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1) When Omega Tiamat is destroyed , she can body hack the closest unit with an over seer. Does the whole unit count as being destroyed ? or just the over seer it self?

Yes, the whole unit is destroyed. There was a misprint in the German AB, but it has been corrected.

2) In the army book i see a Hetman with 2 AT guns , is that a conversion or is there actually a model that replaces the rockets?

It was just a display model, but maybe sometime in the future there will be one.

3) Since Red Blok moves slow , can the massed infantry (say 3 groups ) hide behind the Dotch Yaga and repair with their mechanics? or even have Manon and Odin baby sit the group as well.

Infantry advancing behind AFV is a standard tactic for RB and should be practiced whenerver possible.

Orlanth wrote:
A Platoon
Dotch Yaga Lt
Sierp
6 Dragonov, sergeant, medic, Ew specialist and sniper gun
3 Dragonov Snipers
8 Krasny with 2 mechanics and a grenade launcher

B Platoon
Dotch Yaga
Molot

2495pts. Sierp hides. Dragonov and Molot harass, Krasny follow as best they can.

Or.

A Platoon
Dotch Yaga
Urod
3 Dragonov Snipers
3 Med Tech team
9 Krasny Soldaty with sgt, 2 mechanics and grenade launcher

B Platoon
Dotch Yaga

2485pts. Three striders close up and punch through, Krasny and medics follow, snipers lurk and harass.

Just for the fun all at 2500

Genecol
Platoon 1
- 9 Dragonov Kommandos (Sergeant, 3 AT Gauss Gun)
- Dotch Yaga
- Urod (+ Colonels Odin & Manon)
- 8 Krasnye Soldaty (Sergeant, 1 Grenade Launcher) + mechs
- 8 Krasnye Soldaty (Sergeant, 1 Grenade Launcher) + mechs
Platoon 2
- 3 MedTech
- Hussar (Sergeant)


OR
Genecol
Platoon 1
- 3 Dragonov Groupa A
- Dotch Yaga
- Urod (+ Colonels Odin & Manon)
- 8 Krasnye Soldaty (Sergeant, 1 Grenade Launcher) + mechs
- 8 Krasnye Soldaty (Sergeant, 1 Grenade Launcher) + mechs
Platoon 2
- 3 Dragonov Groupa A
- Urod (+ Colonels Odin & Manon)

OR
Frontline
Platoon 1
- Dotch Yaga
- Urod (+ Colonels Odin & Manon)
- 9 Dragonov Kommandos (Sergeant, 3 Sniper Gun)
- 9 Dragonov Kommandos (Sergeant, 3 AT Gauss Gun)
- 12 Krasnye Soldaty (+ Captain P. Vrachov, 3 Grenade Launcher)
Platoon 2
- 1 Sierp (Sergeant)

OR
ARC
Platoon 1
- 12 Krasnye Soldaty (+ Captain P. Vrachov, 3 Grenade Launcher)
- Dotch Yaga
- Urod (+ Colonels Odin & Manon)
- 12 Krasnye Soldaty (Sergeant, 3 Grenade Launcher)
- 9 Dragonov Kommandos (3 AT Gauss Gun)
Platoon 2
- 12 Krasnye Soldaty (3 Grenade Launcher)

Is the rules for Nina and Babylon 0 in frost bite book?
( i dont see it in Therian army book grr :< )

If yes, what other things am i missing out because i dont have frost bite book!

LunaHound wrote:Is the rules for Nina and Babylon 0 in frost bite book?
( i dont see it in Therian army book grr :< )

If yes, what other things am i missing out because i dont have frost bite book!

Ok, In the Frostbite books the are Rules for units:

UNA:
Lt Epstone (A Death dealer tac Arms Hero)
DEath Delaers tac arms rules
support units a 2-man special weapon team (volcano mg, laser gun, sniper gun etc)
Camel transport

Red Blok:
Lt Dragomira
Dragomirov Kolossus
support units 3 man special weapon team
Soundouk transport

Therians
Nina/Babylon 0
The storm arachns
support units
Kraken transport

Karmans
Karman hero (dont rememeber the name
K burners
Support units
Kangaroo transport

Others:
Rules for ice terrain
Afew extra kits like more drills or extra granades or rules for Karman cristals
the campaign
Medtech
Weather conditions...

Thinkthats all

Luna you only need Frostbite book really. You do not need Frostbite boxset.

You can even play the campaign with just the book, just use your own terrain.


http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/424239

This iorder for just the book includes the playing cards and the scenario leaflet showing how the map tiles are organised. But not the civilians, crystals and tiles.

Crystals are easy to come by, any new age and some arts shops will sell you real crystals, and for less. Besides you wont want crystals unless you collect Karmans, for everyone else its just random terrain. I dont know about you, but if I collect Karmans I will buy some real crystals and base them up, it ought to look better anyway.

Wolfen wrote:
Camel transport
Karmans
Kangaroo transport

Thank you so much again wolfen!
And im trying to picture a kangaroo transport in my head

@Orlanth ah i see , though engineers and crystals are nice to have for $14 more

side question again ^^; say Red Bloks have Accuracy of 1 , whats the max distance they can shoot at on 6's?

accuracy +5 x 10cm

So for accuracy 1 you hit

on a 4+ from 0-30cm
on a 5+ from 30-50cm
on a 6+ from 50-70cm

Ranges in AT43 are reasonably long

Accuracy 1 can hit as far as a 36" range at BS1
20" with orky shooting and 12" as guard. When moving your RPG armed soldats think of them as trying to get in meltagun range, with an offchance of hitting far further away.

Accuracy 4, which is average for most soldiers shoot as well as orks to 36", guard to 24" and as marines at 12".

Orlanth wrote:accuracy +5 x 10cm

So for accuracy 1 you hit

on a 4+ from 0-30cm
on a 5+ from 30-50cm
on a 6+ from 50-70cm

Ranges in AT43 are reasonably long

Accuracy 1 can hit as far as a 36" range at BS1
20" with orky shooting and 12" as guard. When moving your RPG armed soldats think of them as trying to get in meltagun range, with an offchance of hitting far further away.

Accuracy 4, which is average for most soldiers shoot as well as orks to 36", guard to 24" and as marines at 12".

Which page is that on ><?

ohhh im so confused -_- maybe im just stupid

LunaHound wrote:

Wolfen wrote:
Camel transport
Karmans
Kangaroo transport

Thank you so much again wolfen!
And im trying to picture a kangaroo transport in my head

@Orlanth ah i see , though engineers and crystals are nice to have for $14 more

side question again ^^; say Red Bloks have Accuracy of 1 , whats the max distance they can shoot at on 6's?

There is a "picture" sort of of the Kangaro in the OP frostbite book... The cristals ALSO provide cover to others not only Karmans and height is infinite...so even type ** or *** could get good cover. Karmans of course have some more benefits


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:

Orlanth wrote:accuracy +5 x 10cm

So for accuracy 1 you hit

on a 4+ from 0-30cm
on a 5+ from 30-50cm
on a 6+ from 50-70cm

Ranges in AT43 are reasonably long

Accuracy 1 can hit as far as a 36" range at BS1
20" with orky shooting and 12" as guard. When moving your RPG armed soldats think of them as trying to get in meltagun range, with an offchance of hitting far further away.

Accuracy 4, which is average for most soldiers shoot as well as orks to 36", guard to 24" and as marines at 12".

Which page is that on ><?

ohhh im so confused -_- maybe im just stupid

As in UniversalTable of REsolution UTR, Accuracy 1 means that the maximum range is 70cm.... 70 cm is range 6....

Action Value =1
Difficulty = 6

Action Value - difficulty = 1-6= -5

In the UTR a value of -5 need a roll of 6 in a d6.... rockets can potentially hit upto 70 cm

Does that mean all the Accuracy 1 troops might as well as spray and pray to fire at anything within 70 cm?

Or is there some tactical reason not to?

LunaHound wrote:
Does that mean all the Accuracy 1 troops might as well as spray and pray to fire at anything within 70 cm?

Or is there some tactical reason not to?

Sorry i did not really get the question....

60-79 cm is the maximum need a 6 on a d6 to hit
40-59 5+ on a d6
20-39 4+ on a d6
0-19 3+ on a d6

Wolfen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
Does that mean all the Accuracy 1 troops might as well as spray and pray to fire at anything within 70 cm?

Or is there some tactical reason not to?

Sorry i did not really get the question....

60-79 cm is the maximum need a 6 on a d6 to hit
40-59 5+ on a d6
20-39 4+ on a d6
0-19 3+ on a d6

Accuracy 1 never gets a 3+ to hit.
This is correct:

So for accuracy 1 you hit

on a 4+ from 0-30cm
on a 5+ from 30-50cm
on a 6+ from 50-70cm


Automatically Appended Next Post:

LunaHound wrote:
Does that mean all the Accuracy 1 troops might as well as spray and pray to fire at anything within 70 cm?

Or is there some tactical reason not to?

What we are saying is that there is no flat rate of to hit rolls like in 40K.

Orks spray and pray, or more like spray and yell.

In At-43 you close range to your target if you need to and then shoot the closest viable target if you are Red Blok, with other more accurate troops you get some leeway amnd eventually get in ranges where you autohit.
However soldiers can shoot at long range and try for 6's, whatever long range to them is.

Is ther a reason not to? Yes, and no.

If you cannot do anything else with the unit fire away, you might get sixes. Otherwise spend an LP and put the unit on overwatch, the enemy might themselves need to get closer, or move out of cover. If you are lucky they might manoeuver so you get your shots in at 5+ rather than 6. With Red Blok LP having more LP than most you might be able to afford it. Dont go mad with it though, cover is more important and even Red Blok cant afford to give cover and overwatch to everyone, so your long range 'maybe-maybe' shots are likely better off being used on the go unle4ss you end up with LP to burn towards the end of the turn.

Orlanth wrote:

Accuracy 1 never gets a 3+ to hit.
This is correct:

So for accuracy 1 you hit

on a 4+ from 0-30cm
on a 5+ from 30-50cm
on a 6+ from 50-70cm

Yes my mistake.... the mathematics failed me big time

Alot of 40k stuff is being used for transports
A fav among Karman players is the Tau Devilfish.
UNA and Red Bloc like the Valkerie....Some nicly converted & painted GW stuff over at the rackham painting & modeling section (workshop)
http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=6495

I think you are answering the wrong thread, we are discussing At-43 tranports here: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/30/242669.page

I will be sticking with the Corvus, and maybe will continue to do so after the Camel is released. It is cheap and it is small, the cargo bay is big enough to give it a chance to take a small squad and it is nicely shaped so it gets away with its very small profile. This model will be convenient for play, far more than the Valkyrie is.

I have noted that most artowrk is for wingless variable thrust pod dropships. Raxckham also wants its vehicles to be conventiently sized. The Valkyrie looks cool but its size causes rules problems, the Corvus is far smaller and thus can not only fit in a terrain heavy game, but also doesnt cause a lot of LOS and ranging problems.

Have you used any snipers yet, Orlanth?

Not personally, I dont have any, but my opponent using my Therian army is beginning to see what they can do.

Frankly I find the sniper rules fair, Zero Fire excepted. But I will not tolerate spamming max snipers for balance sake. You have to set up a shot and must have direct LOS to target, to me this means head and chest, not part of the base.

The problem we are haing with is indirect fire rules, which are pretty poor even with 10cm scatter on every miss rewrite. In fact one of the players introduced has already lost interest in the system on account for what a Defender Cobra can do and how little can be done about it.

I had already fixed some rules, by necessity. Some of my players were at give up point without changes, we tried an unmodified game yesterday at 2.5k points. it was suggested we got some orginal rules and points sizes games in as suggested before I house rule everything, it reiterated what we already knew. While the core rules are good, many of the rules need a complete rewrite before the game stops sucking.
we didnt play strict Rackham rules past the first turn.

So blast does not ignore cover, if you have take cover orders you get a 5+ because you 'hit the deck' or equivalent, always, if you have cover between you and the blast epicentre you get your 5+/3+.
Flamers are not indirect fire, but do ignore all cover.
Grenades are limited to 10cm range and dont scatter, you get 1cm blast per two models firing and always get cover because there is no one blast epicentre. You need to lead with your sergeant to use grenades.

Fior multiple blast you only count hits, misses are discounted entirely unless they all miss when you get one scatter of one blast of 10cm direction, with a radius of +1cm per additional shot.
Hits also only give +1cm per additional shot, not double.
two 3cm blasts is not equal in area to a 6cm blast, dont they teach geometry in France? In fact 4cm is about right. If the blast is over 5cm to begin with it adds +2cm per extra hit.
The rules for exheeding 10cm dont change, but are harder to reach with the changes, K-Warriors might now be a little weak for the points, but we dont have any so we will fix that when it becomes a problem.

One of the friends I started playing AT-43 with pretty much wanted to walk away from the table when he saw the indirect fire and sniper rules in action.

Personally, indirect fire rules are the only ones I really have any problem with in concept. It's too easy to knock down enemy squads...and I am giving up Red Blok in favor of U.N.A. in large part due to TacArms units being immune from Knockdowns and Kolossus units not getting that ability. For infantry squads with indirect fire weapons it takes them some time to get into effective range with Flamers or Grenade Launchers, but on vehicles Indirect Fire weapons can be just disgusting.

The only time I've had a problem with the Sniper rules was in the Extraction mission in the main rulebook. My opponent was the player trying to extract the pilot, and I was trying to kill the pilot. He picks up the pilot, following activation I snipe the pilot and there was nothing he could do about. I played the mission properly, but it felt like a cheap win to both of us.

I can see how the sniper rules can easily be abused. There's a reason why, in 40K, there are very, very few units who can snipe. In FoW, there are a lot of restrictions for snipers. Once you start giving snipers infinite ranges, it's really easy to unbalance them.

The "ignoring cover" rule really ought to be limited to flamers or any other weapon with a very short range; and if you still got a 5+ cover save against snipers, but could never take a 3+ "Take Cover" save, they might be more balanced as well.

I have been reading the main AT-43 forum , which one are you on it Cairnius?

LunaHound wrote:
I have been reading the main AT-43 forum , which one are you on it Cairnius?

Well there is someone there called Cairnius, might be a good start.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Cairnius wrote:One of the friends I started playing AT-43 with pretty much wanted to walk away from the table when he saw the indirect fire and sniper rules in action.

This is where my friend got to after we replayed turn one three times. The first two games he set up tyerrain and 'senario' and I sucked it up. But most players like to win, I dont want to sound unfair on the guy as he had a point, he is not the asort to tantrum if he doesnt win, but hew will complain if the rules offer him very little chance of doing so.

Cairnius wrote:
Personally, indirect fire rules are the only ones I really have any problem with in concept. It's too easy to knock down enemy squads...and I am giving up Red Blok in favor of U.N.A. in large part due to TacArms units being immune from Knockdowns and Kolossus units not getting that ability. For infantry squads with indirect fire weapons it takes them some time to get into effective range with Flamers or Grenade Launchers, but on vehicles Indirect Fire weapons can be just disgusting.

Now admittedly I forgeot to apply knockdown in the first two games, and decided not to even try and implement it during the third abortive game.

However with some modificartion it can be ok. I suggest you play to a rule by which a weapon that cannot hurt the target cannot knock it down. as Kolossi are the biggest vixctims of knockdown, big bases small units the answer presents itself with armour 12. This requires a blast with a S7 or more.

This rules out all blast weapons except flamers and K-warriors. Goliaths become immune to knockdown from human grenades, but Goliaths are not short of advantages and are criminally underpointed compared to Kolossi.
On the matter of flamers as we dont consider them blast weapons we ignore knockdown for them too. yes soldiers do go rolling on the ground to put out flames, but that would include TacArms. Blast is less of an issue so if you escapre the cinferno you can be up and moving, amd most likely will be.

Cairnius wrote:
The only time I've had a problem with the Sniper rules was in the Extraction mission in the main rulebook. My opponent was the player trying to extract the pilot, and I was trying to kill the pilot. He picks up the pilot, following activation I snipe the pilot and there was nothing he could do about. I played the mission properly, but it felt like a cheap win to both of us.

They really should have banned snipers from that scenario, it is an easy thing to do.

Cairnius wrote:
I can see how the sniper rules can easily be abused. There's a reason why, in 40K, there are very, very few units who can snipe. In FoW, there are a lot of restrictions for snipers. Once you start giving snipers infinite ranges, it's really easy to unbalance them.

Well in 40K snipers are just another type of line gunner with a few extra rules. The only true snipers in the game are Vindicares and Farseers with mind war, thats not enough for an imbalance and they are suitably expensive.

Cairnius wrote:
The "ignoring cover" rule really ought to be limited to flamers or any other weapon with a very short range; and if you still got a 5+ cover save against snipers, but could never take a 3+ "Take Cover" save, they might be more balanced as well.

I would play strict TLOS for snipers, so officers can hide within their own unit. This is also accurate a bit like the politician and his bodyguards, staff officers dress down and hide in the men. I would go further than TLOS also and allow bases from the same unit to also get in the way, so if you put a hero on a sculpted base you are not penalised for the cool model. This sohuld not aplply tom meics who have to rush about helping thwe wounded.

While on the subject of medics we decided from day one that if you get an auto kill on the penetration roll you cannot save the model with a medic, heroes not excepted. You cannot bandage up a messy corpse, not without a necromancer.

You had problems with mission extraction and snipers? You know that snipers only can shoot after the unit in question has moved and is within sight and that you can`t use it during overwatch?

Moving in and screening the wreck and then letting the pilot run most of the times does the job (double activation and postponing activation are quite helpful.) Extracting him brings you 5 VP and getting him the short distance to your own zone is not that difficult if you take care of the dangerous units, e.g. getting in CC with them.

You don´t need to wipe out the enemy, you just need to extract the pilot. Quite some beginners are so fixed an the standard 40K objective that the forget mission objectives.

Concentrating on the target won me my very first FoW game . And my enemy had 1200 AP while I just had measly 600 (well there was another player with 600 AP who was supposed to fight on my side, but he just tried to kill dug in soldiers by which in the end he accomplished nothing)

Well, *I* didn't have problems with the Extraction mission and snipers. My opponent did. I won, remember?

He was not focused on wiping me out at all - he played strictly to the objective. He's a TTW veteran, not a noob, and he's also a game designer so he adapts from game to game extremely well. If someone can pay too many games, it's him.

The sniping unit was a Wraith Golgoth, so my opponent couldn't screen with infantry, and I took his vehicles out quick-like first thing and it was a 2000 AP game per the rulebook so he didn't have many units to start with, being a Karman player. We knew that was part of the problem, of course, as Karmans are oft-described as really coming into their own only at 3000 AP which does seem to be the new "standard" for AT-43 a la 1,500 points for 40K.

I also had Atis and some Grims in the game so the unit that picked up the pilot was doomed. I teleported into the unit before the sniper killed the pilot. He never had a chance.

I think the Extraction mission would be much-improved if you were not allowed to snipe the pilot, and had to wipe out the escorting unit to a man before killing the pilot.

He was not focused on wiping me out at all - he played strictly to the objective. He's a TTW veteran, not a noob, and he's also a game designer so he adapts from game to game extremely well. If someone can pay too many games, it's him.

Then he still has some homework to do.

The sniping unit was a Wraith Golgoth, so my opponent couldn't screen with infantry, and I took his vehicles out quick-like first thing and it was a 2000 AP game per the rulebook so he didn't have many units to start with, being a Karman player. We knew that was part of the problem, of course, as Karmans are oft-described as really coming into their own only at 3000 AP which does seem to be the new "standard" for AT-43 a la 1,500 points for 40K. I also had Atis and some Grims in the game so the unit that picked up the pilot was doomed. I teleported into the unit before the sniper killed the pilot. He never had a chance.

Half of the units you only get as reserve and your opponent only 750. RP-sources are distributed in a way that the defender reaches them more easily or even has one already in his zone. It is not that difficult for him to get 200-250 RP on the first turn while you will only get 100-150 at best. This should take care of some of the problems. And he could have avoided Atis attacking this unit by moving it last and activating it first on the next round. With Karman and Therian chances for him at winning initiative should be somewhere around 50:50. Karman have slightly fewer units, but Therian are not that cheaper. I f you were able to take out all his vehicles he must have used them in a bad way. At least with our lists we never lost all of them. Also, since you were already using Frostbite rules he could have made use of them too, e.g. wall of steel.

Duncan, it's problematic when you make comments like "He still has some homework to do" as the internet has no tone. It sounds like a very superior, arrogant comment when you don't know the person I'm speaking of from Adam and when I've told you already that he's a TTW vet.

AT-43 rules are incredibly simplistic. If you can master 40K or FoW or Necromunda then AT-43 is child's play, and almost a boardgame by comparison. It's not very challenging to learn, which is part of what it wants to be by design, right?

No offense, but you didn't just say anything that would have helped my friend out. It didn't matter how many RP he had compared to mine, I started off with Atis and the Grims in my Assault forces, all the way across the board such that he was not allowed to shoot at them. I put her in a position in which she had a clear LOS of the whole area in front of the vehicle wreck. Moving the escorting unit last would not have helped him - he could not have gotten out of her LOS the round after he made the pilot pickup as there was no way he could have entirely-obscured her view of any part of the escorting unit, not after I had two rounds of whittling down his forces prior to his making the pickup.