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Made in us
Ultramarine Master with Gauntlets of Macragge





Boston, MA

Da Boss wrote:Those space rats are awful.

Also, Veer'Myn are a stupid concept with a stupid name and stupid models.

Giant mutant rats. For serious?

I know right? What kind of idiots would start an army of mutant rats?

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Insect-Infested Nurgle Chaos Lord







Did anyone else just hear that? I think it was GW's collective sigh of relief.

These models are terrible.

   
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Battlefield Tourist






Nuremberg

Brother SRM wrote:
Da Boss wrote:Those space rats are awful.

Also, Veer'Myn are a stupid concept with a stupid name and stupid models.

Giant mutant rats. For serious?

I know right? What kind of idiots would start an army of mutant rats?


Giant mutant ratmen in a fantasy setting where the scale is much smaller and the technology much lower and factions much less prone to nuking it from orbit is completely different to mutant rats on space ships. There's no way that is a credible threat for any organised sci fi force. Compare Veer Myn to Tyranids.

   
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Terrifying Doombull





Melbourne .au

Pacific wrote:To be fair, I think you need to explain why they look smaller. It's not height (in fact, I think they are slightly taller than Cadians) but rather the proportions. They don't have the giant hands and head of the Cadians, or heroic scale as it's often called, which is why proportionately they look smaller.

I think they are lovely little minis, aside from the proportion they are more detailed sculpts than Cadians also. if you weren't the opposite side of the world to me Scipio.Au I might have asked you to sell them on to me? (although your avatar makes me worry about any telephone-based transaction! )


It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns. - which is fine for all of those lines (I use Red Box with my LotR figures) but they come across as small for 40k proxies (which is what they are - let's face it!). The Heavy Weapon platforms are also much smaller in-hand than they appear to be in pictures on the internets. The sculpts don't seem too bad, though it's hard to see with them unprimed/unpainted.

If I were playing some kind of hard sci-fi game, they'd be just fine, for 40k, I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.


As for the Veer'Myn - silly name, bad models, concept is fine, IMO. Then again, I haven't liked the GW Skaven line as a whole since Jes did all the models. Since then they've been very hit-or-miss. I'm just judging the Mantic ones to the same standard as I do GW ones. Like most contemporary GW Skaven, these Veer'Myn fall short.

But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?


   
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Oberleutnant





I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.

These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio 
   
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ArbeitsSchu wrote:I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.

These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.

I think it is you who doesn't understand the nature of rats. A big rat just can't do the same things a small rat can. A Veermyn is less capable of escaping detection, less capable of replenishing its numbers, and will trigger more vigorous extermination attempts.

Like zombies, they're not a credible threat. Unless the author blatantly cheats in their favour it's only a matter of time until the whole race is driven to extinction.

"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis 
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka






On a boat, Trying not to die.

Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).

What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?

I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?


Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats. 
   
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Monarchy of TBD

It looks like they went for the thousands of year old ships theory for Project Pandora. In the depths of these ships, rats have evolved, possibly involving some poorly disposed of mutagen. Then, they taught themselves Karate, and chose the drill because of how easy it is to use to make extra tunnels in ships. Also, probably because it is really hard to make a menacing cutting torch or arc welder without special effects.

I'm not sold on the logic of it all, but I do think these would make a great lost and the damned army- toss in some CSM leaders and you've got a great rebelling population of abhuman mine workers.

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Orkeosaurus wrote:Star Trek also said we'd have X-Wings by now. We all see how that prediction turned out.
Orkeosaurus, on homophobia, the nature of homosexuality, and the greatness of George Takei.
English doesn't borrow from other languages. It follows them down dark alleyways and mugs them for loose grammar.

 
   
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UK

Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).

What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?

I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?



In answer to your main question - nobody knows, although the reality of the matter is probably "Ronnie and Alessio thought it'd be cool".

Nothing more.

There are companies out there making teddy bears with guns and mutant zebras and entire ranges of evil snowmen with AK-47's.. there are hundreds of examples of utter lunacy out there, which is great. Those small companies don't draw any criticism for their product, but Mantic does because it has 6-12 full time employees instead of 1-2?

They're not something I'm interested in buying either, although on the other hand I see no reason to be bothered by them.

Mantic is just adding one to the pile and having some fun for a bit rather than just cranking out GW clones.. something which it draws a lot of criticism for on this forum.

Of course, with the Veer-Myn they're weird enough to call of being useless for GW games, but the style is similar enough to GW to wheel out the standard complaints about them copying GW, so it's a double-loss as far as the internet complaints go.


I agree that the background is pretty ridiculous. In answer to your questions though... they sneak on board docked ships or in cargo, they eat "Verminium" (no, I'm not being facetious, that is the actual background!), no idea why they use drills, don't mention "giant mousetraps" please, you'll start giving mantic ideas for the pandora expansion, and they don't kill them all because they're too hidden in cavernous ships that were built millennia ago and poorly designed.
   
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Quite amusing that these seem to offend people so badly. And the arguments about whether they are viable/plausible as an alien race

Carry on chaps *need a popcorn-eating smily here*

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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2012/04/13 16:01:10


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AlexHolker wrote:
ArbeitsSchu wrote:I'm wondering if some people don't actually understand the nature of rats enough? They breed like... rats..they outnumber people by a ridiculous number. They carry diseases. They get everywhere. They nearly have thumbs.

These ones also understand firearms and 'future-tech' and are big enough to eat you. And they HAVE thumbs.

I think it is you who doesn't understand the nature of rats. A big rat just can't do the same things a small rat can. A Veermyn is less capable of escaping detection, less capable of replenishing its numbers, and will trigger more vigorous extermination attempts.

Like zombies, they're not a credible threat. Unless the author blatantly cheats in their favour it's only a matter of time until the whole race is driven to extinction.


Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?


Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?

I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)

"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio 
   
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ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?

As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.

Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?

Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.

I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)

A zombie is just a slow, stupid human that can only reproduce by winning a fight against something faster, smarter and more heavily armed than it.

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Bristol

Don't see what the problem is. Think the Nightmares are gorgeous actually. Armour looks sharp, one arm's blasting with the wrist mounted flame thrower which is pretty cool and the drill is used against walls and armour, or for tanks. Not as fussed on the Night-Crawlers, but I think the Nightmares are just ace. particularly if they were led with the night spawn that got leaked on BOLS:



Ooo, and there's a new Mantic Podcast too which is quite exciting!
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?812-Mantic-Podcast-Episode-1-The-One-About-Pandora-s-Box&p=5514#post5514

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/13 17:50:16


 
   
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On a boat, Trying not to die.

Black Nexus wrote:Don't see what the problem is. Think the Nightmares are gorgeous actually. Armour looks sharp, one arm's blasting with the wrist mounted flame thrower which is pretty cool and the drill is used against walls and armour, or for tanks. Not as fussed on the Night-Crawlers, but I think the Nightmares are just ace. particularly if they were led with the night spawn that got leaked on BOLS:



Ooo, and there's a new Mantic Podcast too which is quite exciting!
http://forum.manticblog.com/showthread.php?812-Mantic-Podcast-Episode-1-The-One-About-Pandora-s-Box&p=5514#post5514

That is a good looking model right there!

I think the monopose really threw me off. If they sculpted the other larger rats with the same level of detail and personality as this guy, they would be a really cool looking model!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
scarletsquig wrote:
Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).

What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?

I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?



In answer to your main question - nobody knows, although the reality of the matter is probably "Ronnie and Alessio thought it'd be cool".

Nothing more.

There are companies out there making teddy bears with guns and mutant zebras and entire ranges of evil snowmen with AK-47's.. there are hundreds of examples of utter lunacy out there, which is great. Those small companies don't draw any criticism for their product, but Mantic does because it has 6-12 full time employees instead of 1-2?

They're not something I'm interested in buying either, although on the other hand I see no reason to be bothered by them.

Mantic is just adding one to the pile and having some fun for a bit rather than just cranking out GW clones.. something which it draws a lot of criticism for on this forum.

Of course, with the Veer-Myn they're weird enough to call of being useless for GW games, but the style is similar enough to GW to wheel out the standard complaints about them copying GW, so it's a double-loss as far as the internet complaints go.


I agree that the background is pretty ridiculous. In answer to your questions though... they sneak on board docked ships or in cargo, they eat "Verminium" (no, I'm not being facetious, that is the actual background!), no idea why they use drills, don't mention "giant mousetraps" please, you'll start giving mantic ideas for the pandora expansion, and they don't kill them all because they're too hidden in cavernous ships that were built millennia ago and poorly designed.

Your points are all valid, besides for the thing with the employees.

Mantic started, and still is, an alternate model company to GW. The vast majority of the people who buy their stuff don't use it for KoW or for the Sci Fi game (I'm drawing a blank), methinks. So, if they start making sub-par looking models that don't fit with any other GW Army, people get very confused and thrown off. I think that's where the backlash is coming from.

Also, the people like the Teddy Bears with Guns because they are sculpted well, and don't come from a range that was made to be a knock off.

Don't get me wrong, the rest of the Veer'Myn look pretty decent, borderline good. However, the models I commented on look like really bad Monopose Termies that were discontinued a while ago.

Also, Verminium? Jesus Christ. Why not just call it "Cheeseium", and have it be yellow and grow from milk spills.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2012/04/13 18:15:02


Every Normal Man Must Be Tempted At Times To Spit On His Hands, Hoist That Black Flag, And Begin Slitting Throats. 
   
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Lakewood, Ohio

I would most likely use the Veer-Myn as a Dark Eldar Counts-as. I've already seen some cool conversions using Skaven models.

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Fixture of Dakka






I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.

What if Veer-Myn were rat-sized but just sentient/intelligent? Stories happen where large monsters raid human civilizations, but there is no boarding ship, no breach of security, no attack party. They literally 'show up, steal what they want, kill people and go away?'

They are a race which has no homeworld to bomb, no spaceships to blow up, no base to target. But they are always around. The truth is they are so intertwined to human civilization and hiding in plain sight as a regular rat is indistinguishable.

They learn by watching us. When we train, we train them. When we make leaps in technology, it is delivered to them on a silver platter. When we have plans to destroy them, they know it before we do. They reproduce amazingly fast being small and need minimal food to survive. One Human's rations can feed them for a month.

People report strangess. They notice rats which seem to be working with purpose, they see the human-sized rats. We can’t prevent them or catch them, just cover them up. Anyone who publically claims the rats are working against us are removed. It is nothing more than a conspiracy.

Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.

They are the 8th race, we do not speak of them.


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Perth

scipio.au wrote:
Pacific wrote:To be fair, I think you need to explain why they look smaller. It's not height (in fact, I think they are slightly taller than Cadians) but rather the proportions. They don't have the giant hands and head of the Cadians, or heroic scale as it's often called, which is why proportionately they look smaller.

I think they are lovely little minis, aside from the proportion they are more detailed sculpts than Cadians also. if you weren't the opposite side of the world to me Scipio.Au I might have asked you to sell them on to me? (although your avatar makes me worry about any telephone-based transaction! )


It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns. - which is fine for all of those lines (I use Red Box with my LotR figures) but they come across as small for 40k proxies (which is what they are - let's face it!). The Heavy Weapon platforms are also much smaller in-hand than they appear to be in pictures on the internets. The sculpts don't seem too bad, though it's hard to see with them unprimed/unpainted.

If I were playing some kind of hard sci-fi game, they'd be just fine, for 40k, I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.


scipio - how do they compare to say, FW's DKOK or Elysians?

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scipio.au wrote:But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?

Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).

Actually, the answer is even more depressing: The name was "invented" by the first group of GW drop-outs in the 90s, who formed Harlequin/Black Tree Design and made the Skaven copy army VerMen: http://www.blacktreedesign.com/northamerica/home.php?cat=2343 . Yes, it's that bad. Always think of the least creative answer first and you are probably spot on.
Chowderhead wrote:What the hell role are they supposed to fill? They don't work for counts as for any GW product (Let's face it. No-one plays these models for the actual game.) and just seem off. How does a rat get to space? What do they eat? Why drills for weapons? Why doesn't the Corporation just leave out jumbo-sized mousetraps? Why don't they just go in and kill them all?

I think my main question can be summed up in one sentence: Why do these exist!?!?

1.) Mantic did it because like most of their projects, Space Skaven were rejected/stopped GW projects of the 90s (like Squats and Chaos Dwarfs).
2.) Steampunk Ratmen have a huge potential, with lots of Skaven players (Skryre!) willing to buy some if decently made. Just imagine for a moment the cashflow, if Avatars of War released a plastic box of them! It takes a lot to botch this market, but Mantic succeeded by taking the monkey head sculpts of the 90 and posing them as stumbling zombies, blindly pointing one weapon to the right and holding the cc weapon as far from the body to the left, as if someone in their back said "Hands up! And slowly drop your weapons!" Fighting with weapons looks different.
Medium of Death wrote:Did anyone else just hear that? I think it was GW's collective sigh of relief.

I hear it every time Mantic shows their new actual models (other than their undead range).

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2012/04/13 20:36:58


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nkelsch wrote:I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.

Intelligent rats that hate you are a perfectly decent concept for a Monster Manual entry. Not so much as a side in a sci-fi wargame.

Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.

...no, that's still awful. Sorry. I think intelligent rats that just invented Pym particles are even more ridiculous than the background they've already got.

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AlexHolker wrote:
nkelsch wrote:I feel like this is one of the situations where fluff does impact the appeal of the models. All it takes is a good coherent fluff to make the silly into awesome.

Intelligent rats that hate you are a perfectly decent concept for a Monster Manual entry. Not so much as a side in a sci-fi wargame.

Something has changed. Being small and intelligent has been a nuisance at worst, but now there are reports they are human-sized. If given access to nuclear material, they seem to be able to use it to leverage technology to grow 20 times their size in short bursts to wreak massive destruction and retreat into obscurity under our own noses able to hide in plain sight with their less evolved cousins.

...no, that's still awful. Sorry. I think intelligent rats that just invented Pym particles are even more ridiculous than the background they've already got.


Space rats are terrible no matter how you slice it, but the problem with space warfare is things get solved pretty easy with an orbital bombardment. They made the most drastic, ominous and dangerous foe of their entire universe a terribly implausible threat.

Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.

If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.

My Models: Ork Army: Waaagh 'Az-ard - Chibi Dungeon RPG Models! - My Workblog!
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
RULE OF COOL: When converting models, there is only one rule: "The better your model looks, the less people will complain about it."
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
MODELING FOR ADVANTAGE TEST: rigeld2: "Easy test - are you willing to play the model as a stock one? No? MFA." 
   
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nkelsch wrote:Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.

For both sci-fi and fantasy you can get away with a lot more if you look good doing it. Suspension of disbelief only works if the audience wants to believe. That, as much as anything, is the problem with the Veermyn: a parasitic civilisation of evolved rats just aren't awesome enough for me to want to look past the flaws.

If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.

YMMV, but I disagree with this point. If I wanted to rewrite bad fluff to go with good models, all I'd need is a quill and a pot of ink. If I want to remake bad plastic models to go with good fluff, a lot more infrastructure and capital is required.

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AlexHolker wrote:
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?

As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.


Neither does a 5 foot ork, or whatever. At the most extreme "OMG this is stupid guize" this is no sillier than anything that has ever been made for 40k.
AlexHolker wrote:
Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?

Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.


Again orks. I have never heard anyone complain about space orks and their fungal origins. In the same vein i dont see how using the same rules-breaking that created space orks, these space rats couldnt exist in the bowels of a giant ancient super ship. These points are stupider than arguing who shot who in cops and robbers. If warpath is an equally stupid 40k style universe, then anything goes. Otherwise we are going to have to apply these same rules to 40k.

   
Made in au
Terrifying Doombull





Melbourne .au

Death By Monkeys wrote:
scipio.au wrote:
It's both height and proportion - I don't mind properly-proportioned minis at all, but these are also extra-small. They're the same size as, say, Red Box miniatures, or the earlier LotR figures, or my Eureka 28mm moderns.
I think they would work as proxies if you had an entire IG army made of them, but they won't work well mixed in with GW's figures.


scipio - how do they compare to say, FW's DKOK or Elysians?


Unfortunately, I own no Forgeworld IG, so I can't give a comparison.

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Kroothawk wrote:
scipio.au wrote:But yeah, the name "Veer'Myn" is as ****-stupid as "Mon'Keigh". Ha. Ha. I wonder if Gav Thorpe came up with their name as well?

Chowderhead wrote:Quick question on the Veer'Myn (Whoever came up with the name deserves a slap on the back of the head).

Actually, the answer is even more depressing: The name was "invented" by the first group of GW drop-outs in the 90s, who formed Harlequin/Black Tree Design and made the Skaven copy army VerMen: http://www.blacktreedesign.com/northamerica/home.php?cat=2343 . Yes, it's that bad. Always think of the least creative answer first and you are probably spot on.


You know what? I can actually forgive the name as something created by Harlequin in the 90's while doing a direct Skaven knockoff. You know why? There was no pretense there that those figures were anything but GW proxies. Given that Mantic is actually doing something a bit new with their space skaven - it's not the height of creativity, but it's really no worse than the original concepts for Eldar or Squats conceptually - but they're going through the motions of creating their own game, with its own branding and so forth, but it's such a weak, pathetic name. They may as well have just called them "Vermin" and told us that it's just the other races' name for them. (much like the Imperium named the Tyranids).

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GBL wrote:
Again orks. I have never heard anyone complain about space orks and their fungal origins. In the same vein i dont see how using the same rules-breaking that created space orks, these space rats couldnt exist in the bowels of a giant ancient super ship. These points are stupider than arguing who shot who in cops and robbers. If warpath is an equally stupid 40k style universe, then anything goes. Otherwise we are going to have to apply these same rules to 40k.


Oh, I do that all the time. In fact, I pretend that that particular bit of stupid canon/lore just doesn't exist. Much like Highlander 2.

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nkelsch wrote:
Space rats are terrible no matter how you slice it, but the problem with space warfare is things get solved pretty easy with an orbital bombardment. They made the most drastic, ominous and dangerous foe of their entire universe a terribly implausible threat.


Years ago, my brother made a similar comment involving swords and airstrikes and 40k. He was of course, absolutely right - just as you are. However, he, as you, missed the point there. Which is that it's a (rather silly, in the end) game, so abstration and unrealistic things (weapon ranges) happen for the sake of gameplay. Otherwise our average 6x4 table would be for patrol vs patrol, etc. Not "armies."


Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.
If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.


40k makes little sense when you think about it, but again, I agree that people want their Sci-fi to make a bit more mechanical sense. Then again, Star Trek, Star Wars etc are perfect examples of lots of latitude being given in telling an entertaining story. With a miniatures game, the fluff is far less important - especially with Warpath, where the fluff is essentially meaningless. The models are far more important in this case.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/14 02:11:29


   
Made in us
Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant




Believeland, OH

It looks like they went for the thousands of year old ships theory for Project Pandora. In the depths of these ships, rats have evolved, possibly involving some poorly disposed of mutagen. Then, they taught themselves Karate, and chose the drill because of how easy it is to use to make extra tunnels in ships. Also, probably because it is really hard to make a menacing cutting torch or arc welder without special effects.


They need to meet a cat that has evolved over thousands of years in the belly of a ship.



Maybe then they would learn how to dress.

"I don't have principles, and I consider any comment otherwise to be both threatening and insulting" - Dogma

"No, sorry, synonymous does not mean same".-Dogma

"If I say "I will hug you" I am threatening you" -Dogma 
   
Made in us
Wraith







Fantasy gets mostly a pass because of magic and suspension of disbelief. Not sure Sci-Fi universes get the same freedom. People like their Sci-fi to make sense.


Because sentient fungus whose guns, tanks, and spaceships work because of "if you believe in magic, clap your hands!" make a ton of sense. Fighting with swords when firearms exist also makes sense.



If people liked the fluff, bad models would get a pass. If the fluff is terrible, people won't even buy good models.


Grey Knights and to a lesser extent, Necrons, and to a greater extent, Ultramarines, say "hello".

Now, if the rules are terrible and the models are good, and people are stuck in the "I can only use models produced for a specific game to play that specific game", then sure.

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2012/04/14 04:40:32


 
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




I hated the Veermyn at first, but with the paint and more models being shown, they've grown on me. The 2 problems I see with the models is Mantic opting to go with an early 1900's ray gun theme and a lack of boots. Why does Mantic refuse to give models proper combat footwear?

Also the argument over which tabletop game is more believable is silly. It's a game and it's fiction. As far as aesthetics or fluff, that's a personal preference. And frankly both games have their fair share of terrible lore (well in Mantic's case it's almost non-existent) and horrible models or concepts. GW just has the advantage of being in business longer and having a larger range of products that can dilute the effect of bad models.

Unfortunately I think Mantic kind of blew it by not being able to keep the costs of their models down for a longer period of time and by deciding to do a mass ramp up in releases (which probably is partially the cause for the higher prices). But at least they still offer the discounts for buying in bulk through the army deals.


Back on topic, does anyone know what the next race is supposed to be, or when Mantic will rush it out the door?
   
Made in au
Owns Whole Set of Skullz Techpriests






Versteckt in den Schatten deines Geistes.

The squad of 5 where three of them are holding their arms up parallel with the ground is just silly. What an awkward pose! And they don't look like rats, they look like pigs with those masks on.


I actually like the name - Veer'Myn - because, I think, it's a name that is entirely self aware. But the models themselves? Eeeck... no. Bad.

   
Made in au
Nimble Dark Rider




I actually think they are well suited for the project pandora boardgame. But unlike genestealers will not translate well outside of the corridor setting.
   
Made in gb
Oberleutnant





AlexHolker wrote:
ArbeitsSchu wrote:Because no person-sized threat ever managed to successfully hide from the authorities or endanger people now, even under threat of extermination? There are no tunnel or cave systems in existence today containing people who successfully avoid the authorities? No credible threats from guerillas that happen to be the same size as person-sized rats? All people-sized threats are easily destroyed now?

As well as lacking the strengths of a rat, Veermyn also lack the strengths of human guerrillas. A human guerrilla can pretend to be someone we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat cannot. A human guerrilla has allies within the populace we don't want to exterminate wholesale, a five foot tall rat does not.

Have I missed the article where Mantic explained that giant space rats breed less than regular ones? No, so where do you get the idea that they are 'less capable of replenishing their numbers'? Rats breed, and eat, and that's about it. Why would giant rats not do much the same?

Because a giant rat would need to eat more and would take longer to reach maturity. A giant, intelligent rat would take longer still. And these rats clearly don't just breed and eat, or they wouldn't have guns and drills.

I'm intrigued as to why you think zombies are not a 'credible threat' either (other than being fictional of course.)

A zombie is just a slow, stupid human that can only reproduce by winning a fight against something faster, smarter and more heavily armed than it.


Which is why zombies do so well, because so very few people are smarter than they, whether armed or not. Look at how stupid 'people' are.

You're making assumptions about the breeding cycle of these animals based on nothing, as far as I can see. Supposition? As far as I can tell, the fluff for these creatures that they are bigger, more intelligent rats. It would seem that the intention of the creator is that these things have retained the advantages of being a rat, such as a rapid breeding cycle. Any loss of advantage due to size is assumably counter-balanced by the introduction of humaniform intelligence and tool-use. A rat that is just 'bigger' might not stand much chance, but a rat that is bigger and shoots back at you is just a smidgin more of an issue. A rat that apparently doesn't have much of an issue with vacuum, and has a bloody great big drill might be even more of an issue.


"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious—makes you so sick at heart—that you can't take part. You can't even passively take part. And you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop. And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all" Mario Savio 
   
 
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