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Then drop that Kharybdis on the corpse-botherers like a 16t weight

I agree! Now, do I shove it full of Terminators or CSM? Or Possessed? Hmmm Possessed....

Well, Terminators can nuke something on arrival. Pretty good chance of getting in Melta range, too, with none of the risks of Termicide. Just got to look out for Plasma squads.

I'll be putting Berzerkers in mine, but that's just for the Fist Of Khorne formation.

As World Eaters? A Large CSM squad for sure.

Drop, leave them inside all safe and snug then on the next turn charge in.
Attach a Lord/Apostle/Warpsmith or some combination of the above and go even wilder (Warpsmith for being able to guarentee who gets nom'd, Apostle for a nice Hatred buff and you already know what the Lord is for )

 lindsay40k wrote:
I'm just running the one, mostly playing quick 1K games, but two in 2K+ looks ok. Against two Heldrakes, a single Hell Blade has still got a good chance of taking one out or crippling it in the three dogfights before any of them arrives, don't forget it gets two rolls for Engage and Manoeuvre when attacking. A pair of them should be a pretty effective air supremacy force. Hopefully it'll get Wing rules...

Oh, is that from a supplement? We don't play those rules unfortunately.

A few quick questions (IW legion):

1) What's the most effective thing to stick in a Kharybdis? Terminators, Chosen or Mutilators?

2) What about in a Spartan?

3) What if you had two Dreadclaws and wanted to run both?

4) Is it worth getting a land raider if I have the above as transport options, is one superior to any of the above?

Thanks

Chaos drop pods are good because they can move after dropping in, so they're best for things that don't normally get to drop in and say hello. CSM and Chosen can take them dedicated, drop them behind cover and them drive them out and pop out to fire away.

But if you're playing IW why not just castle up with some fortifications and fire all cannons?

 andysonic1 wrote:

But if you're playing IW why not just castle up with some fortifications and fire all cannons?

Mainly because I have the models for my heresy force so fancied using them in 40K too.

Your Mutilators will be OS, and having tank Hunters allows them to actually maybe hurt Imperial Knights kinda.

I honestly kind of like the idea of using a Grand Company to do a "max Warband" or so, and actually do a Fist of the Gods formation. I wouldn't even bother with squadrons, and would just run 3 Vindicators, 2 on opposite flanks of the battlefield, the third one given the War in the Eye Legacy of Ruin so it can Outflank.

Get some Heretech support for either POTMS or Flesh metal armor if you want but the shtick works because you're not sinking too many points into it.

Been playing around with Kill Team since there's a local campaign coming up and it starts with it. 200 point standard GW KT. World Eaters don't seem to be workin' all that well since melee is kill, and my wall of cultists can't seem to hit anything (more bad dice rolling last game then anything). Starting to wonder if I shouldn't just make an Alpha Legion infiltrating team of badasses.

Loopstah wrote:
A few quick questions (IW legion):

1) What's the most effective thing to stick in a Kharybdis? Terminators, Chosen or Mutilators?

2) What about in a Spartan?

3) What if you had two Dreadclaws and wanted to run both?

4) Is it worth getting a land raider if I have the above as transport options, is one superior to any of the above?

Thanks

The real question is whether or not you have IA:13. It's out of print, and has the 40k rules for the vehicles you mention.

The most effective thing to put in a Kharybdis is Chosen. It's nice being able to shoot plasma / melta more than once, plus you can take an autocannon. Like one of the other posters said, drop them in behind cover and use the Kharybis to attack once they have deployed.

The most effective thing to put in a Spartan is a large assault squad. The most effective tactic I have used one for is dropping a 20 man squad of Khorne Berzerkers with chainaxes in front of a Knight. It's overkill, but they will kill it and survive to carry out another assault.

If I had 2 dreadclaws, I would use one to carry a shooting unit and one to carry an assault unit, to give my deep strike balance.

It's rarely worth getting a Land Raider, especially if you have a Spartan to use instead.

If you're wanting to do the Chosen route though might as well go alpha legion or Black Legion.

 techsoldaten wrote:
The most effective thing to put in a Spartan is a large assault squad. The most effective tactic I have used one for is dropping a 20 man squad of Khorne Berzerkers with chainaxes in front of a Knight. It's overkill, but they will kill it and survive to carry out another assault.

Care to explain how Khorne Berzerkers with any upgrades besides maybe a Power Fist on the Champ would be able to handle a Knight? I don't see how Chainaxes help since ap4 doesn't do anything to vehicles. I mean, they will tie it up for a while, since they're Fearless and such; but that is one very expensive tarpit with only a marginal chance of actually bringing it down. I'd say save the pts. from the Chainaxes, drop at least one Berzerker, add a Chaos Lord with Gorefather or something like that; he can wreck a Knight. Alternatively, Kharn. You don't even really need a squad most times with him on a Knight, though it -does- help in case he doesn't drop it first turn.

I'd say with the Traitor Legion changes Berzerkers are even further down the list of things to bring to the table than they were to start with, barring a few outlying strategies. WE CSM are going to perform similarly enough and for cheaper. Or even WE Termies with Chanfists in a Spartan. While prohibitively expensive, they can certainly handle a Knight. And as long as they have a decent size, can live to do other bad things.

 techsoldaten wrote:

The real question is whether or not you have IA:13. It's out of print, and has the 40k rules for the vehicles you mention.

The most effective thing to put in a Kharybdis is Chosen. It's nice being able to shoot plasma / melta more than once, plus you can take an autocannon. Like one of the other posters said, drop them in behind cover and use the Kharybis to attack once they have deployed.

The most effective thing to put in a Spartan is a large assault squad. The most effective tactic I have used one for is dropping a 20 man squad of Khorne Berzerkers with chainaxes in front of a Knight. It's overkill, but they will kill it and survive to carry out another assault.

If I had 2 dreadclaws, I would use one to carry a shooting unit and one to carry an assault unit, to give my deep strike balance.

It's rarely worth getting a Land Raider, especially if you have a Spartan to use instead.

Yes, I have IA:13. I was planning on building a squad of Chosen with Melta and one with Plasma so it's good to know they work well in a Kharybdis.

Unfortunately I can't take Berserkers as I can't run marked units due to Iron Warriors. Would a Terminator squad with Combi-Meltas and power/ chainfists be a reasonable substitution or are Termies always better using DS?

If I run both Dreadclaws would Chosen with Melta and Chosen with LC / CC weapons be the right sort of idea?
If I ran a Chaos Warband I'd probably just stick a Chaos Marine squad in each to fit them in as DT and save myself having to take a CAD.

I figured a LR might be redundant, so have held of buying one as I'd need a Forgeworld IIB to fit in with all my Deimos vehicles and £75 is a lot for a unit of questionable use.

Loopstah wrote:
A few quick questions (IW legion):

1) What's the most effective thing to stick in a Kharybdis? Terminators, Chosen or Mutilators?

Thanks

I know these guys arent iron warriors but they can fit in pretty well in your list by saying they are mental marines. Try the fist of khorne formation from warhammer world (?). They are 20 khorne berzerkers that DS on turn 1 and can assualt 1st turn.

 -v10mega wrote:

Loopstah wrote:
A few quick questions (IW legion):

1) What's the most effective thing to stick in a Kharybdis? Terminators, Chosen or Mutilators?

Thanks

I know these guys arent iron warriors but they can fit in pretty well in your list by saying they are mental marines. Try the fist of khorne formation from warhammer world (?). They are 20 khorne berzerkers that DS on turn 1 and can assualt 1st turn.

I'm really on the fence with that formation because there are armies that make it pointless and other armies where it is invaluable. It also costs upwards of 650+ points, more if you kit out the champ with an Axe of Khorne + Icon of Wrath (don't leave home without one, trust me). To get their points back they'd need to multicharge half the opponent's army or focus one unit down and risk death in the shooting phase. Against death stars it's pretty useless unless you go before they do so they don't have a chance to put up invis. It's an amazingly FUN formation without much use.

Ya its really fun and a lot of people make have target priority nightmares with it

Has anyone had any fun with running multiple fortifications in the Iron Warriors Grand Company?

At the moment I have:

1x Bastion
2x Aegis
1x Firestorm
4x Vengeance Batteries
1x Bunker

Plus all the assorted guns + coms relay that come with them.

I'm thinking of sticking a squad of Havocs in a Firestorm with Battlecannons and a second Havoc squad on the roof, and then two sets of two Vengeance batteries with battlecannons spread out to the sides. Maybe an Ammo dump on the battlements and Ammo store in the Firestorm to give my Havocs re-rolls of 1.

Tried a couple of bastions with my iron warriors ran a sorceerer with geomancy and got the move terrain power was a load of fun

Oh my gods, that must have been hilarious! I think there's a whole thread to be had on forts + geomancy rushdown. (Elsewhere there's discussion on exploiting suicidal Horrors to create extra WC battery units - this would have very strong synergy, as three of the Geomancy powers enable you to kill your own Horrors and cause them to Split)

Tangentially relevant - can Geomancy 6 move a whole Fortress of Redemption, or will it rip out a section?

 lindsay40k wrote:
Oh my gods, that must have been hilarious! I think there's a whole thread to be had on forts + geomancy rushdown. (Elsewhere there's discussion on exploiting suicidal Horrors to create extra WC battery units - this would have very strong synergy, as three of the Geomancy powers enable you to kill your own Horrors and cause them to Split)

Tangentially relevant - can Geomancy 6 move a whole Fortress of Redemption, or will it rip out a section?

It says a terrain piece, right? I would argue that although multiple buildings, the fortress should be treated as one piece (and I mean, let's be real, doesn't it all assemble as one piece anyhow? I know my buddy's one is a solid chunk. Couldn't separate it if I tried).

It is lots of fun but if playing on a field with lots of terrain its a pita as there are restrictions on placement. But running a double flamer squad or any spec weapons is good jump over and you have the equivalent to an open topped land raider and of course as its a purchesed model its scoring as well.. you could even run a heretek sorc and if lucky make it av15...

It gets even scarier. You could fill it with ObSecBliterators, who can step out and grab objectives.

Alternatively, you could cover it with Cults of Destruction, with a Warpsmith on each Battlement repairing it every turn, and adding his Plasma Pistol to the firestorm. Warband sits inside, jumping out to ObSec.

If a Chaos Lord is manning a fortification's weapon system, is he going to get Boons when he shoots down a Flyrant or nukes an entire Tactical Squad?

Well he killed it, so yes. I suppose it's not even a bad use for all the lords we have to take in our formations.
Actually, do you have to be embarked to use the guns? Otherwise you could us ea TAF lord to fire a fortification twice XD

Has anyone been using Malefic summoning with Word Bearers yet? Passing on a 3+ is a big deal but are you seeing perils (on any double) cancelling out that benefit?

I'm considering allying in a summoning WB sorc (w/tome) + cultists with my Thousand Son list. Seems like a cheap way to buff a list if the 3+ is as good in practice as it seems on paper.

It isn't too bad. Daemons still do summoning better but if you're willing to fork out the points for a Palanquin and therefore extra wounds and don't really care about the Sorcerer surviving it works excellently.

I found there was still a heavy element of Russian Roulette. Being able to stack it with a Familiar makes mortal Sorcerors fantastic at casting the WC1 powers - 88% chance on a single dice, and low risk when you can re-roll doubles if you cast with two dice to make damned sure - and easily able to Hulk out into a Bloodthirster when they've lost a Wound and forgotten Cursed Earth. Ideally you want a DP or Palanquin if you intend to use the riskier Conjurations, as you still need to throw at least four dice if you want it to succeed.

 Elroniel wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
The most effective thing to put in a Spartan is a large assault squad. The most effective tactic I have used one for is dropping a 20 man squad of Khorne Berzerkers with chainaxes in front of a Knight. It's overkill, but they will kill it and survive to carry out another assault.

Care to explain how Khorne Berzerkers with any upgrades besides maybe a Power Fist on the Champ would be able to handle a Knight? I don't see how Chainaxes help since ap4 doesn't do anything to vehicles. I mean, they will tie it up for a while, since they're Fearless and such; but that is one very expensive tarpit with only a marginal chance of actually bringing it down. I'd say save the pts. from the Chainaxes, drop at least one Berzerker, add a Chaos Lord with Gorefather or something like that; he can wreck a Knight. Alternatively, Kharn. You don't even really need a squad most times with him on a Knight, though it -does- help in case he doesn't drop it first turn.

I'd say with the Traitor Legion changes Berzerkers are even further down the list of things to bring to the table than they were to start with, barring a few outlying strategies. WE CSM are going to perform similarly enough and for cheaper. Or even WE Termies with Chanfists in a Spartan. While prohibitively expensive, they can certainly handle a Knight. And as long as they have a decent size, can live to do other bad things.

Yes, I failed to mention it's necessary to bring Kharn to fell a knight. You are very right for pointing that out.

The point of all the Berzerkers is not just to kill a knight tho. It's to kill anything they can charge. Perfectly fine to have Kharn move away from the Berzerkers while they go after another something on the board.

Re: the chainaxes - I know they are situational, but when you get 60 or so attacks on the charge and the IG / Ork / Eldar / whatever player cannot make a save, that's actually not bad. I know this means nothing to marines, but I don't play them all the time.

Re: Zerkers v CSMs: WS5 and fearless are more useful in large numbers.






Automatically Appended Next Post:

Loopstah wrote:
Yes, I have IA:13. I was planning on building a squad of Chosen with Melta and one with Plasma so it's good to know they work well in a Kharybdis.

Good. Let me know how it works out.

Loopstah wrote:
Unfortunately I can't take Berserkers as I can't run marked units due to Iron Warriors. Would a Terminator squad with Combi-Meltas and power/ chainfists be a reasonable substitution or are Termies always better using DS?

Drat. Have you considered running World Eaters as a second detachment?

For Spartans, the operative words in the title are 'assault tank.' The transport capacity allows them to carry large squads that can overwhelm / do disordered charges / dish out a lot of hits.

The question to ask yourself about Terminators: are they going to have the killing power of a bunch of less-heavily-armored models? Because the Spartan's ceramite armor ignores melta, in all likelihood you are going to get to deliver a payload.

Loopstah wrote:
If I run both Dreadclaws would Chosen with Melta and Chosen with LC / CC weapons be the right sort of idea?

Yes. But LC Chosen are very expensive and their saves are only as good as that of a normal marine. This is one unit that really benefits from MoS and IoE - er, wait, Iron Warriors can't take that, can they?

Loopstah wrote:
If I ran a Chaos Warband I'd probably just stick a Chaos Marine squad in each to fit them in as DT and save myself having to take a CAD.

CADs are not all bad. Think about what you can / cannot do with them. ObjSec has won me a lot of games.

Loopstah wrote:
I figured a LR might be redundant, so have held of buying one as I'd need a Forgeworld IIB to fit in with all my Deimos vehicles and £75 is a lot for a unit of questionable use.

Yep. Spend wisely on these things. The Spartan has been a good tank for me since I got it a few years ago. The only times I don't bring it is when I am using my Fire Raptor.

techsoldaten, are we talking about the same World Eaters? Everything that has Veterans of the Long War has Fearless if they are a part of the World Eaters detachment, making the only thing Berzerkers do better than CSM just WS5, meaning you're paying, what, 6? points extra per model for +1 WS. CSM can take Flamers and Melta Guns with those saved points. Berzerkers are pretty much obsolete at the moment.

All units in a Chaos Warband have Objective Secured. The CSM, the Havocs/Helbrutes, the Chosen/Termies/Possessed, the Bikes/Raptors/Warp Talons, and the Lord/Kharn. The Chaos Warband can be amazing with the right unit composition.

I mean no disrespect by this but do you have the Traitor Legions book? You seem to be stuck in a pre-book strategy mindset.