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drbored wrote:
tbh the reason you don't hear much about AT from AT fans is because they're too busy building, painting, and playing AT.

It's a really good game with really good models, there's no impetus for them to come onto the forums and complain about a game that's genuinely really good. There was also a much more trusted rumormonger that suggested AT was one of the best-selling specialist games that GW has, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

Unlike other specialist games that need a small number of models like Blood Bowl and Necromunda, AT is a bit unique in that to get a proper sizeable force, you really do have to spend a pretty penny, but those pennies are going to gorgeous models that make fantastic maniples with balanced powers, flavorful legios, and fun stratagems that reward skillful play. There are a few issues keeping the game from perfect balance, but many AT players aren't the grindy competitive type, so it's easy enough to say "Yeah, maybe that Legio + Stratagem is too OP, just don't use that next time".

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

No true scotsman (at fan) basically. So glad a "real" AT fan managed to materialize from the aether with gifts of enlightenment. Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it? Why can't I get cards? Why can't I buy a thick card warmaster terminal? Help me understand, oh wise one


As for the epic thing, how exactly is any of this costing gw a dime seeing as it's a market they've clearly moved out of some time ago, the last epic model was a long time ago. Won't both getting into an ip battle, but to me it's pretty simple, the only someone is stealing from gw is if they currently make and sell the model in question, otherwise it's patently absurd. I couldn't give gw money for epic models right now if I wanted to.


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 Dysartes wrote:

drbored wrote:
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.

Absolutely, if gw doesn't want to make lucius pattern titans, I'll find someone who will. The lucius pattern "war dog" is so common the 2018 group had to change their stance on 3d printing because they basically were kicking everyone out for wanting to build and paint new models that gw was not selling.


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drbored wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

drbored wrote:
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.

From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.

How? How many lucius warlord or warhound sales did gw lose out on? It's no one's fault but gw that 3rd party's are eating their lunch seeing as they leave about 90% on the table.


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 Albertorius wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

drbored wrote:
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.

From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.

You might have a point if GW had a product line. Or a game.

It has neither, and most Epic players don't give a rat's ass if GW makes a new game called Epic or not. Because yes, they are already being catered to. Just not by GW.

100%

Even if GW got back in, they'd probably buy the models and leave the books on the store shelves to collect dust. The existence of so-so 3d models for a thunderhawk is still out done by an excellent thunderhawk model from gw. Make cool stuff, people will buy it.


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 Overread wrote:
Considering how many in the 3D print market chase copy-cat designs of GW stuff - I'd wager if GW released official new Epic models there'd be a healthy market

The whole idea of 3D printing replacing GW is - false to my mind. The only way they replace right now for the majority is the same way that 3rd parties have always replaced GW - by providing a secondary shop experience that sells models.

3D printing at home is a small thing right now. Growing yes, by all means its growing fast, but its still niche. The process isn't clean, super safe, simple nor is it suited to young teenagers.

Heck even many people who are interested are sometimes locked out because they don't have a shed/room/place to put the printer to work safely.




Heck with the wait to print and the clean up its sometimes nice to just get some good old plastic models to clean up and play with.

In the end 3D printing presents options and choices but GW would still dominate the market if they released a model line for Epic. Which is honestly what we should hope is the case for ANY model manufacturer coming to the market. The last thing we should want is a structure that destroys the chances for companies to make viable model lines and games

I agree most people just want a store front with affordable 3d printed models/bits/accessories. I have a friend with some printers, but I've seen the work that goes into it and it's to your point pretty involved, it's not quite there yet as a "consumer product", there's a lot to learn and a lot of funny smells and ancillary gear to help with curing/wash ect. But I think we all see the potential. And this I hope is something that may put pressure on GW to drop some of their more unlikeable sales tactics. Right off the bat, when someone can just make almost an entire epic army on a plate or two, if they take the time it can be the exact composition of a list they came up with, with no extra models or waste. This kind of print on demand stuff, I would hope would keep gw "honest" if they decide to dip their toes back into epic. But I also think, the kind of support it would need just on the imperial side of things, I don't think they'd commit enough to it. The aeronautica models are great, but it's not like there's hundreds of them.


Path of least resistance, but 3d printing at the scale of epic really is something that can keep gw's ambitions and costs in check. Stuff like only including 1 of x weapon in order to make you buy more boxes of a unit, they can't keep doing that while bitching about 3d printers eating their lunch. The FW stuff is a good example, having to get 9 armigers (3 sets) just to field a legal unit with the weapons you actually want. Even the plastic knight kit, comes with a whopping 1 of every gun, again forcing players to buy like 3 boxes, more than they'll ever run, just to be able to run a unit with the same weapon.


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SamusDrake wrote:
Apparently there is something called "honour banners" in next month's White Dwarf. The suspense is already killing me...

...oh wait, its literally how to make banners for titans. Nothing to do with Knight banners at all.

I kinda wish it was an actual set of banners. I've seen some titans with banners and they look great. It's kinda nuts that we've never seen a sprue or kit dedicated to just adding little details to titans.

There’s no reason for GW to relaunch Epic as a game. Instead, they can just continue designing Epic-compatible models for other games on their own terms. No need to worry about having complete lines and huge numbers of SKUs, X number of factions, designing for both new and existing players, doing rules support going forward etc.

I think we’ll see other factions for AT before GW gets back into the business of making little tiny guardsmen and Russes and Chimeras and Hydras and Basilisks and Manticores etc. Their business is about making larger plastic kits where their capabilities can really shine.

SamusDrake wrote:
Apparently there is something called "honour banners" in next month's White Dwarf. The suspense is already killing me...

...oh wait, its literally how to make banners for titans. Nothing to do with Knight banners at all.

Wait, so a tutorial for how fans can create their own banners? Not directly trying to sell a banner? I am actually mindblown here!

 Crablezworth wrote:

drbored wrote:
tbh the reason you don't hear much about AT from AT fans is because they're too busy building, painting, and playing AT.

It's a really good game with really good models, there's no impetus for them to come onto the forums and complain about a game that's genuinely really good. There was also a much more trusted rumormonger that suggested AT was one of the best-selling specialist games that GW has, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

Unlike other specialist games that need a small number of models like Blood Bowl and Necromunda, AT is a bit unique in that to get a proper sizeable force, you really do have to spend a pretty penny, but those pennies are going to gorgeous models that make fantastic maniples with balanced powers, flavorful legios, and fun stratagems that reward skillful play. There are a few issues keeping the game from perfect balance, but many AT players aren't the grindy competitive type, so it's easy enough to say "Yeah, maybe that Legio + Stratagem is too OP, just don't use that next time".

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

no true scotsman (at fan) basically. So glad a "real" AT managed to materialize from the aether with gifts of enlightenment. Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it? Why can't I get cards? Why can't I buy a thick card warmaster terminal? Help me understand, oh wise one


As for the epic thing, how exactly is any of this costing gw a dime seeing as it's a market they've clearly moved out of some time ago, the last epic model was a long time ago. Won't both getting into an ip battle, but to me it's pretty simple, the only someone is stealing from gw is if they currently make and sell the model in question, otherwise it's patently absurd. I couldn't give gw money for epic models right now if I wanted to.

Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.

GW has issues printing cardboard? You don't say. Gosh, I wonder where I can get tactics cards for Necromunda, or terrain cards for Warcry, or any of the previous game boards that they've ever printed ever. That's just an issue with GW as a whole, not exclusively to Titanicus. Also, they ARE putting work into Titanicus. Did you miss the two gigantic Warmaster titans that came out not long ago? The tiny adorable Armigers? The Dire Wolf? The Traitor Legios book that just came out consolidating a ton of rules into one tome so you don't have to go back and dig through a half dozen other books to find your one legio, but that also includes MORE and new information so that you don't feel like you just bought the same thing twice?

And the idea is that the market for epic models is already saturated by other sorts of things, ala 3d printing. Why would GW make a game for something where players can already print what they want? Where's the money for GW to make? It's not the only reason they might not do Epic, but it's gotta be on their minds.

Have I cleared up a few things for you? I am pretty wise after all. In fact, they say my butt is the wisest part of me. They call me a wise-arse quite a bit after all.

drbored wrote:
Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.

That's my experience with basically any game. Because usually when people is playing they don't complain about the game, they play the game. And the amount of people who go to the internet and talk about a game is stupidly low when compared with the amount of people who don't.

So you could say this about every single GW game (or non-GW to be frank) and it would amount to the same.

 Crablezworth wrote:
Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?

GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.

This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.

It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.

All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

 Malika2 wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Apparently there is something called "honour banners" in next month's White Dwarf. The suspense is already killing me...

...oh wait, its literally how to make banners for titans. Nothing to do with Knight banners at all.

Wait, so a tutorial for how fans can create their own banners? Not directly trying to sell a banner? I am actually mindblown here!

It's probably just rules for banners with a handful of photos that probably aren't current, maybe it will be interesting, maybe it will be rules clutter. I hope I'm wrong and it's a brand new plastic banner kit, but I'm no true at fan, alas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:


Have I cleared up a few things for you?

Nope.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:

drbored wrote:
Show me an AT fan complaining about AT and I'll show you two having a fun game with beautifully built and painted models. That's my experience, anyway.

That's my experience with basically any game. Because usually when people is playing they don't complain about the game, they play the game. And the amount of people who go to the internet and talk about a game is stupidly low when compared with the amount of people who don't.

So you could say this about every single GW game (or non-GW to be frank) and it would amount to the same.

And if this site was solely dedicated to photos of two men across a table from one another enjoying themselves and not also discussion I'd say that was a useful contribution. I would simply profer one can enjoy something intensely and passionately while also being critical of it. Tired of the no true at fan, if it's so great why does the fair maiden of at require one to defend it's honour, should one not be off somewhere in total bliss rolling dice and enjoying it in it's immaculate perfection?


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 schoon wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?

GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.

This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.

It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.

And is that still the right approach with 3d printing where its at? IP is a less and less useful thing if you don't actually make stuff with it, someone else will. And they'll call it laser chicken and get away with it.

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well it's a shame, there's always taiwan west I guess.

drbored wrote:

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?

These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW

 Crablezworth wrote:


It's probably just rules for banners with a handful of photos that probably aren't current, maybe it will be interesting, maybe it will be rules clutter. I hope I'm wrong and it's a brand new plastic banner kit, but I'm no true at fan, alas.

Nope, its going to be a Blue Peter job from what they said. Better start stocking up on your empty loo rolls, Crablezworth!

 Malika2 wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
Just let the indie scene take over!

Here here!
Blood Bowl, Necromunda, Epic survived many years without any official support. Blood Bowl was having tournaments with hundreds of players in Europe more than a decade after official support for it had stopped. Thanks to the internet communities a lot of them have never been stronger, and they will survive for many years long since the last new release from GW has passed.

Exactly! BFG is experiencing a kinda new golden age, fully carried on by the indie scene and fans!

Yeah, at this point I think theres more people playing BFG now than there were when the game was alive. I assume because the BFG computer games were popular and reached new audiences who may not have been familiar with it previously or didn't realize how cool spaceship battles could be, but also because the community editions of the game that are gaining in popularity patch and fix many of the failings of the original game.

 Crablezworth wrote:


Everyone forgets to that GW needed to be basically shamed into selling the warlord weapon arms sprues.

They promised us that they would sell the weapons separately before they ever even released product for the game, so I'm not sure this is accurate. The "shaming" you are describing is because when they did release the second warlord titan with the variant weapons, they didn't immediately also make the stand-alone weapons sprue available and the community reacted badly to that, but that doesn't mean that GW wasn't already planning on releasing it (again, we knew that they would, they told us as much from the beginning), just that they didn't do so immediately. That was a big part of the outrage, actually -- "YOU PROMISED US YOU WOULD RELEASE THE WEAPONS SEPARATELY! WHERE ARE THEY? YOU BETTER NOT BE RENEGING ON THE DEAL, GIVE THEM TO US NOW!" moreso than "WHAT, YOU MEAN I HAVE TO BUY A WHOLE NEW TITAN TO GET THOSE PLASMA CANNONS?"

drbored wrote:

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

*Insert "why would you say something so controversial yet so brave" gif here*

 Albertorius wrote:

drbored wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

drbored wrote:
The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

...from what I keep seeing in this thread, there's a chunk of the AT "community" in that same (3D-printed) boat, drbored.

From what I've seen of that 3d printed community, AT peeps use it to swap out armor panels and create base decorations. Whereas with Epic, 3d printing literally undermines the entire product line.

You might have a point if GW had a product line. Or a game.
It has neither, and most Epic players don't give a rat's ass if GW makes a new game called Epic or not. Because yes, they are already being catered to. Just not by GW.

In which case theres no reason for GW to step into that market, and the Epic crowd should stop calling on them to do so.

chaos0xomega wrote:
In which case theres no reason for GW to step into that market, and the Epic crowd should stop calling on them to do so.

I'm Ok with that.

And still... when GW has released titans and planes at that scale, suddenly a lot of Epic players are buying them and fielding them. So maybe, just maybe, if they released actual product it would sell.

They can stay away from the game, though .

 Pacific wrote:

drbored wrote:

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?

These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW

Like I said, I suspect that GW is happy to produce (and sell you, LOL) Epic-compatible miniatures without the hassle of creating and fully supporting a new Epic game.

 gorgon wrote:

 Pacific wrote:

drbored wrote:

The Epic crowd, meanwhile, just wants to 3d print a bunch of leman russes and baneblades and play a game using GW rules and GW support but without paying GW a dime for the models they'd make.
(Yes I know this is hyperbolic, but from the few epic players I've met, this was really their entire desire).

Please tell me where it is possible to get new Games Workshop miniatures and give them money. I gave hundreds of £ back in the 90s for 2nd edition Space Marine if that counts?

These days I support companies that are keeping the game going with proxy miniatures (Vanguard and Onslaught miniatures etc.)
Although I do actually buy AT titans for Epic, as I know a lot of Epic players do, so we are not all bottom-feeding parasites stealing from the blessed teat of mother GW

Like I said, I suspect that GW is happy to produce (and sell you, LOL) Epic-compatible miniatures without the hassle of creating and fully supporting a new Epic game.

I would definitely be happy with that!

Think anything that got more people playing what is IMO one of the greatest games GW has ever made, in God's own scale, can only be a good thing!

Let them call it "AT Base Decoration sets" or "AI Ground Assets sets" and be done with it

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.

 gorgon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.

It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.

Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.

From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.

 Togusa wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.

It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.

Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.

From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.

In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.

Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.

Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.

All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.

drbored wrote:
Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.

All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.

I hope that's true. I really do.

 Crablezworth wrote:

drbored wrote:
Anyway, terrain for Titanicus has been intermittently available, and my local GW manager suggested it might just be reboxing or preparing for a new edition.

All things considered, AT has been out for long enough that they might try to put out a new box set (ala necromunda where they refresh the core book) or a new edition, and they may be repacking a lot of the terrain to prepare for that.

I hope that's true. I really do.

Or hey, could be rebranding it all to Epic terrain! Who knows?

Like cardboard, GW has an issue with consistency with terrain. So much simply goes the way of the dodo with no warning or pattern.

 Lord of Deeds wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.

It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.

Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.

From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.

In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.

Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.

Feels that way sadly. The dire wolf release does not give hope, it makes rumours of it running out of steam seem true and things like exciting plastic future releases seem a bit "dire" . (stolen joke )

 Lord of Deeds wrote:
In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.

Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.

I wouldn't put too much stock in (pun intended) the "no longer available" message. That's just GW's gakky system. Lots of things have been listed as such and then been reboxed and restocked. I don't know why they don't change the wording on those to something less prone to cause panic. Although I think players are much too nervous about the future of a game that's sold very well.

 gorgon wrote:
I don't know why they don't change the wording on those to something less prone to cause panic.

Their entire business model/practice is built of fomo and fake scarcity, this is the inherent problem GW faces going into a future of 3d printing and scarcity only in the sense of running out of resin.

It's not really that defensible outside of limited edition codex's or whatever either, it only fuels price gouging on ebay for at times things some deem essential to enjoyment, like open engine war cards.

I'd love to think their communication will get better when reboxing or temporary supply chain issues disrupt what's available on their site, but, I'm not hopeful.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 schoon wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:
Question, if the game is a winner for GW, why are they putting fewer and fewer resources into it?

GW made the business decision, for AT as well as quite a few of their other "small print run games," that they didn't want to carry stock for anything but a few core items. Everything else they would print only enough to meet initial demand.

This prevents them from having to stock too many SKUs and deal with excess inventory, which can be a real problem with smaller game lines. This is a common practice in other industries as well.

It was bad enough that they started to gain a reputation for not even fulfilling pre-orders, and thus their recent promises on some game lines to ensure that all initial orders will be filled.

And is that still the right approach with 3d printing where its at? IP is a less and less useful thing if you don't actually make stuff with it, someone else will. And they'll call it laser chicken and get away with it.

As odd as it may sound, yes.

By not overproducing and keeping inventory low, they avoid the costly cash flow mistakes that sink many hobby producers. It allows them to continue investing in new content as opposed to getting rid of stale inventory.

Is it also annoying to experience as a customer when so much of the line is out of stock - oh yeah, very.

But it ought to put them on good footing to keep producing new stuff, so long as they keep selling out of the releases they don't want to stock.

 Crablezworth wrote:

 Lord of Deeds wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
All of the FW terrain has gone sold out over the weekend. Getting access to official terrain is becoming more and more difficult and that scares me.

Damn it this is a damn good game.

Same on the UK. Looks like they're discontinuing the resin terrain.

Well, you can blame me, since I never bought any of it. Always seemed pricey for terrain that looked to be 1" high and more table decoration than game-influencing.

It was modular so you needed to buy multiple kits to build stuff up and out. I am not sure it's gone forever. The basic terrain is a full plastic kit, there is no way they'd retire that mold after just 4 years. The resin stuff I understand, and may be gone for good but I am wondering if we're about to see an announcement of a second edition of the game, reboxings and the inevitable Imperator Titan kit launch? It's been about four years since the game launched now, almost. So it follows the normal GW edition change time.

Last I heard the game does quite well, it's no power house like 40K or AoS, but if AI is still going, no way AT won't be still good.

From what I can tell, the AT community seems to be leaning towards reboxing or new edition.

In the GW US webstore, only one of the three kits are currently in stock, with the Civitas Imperialis, arguably the base set, is listed as no longer available online. But these terrain kits being withdrawn don't concern me to much as there are plenty of 3rd party options for AT scale terrain.

Regardless, I feel there is more evidence that AT and AI are not likely to see any new product support after GW's current fiscal year ends and may possibly be dropped before GW's 2023 fiscal year ends.

Feels that way sadly. The dire wolf release does not give hope, it makes rumours of it running out of steam seem true and things like exciting plastic future releases seem a bit "dire" . (stolen joke )

I don't understand this sentiment. Titanicus is a specialist game, and like many specialist games a lot of times they have stretches of not a lot going on between big hype releases. Look at Underworlds right now. New edition, yet it's been a seriously slow-burner. The new 'rivals' format (which, how they explain it, makes not a lick of sense) is DOA.

Necromunda goes long stretches with not a lot. Blood Bowl goes even longer stretches with a whole lotta nothing. Warcry is getting a book and a reboxing of a bunch of kits that already exist.

Heck, GW is even struggling to release AoS and 40k stuff in due time. I really don't see a difference with Titanicus' releases: they try to put out things when they can, all of the pandemic stuff and supply issues considered.

This whole 'sky is falling and [enter specialist game here] is dying!' mentality is nonsensical.

I agree. The laments (both the "AT is dying " and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.

The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.

Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.

JWBS wrote:
I agree. The laments (both the "AT is dying " and the "NEED MORE STUFF NOW!!!") are both, at a minimum, quite foolish if not just straight up hysterical.

You know, hysteria is a great way of descricibing the emotional overreaction "real" at fans seem to feel if anything but praise is levied towards the game or its maker.

"hys·te·ri·a
/həˈstirēə,həˈsterēə/

PSYCHIATRY

a psychological disorder (not now regarded as a single definite condition) whose symptoms include conversion of psychological stress into physical symptoms (somatization), selective amnesia, shallow volatile emotions, and overdramatic or attention-seeking behavior. The term has a controversial history as it was formerly regarded as a disease specific to women."

I don't think one or two people on dakka saying they believe a the rumour to be true to be some sort of mark of disrespect. It's just an opinion. One supported with examples and evidence, nothing to get bent out of shape over. I'm sure the dire wolf cast photos will give us all sorts of things to argue over soon enough.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Albertorius wrote:
The part that doesn't feel sustainable, honestly, is FW.

Their "boutique" resin minis are... crap quality, most of the time, crappier both the smaller AND the bigger you go. If they swapped out completely to GW-owned local(ish) printing hubs for all their FW catalogue, they would probably be much better off, and they'd avoid most of their current quality problems. Plus, they wouldn't need to worry anymore about stock, as it would be a PoD operation. And of course, shipping costs should be much smaller too.

That's sorta my issue, there seems to be a rather large amount of AT stuff relegated to resin and as stated the QA on the models is all over the place. That doesn't bode well for future resin released, I as someone who until a few pages ago considered myself an at fan, I now realize im simply an imposter it would seem, all the same I'd prefer everything in plastic, I'd like to think I'm not alone in that sentiment, but what do I know


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:

This whole 'sky is falling and [enter specialist game here] is dying!' mentality is nonsensical.

Probably best to keep engaging with it then, I guess.






Has anyone heard anything yet about the banners in the next white dwarf? Dare we get our collective hopes up for physical component or will it be just rules? Anyone care to speculate?