Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Right thisd just about wraps up my Red Blok get to know, thankyou. Now on to the Therians.

We will start with what I have got:

Infantry
3x Full squad Storm golems, with two Overseers
1x base squad Assault medusae
1x Nucleus Gun team
1x Flamer team

Heavy Infantry
1x Assault Goliaths
2x Bane Goliaths

Striders
3x Wraith Golgoths
1x Baal Golgoth

Heroes
Tiamat


Now what I am looking to get just because UI like the models, on in the base of the Baal the price.

1x 8 Storm arachn
1x Grim Golems and Atis-Astarte
1x (second) Baal Golgoth

As men tioned in my other thread I dont like the Hekat and Succubus models and think the Creation routine looks a bit overpowered. if/when I make hekats I will be scratchbuilding something out of bionicles, something that doesnt look like a barrel riding three spikey space hoppers.

So on to my questions for Therians.

1. Have I got anything like enough basic infantry.
Roughly what rastio of squads to Golgoths would you recommend?

2. Cypher list and the Authority test disadvantage.
A two part question. This looks like my 'favourite' purely on the case that it can use all my big nasty striders and the only downside is lack of slots of * and *** infantry, which is no disadvantage as I am low on both. Now the disadvan tage of Cypher is that you cannot challenge for initiative and I am hearing that many players like to burn six points on Authority to get the first shot.
First part of the question is it really worthwhile buring so many LP to get the first shot, in general not just for Therians. From what I gather you only get to shoot first with one unit, two if you burn another 2LP.
Second am I really shooting myself in the foot by going Cyphers, giving all the routines to all the overseers (except those which are commander only).

3. On Routines.
Can someone give me a low down on the full set of routines, with particular highlight to those which effect model slection such as spawned units (if there any more other than Hekats) or units which specifically benefit morte than others. I can see all this for myself soon, but if my army is missing something I will need to know sooner.
It would be helpful to get a theian routines 101 at this point anyway so i know what to expect.

4. H/Babel and other lists.
As with most of the aermies I am building I cannot viably make an army for every list . I know that with my current selection i cannot make a Web Strider or Warrior list at all. However h/Babel in particular looks promising as I get two vehicles per platoon without requiring a * strider and the selection of base infantry looks far more interesting. The 2LP to activate looks harsh if I get snipered, but then every Overseer is a hero yes, so its the Arachn and Goliaths only who suffer. Tell me more about this faction please.

5. Golgoth guns.
So I get three Wraith golgoths, I am thinking about removing and pinning/magnetising the guns on two of the walkers. This gives me three Wraiths or one of each type of Golgoth. Now i have already heard the warning that Initiation boxset golgoths are glued more firmly than the inddividual ones and are not designed for customisation, but those instructions are no challen ge for a veteran model maker and gamers of systems that dont offer pre assembled miniatures.
So my remaining worry is whether it is worthwhile. for a start customisation has the dubuious extension if adding 50pts to the value of the Golgoths, The Poltergeist is 50pts more expensive even though in total it is the same number of machines and exactly the same guns in a different order. I am guessing this is because the twin sniper Incubus gains more from synergy of weapons than it loses by having two 'weaker' guns. But enough of guesses. Your thoughts please on the Wraith Golgoth variants, is it worth converting them over?

More later, probably as a result of answers given and further digging. Though feel free to offer general tips on what every Therian player ought to know.

1) Any questions about having "enough" stuff comes down to platoon patterns. You don't have enough stuff for higher-point games if you cannot fill platoons.

Most platoons are three infantry units, usually two Type * or ** and one Type ***, and two AFV units, usually one Type * or ** and one Type ** or ***.

It looks like you have Three Type ** Infantry, one Type * Infantry, two Type ** Support teams (think infantry slots), three Type *** Infantry, four Type ** AFVs (including Tiamat), and one Type *** AFV.

That should be enough to run most of the platoon patterns, I think. The lack of Type * AFV's may limit you, but without the book in front of me I'm not sure.


2) I'm not so sure about Cyphers anymore. Back in the day, Cyphers were the faction to run because Overseers could spam Type * Striders. Now, the Cypher advantage pretty much boils down only to Cypher Company Commanders being able to cast any Routine on any unit in your army. For every other Overseer in a Cypher army the Cypher advantage has been rendered meaningless because Rackham ruled that only Company Commanders may use the Creation routine.

I, personally, am not sure that Cyphers are even worth running anymore. Giving up the ability to ever take first turn in AT-43 seems a big price to pay, particularly in the first round. If you make your opponent go first then you can counter every activation he makes and hopefully whittle down his forces right away.

Asking whether it is worth wagering lots of LP on Authority tests really depends on the mission, who you are playing, what your army is, what their army is. If they don't have the range to reach out and really hurt you first turn, it may not be. If you have lots of indirect fire weapons that can reach out then it may be worth wagering for first turn so that you can suppress his infantry as soon as they walk on the table, and effectively take them out of the second round altogether.

There's no definitive answer to this, but why worry about it? Just play around with the factions until you find the one you like - and really, no one can tell you how you are going to play AT-43, Orlanth. I was told many times at the beginning that I just needed to play some games, and it turns out that advice was absolutely correct. Some of these answers you need to just find out for yourself by playing.


3) I am sure someone may run down all the routines, but if you have the rulebook you can answer this for yourself, and you probably ought to handle it that way. The rulebook is $5. Just pick one up and read it, and you're all set. They're not going to handle how you purchase units, as Routines aren't unit-specific.


4) I've never played Babel lists because Babylon/Nina Zero are some of the most broken units in the game from what people tell me. Basically, you pay LP to become a moving sniper, and snipers in AT-43 are disgusting. Unlike in 40K where only a few models ever have the ability to truly "snipe," in AT-43 every army has their snipers, and you can pick out Medics, Officers, or whoever and take them down first.

The fact that you cannot move in order to snipe provides some balance...even with spending LP to remove that restriction, it doesn't balance it out.


5. I am also a veteran model-maker, and I can tell you that I still found converting those Op Damocles Golgoths challenging. It's not all about the washes acting as glue - my Golgoth weapons were plastic-glued into place. I had to break one off and then had to make new pegs and carve new holes into the weapon and frame to make the conversions work. If you know how to do it, great, but it'll take some work.

Incubus Golgoths are great as snipers. Two sniped shots at very high Penetration values = dead mans.

One advantage to having variants to field is if you run the Fusion routine - take two Type * striders from a single unit and replace them with one Type ** strider where one of the original two once stood. Fuse a Poltergeist if you need anti-infantry, fuse an Incubus if you need to take down some armor and/or start sniping, go Wraith if you don't need one or the other more or less.

Of course, to do this you're going to need some Type * AFVs to start with and run in units...

@Cypher

They are still fun if you like their style of play. Clarifying that only Commanders can use certain routines (you could deduct it from the rules, but you needed a chart to fully grasp it) is not much of a problem and keeps you from spamming Type * AFV. I do play Cyphers and don think that tehy are missing something.

@routines

Should help you for a starter

@Babel
Strong, but not broken. And since the other Frostbite Heros are equally strong they balance each other.
Babel gets Sniper ability while moving, but only for two shots, not enough to unbalance the game. It can´t be compared to 40K since you have way mor scenery on the table.

@Conversion
If you do know how to use a hand-drill and how to glue a plastic/metal rod into place there shouldn't be a problem.

Orlanth wrote:Right thisd just about wraps up my Red Blok get to know, thankyou. Now on to the Therians.

...

As men tioned in my other thread I dont like the Hekat and Succubus models and think the Creation routine looks a bit overpowered. if/when I make hekats I will be scratchbuilding something out of bionicles, something that doesnt look like a barrel riding three spikey space hoppers.

All that has been said about building a Red Blok army applies to therians as well, However therians play differently to RB for sure, Therians can shoot at longer distances and kill something that RB certainly lacks. SO you can build a very shooty army or a close combat or a mixed, in the end its up to you....

Cairnius is wromng when he said that most platoon are "balanced" thats not totally correct, in some platoons you may need 4 infantry slots and 1 AFV. Please refer to the Army book to see what fdo you need.... in the end it will allways come to prefrences

There is one therian platoon that requires a type * AFV with bno other option, so in bigger games you will not be able to fill that platoon (and start another) if you dont have a type * AFV unit.

Orlanth wrote:
1. Have I got anything like enough basic infantry.
Roughly what rastio of squads to Golgoths would you recommend?

As said to red blok... ratios are not 1:2 if you are asking... go check the platoon get some minis and see if you like it and specially which sort of AFV do you like.... proxy if necessary but dont ask for ratios

Orlanth wrote:
2. Cypher list and the Authority test disadvantage.
A two part question. This looks like my 'favourite' purely on the case that it can use all my big nasty striders and the only downside is lack of slots of * and *** infantry, which is no disadvantage as I am low on both. Now the disadvan tage of Cypher is that you cannot challenge for initiative and I am hearing that many players like to burn six points on Authority to get the first shot.
First part of the question is it really worthwhile buring so many LP to get the first shot, in general not just for Therians. From what I gather you only get to shoot first with one unit, two if you burn another 2LP.
Second am I really shooting myself in the foot by going Cyphers, giving all the routines to all the overseers (except those which are commander only).

Cairnius is wrong again, Cyphers is the most common used platoon formation, all platoons can only create 1 hekat/succubus per turn agreed, but in the cyphers you dont need your company commander to be IN an AFV to be able to create them... so even if killed any "new" company commander can create..... thats 200/250? AP per turn for free...
Dont forget the Fusion routine....
Actually ALL routines are better in a cypher commander using them to where they are needed...


Warriors advantage is "ok" but nothing life changing as not ALL units can have Overseers
Web Striders advatage is good but not being able to reduce the cost of Routines to 0 is not lige changing either

Orlanth wrote:
3. On Routines.
Can someone give me a low down on the full set of routines, with particular highlight to those which effect model slection such as spawned units (if there any more other than Hekats) or units which specifically benefit morte than others. I can see all this for myself soon, but if my army is missing something I will need to know sooner.
It would be helpful to get a theian routines 101 at this point anyway so i know what to expect.

Done by Duncan Idaho in a previous post

Orlanth wrote:
4. H/Babel and other lists.
As with most of the aermies I am building I cannot viably make an army for every list . I know that with my current selection i cannot make a Web Strider or Warrior list at all. However h/Babel in particular looks promising as I get two vehicles per platoon without requiring a * strider and the selection of base infantry looks far more interesting. The 2LP to activate looks harsh if I get snipered, but then every Overseer is a hero yes, so its the Arachn and Goliaths only who suffer. Tell me more about this faction please.

As mentioned... Cyphers are more useful to me!

Orlanth wrote:
5. Golgoth guns.
So I get three Wraith golgoths, I am thinking about removing and pinning/magnetising the guns on two of the walkers. This gives me three Wraiths or one of each type of Golgoth. Now i have already heard the warning that Initiation boxset golgoths are glued more firmly than the inddividual ones and are not designed for customisation, but those instructions are no challen ge for a veteran model maker and gamers of systems that dont offer pre assembled miniatures.
So my remaining worry is whether it is worthwhile. for a start customisation has the dubuious extension if adding 50pts to the value of the Golgoths, The Poltergeist is 50pts more expensive even though in total it is the same number of machines and exactly the same guns in a different order. I am guessing this is because the twin sniper Incubus gains more from synergy of weapons than it loses by having two 'weaker' guns. But enough of guesses. Your thoughts please on the Wraith Golgoth variants, is it worth converting them over?

More later, probably as a result of answers given and further digging. Though feel free to offer general tips on what every Therian player ought to know.

I play incubuss or poltergeist only.... no more Wraith I prefer my golgoths to have specialisation, so I need to convert..... Im ashamed to say convert as it implies some skills....skills needed to change weapons are 0... so you just unplug and plug the other weapon... with exception of the Operation Damocles Golgoths, ALL other type **/*** Golgoths have removable weapons.... if you cannot remove them in 5 seconds, your modelling skills are less than a three year old kid... You dont need to magnetize they are female/male, and fit perfectly

Cairnius wrote:1) Any questions about having "enough" stuff comes down to platoon patterns. You don't have enough stuff for higher-point games if you cannot fill platoons.

Sure that much anyonwe who has seen the platoon orgs can worik out fro themselves. What I was asking was more subtle.

First you can start a platoon and not fininsh it. So in a game where you cannot really afford more than one-two platoons you can fill a platoon anyway then get the ! mandatory choice and then cherry pick the units from the second platoon, Say all the strider slots or all the heavy infantry.
Second you can buiy cheap units to pack plattons legally in order to unlciok more platoons and buy expensive units of your choice.
This is where the ratios come in. Say a list has three infantry and two strider slots, you could fill it up evenly but you could also take miniumu suize infantry slots and cheap support teams for all the platoons you can afford then the striders only for the last platoon. This way you can imbalance heavily towards striders while obeying the platoon org rules. likewise you need not spend a */** vehicle slot on a decent ** strider or squadron of striders, but on one * vehicle, the very cheapest avaialbe. This is legal and allows you to unlokc another platoon of max sized infantry.

Thus I am looking for a rough idea of ratios.

Cairnius wrote:2) I'm not so sure about Cyphers anymore. Back in the day, Cyphers were the faction to run because Overseers could spam Type * Striders. Now, the Cypher advantage pretty much boils down only to Cypher Company Commanders being able to cast any Routine on any unit in your army. For every other Overseer in a Cypher army the Cypher advantage has been rendered meaningless because Rackham ruled that only Company Commanders may use the Creation routine.

I like Cyphers for the choice of units in a platoon, the actual faction advantage I havent looked into much.

Cairnius wrote:
There's no definitive answer to this, but why worry about it? Just play around with the factions until you find the one you like - and really, no one can tell you how you are going to play AT-43, Orlanth. I was told many times at the beginning that I just needed to play some games, and it turns out that advice was absolutely correct. Some of these answers you need to just find out for yourself by playing.


3) I am sure someone may run down all the routines, but if you have the rulebook you can answer this for yourself, and you probably ought to handle it that way. The rulebook is $5. Just pick one up and read it, and you're all set. They're not going to handle how you purchase units, as Routines aren't unit-specific.

I will group these two responces together. I have been very specific to say, repeatedly that I have not yet got all the AT-43 I need, and those items that I bought have yet to arrive. I dont reslly want to wait until a few games later, when I have everything and the firesale is over to know that I should have had this unit instead of that one, and that such and such specialist is only good in pairs. Its too late then.

Cairnius wrote:
5. I am also a veteran model-maker, and I can tell you that I still found converting those Op Damocles Golgoths challenging. It's not all about the washes acting as glue - my Golgoth weapons were plastic-glued into place. I had to break one off and then had to make new pegs and carve new holes into the weapon and frame to make the conversions work. If you know how to do it, great, but it'll take some work.

It looks like a job for pinning, a bit of work but no problem. The only issue here is matching paintjobs, any idea exactly what paints were used, you toucherd up some minis so you might have discovered what paints were in the palette (most companies buy paint from the same factory sources). All I have fouind out so far is that the Red Blok use what we know as GW Terracotta for the red. Any lowdown on the therians paints, or for any other for that matter?

Incubus Golgoths are great as snipers. Two sniped shots at very high Penetration values = dead mans.

Cairnius wrote:
One advantage to having variants to field is if you run the Fusion routine - take two Type * striders from a single unit and replace them with one Type ** strider where one of the original two once stood. Fuse a Poltergeist if you need anti-infantry, fuse an Incubus if you need to take down some armor and/or start sniping, go Wraith if you don't need one or the other more or less.

Of course, to do this you're going to need some Type * AFVs to start with and run in units...

Yeas fusion with an open selection of possilbe choice vehicles makes the idea of taking (scratchbuilt) hekats in the list very appealing. Thankyou for that.

I heard that Urash does something about grouping two single summoned Hekats so they count as part of the same unit for purposes of Fusion. Have I heard right, also if so can Urash group two Wraiths go I can Fuse them into a Baal?

I have also worked out a nerw question regarding H/Babel lists.

If I give a Golgoth an Alpha and the Golgoth is destroyed, do I get a free Overseer on foot? After all the Golgoth is automatically piloted by a hero due to faction advantage and heroes eject when their vehicles are destroyed.

I feel I am missing somrthing here, or we would be told which Oversser type the ejected hero reperesents.

An Alpha is only an officer, not a hero. The answer in this case is: No he can´t eject.

I heard that Urash does something about grouping two single summoned Hekats so they count as part of the same unit for purposes of Fusion. Have I heard right, also if so can Urash group two Wraiths go I can Fuse them into a Baal?

Yes, he can.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:An Alpha is only an officer, not a hero. The answer in this case is: No he can´t eject.

Quote Therians H/Babel army list from Easy AT-43

Advantage:
H/Babel overseers benefit from the hero rules

Those Overseers are only heros with regard to what's written in the rule book, i.e. damage etc. In order to eject a hero needs the special ability "Heroic Pilot" and since Overseers do not have this ability, you will not get an Overseer on foot after the AFV is destroyed.

Right I am about done with Therians and Red Blok.

Now it is time for the return to this topic and ironing out my queries pre build for U.N.A. So straight on to the questions.

1. Laser designators. How does this work, is it automatic or do I need a roll to hit like a markerlights?

2. More on laser designators. If I give laser designatros to a Tac Arm squad, who has them, the sgt or everyone? Also can they pick a target each per surviving squad member or just one collectively. Can they be split fired?

3. Even more on laser designators. Lt Epstone, if I give her one (sic) do I have to upgrade the entire squad?

4. Final question on laser designators. Do you get a cover save to avoid the effects? After all they cant paint you if they cant find you.

5. Cpt Newton in Morningstar lists. Can she have double repair, or is the ability lost?

6. Lancelots, borkan? When I noticed that laser designators can make indirect fire weapons autohit, two Lancelots can fire an autohiting rain of four shells yielding a precise targeted 10cm radius template and two hits each. reading this right yes with 4x 3cm blasts. Now these are for some reason the cheapest of the Fire Toad mods being 150pts, and yet they look to me like Sierps without error, but no LP drain. Am I missing something, why isnt everyone raving about these striders?

Thats about all the questions I have for UNA, at least for now. I am picking up more and more now, and getting a feel of the game enough to plan my purchases with a reasonable degree of assurance I am getting the right stuff for the right reasons.

1. Laser designators. How does this work, is it automatic or do I need a roll to hit like a markerlights?

Automatic, but you need a LOS and need to announce it.

2. More on laser designators. If I give laser designatros to a Tac Arm squad, who has them, the sgt or everyone? Also can they pick a target each per surviving squad member or just one collectively. Can they be split fired?

Whole unit gets ist. They target one target unit as a team, like with standard weapons. They can´t split the laser marker.

3. Even more on laser designators. Lt Epstone, if I give her one (sic) do I have to upgrade the entire squad?

Death Dealer have designators as a standard equipment, the same goes for Epstone.

4. Final question on laser designators. Do you get a cover save to avoid the effects? After all they cant paint you if they cant find you.

As long as they can mark parts of you they designate you as a target. No cover if this happens. If you are completely hidden, they can´t mark you.

5. Cpt Newton in Morningstar lists. Can she have double repair, or is the ability lost?

No, she can´t get better than she already is .

6. Lancelots, borkan? When I noticed that laser designators can make indirect fire weapons autohit, two Lancelots can fire an autohiting rain of four shells yielding a precise targeted 10cm radius template and two hits each. reading this right yes with 4x 3cm blasts. Now these are for some reason the cheapest of the Fire Toad mods being 150pts, and yet they look to me like Sierps without error, but no LP drain. Am I missing something, why isnt everyone raving about these striders?

Because they are Infantry-only. And you still need to roll for a hit, since the designators only replace the LOS. Also, compared with the rest of the UNA they have to get rather close to hit.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Death Dealer have designators as a standard equipment, the same goes for Epstone.

The army builder let me take laser designators for Epstone seperately, I thought it might save some points.

So you are (indirectly) saying that is a glitch in Easy AT-43?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Because they are Infantry-only. And you still need to roll for a hit, since the designators only replace the LOS. Also, compared with the rest of the UNA they have to get rather close to hit.

So the laser designators dont cause autohits for artillery. Ok read that wrong......Hold on, as indirect doesnt need LOS anyway what benefit is there?

In any case no autohit means that Lancelots are not as good as they seemed. What about Iron Rain?

Indirect need a LOS, but one partly visible soldier is enough.

An Iron Rain is the Toad version of a Death Dealer.

No, it isn´t a glitch. I checked it back. In an older PDF the designator was standard, in Frostbite it is optional. The old PDF was a special DD-army list which now has become more or less obsolete with frostbite.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

2. More on laser designators. If I give laser designatros to a Tac Arm squad, who has them, the sgt or everyone? Also can they pick a target each per surviving squad member or just one collectively. Can they be split fired?

Whole unit gets ist. They target one target unit as a team, like with standard weapons. They can´t split the laser marker.

Hey Duncan, are you sure abiout it, i got the impression it was 1 Laser designator per fighter, although i have not the UNA book with me

Dang, shouldn´t try to answer three questions in one sentence around midnight:

- Every TacArm gets one marker and every single of them can target a different target.

- Laser targeter works for them only if they have rockets (Jam TacArms). But since they already do have a line of sight it does not really help them. Another Jam TacArm unit might be happy about it, though.

- They have two salvos, one for each arm-mounted weapon. This can be split (shoot-move-shoot)/aimed at two different units. But besides from the RL don´t get any help from the lasers.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Dang, shouldn´t try to answer three questions in one sentence around midnight:

- Every TacArm gets one marker and every single of them can target a different target.

Each laser designators targets a UNIT not a fighter, so you can target 3 units in total

So you have painting lasers that always hit, have unlimited range, target one whole unit per fighter and you can use it to lock on your missiles. They should at least be considered one of the two targets a suit can shoot at in the turn. Do they? Als:

- Must the unit be one fired at by the TacArms or can they target something else?

- Can the data be used by more than one UNA unit or must you expend markers as you use them?

- When do the tokens expire, do they continue the target unit next activates, end of turn or whatever?

Orlanth wrote:So you have painting lasers that always hit, have unlimited range, target one whole unit per fighter and you can use it to lock on your missiles. They should at least be considered one of the two targets a suit can shoot at in the turn. Do they? Als:

- Must the unit be one fired at by the TacArms or can they target something else?

- Can the data be used by more than one UNA unit or must you expend markers as you use them?

- When do the tokens expire, do they continue the target unit next activates, end of turn or whatever?

They can target ANY Unit that they have LOS of at least 1 fighter, they can shoot to the same unit, but thats up to you
No markers... any unit can lock the ML at the same designated unit

I do not remember exactly if it expires after the END of the turn or the next activation of the Tac Arms that designated

Wolfen wrote:

I do not remember exactly if it expires after the END of the turn or the next activation of the Tac Arms that designated

Having a markert expire when the Tasc Arm nexct activastes makes some sense but then you will need to mark the markers soyou know which expires and when.

Having a marker expire when the target also makes sense as if the target moves to break LOS it should automatically expire. Except now you dont need to mark which marker was fired by which Tac Arm unit. This is the most tqactical option as turn order makes its impact and something can be done about markers tactically.

If markers expire at end of turn you get a simple solution, however it does mean Tac Arms have to activate before missile packing infantry and Defender striders. This should be 'interesting' on the battlefield, but as you practically only need one Tac Arm unit, two to cover different terrain approaches, for most/all your missile shooting it is no handicap.

It's until the end of the round.

So to get the benefit activate TacArms first, then rocket infantry afterwards.

Well at least that fixes a previously random order and makes a UNA army easier to exploit. A fair balance I suppose.

My UNA and Therian armies arrived today, | will be opening up a new thread on them for general hints and what nots.

Orlanth wrote:My UNA and Therian armies arrived today, | will be opening up a new thread on them for general hints and what nots.

would you guys help update the AT-43 Wiki? http://www.at-43wiki.org/index.php?title=Main_Page

*additional question ( i re read the 5 pages , forgive me if i missed something already answered )

1) When Omega Tiamat is destroyed , she can body hack the closest unit with an over seer. Does the whole unit count as being destroyed ? or just the over seer it self?

2) In the army book i see a Hetman with 2 AT guns , is that a conversion or is there actually a model that replaces the rockets?

3) Since Red Blok moves slow , can the massed infantry (say 3 groups ) hide behind the Dotch Yaga and repair with their mechanics? or even have Manon and Odin baby sit the group as well.

LunaHound wrote:
*additional question ( i re read the 5 pages , forgive me if i missed something already answered )

1) When Omega Tiamat is destroyed , she can body hack the closest unit with an over seer. Does the whole unit count as being destroyed ? or just the over seer it self?

The rules say replaces the overseer, some persons have said this has been FAQ'ed to mean thne whole unit, but I have not seen this.

LunaHound wrote:
2) In the army book i see a Hetman with 2 AT guns , is that a conversion or is there actually a model that replaces the rockets?

When I asked this the reply didnt read the question, Duncan bless him has a habit of answering a different question to that posed. Yes the Red Blok army box contains a Hetman not a 2x AT gun strider, however the 2x AT gun is very likely an upcoming release. Rackham can take advantage of redundancy of components by replacing the medium rockets on a Hetman with another AT gun and printing a couple of cards to go with it, they have done this often enough with other striders.
You need not wait for the rules though, just swap over the weapons on two Hetmen (making a Kossak with a larger canopy in the process).

LunaHound wrote:
3) Since Red Blok moves slow , can the massed infantry (say 3 groups ) hide behind the Dotch Yaga and repair with their mechanics? or even have Manon and Odin baby sit the group as well.

Definately, I think this is the idea and why you have the two mechanic squad in the Army box. The tactic looks to be valid and fair, and not without a counter, artillery might not do much to Red Blok striders, but it will be very effective agaisnt following infantry. I suppose you can direct fire your artillery at the Krasny by direct firing on the Dotch Yaga itself and placing the template over the rear of its base. That ought to catch a few commies.

AHHHH i didnt realize the AT gun can be converted this easily ( just switch the tab to the other side rofl ) If i knew this could be done , i wouldnt have ordered Kossak ( i hate how they look ) But love Hetman model

LunaHound wrote:
AHHHH i didnt realize the AT gun can be converted this easily ( just switch the tab to the other side rofl ) If i knew this could be done , i wouldnt have ordered Kossak ( i hate how they look ) But love Hetman model

You havent done badly with a Kossak. Vrachov can ride a Kossak and he has a free ranging medic ability. As far as I know he can heal Kolossi. So if you follow of Kolossus unit it will be very hard to kill. This could be especially nasty with Dragomirov with the hero attachment.

I like the looks of the Kossak anyway, its the right type of ugly. I dont like the Hussar though.

LunaHound wrote:
*additional question ( i re read the 5 pages , forgive me if i missed something already answered )

1) When Omega Tiamat is destroyed , she can body hack the closest unit with an over seer. Does the whole unit count as being destroyed ? or just the over seer it self?

2) In the army book i see a Hetman with 2 AT guns , is that a conversion or is there actually a model that replaces the rockets?

3) Since Red Blok moves slow , can the massed infantry (say 3 groups ) hide behind the Dotch Yaga and repair with their mechanics? or even have Manon and Odin baby sit the group as well.

Orlath answer you before but I will clarify more.

1) In the English Therian Army Book says that Tiamat takes over the body of the Closest overseer (if she wants and paying the LP) so that means it could be Urash or Nina, or even Babylon 0 AND also says that the unit of the overseer is dead/eliminated or whatever you want to call it i.e. they are removed from game.

2) The 2 AT gun strider is not released, but as a Red Blok Player I look forward to it... or 1 AT cannon AN hussar Missile launcher

3) Yes a very wicked and, in my experience, very succesful tactic that will win games not friends. You can have the DY with minimum size KRasny soldat only for mechanics behind him or run a GenCOl army with 2 Urods supporting him and some extra Krasny units....
**mean mean girl**

Wolfen wrote:
3) Yes a very wicked and, in my experience, very succesful tactic that will win games not friends. You can have the DY with minimum size KRasny soldat only for mechanics behind him or run a GenCOl army with 2 Urods supporting him and some extra Krasny units....
**mean mean girl**

Wait wait , but that mean 's the enemie's mortars will hit the ones hiding behind DY extra hard as well since they are cramped ?

LunaHound wrote:

Wolfen wrote:
3) Yes a very wicked and, in my experience, very succesful tactic that will win games not friends. You can have the DY with minimum size KRasny soldat only for mechanics behind him or run a GenCOl army with 2 Urods supporting him and some extra Krasny units....
**mean mean girl**

Wait wait , but that mean 's the enemie's mortars will hit the ones hiding behind DY extra hard as well since they are cramped ?

Yes they will, see my above post. This is why this tactic is a trade off not a cheesy trick. Krasny mechanics are horribly vulnerable. Armour 3 means they will take a lot of casualties even to weak blast weapons of S4 or S5. Then what lives is likely knocked down and the Dotch Yaga will have to choose between advancing of waiting for its infantry support to get back up again.

Urods as support is far nastier, but you are getting what you pay for. A Dotch Yaga and two Urods in a GenCol list comes to a minimum of 1910pts for the three units and you need to buy a minimum of three infantry units to back them up to keep the list legal. At 2500pts this barely doable and only if you make all four units either minimum size Krasny and Dragonov support teams.
The words Eggs, All and Basket come to mind here.

Now if instead you took two Dotch Yaga, make one your army leader your army will have a core cost of 1595pts plus support. give your opponent too much socialist steel to deal with, evwen if mechanic support is less as a consequence.
How about you make this Frontline army for 2500pts:

A Platoon
Dotch Yaga Lt
Sierp
6 Dragonov, sergeant, medic, Ew specialist and sniper gun
3 Dragonov Snipers
8 Krasny with 2 mechanics and a grenade launcher

B Platoon
Dotch Yaga
Molot

2495pts. Sierp hides. Dragonov and Molot harass, Krasny follow as best they can.

Or.

A Platoon
Dotch Yaga
Urod
3 Dragonov Snipers
3 Med Tech team
9 Krasny Soldaty with sgt, 2 mechanics and grenade launcher

B Platoon
Dotch Yaga

2485pts. Three striders close up and punch through, Krasny and medics follow, snipers lurk and harass.