule books (mainly for the fluff, but I won't be able to confirm this until I have them!)
3) Browse the "Infinity: the Game" web site for the models. Unless you have followed 2) above - expect to be overwhelmed (as I expect anyone new to 40k would be...) The videos will help too - but not really by themselves...
4) Use the online army builder, and use it to look up rules/weapons/skills in the wiki.

I must say, I admire the effort and enthusiasm going into the Infinity side of things on Dakka - it can only help. It has a long way to go - mainly number of contributors at this point I think (the ground work seems to have been taken care of - well done!) - and I hope to contribute with my fledging force in the very near future...

Apologies for the essay! Hope it helps someone...

Catchya

Von Skyfury wrote:What I'm sceptic about (can that be used that way in english ?) is that the models they will be using as proxies will be mine. And they will probably think they fit real well haha.

Thats a difficult one because they don't have any of their own models. You could maybe get them to bring counters from board games? I'm still working at getting my friends into the hobby but i've noticed that dragging them into Games Workshop stores really helps. Not just that but when you get them inside don't lead them around, follow them and let them take you to the things they are interested in, just provide as much information as they want without overloading them. If there is a model they really like then offer to let them borrow your paint, glue, brushes and tell them how easy it will be to add more models to that one if they want.
If that works then you can't start getting them to proxy the GW models for Infinity.

@Arakasi - That was really good insight there. Here are a few things i noticed too:
The Rulebooks are great but everything is very clunky due to the translation not being perfect. Annoyingly they don't have the miniatures in the books which kind of annoyed me actually, i was hoping to use them as a catalogue.
The Infinity website is sweet but extremely daunting to begin with especially all the models.
The Army Builder is amazing, easy to use and follow and you learn the rules very quickly because it hyperlinks to the wiki entries.
To be honest i think the way we have set up this sub forum is actually the best way to find out about Infinity now. Maybe i'm biased but i think we have done a great job.

Actually I think Morats make a great equivalent for Orks. Very though, war-like race. The difference is they are better than most humans and don't do Horde armies.

http://www.infinitythegame.com/infinity/en/2011/miniatures/morat-vanguard-infantry-2/

That assumes two things...
1) I want to take a similar 40K army into Infinity... (I don't - or not deliberately anyway)
2) That I can create a Combined Army out of only Morats, or that that even makes sense in Infinity (I have *no* clue)

Plus, they *look* more like (armoured) Kroot to me

While I'm sure there are people who would take whatever they play in 40k across to Infinity - I know it wouldn't be everyone.

The problem with describing Infinity in terms of 40K is - are you helping or hindering the conversion? I guess it probably comes down to the individual...

When I was watching/playing, I felt like I was playing a tabletop version of "Syndicate"

Yeh they are like leet Kroot. You can put pretty much any models down and have a competitive army bar a few combinations. I believe Morats have their own sectorial so you can field only those types if you please. Sectorials are dirty fun!

I always feel Deus Ex is like playing Infinity on the xbox. Too awesome! Hacking, sniping, TO camo, assassination, it's all in there and you get to do it in first person!

Arakasi, will we be seeing conversions from you? It's something that the 'Official' Infinity community seem to be afraid/disapprove of. I took a big steaming Forest Gump on their chests when i started my Necromunda gang. It's pretty much sacrilidge over there i think, not only am i converting them but i'm converting them for a Games Workshop system. Hahaha!

I will be going "sans" conversions to begin with - well, that's the "plan". We'll just have to see how long that lasts...

The "reasoning", as it were, is I spend *way* too much time converting my Orks (which is why they are no where near finished...) - so a non/less converted force has a certain attractiveness for me.

Actually, from my (extremely) limited exposure, it would seem to me that the tabletop scenery is where it is at for excessive creativeness in Infinity - not the models.

No doubt, once I have the models and am a bit more comfortable with everything, I *probably* won't be able to resist...

Watch this space (well, the other one, when it appears...)

(It appears my Orks are getting no love this evening - already Infinity is eating into my 40k time!)

Haha, yeh the Terrain gives a lot of cool scope for creativity.

Hopefully you find yourself unable to resist quite soon, it's very, very lonely over here. I think the only other conversion i've seen is a head swap. In fact i'll post a thread about this. One minute...

Arakasi wrote:
Actually, from my (extremely) limited exposure, it would seem to me that the tabletop scenery is where it is at for excessive creativeness in Infinity - not the models.

I agree, at least partly. I think the terrain can take more of a priority in games of Infinity, certainly compared to the GW (core) games. Firstly, it is more of an integral part of the rules system; it should become pretty apparent within the first 5 minutes of the first game that heavy cover is essential. Not that it is not important in 40k/WFB, because of course it is, but there is a large degree of difference. Secondly, the small model count tends to give you more time to look at other areas. Unless you go mental and buy lots of different factions/sectorals, I've found a lot of time in between to work on other terrain projects, and to try and make a setting that those beautiful sculpts deserve - hell, to even do stuff for other games, which I could never normally consider when working on a WFB army and having a production line of dozens of models. It's one of the beauties of a skirmish scale system, that combined with the tactical ingenuity built into it I think are some of Infinity's greatest strengths.

Like Casey's Law (no longer a lost soul? ) I've tried to get a couple of casual players into Infinity. They had played some stuff before (mostly board games stuff, or low model count GW specialist games) and would not have even considered getting into WFB because of the costs and model count. £30 for a starter box-set has been a much easier sell for them, so I think perhaps the game should help get people into wargaming who otherwise could not have excused the expense.

Funnily enough your post just made me realised that all the armies and fluff i have made in the past have revolved around dense terrain and urban warfare. And i have always gone for elite troops in small groups too. Seems like i was built for Infinity!

And yeh i found my soul :

If this is a 40k to Infinity thread... allow me to put these pics here, wich are always useful to compare the miniatures.

I've tended to describe it as anime meets posthuman cyberpunk, or something like that. I'm not sure it's that close to 40K.

It feels more like a modern special ops skirmish game, given the use of smoke grenades and sneaking around and hacking your enemy's remotes and so forth...

...right up till genetically engineered rebuilt super-soldier Achilles gets the drop on your giant robot and stabs him in the eye with his explosive gladius.

I love those comparisons pictures. It shows the real differences between true scale and heroic.

Casey's Law wrote:I love those comparisons pictures. It shows the real differences between true scale and heroic.

"True Scale" means something entirely different!

I think maybe you're looking for "True 28MM"?

Haha! Yeah my bad.

Nope. I'm afraid you've triggered a rant from this wannabe artist there.

"True scale" does indeed mean "of correct proportion" (with some meanings of scale and proportion being synonymous), it just happens that 40k players misuse the term as a shorthand for "I've made my Space Marines far too big".
A 7' tall Space Marine (taking Jes Goodwin's word on their size, instead of overrated Black Library authors) at 32mm scale should be about 38mm tall, but many "true scale marines" are well past 40mm. And still not true scale, as they've still inherited proportion errors from the heroic proportions of GW's 28mm range.

"True 28mm" is something different again. It's 28mm that's actually 28mm, not the "28mm" that many 32mm models spend their time pretending to be. Why producers (Corvus Belli included) can't just call their 32mm models 32mm instead of 28mm and save us all the bother of having to deal with two different sizes of "28mm" is beyond me.

IJW has written these articles for 40k players going into Infinity.
If it's any help.

Good points Marco, there are a lot of pitfalls in the nomenclature of scale modeling. For instance, 28mm has become a generalized term for miniatures around that size and not an exact measure of their scale.

@Hinden - Thanks for reminding me, i've been meaning to add them to the beginners thread for ages.

GW is the 800 pound Gorilla in the room and sadly with their horribly proportioned sculpting, gigantic 'normal' humans and weedly aliens standing as tall as an 8 foot tall post-human in power armor... well, in the SF wargaming community, "True Scale" means something that may not jibe well with a dictionary, but carries a certain connotation nonetheless.

Of course, we can agree to disagree too!

Either way, CB's sculpting is a joy to behold!

We did a bunch of demo days and ran tournaments, we're having one tomorrow as a matter of fact.

http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/436143.page

It was mostly me flaming the fuel behind getting other people to play. I made four tables worth of Infinity terrain for example, which took days of work. I also offered to teach everyone I could find how to play and was pretty gentle with them when I did. People like to win, 40k players as much as anyone else, so crushing them during demo games was not a good idea.

We also made it very clear that our tournaments were wide open to beginners. We've had beginners, with almost no games under their belts, do well because we had people willing to teach while they played and they were also playing other beginners.

It also require patience. This summer we had three Infinity players.

By Christmas, still three...

At our January tournament we ended up with eight players and could have had 14 if things hadn't gotten stupid for some people's schedules.

Our February tournament had 7 players. Hopefully we'll have at least seven or eight tomorrow.

We also went over and played at other stores and invited them to our tournaments directly. That helped build interest as well and got some of the guys from that store to play in our tournaments.

So it takes a lot of work and patience, but we now have a burgeoning Infinity community and an LGS who stocks the models and appreciates that we've made him money.

I always believed what is holding back more players from 40k or anywhere jumping into Infinity is the steeper learning curve.

Price point can be an issue from certain people, only have so many gaming bucks. Though I'm not embarrassed to ask people who are new to war gaming to jump into say Infinity or a Spartan Games product unlike 40k.

People ask the starting price of 40k they are speechless (literally).

With Infinity or a Spartan Games product any where from 80-130 bucks depending how big of an army/fleet you are starting out. That's the future price of one (1) space marine.

The price is certainly one of the reasons I got into Infinity. Though once you know how much terrain you need it starting go into that too! But that's a good thing.

I try to tell 40k players that it's is more complex than 40k but it's not as complicated as a roleplay game, and it's a good thing. Tell them all the things you can't do in 40k you can do infinity. hacking, healing, climbing, ARO, etc.

I'm curious about infinity myself.
By the looks of it, it appears to be a cyberpunk-esque skirmish game with anime elements that is reminiscent of the old syndicate DOS game.
How close am I?

And do you paint the miniatures? How hard are they to paint? The appear a lot smaller than GW miniatures.

Oh, anyone necron equivalents? I love me some killer robots

Hi and welcome!

I'd say you are just about right. It's a blend of different sci-fi I think. The thing I like though it tries to stick to hard sci-fi. No psychic stuff here. But I'd say anime cyberpuck with a video game edge.

I certainly paint the minis and love them! No they are not smaller than 40k stuff but they are more detailed. They are bit more of a challange but worth it. Since you are playing less guys you can take more time to paint on each figure.

I'd say the Necron Equivalent could be the Combined army with a lot of EI: Skiavoros, Charontid, Anathematic, and the Avatar. Expensive points but very killy. They look more like a blend of organic and robotic though. No metalic skeletons there. If you like cool giant robot fun there's also PanOceanic which has the mot TAGs to choose from.

I'm guessing you like Cthulu so id' say the other part of the CA army the Shasvastii, which i love, are cool proper alien looking guys.