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Skirmish didn't require anything but the free download rules and the book. They used a "Renown" system in lieu of points. You could easily convert points into Renown for things that weren't covered.
Bluntly, it really amounted to nothing but a print test done at a time when they were starting to gear up for making Path to Glory(which is in every single army book for AOS...sound familiar?). It's notable in that it was printed in the UK and was our lead-in for the lore of Shadespire, but aside from that...it's dumpster fodder.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 18:59:39
Skirmish was a lead-in to Shadespire, effectively. It was also pretty shoddy.
Yeah, it certainly wasn't as solid a product as KT'18 was on the 40K front, nor the following Warcry or Underworlds, but it was good enough for small and fun games of AoS inbetween larger battles. For a couple of quid it was good value.
Although its something I wish they would update, it is at least still compatible with 3rd edition and sold on Warhammer Digitial.
My enthusiasm for the new edition has drastically gone away after watching the battle report. Too much cheap cardboard trash and clutter that clearly had the bare minimum amount of art/design put into it. Activation tokens, the mission cards etc... they just look very low quality.
At least with WarCry the bespoke unit data shoots had attention paid to the theme and design. It felt very fluffy and "worldly" for the setting of the game/
Kill Team's art style just looks ugly and low-effort. A shame as I was hoping to buy the box set and compendium, but based upon the product i've seen presented I think ill just pay for the rulebooks on their own (which are also far too expensive).
I've been burned too many times before by GW upselling low-energy merchandise. No point in hoping for something to be better than what it clearly is.
* You actually measure visibility from your operative’s head, so while a shorter model might have an easier time hiding behind cover, they’ll also have a harder time seeing enemies themselves.
GW is, bafflingly, doubling down on their absolute worst game design mechanic, which is using TLOS. Just primes every game for litigation over what constitutes "part" of a model and blah, blah. A shame.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 19:40:45
A model that is crouched on one knee is ALWAYS crouched on one knee. They do not stand to shoot, climb, signal allies, or any other tasks. They remain consistently at that level for the duration of any conflict.
Well, their head does at least.
Come to think of it a raised wall that that blocks LoS above 1" or so would be great for a short team; their head height would be low enough to draw LoS but taller models behind the same terrain would be unable to shoot (but still could be shot at).
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/11 20:39:07
NinthMusketeer wrote: A model that is crouched on one knee is ALWAYS crouched on one knee. They do not stand to shoot, climb, signal allies, or any other tasks. They remain consistently at that level for the duration of any conflict.
Well, their head does at least.
Come to think of it a raised wall that that blocks LoS above 1" or so would be great for a short team; their head height would be low enough to draw LoS but taller models behind the same terrain would be unable to shoot (but still could be shot at).
Clearly they have a very bad hunch.
"Tabletop games are the only setting when a body is made more horrifying for NOT being chopped into smaller pieces."
- Jiado
I suspect that this new edition of Killteam is going to bring new faction specific killteams of all new models with a broad variety of options and the compendium is a hold me over so folks can get playing with their army right away should they so desire. Seems pretty reasonable.
Dread Master wrote: I suspect that this new edition of Killteam is going to bring new faction specific killteams of all new models with a broad variety of options and the compendium is a hold me over so folks can get playing with their army right away should they so desire. Seems pretty reasonable.
Speaking from a perspective of Warcry, there are factors that even things out. The made-for-Warcry units have their whole roster in one box and those rosters are more synergistic (within their theme) where units fill certain roles well but also overlap enough that there is room for customization.
The rules for pre-existing AoS forces are a bit more hit and miss where a lot of units are just slightly different versions of the same thing, have such a specialized use as to be useless, and have far more dud abilities. However, this is counteracted by how many units are available. The made-for factions need a lot of depth in one box because that is all they have, whereas a full army has a massive amount of units to potentially draw from. The depth is more artfully executed for the former (it should be; those units were made specifically for Warcry) but the game experience for the latter is still good.
How much this will translate to Kill Team, we'll see.
Dread Master wrote: I suspect that this new edition of Killteam is going to bring new faction specific killteams of all new models with a broad variety of options and the compendium is a hold me over so folks can get playing with their army right away should they so desire. Seems pretty reasonable.
And when every other faction receives their shiny new kit, one group of players will look up at GW like Oliver asking for more...
"Please James Workshop...may we have some new Craftworld models?"
...the answer will be...
"No, I'm sorry; You'll have to wait your turn...now run along. Ah! Space Marine players rejoice! You asked for Primaris Lieutenants and your prayers have been answered in the new exciting expansion...KILL TEAM: LIEUTENANTS!"
* You actually measure visibility from your operative’s head, so while a shorter model might have an easier time hiding behind cover, they’ll also have a harder time seeing enemies themselves.
What is this s***?
TLOS is only a problem with jerky opponents.
If the ratling sniper wants to not be seen, he can more readily find completely obscuring cover.
Of course, if he wants to shoot, he’s going to have to move out of cover enough to be targeted himself.
There wouldn't be any problems with true line of sight if all of the models were fixed in comparable poses.
The problem with true line of sight is that it's what creates the eternal problem that 40k has with modeling for advantage.
I mean, heck, what use does a model with only melee weapons have for better line of sight in this sort of game? If you don't need line of sight to charge or make a melee attack, then the shorter your model is the better--all being tall does is make you easier to see.
"It's entirely thematic (with no ulterior motivation) that this entire box of daemonettes is modeled with them doing the limbo."
kirotheavenger wrote: Neither Titanicus, Necromunda, Warcry, nor Blood Bowl follows that "primarily box game" approach, and Aeronautica only half follows it.
Although all of those games started as a single box set that expanded beyond that.
So I don't think it's logical to assume that at all.
Well, Titanicus, Aeronautica, Necromunda, and Blood Bowl are all Forgeworld/Specialist Games. Games like Warcry, Kill Team, the Horus Heresy boxed games, Warhammer Quest, etc. come from the Publications team, which is a separate org. There is an evident difference in approach to the products/games produced by the two teams. The Specialist team is selling you a game with rulebooks and minis to expand onto it at your leisure. The Publications team is selling you a product in a box, which they will expand upon generally with other products in a box. Even when they do release standalone books, they are marketed more as an optional expansion to the core rules (i.e. you don't *have* to use Kill Team Commanders or Kill Team Elites, its an optional expansion similar to how you don't *have* to use the Ambull in Blackstone Fortress, its an optional expansion) rather than an intrinsic extension of the core rules (you don't have to buy a warmonger titan if you don't want to, but its universally expected that your opponent have a right to use it if it fits within the points scale of the game because it is an official core aspect of the rules, similar to how you don't have to buy a space marines codex if you play Necrons, but its universally expected that your opponent have a right to use an army built from the space marine codex because its an official core aspect of the rules).
That said, I had flicked through the Shadow War Armageddon manual and had mixed feelings as to whether it was a test bed for either Necromunda or Kill Team...maybe both? Maybe AoS:Skirmish was just an attempt to bring skirmish play to AoS and thats all there was to it, perhaps having no influence to the following KT edition at all.
Probably neither. James M Hewitt has explained that Shadow War Armageddon was released separately by the Publications team while he was working on Necromunda with the Specialist team. He said there was no consultation or cross-communication between himself and the Shadow War team, but that they were fully aware that he was working on Necromunda at the time. He says he doesn't know *why* they would release Shadow War Armageddon, but he has inferred that it was probably the result of parochialism, hurt feelings, or inter-departmental politics as they rushed to release Shadow War out basically using the original Necromunda ruleset with few (if any) real modifications while he was working on the ground-up rewrite of the Necromunda rules. IIRC I think James alluded to the idea that the manager of the publications team was someone who may have worked on Necromunda in the past or something to that effect and felt like they should have been the one to revive Necromunda as a game, and when they were passed up they leveraged their position (and probably personal relationships with higher managers, etc.) to produce Shadow War out of spite in an effort to undercut Necromunda. I cant find the longer interview/q&a/explanation he gave on it, but this is one of the times he mentioned it on twitter: https://twitter.com/lagoon83/status/1417956999661342731?s=20
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
The symbols instead of... just putting numbers seems truly baffling. Terrain/movement rules seem needlessly clunky. Lack of points and any real crunchiness when it comes to customization, the models are nice.
The thing is, when I think of a version of kill team I'd like to play, the main thing that comes to mind is wagear and customization. Think xcom or fallout tactics. I want the trade of to be detail and customization. The matched play for this looks really boring, like playing xcom with stock units from an rts that you can't really change or customize. I don't just mean this person has a sniper rifle, this person has a medic kit, I mean a lot more than that, wyswyg on crack.
This is also the other problem with the spec ops team framing, it works better for some factions than others. Nothing wrong with a nid or cron kill team but as you move towards the factions that have less and less characterization/individuality its harder to make the spec ops team thing work. But lack of points is big turn off.
If people want campaigns/narrative I'd think they'd gravitate towards necromunda or already be playing it, one of the weakness of necromunda is matched play.
Kill team if anything should have had a really strong match play to set it apart further from nercromunda, hell someone is going to mod the narrative stuff with points just to make match play more interesting because the amount of kills it seems to take to get to veteran and so on would require more games ala campagin/narrative than people who only have time for matched play could ever hope to have, also because of the blander compendium stuff that all hats to wait for less bland dlc.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/12 01:34:39
I was really excited for the new kill team, but dipped once I saw bespoke kill teams, no points, and no grey knight termies.
‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley
TheBestBucketHead wrote: I was really excited for the new kill team, but dipped once I saw bespoke kill teams, no points, and no grey knight termies.
Grey Knight Terminators will likely be added in Elites.
The Bespoke Kill teams are actually boxes of normal troop units (krieg guardsmen and ork kommandos) that happen to have a lot of extra customization bits and options that make them ideal for Kill Team.
Points have been replaced with the 'Fire Team' system, which is thorough enough to not need points, because things like chaff are baked in.
The bespoke kill teams mean it's harder to mix. Space marines have 1 team, iirc, so even if termies are added, mixing will be impossible.
I don't care if termies will be added later. Might buy it then.
If they add a points system, because I enjoy total customization.
Though, my ideal skirmish system is a system where troopers buy stats and equipment from a list where eveything costs points, instead of being locked to certain models. I don't expect anyone to be able to make that balanced, though.
Current kill team just seems boring to me, and I'm not interested at all.
‘What Lorgar’s fanatics have not seen is that these gods are nothing compared to the power and the majesty of the Machine-God. Already, members of our growing cult are using the grace of the Omnissiah – the true Omnissiah, not Terra’s false prophet – to harness the might of the warp. Geller fields, warp missiles, void shields, all these things you are familiar with. But their underlying principles can be turned to so much more. Through novel exploitations of these technologies we will gain mastery first over the energies of the empyrean, then over the lesser entities, until finally the very gods themselves will bend the knee and recognise the supremacy of the Machine-God"
- Heretek Ardim Protos in Titandeath by Guy Haley
I think we are going to see how well it all fits together when we see if the compendium is more than just a hold over.
Since it’s all good and well to add new units, but if the fire team systems is too limiting for some factions.
It may end up not worth playing some factions again.
Eldar rangers are a big one, I would very much like to run just one. I don’t want to use up half my team allotment for them.
There is also a few ballance oddity haven’t really been addressed at all yet. That if GW don’t have fixes then I suspect it won’t be as balanced as a point system would have been anyway.
That strafing run is good, without it the Krieg's would have lost even worse. Rokkit boy seems strong as well.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
EDIT: Someone else made GSC from the Krieg as well
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/08/12 06:33:05
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
In fact, this launch box will be followed up with major new releases every quarter – alongside substantial additional support in places like White Dwarf. In other words, there’s a lot more in the tank.
These new releases will advance the ongoing narrative both in War Zone: Octarius and elsewhere, shining a spotlight on the elite operatives battling it out across the galaxy.
We can’t tell you too much more right now, but you can expect a conveyor belt of new kill teams with plenty of customisable options.
Kill Team: Octarius features an amazing array of terrain, which can be used to create an Ork scrap town for your operatives to fight for control of. But the 41st Millennium is full of wild and exotic battlefields, from soaring cathedrals raised in the name of the God-Emperor to dense jungles where even the plants can be more deadly than enemy warriors. Each quarter, Kill Team will visit a different corner of the galaxy and explore that setting and the battles that are fought there.
I wonder if someone put up an old graphic by the time Octarius is actually released July and August will be gone leaving 1 month until the next set? And will these be £125 a quarter?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/12 12:27:16
