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I mean, I read it as just trying to head off his audience rushing to the comments asking questions about the Compendium, since he can't talk about it.

It's also part of his disclosure that he was sent the review copy at no cost and GW doesn't have editorial veto over his review, which is just decent journalistic transparency at this point.

Those battle reports do make the game look pretty boring. It just look tedious and not very exciting.

 Trimarius wrote:

 tauist wrote:

 Trimarius wrote:
The A73 thing is nothing. Obviously that's just a space saving measure so that you can have an uplifting primer and a trench shovel (or whatever cool bits) instead of three identical right elbows. Remember, a guard squad in 40k can't have multiple specials, and that's undoubtedly where they're going to sell most of these kits.

The real worry is what he wasn't saying about the other armies. It really sounded like the non-octarius teams don't have the cool flavor and pseudo-specialists that make the dkk vets and kommandos interesting. Which would be a shame and dampen my interest. If 19/21 teams are "dude with bolter and nothing else" and "dude with meltagun and nothing else", it's going to be more than a bit bland.

In the beginning of the vid, he specifically stated that he cannot talk about the Compendium until 14th of August.

Yes, he's very pointed about that. So pointed that it's either intentionally leading us to the conclusion that the other teams aren't set up in the same way or he suddenly decided to become a terrible presenter. Which would be a shame.

Details in the compendium could reveal future releases...

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/11/sneaking-and-spotting-are-just-as-important-as-shooting-and-stabbing-in-the-new-kill-team/

* You actually measure visibility from your operative’s head, so while a shorter model might have an easier time hiding behind cover, they’ll also have a harder time seeing enemies themselves.

Ugh. Why is this system so messed up in so many weird ways?

Simple abstractions work a lot better than worrying about the exact shape and pose of each model, as does not obfuscating simple measurements behind extra layers.

I think LoS and cover is handled fairly well in Killteam.
It only works on the 'Killzones' they've provided though, it kinda falls apart if you play on larger boards or boards with or more varied terrain though.

Glass Half Dead has a good video going through the system.

It seems like the Kommandos have more wounds and more damage than the veteran guardsmen. Whereas the guardsmen have more "utility".

Watching the three GMG batreps I'm not sure this is all that balanced.

I've watched one GMG game and the Orks absolutely cleaned house, I put it down to strong Ork rolling but is that typical?

It’s finely balanced following the Teresa May school of communication…

 kirotheavenger wrote:
I think LoS and cover is handled fairly well in Killteam.
It only works on the 'Killzones' they've provided though, it kinda falls apart if you play on larger boards or boards with or more varied terrain though.

something I predicted very early on, that the game is designed with the amount of terrain in the box

as soon as you add more or go full 3D, you get into all kind of troubles

The missions given in the Octarius box also set up the battlefield for you (or at least tells you where you need to place the buildings and stuff).
Although fortunately the core book doesn't.

In fairness to them the "vantage point" rules are generic enough that they will apply to anything, in fact I wonder why it's even a keyword. Basically vantage point applies any time you have a 2" height advantage over your target.

Denser or more irregular terrain absolutely won't work though. The cover rules are all about distance from terrain, actual LoS is heavily abstracted away.

I wonder how well it'll work on my Rogue Trader board, or my Necromunda ZM tiles (the old cardboard ones).

Huh, that sounds bad. I was expecting to be able to play on my own terrain.

You will be able to, but I recommend aiming for roughly the same density of different elements as Octarius.

Would suck if the game just bad on our city boards, the missions also are way bland.

But if the ballance is off now, maybe bigger boards will make it feel better to play anyway.

Also after reading and watching I am expecting the worst for the other factions, low effort rules for them will just mean another 2 years sitting around waiting for half the group I bet.

Bland missions come directly from 40k.
The core missions are all variants on the same really. "get to these objectives, spread evenly about the battlefield, and spend an AP to score one point".

 Arbitrator wrote:


Judging by the Octarius book being bound to the boxset and the 'kill zones' very specifically using the terrain from the box, I think the plan will be to release more boxes like Octarius going forward. New campaign book, new set of terrain, two new teams. Then after the big box has sold out, they'll release all of those separate, but the FOMO element is the discount (which will probably be devoured by a rulebook/counter/measuring stick reprint) and having it months in advance.

I think this is the deal breaker for me. Releasing limited core boxes over and over again as they cycle through the 21 factions seems to be the worst way to do it. Is this what they learned from Infinity?

I hope they take the Warcry approach.
Releasing individual Killteam boxes will all the rules for using them contained within the box.

In fact a similar card system would probably suit this Killteam team construction pretty well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Although my concern is if they only release basic squads with lots of cool specialists, we'll never see cool and more interesting units enter the game.

i was recently having dinner with a friend of a friend of a GW employee who had this take, which I must state is pure, unadulterated supposition and guesswork since the GW employee doesn't actually know "the truth" form his little corner of the company, and couldn't tell us even if he DID know, but goes something like this:

the internal department that is producing and managing Kill Team is the "boxed games" division, so very much like with Aeronutica Imperialis and Adeptus Titanicus, that group tends to think of these boxed sets as being full, stand alone games rather than "starter sets" in the 40K mould per se. Given the nature and history of Kill team, they have to make at least basic rules for all factions, but the idea that they might focus future releases on boxed set expansions al la the Elites/Commanders boxes for the previous version of Kill Team is a reasonable assumption.

it might be wildly off base, but its not a totally crazy idea....

Neither Titanicus, Necromunda, Warcry, nor Blood Bowl follows that "primarily box game" approach, and Aeronautica only half follows it.
Although all of those games started as a single box set that expanded beyond that.

So I don't think it's logical to assume that at all.

While you’re at it, stay tuned to Warhammer Community this week as we take a look into the future of Kill Team and find out how the game will be expanding in the coming months.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/08/11/sneaking-and-spotting-are-just-as-important-as-shooting-and-stabbing-in-the-new-kill-team/

very interesting to know what this new edition can bring us.

xerxeskingofking wrote:
i was recently having dinner with a friend of a friend of a GW employee who had this take, which I must state is pure, unadulterated supposition and guesswork since the GW employee doesn't actually know "the truth" form his little corner of the company, and couldn't tell us even if he DID know, but goes something like this:

the internal department that is producing and managing Kill Team is the "boxed games" division, so very much like with Aeronutica Imperialis and Adeptus Titanicus, that group tends to think of these boxed sets as being full, stand alone games rather than "starter sets" in the 40K mould per se. Given the nature and history of Kill team, they have to make at least basic rules for all factions, but the idea that they might focus future releases on boxed set expansions al la the Elites/Commanders boxes for the previous version of Kill Team is a reasonable assumption.

it might be wildly off base, but its not a totally crazy idea....

Aeronautica Imperialis and Titanicus are specialist games, made by the Forge World Studio. The main studio ‘boxed games’ team do Kill Team, Warhammer Underworlds and Warcry, if I recall correctly.

I think it’s more likely that management at GW thought of kill team as a bridge to 40k. And when seeing that many players never want to bridge into 40k as the main game.
They pushed for a alternative that they could continue to monetise.

I think if speculated I think they will just cause more issues if too many teams are effectively left in the dust.
Right now Eldar is looking a bit meh, Tau maybe better. But I hope demons is not half assed again.

Also may be important to note that AoS stuff seems to be the test ground for 40k to an extent.

Scaled down core rules? AoS did it first.
Dice pool for BsF? Silver Tower was first.
Dedicated and different skirmish rules? Warcry cut the trail.

It seems obvious the game will focus on the new special teams created just for the game, like the ones in the box, and the compendium teams won't be the same at all. Just look how almost every model in the Kommando and Krieg kill teams are some kind of specialist and it's own selection, the other factions have no specialists. Regular guard just have guardsman and scion. It seems even more pronounced than the difference between the actual warcry warbands, and the rules they put out for people to use their existing models in warcry if they want.

 Albino Squirrel wrote:
It seems obvious the game will focus on the new special teams created just for the game, like the ones in the box, and the compendium teams won't be the same at all. Just look how almost every model in the Kommando and Krieg kill teams are some kind of specialist and it's own selection, the other factions have no specialists. Regular guard just have guardsman and scion. It seems even more pronounced than the difference between the actual warcry warbands, and the rules they put out for people to use their existing models in warcry if they want.

Yes. I think you hit it. I am still going to grab the game but I’ll wait to start Sisters or a Genestealer Cult until they get their own bespoke rules. Seems like a weird, missed opportunity but I imagine there are financial reasons that make sense internally. It does hurt the viability of the game as a competitor in the sci-fi skirmish market. Infinity and Osprey don’t do this nonsense.

Apple fox wrote:I think it’s more likely that management at GW thought of kill team as a bridge to 40k. And when seeing that many players never want to bridge into 40k as the main game.
They pushed for a alternative that they could continue to monetise.

I think if speculated I think they will just cause more issues if too many teams are effectively left in the dust.
Right now Eldar is looking a bit meh, Tau maybe better. But I hope demons is not half assed again.

Proper Space Marines are absent.

Albino Squirrel wrote:It seems obvious the game will focus on the new special teams created just for the game, like the ones in the box, and the compendium teams won't be the same at all. Just look how almost every model in the Kommando and Krieg kill teams are some kind of specialist and it's own selection, the other factions have no specialists. Regular guard just have guardsman and scion. It seems even more pronounced than the difference between the actual warcry warbands, and the rules they put out for people to use their existing models in warcry if they want.

I think that's a given. GW will drip-feed KT as much as they can, and it will make them a pile of money. People gotta get their fix of Citadel plastic.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Also may be important to note that AoS stuff seems to be the test ground for 40k to an extent.

Scaled down core rules? AoS did it first.
Dice pool for BsF? Silver Tower was first.
Dedicated and different skirmish rules? Warcry cut the trail.

Which is actually a good thing if WarCry's the way we will be going.

So far, we have Kommandos and Veteran Guardsmen as "dedicated Kill Teams". Kommandos still make an appearance in the Greenskins Kill Team setup(they use the old models for the photos, but that might mean nothing since the actual Ork codex does the same thing for the profile despite it having the Distraction Grot and Breaching Ram) while Veteran Guardsmen don't(but the Guard KT page is pretty underwhelming just showing Scions and Guardsmen) in the Guard one.

I wouldn't be shocked if there's going to be a "Specialist Kill Team" for each faction. Could see Marines getting a "10th Company", consisting of Phobos and Scouts. Craftworlds getting an "Outcasts" of Rangers and some Ranger adjacent stuff(Corsairs even!). Drukhari getting Mandrakes. Tyranids getting a Vanguard Organisms.

 privateer4hire wrote:
Also may be important to note that AoS stuff seems to be the test ground for 40k to an extent.

Scaled down core rules? AoS did it first.
Dice pool for BsF? Silver Tower was first.
Dedicated and different skirmish rules? Warcry cut the trail.

A very good observation.

Just out of curiousity, was AoS: Skirmish released before KT'18?

SamusDrake wrote:

 privateer4hire wrote:
Also may be important to note that AoS stuff seems to be the test ground for 40k to an extent.

Scaled down core rules? AoS did it first.
Dice pool for BsF? Silver Tower was first.
Dedicated and different skirmish rules? Warcry cut the trail.

A very good observation.

Just out of curiousity, was AoS: Skirmish released before KT'18?

According to board game geek AoS skirmish was 2017 release.
I never played AoS skirmish. Is it similar at all to KT 18?


https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/227725/warhammer-age-sigmar-skirmish

Not in any meaningful way, no.

Skirmish was a lead-in to Shadespire, effectively. It was also pretty shoddy.

 privateer4hire wrote:

According to board game geek AoS skirmish was 2017 release.
I never played AoS skirmish. Is it similar at all to KT 18?

Cheers for that.

Only similar in that both AoS:Skirmish and Kill Team'18 were both skirmish gateways to AoS and 40K, while using simplified rules; for example, each unit moves individually.

Also, both were designed to have either less or no dependecy on their parent games. AoS: Skirmish would only need the free download rules(for AoS), a battletome and the latest General's Handbook for points, which eventually was not required due to the introduction of an online warscroll feature. The following year, KT'18 only required the single purchase of the core manual despite datasheets, tactics and rules being almost identical to 40K itself.

That said, I had flicked through the Shadow War Armageddon manual and had mixed feelings as to whether it was a test bed for either Necromunda or Kill Team...maybe both? Maybe AoS:Skirmish was just an attempt to bring skirmish play to AoS and thats all there was to it, perhaps having no influence to the following KT edition at all.