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I almost bought enough Elysian Snipers and an HQ to field a small Vanguard Detachment this morning when I first saw the email.

Then realized I would be spending nearly $200 USD to splash ~170 points into other Imperium armies. It sucks they're going, but I fully understand why.

 gorgon wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zingraff wrote:
I don't understand why they're doing this to themselves.

I would wager if we had sales data and the cost of refreshing the molds it would make sense.

And I wonder what that sales data looks like given the scope of Chinese and Russian recasters of those old lines. I guarantee that has put a major hurt on their bottom line.

*snip*

Now, dumping SA decals...gonna file that one under 'two guys in a garage'.

Same with the brass etch. I actually emailed them a few times begging for a more genric infantry etch set (even pointing out whcih parts from the various existing sheets would go well); one of the biggest killers with those things is having a bunch of big pieces you can only use on tank panels, which discourages multiple purchases.

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 gorgon wrote:

 em_en_oh_pee wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 Zingraff wrote:
I don't understand why they're doing this to themselves.

I would wager if we had sales data and the cost of refreshing the molds it would make sense.

And I wonder what that sales data looks like given the scope of Chinese and Russian recasters of those old lines. I guarantee that has put a major hurt on their bottom line.

That's certainly and unfortunately true. When they do this with models, it's basically FW saying 'we give up, you guys make them.' Of course, eye-watering prices tends to drive people elsewhere. Not saying that action is justified, mind you...just saying there's a likely cause.

Now, dumping SA decals...gonna file that one under 'two guys in a garage'.

I am such a foolish fanboy that I am holding out hope it is just them dumping in favor of a better updated sheet (or ideally, sheets), like how they updated most of the Legions. It probably isn't though.

Maybe. You never really know what those guys in the garage are up to.

Wasn’t the entire SA range the project of one sculptor who’s no longer with FW? Without the sculptor or Alan Bligh, I’m more surprised they even designed the new tank than I am that they seem to be phasing out the range.

Just going by activity discussing SA tactics, it’s never been a hugely popular army.

The new Solar Auxilia vehicle gets released on the day that the transfers to decorate it get discontinued :(

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
The new Solar Auxilia vehicle gets released on the day that the transfers to decorate it get discontinued :(

Maybe there'll be a new sheet. Or maybe they recently decided to start killing off the line, but are releasing the tank to make it available to current players and recoup sculpting costs. It's hard to know.

Forgeworld is making some really stupid decisions. The vehicle looks great, but why are they discontinuing transfers?

Why can't they just sell the transfers as a digital download, or even make them a free pdf?

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Why can't they just sell the transfers as a digital download, or even make them a free pdf?

What would that accomplish?

 Midnightdeathblade wrote:
Forgeworld is making some really stupid decisions. The vehicle looks great, but why are they discontinuing transfers?

I know! Discontinuing transfers, the medics and rapiers leaves the whole Solar Auxilia line looking like it has an uncertain future. It’s like they don’t want people to start a Solar Auxilia army now.

Just a thought. The big boxed sets for Prospero and Calth have been a big hit for GW in terms of sales volumes. It makes sense that they'd aim for the hat trick with a third box doing plastic MK II marines (to finish off kitting out the White Scars, etc)

If we think of what other Horus Heresy kits would be small and easy enough to do in plastic for the large boxset, the Rapier is the one kit that immediately jumps to mind. It's used in two armies and has a variety of options. You could even potentially work it into 40K without too much hassle.

I really would not be at all surprised to see the stock for the resin Rapiers phased out over the next year in expectation of a plastic release.

 Haighus wrote:
I did love some of the older Elysian rules though, like having actual sniper teams with a sniper and spotter (who increased the range of the sniper to 60"). Something they should bring into the AM codex in my opinion. Bullpup lasguns were also a really cool idea.

You know, thinking about it now... I wonder if Tempestus release didn't kill the SA. Similar aesthetic, only much more detailed, doesn't need preparation in hazmat gear, can be had in every store, not in one single location with hugely expensive shipping, and most importantly, costs pennies compared to SA. Ditto for Elysians, Van Saar have similar style guns and gear, just replace their heads with IG style one, give them surplus Cadian backpacks, done, drop regiment costing tiny fraction of FW prices.

The thing that made me laugh, though, is discontinuation of these. Just count how much $ you need to arm this. Who would be stupid enough to buy HM when a dime a dozen plastic model toy rockets work just as well...?

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Why can't they just sell the transfers as a digital download, or even make them a free pdf?

What would that accomplish?

It would drive up sales (such as they are)?

Though yeah, upon thinking on this a bit, probably would be mostly used by cheapskates buying toxic chinese junk instead, so not much point. Sucks for legitimate customers who couldn't get genuine article in time, tho.

 Irbis wrote:
Who would be stupid enough to buy HM when a dime a dozen plastic model toy rockets work just as well...?

Someone who wants the 40k look for their model? Weapons from historical kits are cheap, but they don't have the right proportions for 40k and almost always look out of place. I can understand going that route if you just want to get your model WYSIWYG as cheaply as possible, but there's a reason I just bought a pile of them to arm my future aircraft.

It would drive up sales (such as they are)?

Though yeah, upon thinking on this a bit, probably would be mostly used by cheapskates buying toxic chinese junk instead, so not much point. Sucks for legitimate customers who couldn't get genuine article in time, tho.

The issue isn't recasters, it's that decal sheet PDFs are worthless to most people. Normal printers don't have white ink (or gold, for that part of the SA sheet) so you couldn't duplicate the sheet even if you had the PDF. You'd need to take your designs to a professional print shop with specialized tools to do it, and if you're that dedicated you probably have the skills to duplicate the designs as well.

HM are easy, since who actually puts the plastic ones on the valkyrie. The harder part is the pylon itself to put them on the aircraft.

 Ketara wrote:
Just a thought. The big boxed sets for Prospero and Calth have been a big hit for GW in terms of sales volumes. It makes sense that they'd aim for the hat trick with a third box doing plastic MK II marines (to finish off kitting out the White Scars, etc)

If we think of what other Horus Heresy kits would be small and easy enough to do in plastic for the large boxset, the Rapier is the one kit that immediately jumps to mind. It's used in two armies and has a variety of options. You could even potentially work it into 40K without too much hassle.

I really would not be at all surprised to see the stock for the resin Rapiers phased out over the next year in expectation of a plastic release.

I've actually been wondering for a long time if we'll see plastic Rapiers for the Guard and/or Scions, Skitarii, and Marines of all flavors personally.

For Marines it would be a thing they could add a frame to and have a plastic Thunderfire Cannon, coupled with a plastic Techmarine sold with it.
For Guard/Scions, it could have a frame with Heavy Weapons and be taken as a Heavy Support choice.
For Skitarii, it could have the same and be a Heavy Support choice with some weird arcane weaponry.

 Peregrine wrote:


The issue isn't recasters, it's that decal sheet PDFs are worthless to most people. Normal printers don't have white ink (or gold, for that part of the SA sheet) so you couldn't duplicate the sheet even if you had the PDF. You'd need to take your designs to a professional print shop with specialized tools to do it, and if you're that dedicated you probably have the skills to duplicate the designs as well.

That's nonsense. You can simply "print" any white sections as clear, and paint the area you intend to apply the decal to white. People print decals on their basic home printers that way all the time.

 Irbis wrote:

 Haighus wrote:
I did love some of the older Elysian rules though, like having actual sniper teams with a sniper and spotter (who increased the range of the sniper to 60"). Something they should bring into the AM codex in my opinion. Bullpup lasguns were also a really cool idea.

You know, thinking about it now... I wonder if Tempestus release didn't kill the SA. Similar aesthetic, only much more detailed, doesn't need preparation in hazmat gear, can be had in every store, not in one single location with hugely expensive shipping, and most importantly, costs pennies compared to SA. Ditto for Elysians, Van Saar have similar style guns and gear, just replace their heads with IG style one, give them surplus Cadian backpacks, done, drop regiment costing tiny fraction of FW prices.

The thing that made me laugh, though, is discontinuation of these. Just count how much $ you need to arm this. Who would be stupid enough to buy HM when a dime a dozen plastic model toy rockets work just as well...?

I'll give you that these two might be a touch similar, but there are a lot of fundamental differences not the least of which are the weapon options which make Scions a poor substitue for SA in 30k which, you know, is where SA are supposed to be.



But these two? Nah



Prepping resin in a hazmat suit? Hyperbole much?

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's nonsense. You can simply "print" any white sections as clear, and paint the area you intend to apply the decal to white. People print decals on their basic home printers that way all the time.

That's completely useless when you're talking about something like a white regiment number/icon. And, from what I've seen of this approach, it often looks like trash because the white shows through the colored areas of the decal.

As an example, the lion icon on this Chimera I did is from the SA transfer sheet. There's no way to do that with a home printer, period.

(image spoilered for size)

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Why can't they just sell the transfers as a digital download, or even make them a free pdf?

What would that accomplish?

It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

Again, you can not use the PDF because your printer is not capable of duplicating it.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

Again, you can not use the PDF because your printer is not capable of duplicating it.

Not with that attitude.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

Again, you can not use the PDF because your printer is not capable of duplicating it.

So? Just go to a specialised printer then. If you really need those decals, its a preferable option to not having any possibilities at all.

Real shame about the Elysians as they were very cool and havd just thought about starting a force. Have a squad of ten troopers that might be used as counts as scions now.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
That's nonsense. You can simply "print" any white sections as clear, and paint the area you intend to apply the decal to white. People print decals on their basic home printers that way all the time.

That's completely useless when you're talking about something like a white regiment number/icon. And, from what I've seen of this approach, it often looks like trash because the white shows through the colored areas of the decal.

Ah, so we've gone from "can't be done" to "there are specific instances where it can't be done, and I'm going to assert it would look bad anyway even if it could be done even though exactly the same issue would apply to commercial decals if they weren't opaque enough". Any technique "looks like trash" if you do it wrong

As an example, the lion icon on this Chimera I did is from the SA transfer sheet. There's no way to do that with a home printer, period.

-snip-

Well, yes there is - by putting an outline around it, but yeah if you wanted it 100% white with no framing it couldn't be done on a home printer as a decal. It can absolutely be done on a home printer though as a stencil, either by printing in a pale grey to paint over or printing on normal paper and cutting out to paint within, which digital versions of the decal sheets could be used as the basis for.

Regardless, you know damn well nobody is asking for these sheets to be preserved for monochrome letters and numbers, and "you might have to get creative to use the white ones" doesn't make the entire sheet worthless when well under a third of the stuff on it is plain white, so you're just being disingenuous and contrarian as per usual.

 Yodhrin wrote:
Ah, so we've gone from "can't be done" to "there are specific instances where it can't be done, and I'm going to assert it would look bad anyway even if it could be done even though exactly the same issue would apply to commercial decals if they weren't opaque enough". Any technique "looks like trash" if you do it wrong

It's hardly "specific instances" when it's a problem for the majority of decals on the SA sheet that have white areas in them. And it's not at all the same with commercial decals because, aside from having better ink quality in general, they're using white ink instead of putting the decal on top of a painted white area.

Well, yes there is - by putting an outline around it, but yeah if you wanted it 100% white with no framing it couldn't be done on a home printer as a decal.

An outline around it, especially the kind of thick outline that could successfully mask off the white background, is a completely different appearance. And if you're willing to settle for something that different then why do you care if you have the official PDF? Just make your own design that meets your requirements. You'd have to edit the official PDF anyway, so it's not like you're saving much time with it.

It can absolutely be done on a home printer though as a stencil, either by printing in a pale grey to paint over or printing on normal paper and cutting out to paint within, which digital versions of the decal sheets could be used as the basis for.

It absolutely can not. The lines on there are way too fine to cut out as a mask, we're talking about hair-thin lines that are barely thicker than the edge of the knife you'd be cutting with. And if you have the level of freehand ability required to paint that symbol, even with a decal as a guide, you don't need the decals in the first place.

Regardless, you know damn well nobody is asking for these sheets to be preserved for monochrome letters and numbers

No, nobody at all. The fact that I bought a sheet for exactly that reason and am disappointed that it sold out before I could get a spare must be GW propaganda.

and "you might have to get creative to use the white ones" doesn't make the entire sheet worthless when well under a third of the stuff on it is plain white, so you're just being disingenuous and contrarian as per usual.

A third is plain white, a large percentage is stuff with large white/light areas and shading that can't be duplicated with a white background, and a smaller percentage is gold that also can't be done on a home printer. The parts that could be duplicated on a home printer, even with your suggestion of using a white background and clear decal areas, are the ~1/3 that is plain black markings and some of the two-color symbols like the white scorpion on a dark diamond.

Well I just bought a bunch of Elysian stuff to complete what I needed, but it is a shame
to see them go this way. These figures are still some of the best FW ever produced
in my opinion.

But with the GW dumb move to just release rules for troops and options
that have actual models in sale, we may also see the drop-troop regiment
vanish altogether in the future...

Oh and promises of keeping them are of little value it seems.
I am looking at you FW: where are the missing datasheets
for the missing ork itemms we were promised
when the index came out?



I feel quite pissed right now.

It's a bummer, but even when threatened with never getting of the Elysians...I still couldn't pull the trigger. The price is just very high for what you get, and I feel like the mainline GW stuff gets better and better by the moment, and more competitive prices.

And non-GW folks are nipping at both their heels.

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

Again, you can not use the PDF because your printer is not capable of duplicating it.

People have been making their own transfers for ages. And who's to say that his printer can't do it?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
It would "accomplish" keeping the transfers/artwork available for people to have and use. A vastly preferable option to FW's choice to simply take them away forever.

Again, you can not use the PDF because your printer is not capable of duplicating it.

People have been making their own transfers for ages. And who's to say that his printer can't do it?

Because there are very, very, few printers that print white.

So you'll have to print on white paper, and then you'll have to finely cut out your decals with inhuman precision to make them look anything like the originals.

And thus that's a reason not to do it?