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If I might ask, what is the current amount of accrued points? I'm terribly curious

 recruittons wrote:
If I might ask, what is the current amount of accrued points? I'm terribly curious

We will have all that up to date in the update today (don't want to say exactly as it may change before the final posting). But I can say Santana has been safely added to 225.

 kaiohx wrote:

Forar wrote:
Another henchman posted this up, which might let people better assess what they're getting;

https://docs.google.com/a/cadillacfairview.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AnAzg5GNpKW5dHNmMmMyUUg0RWxNMEFMUEl2MXBhSVE#gid=0

The problem with that spreadsheet is its hard to figure out what exactly every level is getting currently. KH:M has the same issue. From the looks of it, at a glance, I would already assume we hit the 250k mark since theres a 1 in that column. It would be nice if someone just broke down the totals as they are CURRENTLY, and then updated them as the goals get hit.

True, which I hope they include. Here's my take on it, apologies for any mistakes.

Early backer 1: Miss Terius: added to any backer at $60 or more who joined the campaign within the first few days (added for consistency, not to rub it in anyones face).
Early backer 2: A "penny dreadful" pdf adventure, added for those who joined within the first few weeks.

Core $60/82:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck

Living Room $125/158:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
1 male or female (random) Multi Pose Mini sprue (makes up to 3 figures).

Dining Room $125/158:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck
3 MPMs (1 male, 1 female, 1 random)
Hannah

Gaming Room $225/269:
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
3 MPMs (1 male, 1 female, 1 random)
Hannah
Santana (hey it's Hannah Santana!! *CHEESY GUITAR RIFF*)
Unique hand made wicked doll

Secret Tier $500+
Player's Guide
Fate Master's Guide
Plastic Fate Deck x 2
Hardcover joint PG and FMG
3 MPMs (1 male, 1 female, 1 random)
Hannah
Santana x 2
Unique hand made wicked doll
1 of the following: entry into Gencon campaign / character drawn in A book / painted Hannah + hardcover signed by team. Pick one, +1 for each additional $250.

Stretch goals active:
200k: $125+ backers get a Fate Master's screen (hide notes, perhaps have maps and quick reference tables on it) and a pad of character sheets.
205k: $60+ backers get PDF versions of the books.
215k: $125+ backers get an extra MPM, making for 1 of each for the Living Room tier, and 2 of each for Dining Room and Gaming Room.
250k: $125+ backers get a Hanging Tree limited edition figure (2012 Gencon exclusive release).

*750 "points": $125 backers get a Santana.
1000 "points": $60 backers get a Santana.

Apologies if I've missed anything, be happy to update accordingly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Salutations!

Some days it's just good to be me. I highly recommend it. Today is one of those days! As you can see by the "Ye Old Back-O-Meter One Thousand" we broke 500 points, and unlocked Santana at the Game Room ($225) pledge level! For those of you keeping score, we are at 519 points!

That's not all! We also hit our 195k stretch goal, which adds the Special Edition Fate Deck to the Core Set ($60) pledge!

With that, comes an updated Rewards Graphic, which shows exactly what you get at each level. As we make new stretches we'll update the image with all the current rewards! It looks like we have less than 5k to go for the next stretch!

Now, I believe I promised a game... and I'm the sinister sort. Scattered about the internet are 5 pieces to a puzzle. If at least one of you can find and re-assemble them you win! Feel free to work together! What do you win? 100 points on the Back-O-Meter! That will get us a good chunk of the way towards 750 points now won't it? Now get hunting!

I think I'm just gonna leave this little piece here...

Forar, you're fast! You grabbed the update before Mack remembered to edit in the link to the video of us creating a character, which is a fantastic video, because I'm in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJ5gG504Q44&feature=youtu.be

From the Wyrd forums;




Automatically Appended Next Post:
On Mack's Facebook page;

Another from the bottom of the KS page


Automatically Appended Next Post:
A hint is dropped...

Creator Wyrd Miniatures 2 minutes ago
Should I give a hint? I think I'll give a hint on the last piece.
Tiny Porcines, Angry Ursines, and company toooooooooo

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!

It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.

If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.

One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.

What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.

Bob- While I agree that the super-LE-models thing is a bit of a turnoff for me (as I'm stuck on the outside looking in at them!) the update yesterday, and today, are both a pretty sweet turn-around for the company / way they're running this.

Mack is hilarious.

A puzzle piece was posted on Dakka!

That is all

(Note, I haven't pledged simply because I'm not an RPG player and I would only consider a minis-only pledge. But I definitely agree with "rewarding" positive behavior on the part of a company, and voting with my wallet for negative- hence my not buying GW, and looking to support other companies... potentially such as Wyrd)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!

It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.

If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.

One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.

What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.

Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)

I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux, but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.

You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.

Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.

Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.

Forar wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

 Buzzsaw wrote:
I think that a number of effects are at work here;
Santana! Santana! Santana!

It seems to me that they're entire strategy hinges on the existence of massive demand for Santana. There is not a discussion of stretch goals or value for money or adding more to the base game anymore. Now, it's "We need to let everyone know they'll get a Santana for $125! That's what will make them love us again spend more money!" This seems like a weakness to me.

If we assume that everyone who has already drunk the Santana Kool-Aid has pledged, then Wyrd needs to give the rest of us potential backers a better reason to join than "but it's Santana! SANTANA!" It's quite clear that Wyrd thinks she's valuable, but I'm far from convinced.

One more thing: I found the presumption of making the sweet spot pledge over $200 to be a very bitter move on their part. Mantic came close enough to burning bridges with me by making the Dreadball Striker pledge so high without any "rewarded" lower-tier pledge. It felt like they looked at the KOW success and said, "Hey, I bet we could have milked them for 50% more if we'd tried." In the end, they were much more responsive to customers' comments and wishes, and came across as genuinely excited and supportive, so I gave them the benefit of the doubt. If the Warpath sweet spot is $200 or more, they'll be Wyrd to me.

What I'm getting at is that Wyrd seems to think they're such hot shart, but in the end they're just a bunch of gasbags.

Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)

I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux, but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.

You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.

Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.

Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.

I traded a copy of Netrunner for her at GenCon. Teehee. :-)

 cincydooley wrote:
I traded a copy of Netrunner for her at GenCon. Teehee. :-)

Nicely done!

Others have included them as prize support for tournaments, and yet other henchmen said that they ended up just giving some away, particularly when they didn't play Guild but friends or other local players did.

But the vast majority were left with ebay, and man, for a while it got ugly over there.

I'd rather get one 'for free' (included in costs I was willing to pay anyway) along with a bunch of other RPG stuff and swag than go forage on there. Got my Miss T for $30 there, but pre-KS Santana was way too rich for my blood.

Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.

Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here

 cincydooley wrote:
I traded a copy of Netrunner for her at GenCon. Teehee. :-)

I still need to pick that up. I was so excited it was coming out, one of my favorite CCGs ever.

 Alfndrate wrote:
Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.

Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here

Are you saying you don't have a miss demeanor?

@Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.

Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here

Are you saying you don't have a miss demeanor?

I may have committed one, but I do not own one I'd like to get my hands on the two misses I'm missing since I know I'll never easily get my hands on NE LCB or dead justice.

 recruittons wrote:
@Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.

I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!

Curses! Well then, I'll just have to content myself with drinking an excess of wine and painting my recent haul of minis. Oh, what's that Nix? You want me to paint you? Okay, I guess that's cool...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I should add, Nix is my first Malifaux mini

 Alfndrate wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:

 Alfndrate wrote:
Buzz, I work for Cy at On the Lamb Games, she is the slave driver that whips Miskatonicalum and I into writing more for Endless... I've got extra Miss Terious Models due to lucrative spending at GenCon. If she wanted a Miss Terious, I would have no issue parting with one, and she was curious as to the sculpt. There was no rubbing the model in her face. And for the "limited" edition-ness, Miss Terious is the cheapest of the Misses by far, considering Miss Pack I don't think is distributed anymore, AND I've never seen a Miss Demeanor.

Also the puzzle piece idea has been done before. Lalochezia was here several months ago promoting book 4 art found here

Are you saying you don't have a miss demeanor?

I may have committed one, but I do not own one I'd like to get my hands on the two misses I'm missing since I know I'll never easily get my hands on NE LCB or dead justice.

So.... I think I may have an extra miss demeanor. If I do she's yours. Lemme check.

Miggidy_Mack wrote:

 recruittons wrote:
@Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.

I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!

I'm going to go ahead and pull RAW here and remind you that Spiderman's exact words in Family Guy were "Everybody gets one."

Emphasis mine.

From this we can deduce that there is another way to get at this problem.

Alf. Confirmed that I have 2 Miss demeanors. I have to find my cards though. They've apparently disappeared.

 Lalochezia wrote:

Miggidy_Mack wrote:

 recruittons wrote:
@Lalochezia: I have another wager for you and Mack. Not quite as lucrative for you two as a pledge, but I'll make it anyway. If you two draw Batman with your eyes closed and post the pictures in the KS comments, I'll pledge $5 more on top of my current pledge amount.

I'm like Spiderman from Family Guy. You only get ONE!

I'm going to go ahead and pull RAW here and remind you that Spiderman's exact words in Family Guy were "Everybody gets one."

Emphasis mine.

From this we can deduce that there is another way to get at this problem.

Ohhhhh no. I'm not falling for THAT again.

Forar wrote:


Man, don't hold back. Tell us how you really feel. ;-)

I don't know how closely you pay attention to Malifaux,

First of all, I keep telling you I am (was) a prospective new customer. I do not think that means what you think that means. Inconceivable, I know.

but when Santana was introduced in the lead up to Gencon this past August, the community consensus was one of loving the model, and then immediately followed by disappointment that it would be of limited availability, (Lol. Customer relations!) restricted to Henchmen only (with appreciation that it was indeed a very nice way to reward those who worked quite hard to earn the one or more some pulled off). Note; just being a henchman wasn't enough, those who got them (I was not one of them, as I wasn't even a HM yet) worked their butts off to get them.

Do you hear yourself? You seem to be defending the practice of creating so many unnecessarily limited minis out of their best pieces, yet your words make the very idea insane. "It was a popular product, one that people wanted to buy in droves. That is why it was only given to the select few, and then I guess the molds were destroyed." I guess after the kickstarter, Miss Terious's sculptor's eyes will be put out so that he might never again create something so beautiful. Or valuable.

To think, Mantic rewards their hardcore butt-workers with early promotional copies and resin masters of models they will actually sell. Morons. I bet they could never beat $200k in a Kickstarter.

(If you get caught up nitpicking my exaggeration instead of addressing the point that Wyrd made a crazy decision that lost them oodles of potential money and disappointed their fans, you'll win a special prize. Miss de Pointe.)

You call it a weakness, I call it giving the community something it has wanted, and prior to this drive, only had access by being a HM before she became available and working like a dog, working like a dog at Gencon, or paying $Texas for one on Ebay.

That sounds horrible. Why would I want to support a company that treated its fans like that? "You want it? Too bad! Haw haw haw!"

Oh, wait. They are now dangling this bait before the Kickstarter backers because they got desperate. What a nice, young company!

Now, one could argue "oh no, they are making them less unique!" by handing potentially 1200+ of them by the time this is done. Personally (and self-servingly) I think it's perfectly fitting for a figure that was used as a Thank You to one group of people to be used as a Thank You to another group, especially since the former got to enjoy the ones they had for a year before the number 'in the wild' will increase, yet still be fairly hard to come by.

Does 'thank you' really count when it sounds so insincere and self-serving?

First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.

You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.

Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.

Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.

Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.

EDIT:

Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.

Looks like we're missing one piece and the piece that goes in the top right is smaller than the others.

They got it:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?37309-Through-the-Breach-Kickstarter-Live!&p=491498&viewfull=1#post491498

Although I liked this one better, myself:

http://www.wyrd-games.net/showthread.php?37309-Through-the-Breach-Kickstarter-Live!&p=491441&viewfull=1#post491441

Nice, that's a hundred extra points!

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:

First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...

To get Santana, one only had to work three shifts over the course of 4 days, this could be something as being a part of the early crew on Thursday helping set up, this could be running 10 to 15 minute demos through the day, or you could be insane like me and work Saturday from 9 am to 10pm and get it all done in a day. And as it has been said, there was another way for Henchmen to earn Santana, and that was by running events in their local areas during the summer campaign. So, not only did this earn the henchmen, one or two Santanas (depending on how much they did), but it also netted them their normal henchman rewards for running events. Also to "cash in on it's desirability," Yes, because other kickstarters aren't doing that right now. Kingdom Death: Monster is giving away FAR MORE minis, I'll give them that, but plenty of those minis are only available in certain ways during the kickstarter. If I remember correctly, the "armor kits" that are being sold as options are coming in twenty figs for 50, and and 4 for 20? Yes, that's a great deal, but outside of the kickstarter you can only get these options via their individual expansions. How is it that this gets a free pass, but Santana, a model that people in Wyrd's community have been wanting for awhile, can't be given out? Should Wyrd charge for it? Would that ease your thoughts on this? As for overvaluing their band, Wyrd hasn't done that at all, thanks for the GW comparison, you could have just said it. You want heaping on of rewards? Then back the KS so it can start striving towards those goals. Everyone knows they can't offer more if there isn't the push behind them, I'm sorry you're not getting the entirety of Wyrd's line for 125 dollars, but dude you've got to be realistic in this.

Also, I have no idea what you're talking about with the "sweet spot" being over $200. Assuming the middle tiers get Santana (and we're over 40% of the way there already, 105/250 or better), I'd call the 125/158 tiers the sweet spot. The only thing the Gaming Room has going for it is the Doll, an extra deck (compared to the miniature version) and the hardcover (same). Santana for now, but I'd be shocked if we didn't make it to the full points needed to get at least the 125's Santanas as well.

You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.

Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.

Actually we don't know that because none of us work for Wyrd in a paycheck sense besides two posters, and they don't have to tell us because honestly it's not important who they originally wanted to get Santanas. This entire thread for the most part has been people going back and forth about the value of the pledge levels, and Cincydooley even said it thirty some pages ago that Wyrd needs to target their skirmisher gamer in this. Why wouldn't they offer Santana to the highest tier originally? Because a single mini wanted by the community could be more than enough to push some people up to that spot? Sounds like a business plan. Did it work? No, did they adjust it to help it work? Yes, the 225s are getting Santanas without needing the 500 backers at that level, and so now that she's been unlocked, there is more incentive to pledge the 225 level. And there is even more reason to pledge the 125 if/once she gets unlocked there. I'm sure some of the 60 dollar pledges will bump up to 125, because even if you go for the living room gamer, that's three books (roughly 120 dollar value), a fate deck (11.50), a multi-pose mini (11 to 21 dollars), Santana (I'll give her a 20 dollar value as though she were available in a store). That's easily worth the jump up, and one might argue that it's worth the jump up even more if you go for the Dining Room Gamer. And the "unwashed masses" paying a lot of money has nothing really to do with this. She has never been available for "purchase" from Wyrd before and as such you can't fairly argue that Wyrd doesn't want their average gamer to get their hands on her, you're just being flamebait-y. As we've said before, she was NEVER available to people originally because she was a thank you gift. Jeebus, how many times does it need to be said. She's still a thank-you gift in some sense, but this time it's a purchasable one.

Edit: Hell, there's a non-zero chance they'll add a model that has sold for $100-200 on ebay into the $60/82 tier. Even after an expected price drop from the increased supply, that tier will quite possibly pay for itself. I'm willing to bet there are more than 1500 Miss Terious and Miss Demeanor and other limited edition figures out there and they regularly sell for $30-50+.

Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.

EDIT:

Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.

Spoiler:

(She doesn't fall for his act of contrition)

Except it's nothing like a CCG, there's nothing collectible about wargaming (there are some pieces that are collectible, but not in the same sense as a CCG)! Companies release limited edition models all the time. Within arms reach, I have the Bombshell Bombardier & Druid Gone Wilder from PP, the AdeptiCon 2011 mini (that orc on the throne), The Black Kiwi from On the Lamb Games, Santana, and Nightmare Edition Teddy from Wyrd (Miss Terious would be on that list, but she's not on the shelf in front of my, or on my painting station lol ). Also like a collectible card game, none of these are going to be illegal in 18 months! huzzah for that. But seriously, with the exception of the Wyrd minis, you cannot get your hands on any of the other limited edition stuff outside of eBay, so how come PP or AdeptiCon get this almighty free pass on their limited edition figures? Is it because they're not bringing them out and letting others have a chance at them? If that's the case, I'd rather always invest in Wyrd than any other company simply for the fact that I have a better chance of them offering a limited edition model I might be interested in.

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
First of all, I keep telling you I am (was) a prospective new customer. I do not think that means what you think that means. Inconceivable, I know.

I was referring to the forums. I thought that perhaps you might've perused the Wyrd forums at some point. For example; I'm here on what is apparently a primarily GW forum, and aside from a few weeks in the MMO when it launched, I've never touched another GW product. Unless you count Hero Quest, though I believe that's a bit of a stretch.

Apologies for assuming you might've dug into the company, firmly fence sitting maybe-but-not-really Customer (with a capital C and everything!) that you are.

Points for some Princess Bride though.

Do you hear yourself? You seem to be defending the practice of creating so many unnecessarily limited minis out of their best pieces, yet your words make the very idea insane. "It was a popular product, one that people wanted to buy in droves. That is why it was only given to the select few, and then I guess the molds were destroyed." I guess after the kickstarter, Miss Terious's sculptor's eyes will be put out so that he might never again create something so beautiful. Or valuable.

To think, Mantic rewards their hardcore butt-workers with early promotional copies and resin masters of models they will actually sell. Morons. I bet they could never beat $200k in a Kickstarter.

(If you get caught up nitpicking my exaggeration instead of addressing the point that Wyrd made a crazy decision that lost them oodles of potential money and disappointed their fans, you'll win a special prize. Miss de Pointe.)

I've been playing for a year, and in that time they have released 5 Limited Edition models: 2 at Easter (I had no interest in either), Miss Terious, Santana and the Hanging Tree. 2 of which I might be getting through this KS, the third of which is a possibility (albeit a slim one). I'm not exactly blown away here. I come from a Magic: the Gathering background, where people pay more for a single piece of card stock than I would've for Miss T or Santana on Ebay. Sometimes dozens of times in a single deck. Wargaming is a seriously expensive hobby, but I'm no stranger to rare/hard to find items and promotional pieces. At least in this case I don't have to worry about those pieces actually doing something different in the game. Want to match my fearsome Miss T? I think Death Marshalls are $15 for 3. Give or take, they seem to release, like, 4'ish limited edition alternate sculpts per year. OH NOES!

We can add Missed Thepointe to the contenders from a few pages back, though.

That sounds horrible. Why would I want to support a company that treated its fans like that? "You want it? Too bad! Haw haw haw!"

Oh, wait. They are now dangling this bait before the Kickstarter backers because they got desperate. What a nice, young company!

If Santana was what it took to breathe new life back into the campaign, and they listened (god knows I've been dropping thinly veiled hints about it for ages), good on them for listening to what people wanted and giving it to them.

Does 'thank you' really count when it sounds so insincere and self-serving?

First they artificially inflate the value of the piece by making it impossible for people who cannot physically work (their butts off) at a con for them. Then they cash in on its desirability to sucker their fans into pledging ridiculous amounts of money for a half-assed RPG. Then they lower the cost of entry for all the mewling proles because they just couldn't find any other method for fleecing them more. This is one miniature we're talking about. Other Kickstarters pile on the "thank yous" because they (at least apparently) are genuinely grateful for the support. I can only think of one other miniature company so obsessed overvaluing its brand...

I think it's fine, which is self-serving to me as well. Through the magic of math, the self-serving's cancel out and we're left with a Thank You I Appreciate! Yay!

You know darn well that Wyrd was determined not to give a Santana, one of the most talked about and anticipated minis in this KS, to anyone paying less than $225. Don't act like they were always going to be generous and allow the unwashed masses of TT gamers, their current bread and butter mind you, to get one of them for anything less than $redonkulous. Only desperation and repeated failure drove them to give their lesser, poorer fans an opportunity to touch a Santana. Probably makes the head of Wyrd want to personally spit in every 50th shipment.

Hint: the sweet spot should not leave one with a bitter taste in the mouth.

If Wyrd had no interest in giving the Santana's to the 125 tiers, why would they have run a contest with the community last night to get us 40% of the way there on it's own? Considering the sense of frustration that festered for a few weeks there, I imagine it would've been a lot easier to just have that tally bump up gradually over the remaining week but fall well short. Guess we'll find out in the next 5 days or less, but considering that roughly half of the backers now have an interest in participating, I think it'll happen by Monday or Tuesday, personally.

If anything, I think the opposite; they fully intend to get the middle tiers (their most popular ones by far) Santanas, giving people in the Core tier an extra reason to ponder jumping up, and anyone at the Gaming Room tier who are considering dropping entirely an option to drop down a little instead. Not that this is an ideal outcome for any KS, but presumably the math on the number of people who might drop down is outweighed by those who may bump up and/or join entirely.

Wow. It's like a CCG, but I have a good chance of making my ultra-rares look like ass when I paint them. I'm glad I never got into this.

EDIT:

Keep in mind that I was literally looking to get invested in this company until they insulted my (and your!) intelligence one too many times. And now they're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon their face. I think you know how that song ends.

Spoiler:

(She doesn't fall for his act of contrition)

*shrug*

If you're looking for me to feel bad, you're barking up the wrong tree. Not everything will appeal to everyone, and even with at least 2 from Wyrd watching, I have no interest in asking if that warm liquid you're spraying on me is a summer rain. Though it is a little sweet. You should see a doctor. I think that's a sign of diabetes. Or at least an old movie taught me that. It's probably untrue. Though checking your bile and vitriol levels might not be a bad idea, gotta keep in tip top shape.

Maybe you haven't read my lengthy diatribes, but I've been vocally critical of certain aspects of this drive since day 1. On their forums and later on here, because I wanted to see it get better. Others were even more critical than I, and while it may be too little, too late for some of their contributions, it has been refreshing to see people recognizing effort. Even if it isn't enough.

You, however, for someone who is utterly "un-invested" seem to be particularly emotionally invested in the kickstarter and how it has influenced you're opinion. You practically seem angry to be disappointed, which I find odd. Personally, when I find a product or company doesn't meet my desires, I shrug and move onto something else. Shame to hear Wyrd and Malifaux aren't for you, but with the raw negativity you exude I see no reason to try to change your mind. I enjoy the game, I hope others do, but at the end of the day the only person that I control the happiness of is myself.

Good luck finding a game/company you feel better suits your particular needs, and I bid you good day, sir.

Edit: I am full of bbcode fail here today.

Edit 2: and of course, the opinions expressed are purely representative of the participant, and not reflective etc etc etc.

The campaign is making a slow climb!