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Actually, Games Workshop can make SOME good business decisions, but rubbish customer-satisfaction-related decisions. They'd keep dreads as an option to allow you to buy more.

I would also recommend taking off the 'confirmed' rumour bit; this is the internet; someone will read it, believe it and then start mindlessly complaining and spawning more anti-gamesworkshop drivel.

Oh please - anyone that reads that and believes it (much less repeats it) deserves what they get.

I'm not 'anti-Games Workshop' per se. I LOVE their products. I've got a small country's GNP worth of their stuff...I just question their sanity when it comes to how they do things. I'm not alone in that. I wish them well - I just wish they'd find more intelligent ways of trying to grow, and grow the hobby. As an armchair CEO, I'd do things differently. So would you.

Not that what i have to say has anything to do with what's being discussed, and feel free to beat me up if it's been addressed, but i'm disappointed that GW is rumored to be including Stormravens in the GK codex. I mean, they just release them in the most recent BA codex, and now all of the sudden they're appearing in this one too? Next they'll just be saying "oh everyone can field them" with some flimsy reasoning behind it.

yes, i play BA's. can you tell?

Dakez wrote:Not that what i have to say has anything to do with what's being discussed, and feel free to beat me up if it's been addressed, but i'm disappointed that GW is rumored to be including Stormravens in the GK codex. I mean, they just release them in the most recent BA codex, and now all of the sudden they're appearing in this one too? Next they'll just be saying "oh everyone can field them" with some flimsy reasoning behind it.

yes, i play BA's. can you tell?

GK's have had access to Stormravens (in the fluff) since Stormravens were invented. Check your BA codex.

I'm sure they will come out and say that. Why wouldn't they want to sell as many kits as possible to the largest playing demographic?

pretre wrote:

Dakez wrote:Not that what i have to say has anything to do with what's being discussed, and feel free to beat me up if it's been addressed, but i'm disappointed that GW is rumored to be including Stormravens in the GK codex. I mean, they just release them in the most recent BA codex, and now all of the sudden they're appearing in this one too? Next they'll just be saying "oh everyone can field them" with some flimsy reasoning behind it.

yes, i play BA's. can you tell?

GK's have had access to Stormravens (in the fluff) since Stormravens were invented. Check your BA codex.

it's currently......mia......but i will. my apologies.

pretre wrote:

Dakez wrote:Not that what i have to say has anything to do with what's being discussed, and feel free to beat me up if it's been addressed, but i'm disappointed that GW is rumored to be including Stormravens in the GK codex. I mean, they just release them in the most recent BA codex, and now all of the sudden they're appearing in this one too? Next they'll just be saying "oh everyone can field them" with some flimsy reasoning behind it.

yes, i play BA's. can you tell?

GK's have had access to Stormravens (in the fluff) since Stormravens were invented. Check your BA codex.

Yup, fluff wise GK had them first.

Actually, I did have another thing: What will the GK's guest star abilty be for other chapters? Will they limit their use to something like "only when a daemon army is present" if you're running another chapter and want to include GK as allied units?

Dakez wrote:Actually, I did have another thing: What will the GK's guest star abilty be for other chapters? Will they limit their use to something like "only when a daemon army is present" if you're running another chapter and want to include GK as allied units?

GK Ally Rule Leak*:
"Not in MAH house" : Grey Knights may be used in any quantity for any reason with any other army at any time as long as it is an Apoc game or you have your opponent's consent.


* Not a leak and completely fake.


Seriously though, Allies are no more and will not be in the codex.

[quote=Daemon-Archon Ren

Why not make a skwelp account, false identity, prove your sorces and protect your image? Then everyone is happy, it certainly isn't about ego (how can one take credit behind a mask?) and you may be able to help your source out with some office politics (Make believe you are a co-worker of your source whom your source may not like, problem solved!).

Truth be told, we shouldn't need things like this, but hopefully GW will eventually learn the meaning of the Age of Aquarius and get with the program...

pretre wrote:

Dakez wrote:Actually, I did have another thing: What will the GK's guest star abilty be for other chapters? Will they limit their use to something like "only when a daemon army is present" if you're running another chapter and want to include GK as allied units?

GK Ally Rule Leak*:"Not in MAH house" : Grey Knights may be used in any quantity for any reason with any other army at any time as long as it is an Apoc game or you have your opponent's consent.


* Not a leak, but completely not factual.


Seriously though, Allies are no more and will not be in the codex.

Gotcha, that's pretty helpful! thank you!

VoidAngel wrote:I'm sure they will come out and say that. Why wouldn't they want to sell as many kits as possible to the largest playing demographic?

I think GW believes they have a winner with the SR and it will get players to start new armies.

So they won't do it right away because they would rather have Ultramarine players run out and start a new GK or BA army than have them add one more unit to their existing armies.

Of course I still look at the SR and laugh.

Or cry.

Mad4Minis wrote:


XXX hits the internet and GW knows exactly who to go to. Or at least what branch/department leaked the info.

There's XXX on the internet?!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:I'm sure they will come out and say that. Why wouldn't they want to sell as many kits as possible to the largest playing demographic?

I think GW believes they have a winner with the SR and it will get players to start new armies.

So they won't do it right away because they would rather have Ultramarine players run out and start a new GK or BA army than have them add one more unit to their existing armies.

Of course I still look at the SR and laugh.

Or cry.

Who actually starts a new Space Marine army?

"Hi, this week, these blue power armored guys are Blood Angles!"
"Okey dokey - game on!"

VoidAngel wrote:

Mad4Minis wrote:


XXX hits the internet and GW knows exactly who to go to. Or at least what branch/department leaked the info.

There's XXX on the internet?!

I got some toasters you might want to see.....

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I think GW believes they have a winner with the SR and it will get players to start new armies.

So they won't do it right away because they would rather have Ultramarine players run out and start a new GK or BA army than have them add one more unit to their existing armies.

I am amazed at the amount of malice, guile, etc that people attribute to GW. I just don't think the situation is ever as complicated or interesting as people make it out to be.

pretre wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I think GW believes they have a winner with the SR and it will get players to start new armies.

So they won't do it right away because they would rather have Ultramarine players run out and start a new GK or BA army than have them add one more unit to their existing armies.

I am amazed at the amount of malice, guile, etc that people attribute to GW. I just don't think the situation is ever as complicated or interesting as people make it out to be.

pretre wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:I think GW believes they have a winner with the SR and it will get players to start new armies.

So they won't do it right away because they would rather have Ultramarine players run out and start a new GK or BA army than have them add one more unit to their existing armies.

I am amazed at the amount of malice, guile, etc that people attribute to GW. I just don't think the situation is ever as complicated or interesting as people make it out to be.

Is there another explanation for some of the boneheaded things they do?

VoidAngel wrote:
Is there another explanation for some of the boneheaded things they do?

Hanlon's Razor? Or the fact that they are human beings?

The internet has created a culture of demonization for anyone who causes someone the slightest bit of discomfort or does something you don't agree with or like. It is kind of sad. :(

While stupidity definitely plays a part, I don't think that's an EXCUSE!

As I said, I love GWs games, and they have the finest minis out there bar none (overall). But they often seem out of touch with what customers want, how businesses run and grow, they're Anglocentric as all get out, (understandable...but not when it's money out the window) and seem to treat customers with disdain or disregard on a regularish basis. That doesn't make them demons, it makes them poor business people.
1) There are more American players than there are people in England. Recognize that maybe you should gear your product releases with that in mind. Maybe.
2) People in the U.S. play in independent stores and their friend's game rooms - not GW stores.
3) The MORE people selling your products - the better! Release the stranglehold on pricing and distribution outlets. Their treatment of independent retailers over the years is one of my biggest objections.
4) a $30 kit that 100,000 people buy is more money in your pocket than a $70 kit 10000 people buy.
It's not that they're evil - I'm not saying that. It's that for a company their size and with such a fanatical following (myself included) - I have a hard time understanding why they do some of the things they do.
But I didn't want to turn this into a bash GW thread. Really. I do love their games.

The Dreadknight's DCCW-analogue is called Knight Night Night, because it makes everything he fights go night night.

VoidAngel wrote:While stupidity definitely plays a part, I don't think that's an EXCUSE!
But I didn't want to turn this into a bash GW thread. Really. I do love their games.

To avoid this continuing, I'll just say I think you're over-simplifying the situation and I disagree.


Anyways, back to horrible puns and absolutely no GK rumors!

VoidAngel wrote:
It's not that they're evil - I'm not saying that. It's that for a company their size and with such a fanatical following (myself included) - I have a hard time understanding why they do some of the things they do.

It's cultural.

British marketing is much more low-key than American marketing.

Do I smell a Knight-Fighting rule coming up?

DarknessEternal wrote:

VoidAngel wrote:
It's not that they're evil - I'm not saying that. It's that for a company their size and with such a fanatical following (myself included) - I have a hard time understanding why they do some of the things they do.

It's cultural.

British marketing is much more low-key than American marketing.

Historically, perhaps, but now Britain is just as plastered in advertising as the US.

Jaon wrote:Do I smell a Knight-Fighting rule coming up?

/Head desk


I can't believe you said that.

Lord Harrab wrote:

Jaon wrote:Do I smell a Knight-Fighting rule coming up?

/Head desk


I can't believe you said that.

You sound like my ex

I'd assume that GK "DreadKnights" would have Force Weapons with the exact same function as Librarian Dreads found in Codex Blood Angels. Or are these DreadKnights not a replacement for the standard Dreads in the codex. Thinking about it, DreadKnights being a replacement for standard Dreads seems pretty stupid...

I expect it to be either incredibly shooty or very good in cc so we get at least something bigger then an infantry model that doesnt die the second a monstrous creature looks at it.

/Head desk


I can't believe you said that.

I said it first so believe it

When it has as many bad jokes as it now does, well, this thread is nearing the end...

VoidAngel wrote:While stupidity definitely plays a part, I don't think that's an EXCUSE!

3) The MORE people selling your products - the better! Release the stranglehold on pricing and distribution outlets. Their treatment of independent retailers over the years is one of my biggest objections.
4) a $30 kit that 100,000 people buy is more money in your pocket than a $70 kit 10000 people buy.
It's not that they're evil - I'm not saying that. It's that for a company their size and with such a fanatical following (myself included) - I have a hard time understanding why they do some of the things they do.
But I didn't want to turn this into a bash GW thread. Really. I do love their games.

Don't really want to start a long debate, or short one, but as someone that actually has been a retailer for 25 years, and carrying GW that long, I'm not exaggerating when I say I've been given a huge amount of support from GW, and far, far more than any other Game Manufacturer. Free racking alone is thousands of dollars, and available to any retailer. The "GW treats independents poorly" is a bit overstated, especially when what i get from most manufacturers is a free poster.

And you're math could easily be wrong. Think profit, not gross. If, for example, you make 0 on that 30.00 kit, then you make 0 on 100,000 of them. Without knowing profit margins on what they sell, and you also have to factor in selling to distributors and LGS at wholesale, it's hard to know. Could they sell for less? Sure. Would it make more money for them? They might know, but we don't.

Back to Grey Knights. One of the guys at my shop claimed in his facebook page to have seen the Codex. Nearly impossible here in the states unless it was an advance copy at a GW store. Anyone know if GW has sent them out yet, or is the little spanker pulling my leg?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Alpharius wrote:When it has as many bad jokes as it now does, well, this thread is nearing the end...

Time to call it a Knight then.

Alpharius wrote:When it has as many bad jokes as it now does, well, this thread is nearing the end...

Oh, don't write it off so cavalierly!