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Maybe people don't want pre-painted plastics? Maybe they don't want minotaur-sized werewolves? Maybe people are, for whatever reason, uncomfortable buying products produced by a dead company? It's not logical, but I've seen it before. Maybe people are stuck in the "a manufacturer's miniatures can only be used for that manufacturer's games" mindset? Also not logical, but extremely common.


Maybe it's painfully ironic that someone using the handle "LunaHound" is complaining that people want more, different werewolf models?

By the way, I'm not saying Mantic should make werewolves (nor am I saying they shouldn't), but your reasoning seems to be:

Rackham made werewolves.
Rackham's werewolves weren't/aren't selling.
THEREFORE:
Mantic should not make werewolves.

RatBot wrote:Maybe people don't want pre-painted plastics? Maybe they don't want minotaur-sized werewolves?


Maybe it's painfully ironic that someone using the handle "LunaHound" is complaining that people want more, different werewolf models?

By the way, I'm not saying Mantic should make werewolves (nor am I saying they shouldn't), but your reasoning seems to be:

Rackham made werewolves.
Rackham's werewolves weren't/aren't selling.
THEREFORE:
Mantic should not make werewolves.

Rackham's "painted" figurines are very thin, treat them as free primer or even base coat ( proof = check my gallery, i paint over them directly )

And yes the 2nd part is what im saying :'P
If we are talking about GW, then by all means sure give it a try. They can afford to make them, and boost the sales by increasing their stats favorably.

But we are talking about Mantic, new and fragile company. Definitely SHOULD NOT test thin ice.
Im taking everything into account as a whole.

LunaHound wrote:
But we are talking about Mantic, new and fragile company. Definitely SHOULD NOT test thin ice.
Im taking everything into account as a whole.

See, that makes more sense. It sounded to me like you meant that Mantic shouldn't make werewolves because other people make werewolves.

Hell, now that we're on the topic, I think I might actually like to see sci-fi werewolves. But not from Mantic, not right now. They need to figure out their production issues before they do anything else, especially because their whole selling point is supposed to be inexpensive plastic models.

LunaHound wrote:What people want? Generic great coat troops ( e.g wargame factory was it? the end product was bad but the demands are certainly there )
Or even some generic sci fi , generic fantasy human factions. Nothing time period specific like Empire troops, but rather generic like Britonnian Men at Arms.
Easy conversion potential = moar sales.

I disagree about the Men at Arms. Because any human fantasy range is competing not only with other fantasy manufacturers but also every historical manufacturer, any fantasy humans Mantic makes really need to be proper fantasy humans. Anyone who wants Men-At-Arms will already have bought a box or five of the Perry twins' War of the Roses infantry.

4) Mantic named their upcoming faction "Corporation"? . This is literally their last chance they have to grab back their customers. They have successful predecessors to work after....
O.N.I Corp.

It's not just the name - they're also a bunch of unlikeable, evil dumbasses.

I would consider Warpath a flop, the sales momentum already slowed dangerously before they even release it. Unlike GW, they dont have enough fans to generate the momentum,
plus they have too much anti-Mantic haters that has waaaay too long to bash down a upcomming product. What they need to do is shorten the sneak peek by a month.

I disagree - if showing your work gives people too long to bash your product, you should try not sucking so hard. A short sneak peek schedule doesn't help - just look at the backlash when it was revealed the Marauders and Forgefathers used the exact same components as their fantasy counterparts.

Also, female auxiliary troops for both sci fi and fantasy.
Guaranteed wtf sales boost

Definitely agree with this. It's a "faction" three billion strong in real life that gets less plastic support than robo-wheelchairs for crippled Space Marines do.

RatBot wrote:Maybe they don't want minotaur-sized werewolves?

Then Mantic isn't for them either - Mantic's werewolves are Large Infantry, same as Ogres and Trolls.

AlexHolker wrote:

RatBot wrote:Maybe they don't want minotaur-sized werewolves?

Then Mantic isn't for them either - Mantic's werewolves are Large Infantry, same as Ogres and Trolls.

Well, that shows how much attention I've been paying to Kings of War.

I disagree about the Men at Arms. Because any human fantasy range is competing not only with other fantasy manufacturers but also every historical manufacturer, any fantasy humans Mantic makes really need to be proper fantasy humans. Anyone who wants Men-At-Arms will already have bought a box or five of the Perry twins' War of the Roses infantry.

Sounds good, can give link so i can purchase myself some? xD

It's not just the name - they're also a bunch of unlikeable, evil dumbasses.

I dont really care about name, i just want some generic sci fi mercenaries

I disagree - if showing your work gives people too long to bash your product, you should try not sucking so hard.

When product is done and made, there is only so much options left. Hence sales strategy

LunaHound wrote:

I disagree about the Men at Arms. Because any human fantasy range is competing not only with other fantasy manufacturers but also every historical manufacturer, any fantasy humans Mantic makes really need to be proper fantasy humans. Anyone who wants Men-At-Arms will already have bought a box or five of the Perry twins' War of the Roses infantry.

Sounds good, can give link so i can purchase myself some? xD

Sure, their website isn't working for me at the moment, but you can get them through Wayland Games at 16.20 pounds for 40.

WotR infantry with bows and polearms.
Mercenaries with pikes, crossbows and handguns.

How are their sizes and quality compared to GW? pic is so small xD
Sorry dont like those. The exact reason i dislike Empire, they look like historical sculpts.

I want generic fantasy stuff!

RatBot wrote:Hell, now that we're on the topic, I think I might actually like to see sci-fi werewolves.

Infinity's Ariadna faction has got you, more or less, covered.

LunaHound wrote:I want generic fantasy stuff!

There's no such thing. If you want them to look like fantasy soldiers, you have to diverge from the generic along any one of a myriad of paths.

There's no such thing. If you want them to look like fantasy soldiers, you have to diverge from the generic along any one of a myriad of paths.

Yep. Generic fantasy = historical.

LunaHound wrote:

Da Boss wrote:I will be very disappointed if the goblins are metal- I had planned to pick some up.

If it is metal, then Mantic has strayed from their original purpose.

Yes, they will be metal, but no, they are not going to be the final version of the models.

Same way that Twilight Kin are not the final version, and neither are Abyssal Dwarfs (which btw, might be seeing an entirely hard-plastic release next year - it's got to the point where they're starting to make a loss on the abyssal army boxes so they are in desperate need of a revamp to avoid another price rise).

As soon as they can sort out the manufacturer issues, they'll be back on track making plastics.

With the goblins they also ran into moulding issues with the sculpts that meant they couldn't get them looking how they wanted in either resin plastic *or* hard plastic.

Of course, they could have just released a crappy-looking plastic sprue with bad detail, clone models and everything else instead of the stop-gap metals, but I think we all know how public feedback on that would turn out!

On the one hand, you have people wanting mantic to give them everything right now (plastic goblins not metal), and on the other hand you have people who want mantic to wait, take their time to wait and do things properly.

Mantic cannot please both crowds, and most people want the latter, judging by feedback on these forums, so if you want the former and are personally wanting a goblin army early next year, then buy some old BfsP kits off ebay instead.

I won't buy buying any metal goblins either, but I don't see the need to get angsty about "Mantic's betrayal of the customer base with it's new no-plastic policy" or other made-up nonsense like that, because I know it's just a temporary thing, whih will get resolved firstly by drafting in resin plastic in a big way, and then later by securing some more toolmakers.

Loads of other manufacturers currently make goblins in metal and yes, there are people who go ahead and buy whole regiments of them. Look at stuff like Heresy, fourA, Otherworld... all of those totally blow GW out of the water for sculpt quality. Mantic's metal release is just as valid as any of the releases by those companies. (and, will sell just as badly, but it doesn't matter, rubber moulds for metal are dirt cheap and it'll still turn a small profit).


There was this blog post yesterday, which contained an interesting line:

To Terry and Joan at Renedra, our fantastic and reliable tool maker for once again pulling out all the stops and getting us all the stock early and in huge quantities, and to our two new tool makers

Mantic is already looking into alternative mould toolers.

Best not to expect much in the way of plastics from them for the next 6 months or so, though... because it's just not going to happen, Renedra is overworked, and it'll take time to get up and running with the new tool makers.

Also, another interesting line:

you have made, shipped and collated over 500,000 components in the last 4 weeks

If each Warpath starter set contains 100 components (I'm guessing each sprue and resin plastic piece counts as 1 component, so that estimate is likely to be on the ball or comfortably over), then the equivalent of 5000 copies of it have been sold in the first month. Pretty good result, I think!

P.S. Mantic have said that they have *zero* current plans to make models for werewolves. It was just a unit entry they added because one of the fans wanted it, and sent an email asking for it at midnight on the full moon once per month for a year.

Pacific wrote:Anyone know of any future release list schedule for the Marauder Orx? Specifically what other types of units are incoming?

Sorry just quoting myself again here, has anyone heard anything?

^ No current word on the next wave of marauder releases, although the Raptor will be being released seperately really soon.

Edit: Yep, Raptor is being released this weekend. No word on individual pricing, but they will be sold as a "3 for £30" deal.

Forgefather 2nd wave is being sculpted and will include the steel warriors upgrade set, to give them all their weapon options (along with new heads, sci-fi legs and all that) and an Iron Ancestor (dreadnought) model.

As for the other types of unit that are going to be coming out for the marauders:

- Grots, killa kans, mega armoured nobs, stormboyz, battlewagon, big gunz, shoota boyz, dreadnought all have rough mantic equivalents in the army list, so these are the future releases you can expect to see.

No idea when, but mantic are pretty good about making sure that their older ranges get new releases. Even the elves have had 2 extra release waves in the last 2 years. I'd expect to see more for warpath fairly soon since they seem to be pushing it pretty hard. I think they might consolidate after they have their first 4 warpath armies out and spend some time fleshing out those 4.

Great thanks for that mate, regarding the different model options that is exactly what I wanted to hear

agnosto wrote:

privateer4hire wrote:

Throwing ebay, car boots, yard sales and deals that somebody might get from a guy who is desperate to pay his rent by selling his army might not give a good comparison.

Ok, how about any bit site on the web? Seriously, did you just ignore the "AoBR" part of my post? Every bit site on e-bay and elswhere parts out the AoBR set and it's a great way to pick up SM or Ork core, no frills, troops. Unpainted, unassembled, usually still on sprue models; I fail to see how that equates into someone selling their models to pay the rent or selling out of their car's trunk (does that even happen?).

I was just making a point that the 1/2 fantasy mantic product costs more than a GW equivalent. I'm no GW fanboi but I won't pay more just to avoid GW.

I agree with you that AOBR orks are a great way to start a cheap Ork army.
I actually focused on your mention of AOBR. You pitted models from a loss leader starter set from GW sold on ebay/bitz stores against a full retail Mantic individual unit sold as a box.

As to the (does that even happen of selling out of their car's trunk), it happens. Our FLGS has trade/sales days about every 6 months where people are lucky to get 25-50% back on their GW armies (in-box or assembled and decently painted). Deals happen in the parking lot out of peoples' car trunks quite a bit there.

Well after looking through quite a bit of pages of this thread, I have determined that mantic is just an uninspired, underwhelming, lackluster version of 40k and fantasy. Besides people who hate on gw just because they're gw, I honestly can't understand why anyone would prefer these over gw products. If they really want to compete with gw, I think they should have come up with something fresher and more original.

bbb wrote:If everything we're hearing is correct, next year AoBR will be replaced by the 6th ed starter that will not include Orks, so the monopose Ork boyz will probably not be produced anymore. We'll have to see what that does to their price on the secondary market.

Nod. If you want 'em, buy 'em now while you have the chance... - same with the cheap SM stuff from AoBR


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:
$30 for ALL THESE ( they are size of GW minotaurs ) if i see another mention of people asking mantic to make were wolves im going to slap them
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/confrontation-wolfen-army-box-great-value.html

I would (have just) totally bought that, if the shipping price wasn't huge. I had 3 in my cart, but at US$70 shipping it's just not worth it to me. the shipping/price ratio was far worse for 2 or 1 boxes, as well, unfortunately. I imagine it also sucks for people in the UK.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

I disagree about the Men at Arms. Because any human fantasy range is competing not only with other fantasy manufacturers but also every historical manufacturer, any fantasy humans Mantic makes really need to be proper fantasy humans. Anyone who wants Men-At-Arms will already have bought a box or five of the Perry twins' War of the Roses infantry.

Sounds good, can give link so i can purchase myself some? xD

Maelstrom link, if you prefer free shipping to Wayland's shipping.

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-pry-wor

LunaHound wrote:How are their sizes and quality compared to GW? pic is so small xD
Sorry dont like those. The exact reason i dislike Empire, they look like historical sculpts.

I want generic fantasy stuff!

Thats because they are historical sculpts.

scipio.au wrote:I would (have just) totally bought that, if the shipping price wasn't huge. I had 3 in my cart, but at US$70 shipping it's just not worth it to me. the shipping/price ratio was far worse for 2 or 1 boxes, as well, unfortunately. I imagine it also sucks for people in the UK.

Miniature market has repackaging service. If you pay them $5 or so, they'll take the 3 boxes and compact them.

Well after looking through quite a bit of pages of this thread, I have determined that mantic is just an uninspired, underwhelming, lackluster version of 40k and fantasy. Besides people who hate on gw just because they're gw, I honestly can't understand why anyone would prefer these over gw products. If they really want to compete with gw, I think they should have come up with something fresher and more original.

Actually the rules are better than the GW rules and they are still in Open Beta.

And actually some of their lines look way better than the GW counterpart (namely the Undead.... when I had too choose between both versions the GW one really looked clunky and unseemly in comparison). And also the Mantic version was 450 Euros cheaper (and that includes replacement minis for units like the Wraiths (which I do not like that much, but thats more a matter of what you understand under a wraith) from Otherworld), which even though I work in this business is still a lot of money for an army.

Mantic has to struggle at the moment and some of their decisions are not thet good (Hybrids anyone) but knowing that some has to do with missing production facilities (something that will be rectified in time), they are still on their way.

Oh, and many of the companies that came up with something fresher and more innovative were hounded because it was "not looking GW-ish enough". No matter what you do.... there will some folks that complain big time.

Also: Mantic stuff looks way better in real life (yep... they have to imporve their picture-taking)

And: The internet blows thinks normally out of proportion, thinks it is the navel of the world an forgets that the internet guys normally represent max 30% of the gamers out there.

LunaHound wrote:

scipio.au wrote:I would (have just) totally bought that, if the shipping price wasn't huge. I had 3 in my cart, but at US$70 shipping it's just not worth it to me. the shipping/price ratio was far worse for 2 or 1 boxes, as well, unfortunately. I imagine it also sucks for people in the UK.

Miniature market has repackaging service. If you pay them $5 or so, they'll take the 3 boxes and compact them.

Ah, shame it's not more obvious on their site. I spent my hobby money later last night on other things. Maybe if they still have them next pay - and depends how much the postal price changes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Yeah, after looking around I can't find any mention of it. Do you have a link to where it's explained on their site?

privateer4hire wrote:
I agree with you that AOBR orks are a great way to start a cheap Ork army.
I actually focused on your mention of AOBR. You pitted models from a loss leader starter set from GW sold on ebay/bitz stores against a full retail Mantic individual unit sold as a box.

As to the (does that even happen of selling out of their car's trunk), it happens. Our FLGS has trade/sales days about every 6 months where people are lucky to get 25-50% back on their GW armies (in-box or assembled and decently painted). Deals happen in the parking lot out of peoples' car trunks quite a bit there.

Yeah, I don't really care about what's a loss leader or how it's packaged; I'm just interested in the cost per model and does it fit what I need. No other systems are played where I live so I'm stuck with GW.

"Better" is of course a very subjective term (note, I'm not currently playing any ruleset, except for the very occasional LOTR SBG game), as are personal aesthetics - I bought Mantic's Wraiths to mix into my GW LotR models, and I've done the same with Otherworld's wraiths and shades as well.

I do think that Mantic's undead are the pick of the line, but GW's ones are no slouches either. I like both sets quite well.

As far as "internet fans" of anything go, they're often the most passionate and also the most unhinged. Companies would still do well to hear what they have to say, even if they don't act on every little thing.

After all, there's more of every kind of hobbyist on the net today than there were 10 years ago, and it's only going to increase as the computer-literate of us keep aging without dropping off our hobbies while having the young-uns add on at the bottom end. We were those kids, once.

Number of Xmas deals added to the store, including these excellent ones for Kings of War that will be around until December the 1st:

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Christmas-Bundles/Orcys-Luxury-Collection.html

£150 for 2 mega army boxes + an extra blister. Free shipping worldwide, too.

That is a obscenely large amount of models for £150, if only I had some more spare cash on me right now.

Also, round bases and 25mm square bases are now up for sale seperately, with bundle deals:

http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Paints-and-Hobby/Bags-Bases-and-Cases/Bases.html

scarletsquig wrote:
Also, round bases and 25mm square bases are now up for sale seperately, with bundle deals:
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Paints-and-Hobby/Bags-Bases-and-Cases/Bases.html

Excellent! I've been waiting for a long time for round bases with round inserts to base up my spacelords figures.
I don't collect this faction (Phagon Beastmen), but this is what the integral bases look like.



Now If I can just find a store in the states to order them from so I won't be paying 15 bucks to ship a bag of bases!

scipio.au wrote:

bbb wrote:If everything we're hearing is correct, next year AoBR will be replaced by the 6th ed starter that will not include Orks, so the monopose Ork boyz will probably not be produced anymore. We'll have to see what that does to their price on the secondary market.

Nod. If you want 'em, buy 'em now while you have the chance... - same with the cheap SM stuff from AoBR


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:
$30 for ALL THESE ( they are size of GW minotaurs ) if i see another mention of people asking mantic to make were wolves im going to slap them
http://www.miniaturemarket.com/confrontation-wolfen-army-box-great-value.html

I would (have just) totally bought that, if the shipping price wasn't huge. I had 3 in my cart, but at US$70 shipping it's just not worth it to me. the shipping/price ratio was far worse for 2 or 1 boxes, as well, unfortunately. I imagine it also sucks for people in the UK.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

I disagree about the Men at Arms. Because any human fantasy range is competing not only with other fantasy manufacturers but also every historical manufacturer, any fantasy humans Mantic makes really need to be proper fantasy humans. Anyone who wants Men-At-Arms will already have bought a box or five of the Perry twins' War of the Roses infantry.

Sounds good, can give link so i can purchase myself some? xD

Maelstrom link, if you prefer free shipping to Wayland's shipping.

http://www.maelstromgames.co.uk/index.php?act=cat&cre=min-pry-wor

You can get those Wulfen from Ludik Bazaar in France, they even do 3 for 2 on those army boxes and postage should be about 15-20 euro.

http://www.ludikbazar.com/index.php?cPath=460_4271_4382_4386

Yes, I delurked just to post that

Eilif wrote:

scarletsquig wrote:
Also, round bases and 25mm square bases are now up for sale seperately, with bundle deals:
http://www.manticgames.com/Shop-Home/Paints-and-Hobby/Bags-Bases-and-Cases/Bases.html

Excellent! I've been waiting for a long time for round bases with round inserts to base up my spacelords figures.
I don't collect this faction (Phagon Beastmen), but this is what the integral bases look like.



Now If I can just find a store in the states to order them from so I won't be paying 15 bucks to ship a bag of bases!

its actually $4.50 flat on all orders to the US

lord marcus wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Excellent! I've been waiting for a long time for round bases with round inserts to base up my spacelords figures.
I don't collect this faction (Phagon Beastmen), but this is what the integral bases look like.



Now If I can just find a store in the states to order them from so I won't be paying 15 bucks to ship a bag of bases!

its actually $4.50 flat on all orders to the US

That's very good news, but how do I get that price? I went through their checkout and it said 8 pounds to "rest of world".

I think you need to change the payment type to Dollars instead of Pounds or Euros.

I notice that they don't refund VAT to non-European customers, either.

rosafari - I'll check out that site. Thanks!

Eilif wrote:

lord marcus wrote:

Eilif wrote:
Excellent! I've been waiting for a long time for round bases with round inserts to base up my spacelords figures.
I don't collect this faction (Phagon Beastmen), but this is what the integral bases look like.



Now If I can just find a store in the states to order them from so I won't be paying 15 bucks to ship a bag of bases!

its actually $4.50 flat on all orders to the US

That's very good news, but how do I get that price? I went through their checkout and it said 8 pounds to "rest of world".

change from euros/pounds to dollars.