Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I want to do this now, while there is still a window of opportunity. I have saved up now it is time to unleash my funds and get a crap ton of AT-43. But before I do it is time to recon. rackham is very poor at updating its website and giving relevant information.

So:

The Books.

QUESTION 1.
Which books do I need as core products?
If I get the Initiation boxset does this cover all the rules for the AT-43 Rulebook and the Operation Damocles Campaign Book. Which book is in the boxset and are the two books multiply redundant with the boxset?

QUESTION 2.
Also are the rules in frostbite covered elsewhere, in particular the Army books. I am not interested in buying the snow camo minitures but want to buy the basic camo/ Damocles camapign only. But are the special rules pertaining to the new heroes and units covered in frostbite unique to the book.

QUESTION 3.
What is the AT-43 Tactics book? Does it cover material that is unique to itself?



The Boxsets.

INITIATION BOXSET: OPERATION DAMOCLES
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=127&Itemid=242

QUESTION 4.
Does the Fire Toad (and/or Wraith Golgoth) in the boxset include the alternative weapons for other combat strider variants of the same chassis?

QUESTION 5.
Does the boxset include templates?



UROD/ Onin and Manon
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=165&Itemid=239

QUESTION 6.
Does this include stats to use the Urod as a standard Hetman? Otherwise how does one buy a Hetman and are there any differences.



Accessory Marker Expansion Set AT-43
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=113&Itemid=242

QUESTION 7.
How 'far' does one set of counters go? How many sets do I need per side in a 2k-3k points game.



Accessory Expansion Set 1 Templates
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=110&Itemid=242
http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=127&Itemid=242

QUESTION 8.
Are any templates also included in the initiation Boxset?



Follow up questions will be asked later about the armies I plan to buy. At the moment I am buying semi blind, though I have looked on AT-43 forums to learn a bit about the various units.

For now what it looks like I want will be, remember these are collections not field forces. Though I am interested in where these forces are balanced if at all, as a whole. items marked with ?? and italicised are items I am not sure about.

U.N.A.

1x U.N.A. Army Book
2x Initiation Set Operation Damocles contents (2x Fire Toad 18x Steel trooper)
1x Steel Trooper Attachment (6 special Steels Troopers)
1x Wing Trooper unit (6 Wing troopers)
?? 1x Wing Trooper attachment (?? 6 special wing troopers)??

?? 1x Fire Toad (with extra weapons variants in a crate)??
1x Defender Snake
1x Copperhead and Col G Stark
?? 1x Defender Cobra M8 ??
1x Fire Crawler

1x 3 Jam TAC-ARMS
1x 3 Deathdealer TAC-ARMS
1x 3 Steel TAC-ARMS

?? Sgt Bors ??
?? Cpt Newton ??


Therians

1x Therian army Book
2x Initiation Set Operation Damocles contents (2x Wraith Golgoth 16x Storm Golem)
1x Storm golem attachment (6 special Storm Golems)
2x Assaut Golems (12 assault golems)
1x Assault Golem attachment (6 assault Golems)

1x 3 Bane Goliaths
1x 3 Assault Goliaths
1x 4 Assault medusae

1x Baal Golgoth*

?? Tiamat??
?? Urash ??

*I might buy another Ball Golgoth (or two!) to cut up into two scratchbuilt Hekat Golgoths each, this fits the background, saves money and may be needed due to the ability to summon hektas out of in game command points. I also hate the Hekat model.


Red Blok

1x Red Blok book
1x Red Army box (Dotch Yaga, Urod, 20 krasny Soldaty, 6 Dragonov Kommandoes)
1x Krasny Soldaty attachment (6 special Krasny)
?? 1x RPG Soldat Unit (8 RPG)??
?? 1x RPG Soldat attachment (6 special RPG)??

1x 3 stielitz Kolossus
1x 3 Dragomirov Kolossus
1x 3 RPG Kolossus

1x Sierp
1x Molot
??1x Nokovalny??

1x Kossak
??1x Urod (as Hetman)??

??Sgt Tymofiyeva
Cpt Vrachov??


No monkeys as yet. Tempted but....

QUESTION 9.
Anything glaringly wrong with the above, or missing, excepting the dirty apes.


Thasnkyou for your help, I wanbt to get this right and know the opportunity is now or never, or at least soon or never. The rules seem tight I love (most of) the miniatures and with prepaint I can splash out without adding to my backlog.

Come on Dakka, it took a lot of effort to get all this together, will noone bother to answer?

QUESTION 1.
Which books do I need as core products?
If I get the Initiation boxset does this cover all the rules for the AT-43 Rulebook and the Operation Damocles Campaign Book. Which book is in the boxset and are the two books multiply redundant with the boxset?

Damocles and the starter boxes do only have short introductory booklets. You will need the rulebook and the army book of the army you want to play. An excerpt of the rulebook you can get here: http://www.at-43.com/pdf_EN/AT43/AT-43_rules.pdf It is only missing the fluff, missions and unit building rules.

QUESTION 2.
Also are the rules in frostbite covered elsewhere, in particular the Army books. I am not interested in buying the snow camo minitures but want to buy the basic camo/ Damocles camapign only. But are the special rules pertaining to the new heroes and units covered in frostbite unique to the book.

Frostbite does have some additional core rules, so the box shoudl be bought. You will get the newer miniatures only in frostbite camo, but it is quite easy to repaint them since their paint job works like a base coat. Transports, new heroes and units are only available via the Frostbite box.

QUESTION 3.
What is the AT-43 Tactics book? Does it cover material that is unique to itself?

Tactics is a rules-set for commando-like operations and not needed to play AT. It adds some spice (adds some rpg-elements) but you can live without it.

QUESTION 4.
Does the Fire Toad (and/or Wraith Golgoth) in the boxset include the alternative weapons for other combat strider variants of the same chassis?

No, FT 2 and 3 which are sold separately do have one random weapon set and 4 (Frostbite camo, sold seperately ) does have all options included (2 and 3 will be phased out).

QUESTION 5.
Does the boxset include templates?

No, but there´s a set which includes dice, template and meter that does cost below 10$. Only one template is needed for the game.

QUESTION 6.
Does this include stats to use the Urod as a standard Hetman? Otherwise how does one buy a Hetman and are there any differences.

Urod is a Hetman, but sometime in the future a seperate Hetman is going to be released, until then just use Urod with the stats found in the army book.

QUESTION 7.
How 'far' does one set of counters go? How many sets do I need per side in a 2k-3k points game.

Markers can be downloaded from their website for DiY, but you can also buy packs from GF9, one pack is enough for 1000 AP. Since standard play is around 2500 AP 2-3 packs should suffice.

QUESTION 8.
Are any templates also included in the initiation Boxset?

As far as I know: Yes!

U.N.A.

1x U.N.A. Army Book
2x Initiation Set Operation Damocles contents (2x Fire Toad 18x Steel trooper)
1x Steel Trooper Attachment (6 special Steels Troopers)
1x Wing Trooper unit (6 Wing troopers)
?? 1x Wing Trooper attachment (?? 6 special wing troopers)??

?? 1x Fire Toad (with extra weapons variants in a crate)??
1x Defender Snake
1x Copperhead and Col G Stark
?? 1x Defender Cobra M8 ??
1x Fire Crawler

1x 3 Jam TAC-ARMS
1x 3 Deathdealer TAC-ARMS
1x 3 Steel TAC-ARMS

?? Sgt Bors ??
?? Cpt Newton ??

Quite some stuff to choose from. I would get another two FT and if you want all weapons options they should be even 3 from Frostbite
Also I would get another Steel TacArm Unit, you will need it. Get also another Steel Trooper Attachement. Wing Troopers are quite specialised, but their specalist guns are quite nice. Jam Tac Arms you can buy later, Get the hero for the Deathdealers, gives them quite some punch and another list that allows you to field DDs is included with Frostbite.

Therians

1x Therian army Book
2x Initiation Set Operation Damocles contents (2x Wraith Golgoth 16x Storm Golem)
1x Storm golem attachment (6 special Storm Golems)
2x Assaut Golems (12 assault golems)
1x Assault Golem attachment (6 assault Golems)

1x 3 Bane Goliaths
1x 3 Assault Goliaths
1x 4 Assault medusae

1x Baal Golgoth*

?? Tiamat??
?? Urash ??

*I might buy another Ball Golgoth (or two!) to cut up into two scratchbuilt Hekat Golgoths each, this fits the background, saves money and may be needed due to the ability to summon hektas out of in game command points. I also hate the Hekat model.

One Baal is enough for 3000 AP, Get another Bane Goliath unit. Atis Astarte and Grim Golems (Unit + Attach) are a must, also Nina/Babel Zero. Urash you can buy quite some time later, Tiamat is your choice. Therians can be run without heros, no problem there. Get another Assault Golem and Storm Golem Attachement. Only the two Wraiths that are available seperate do have the optional weapons (random up unitil now).

Red Blok

1x Red Blok book
1x Red Army box (Dotch Yaga, Urod, 20 krasny Soldaty, 6 Dragonov Kommandoes)
1x Krasny Soldaty attachment (6 special Krasny)
?? 1x RPG Soldat Unit (8 RPG)??
?? 1x RPG Soldat attachment (6 special RPG)??

1x 3 stielitz Kolossus
1x 3 Dragomirov Kolossus
1x 3 RPG Kolossus

1x Sierp
1x Molot
??1x Nokovalny??

1x Kossak
??1x Urod (as Hetman)??

??Sgt Tymofiyeva
Cpt Vrachov??

You definitely need dragonov and you need two full units if possible. Their snipers make your day. Type 1 AFV should be bought in units of three and if you want Tymo get a fourth Nakovalny. Vrachov is a good choice, but you need Dragomira to make really good use of the Dragomirov.

QUESTION 9.
Anything glaringly wrong with the above, or missing, excepting the dirty apes.

Nothing wrong, good questions.

Have fun playing AT.

You may want to wait a bit longer as well. There are some very nice army boxes coming out in the Summer for $70 that will include a full 2K pt army.

http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=258&Itemid=234

But they dont seem to be available in the UK...
mick

jwiv wrote:You may want to wait a bit longer as well. There are some very nice army boxes coming out in the Summer for $70 that will include a full 2K pt army.

http://www.rackham.fr/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=258&Itemid=234

Getting the Red Blok army box had been taken account of with the army lists above.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Damocles and the starter boxes do only have short introductory booklets. You will need the rulebook and the army book of the army you want to play. An excerpt of the rulebook you can get here: http://www.at-43.com/pdf_EN/AT43/AT-43_rules.pdf It is only missing the fluff, missions and unit building rules.

So let me get this straight. I need:

Army book - even if I get an initiation set or two (for the minatures).
Frostbite
Army books for each army collected.

I do not need At-43 tactics or the Damocles Campaign book.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Frostbite does have some additional core rules, so the box shoudl be bought. You will get the newer miniatures only in frostbite camo, but it is quite easy to repaint them since their paint job works like a base coat. Transports, new heroes and units are only available via the Frostbite box.

If Frostbite is a boxst what else does it include?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

QUESTION 5.
Does the boxset include templates?

No, but there´s a set which includes dice, template and meter that does cost below 10$. Only one template is needed for the game.

QUESTION 8.
Are any templates also included in the initiation Boxset?

As far as I know: Yes!

Ok, confused which way around you have this.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Markers can be downloaded from their website for DiY, but you can also buy packs from GF9, one pack is enough for 1000 AP. Since standard play is around 2500 AP 2-3 packs should suffice.

Is that 1000AP per side? I am looking to fully host these games with friends, so do I need 3 packs or even more

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Also I would get another Steel TacArm Unit, you will need it. Get also another Steel Trooper Attachement. Wing Troopers are quite specialised, but their specalist guns are quite nice. Jam Tac Arms you can buy later, Get the hero for the Deathdealers, gives them quite some punch and another list that allows you to field DDs is included with Frostbite.

Hmm I am thinking of getting three units of heavy *** infantry suits for each faction wuth no duplication except for possibly adding heroes or officers. I have heard many nice things about Steel Tac-Arms but I dont want my armies to have built in crutches with three units each army available, no more no less it will lead to tough choices as to what to include in a game.

What is your opinion on star Troopers?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
One Baal is enough for 3000 AP, Get another Bane Goliath unit. Atis Astarte and Grim Golems (Unit + Attach) are a must, also Nina/Babel Zero. Urash you can buy quite some time later, Tiamat is your choice. Therians can be run without heros, no problem there. Get another Assault Golem and Storm Golem Attachement. Only the two Wraiths that are available seperate do have the optional weapons (random up unitil now).

likewise I will be getting one heavy *** strider for each army. the second Baal is because Warstore is selling them at $22 while a hekat is $22.50. I also hate the Hekat model. one Baal will be cut up the six legs will form the propulsion for two smaller golgoths. also as there is a direct continuity it makes more sense when you think about the Therians strider combining powers.
I have not seen any grim golem attachments, are you sure they are out yet.

What is so special about nina Zero?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
You definitely need dragonov and you need two full units if possible. Their snipers make your day. Type 1 AFV should be bought in units of three and if you want Tymo get a fourth Nakovalny. Vrachov is a good choice, but you need Dragomira to make really good use of the Dragomirov.

I have been tempted to drop the RPG Kolossus in favour of two units of Dragomirov a breach of the above rules because you get rockets anyway so the flavour is there and dragomirovs allow the reds to spit further than thier own boots. Any reason to keep RPG Kolossus?

Also how important is it to run light * striders in groups of three, this will be expensive also will there be a lot of overkill especially with the Molot? I was looking at the lone Sierp as a harasser unit the points costs of a trio of light striders takes up a huge chunk of my points especially after i have bought a Dotch Yada, what else would be left for infantry and Kollossi?

So let me get this straight. I need:

Army book - even if I get an initiation set or two (for the minatures).
Frostbite
Army books for each army collected.

I do not need At-43 tactics or the Damocles Campaign book.

You got it right.

If Frostbite is a boxst what else does it include?

3 Civil engineers, 12 gaming tiles 30x30cm, two elysium crystals, 13 gaming cards and a 16 page mission booklet.

Ok, confused which way around you have this.

The boxed army sets do have dice, ruler, template. But there's also a seperate set which includes all three. Damocles does only have ruler and dice.

Is that 1000AP per side? I am looking to fully host these games with friends, so do I need 3 packs or even more

Yes, but printing them out and laminating them does the job too. The GF9 are just the luxury variant.

Hmm I am thinking of getting three units of heavy *** infantry suits for each faction wuth no duplication except for possibly adding heroes or officers. I have heard many nice things about Steel Tac-Arms but I dont want my armies to have built in crutches with three units each army available, no more no less it will lead to tough choices as to what to include in a game.

What is your opinion on star Troopers?

Two Steel Tac Arms are definitely a must, nearly all players I know field two of them. The others are seen by most as rother supportive units with special roles. Steels are the workhorse units.

One unit star troopers should suffice. They are not strong, but when it comes to holding objectives every man counts. With AT most of the times it is the combination of troops rather than using "the Uber-Unit" that wins you battles.

likewise I will be getting one heavy *** strider for each army. the second Baal is because Warstore is selling them at $22 while a hekat is $22.50. I also hate the Hekat model. one Baal will be cut up the six legs will form the propulsion for two smaller golgoths. also as there is a direct continuity it makes more sense when you think about the Therians strider combining powers.
I have not seen any grim golem attachments, are you sure they are out yet.

What is so special about nina Zero?

OK, but you don´t need more than two. I do have two and three is shere overkill. Grim Golems don´t have attachements up until now, but will get them with the new packaging.

Nina/Babel can lead a unit of Bane Goliaths (4 in a unit!) and also can have RB units in her army, also Zero Fire allows you to sniper while moving. If Babel is killed Nina ejects from it (Nina is a Bane Goliath) and can attach to a Bane Goliath unit if she wants to.

I have been tempted to drop the RPG Kolossus in favour of two units of Dragomirov a breach of the above rules because you get rockets anyway so the flavour is there and dragomirovs allow the reds to spit further than thier own boots. Any reason to keep RPG Kolossus?

Also how important is it to run light * striders in groups of three, this will be expensive also will there be a lot of overkill especially with the Molot? I was looking at the lone Sierp as a harasser unit the points costs of a trio of light striders takes up a huge chunk of my points especially after i have bought a Dotch Yada, what else would be left for infantry and Kollossi?

Hm, RPG colossus rockets reach further than normal rpgs and you get 4 instead of 3. So sometimes they are the better option. Proxy and try out what fits your style of play better. Also with the upcoming transports kolossus win quite some speed. Also Frostbite allows you to use units of up to 5 Kolossus (Standard 3 + Additional one thanks to new rules + hero).

Nakovalny 3 are a must. Sierp are fun when going against infantry-heavy enemies and three Sierp can steal 3 FP from every opposing enmy army every round. Molot are also fun against infantry-heavy enemies, but you don´t need the full three. Zviezda is a nice mixture and because of this 3 are good to make the best out of it. Units of three makes it easier to avoid moral checks. If you loose one * in a unit of two it hurts you more than in a unit of three, cause you have to check moral once your unit goes down to one *. You will face nearly always enemy units that field packs of three *. So its better for you to do it too. Dotch Yaga should bee seen as what it is: a support unit, not an assault unit, taht´s what ** are for and to some extent maxed out * units. Generally we include *** in our armies when playing with 2600+ AP and *** only really start to be fun with 3000 AP. Buying a *** at lower AP is suicide since it concentrates too much AP in one unit. Remember that in addition to the LP your commanding officer gives you every unit in your army gives you one additional AP. And you will need AP to run your show.

Orlanth , im also interested in at-43 , would it be ok if i ask in this thread too so its altogether in 1 spot?

Q1: Does the game have must take minimum requirements units? If yes, could you tell me them for the factions?

Q2: Is Omega Tiamat a heroe? only 1 allowed per army?

Q3: For the units with replacement heads (UNA i guess) does that mean you can rotate their head to different directions?
( i noticed many of them werent looking in the direction they are shooting at in the photos )



Thanks :")

Q1: Does the game have must take minimum requirements units? If yes, could you tell me them for the factions?

You have one mandatory unit type you must take (one out of five slots). Depending on which army or faction you play it can be an infantry unit or an AFV.

Q2: Is Omega Tiamat a heroe? only 1 allowed per army?

Except für GenCol lists, where clones are allowed, only one hero of its kind in your army. Tiamat is a hero.

Q3: For the units with replacement heads (UNA i guess) does that mean you can rotate their head to different directions?
( i noticed many of them werent looking in the direction they are shooting at in the photos )

Yes you can.

Ahh , regarding Q1 , are these the ok for mandatories?

Therian : storm golems ( bane goliath maybe? )
UNA: Tac arms
Red Blok : Collosus ( speznaz and rpg )
Karman: Wendigos

LunaHound wrote:Orlanth , im also interested in at-43 , would it be ok if i ask in this thread too so its altogether in 1 spot?

Join in, it would be a good idea to get a solid help set up for reference in this time, with AT-43 being temporarily cheap. Outside this window I wont be able to get much, but now its army time.

*Additional info for the firetoad question you asked.

The latest winter camo toad does not come with crate, but it does have all the weapon options isntead.

*Another question i have:

Does 1 attachment unit fit right into 1 normal unit by itself?

Ok, here is my first order.

Qty. Name Product ID Price Total
1 AT-43 Frostbite Bitz - Rulebooks (Campaign & Gaming Aid)
RKATX07-BK1 7.25 $ 7.25
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Goliaths Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATT16 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Medusa Unit Box
RKATT12 14.99 $ 14.99
1 AT-43 Therians Baal Golgoth (Clearance)
RKATT05 20.00 $ 20.00
2 AT-43 Therians Bane Goliaths Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATT15 10.00 $ 20.00
1 AT-43 Therians Storm Golem Attachment Box (Clearance)
RKATT11 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therians Tiamat Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATT07 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Golem Attachement Box (Clearance)
RKATT14 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Death Dealer TacArm Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU18 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Colonel G. Stark & Cobra (Clearance)
RKATU09 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Defender Snake Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU05 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Jam Tacarm (Clearance)
RKATU19 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Steel Tacarms Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU17 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 U.N.A Open Steel TacArm (Promo Fig)
ATRKX2 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Lieutenant G. Epstone (Clearance)
RKATU21 6.00 $ 6.00
1 AT-43 UNA Shock Tacarms Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU20 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Captain H. Newton Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATU08 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Sergeant A. Borz Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATU07 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 Accessory Medtec Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATX08 12.00 $ 12.00
3 AT-43 Initiation Set Operation Damocles (Clearance)
RKATX01 30.00 $ 90.00
1 AT-43 Rulebook (Clearance)
RKATX02 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therian Army Book (Clearance)
RKATT01 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Army Book (Clearance)
RKATU01 5.00 $ 5.00
Sub Total $ 325.24
Shipping/Handling $ 0.75
Sales Tax $ 0.00
Total $ 325.99

Take a look and tell me what is missing, but no cookie to the guy who say 'the Red Blok army'; that has to wait. So does the Frie Crawler.

Some points:

1. Yes I do mean three Initiation sets, that gives me the core of my infantry for both armies right there. Let alone three Fire Toads. I was going to get two Initiation sets but a full trio of Fire Toads sounded like it made sense, and for $8 more than one toad I might as well get a whole new boxset.

2. Assault Golem attachment but no Assault Golems. With three initiation boxsets I cannot see the reason to have any, Storm Golems do a similar job and Bane Goliaths and Assault Medusae yield the same firepower. I bought the boxset to have a different second Overseer for my Storm Golems and more importantly a full trio of flamers to add to another unit.

A question here: Why bother with Grim Golems either, except to take talon girl? From what I can see Storm Golems will cut anyone into little man chunks, ape chunks being marginally more difficult.

What I am thinking is that with Storm Golems and more Storm Golems as my root infantry I build up a faceless horde feel to the army, with the Goliaths providing the nearest thing to character. Firepower and asault value isnt bad either. So three maxed out Storm Golem units with two Overseers and enough flamers for one unit and sonic guns for all three, oh and one boxset of Assault Medusae for flavour. Good ** infantry horde Y/N?

3. I took the advice and got two boxes of Bane Goliaths rather than one, and a box of Assault Goliaths.

4. Three Wraith Golgoths, I suspect I only really need two. I made a 4k point list with the army builder and couldnt sqeeeze in a third anyway, not with the Baal and Tiamat, and not without taking a third platoon. This was with a Cypher list.

5. Atis-Astarte was on clearance price but Grim Golems were not, another reason not to get any. Can I add Atis to a Storm Golem unit? and would I get any benefit for doing so. I strongly throught about buying the mini and replacing one set of blades with a nanoblaster for a third Overseer. Still I like the mini enough I may be talked into a set of grim Golems on the next pass, especially as all I will need is the unit boxset as I have three flamers spare already to make up a full unit.

6. Right onto the U.N.A. Apart from the three Fire Toads I went for one of everything.

7. This does mean one Steel Tac Arm for now, though I did get the special edition miniture which if Duncan idaho is right will allow me to build a legal unit of 4.

8. It also means a Shock Tac Arm which I had not previously considered. I diont know what good a single token close combat units will have, though I have heard that Shock Tac Arms can do the job, Shock Troopers just die. The other reason I am not rushing to buy Shock Troopers is due to model cost, they are not discounted.

9. My Death Dealers get their hero, Epstone, this unit costs twice the others in $$$. I hope she is worth it.

10. No Shock Trooper attachment boxset. The box was too expensive and my three Shock Trooper units are all full and have two missile launchers each anyway. From what I am reading this is enough. Later I can bit order some mechanics or medics, from what i have heard though lock shot missile launchers are all I really want for the infantry special weapons regardless. How many mechanics should I buy?

11. No Wing troopers or Star Troopers as of yet. I didnt buy from warstore but from Miniature Market, and they did not do a discount. I wont want more than one unit of each anyway.

12. Two ** striders the Cobra and the Snake. The Fire Crawler is tempting but too expensive for now, some with the M8.
while on this what are your thoughts on ther M8, with three Fire Toads some Steel Troopers and lot of locked missile launchers I wonder if I really need the direct fire gun. I am considering not buying at all, though I must say I do like the mini.

13. Got the full rulebook and two army books, and bits ordered the Frostbite book (the reason I bought from Miniatures Market). This should ber everything until I buy the Red Blok book with the new army yes?

14. Open to any other comments....

LunaHound wrote:*Additional info for the firetoad question you asked.

The latest winter camo toad does not come with crate, but it does have all the weapon options isntead.

I think I would prefer the container. I really like the look of the chain guns but the more I look at the rules the more I am seeing it would be foolish to move away from default armament. It would be nice to have one armed with Iron Rain as a change, but from what I am reading this requires another slot and splits a unit into one and a pair.

Besides the lasers are damn useful and have excellent accuracy which wehen combined with the high speed of the unit should really put on the hurt.

With three Fire Toads in a squadron will I really need the second Steel Tac-Arm unit?

Question for Orlanth:

Is the Initiation set's rule book different than the $10 one you ordered separately ?

Did you ask about shipping for your order? , i was told the 3 initiation set takes up their 1 full box ( $31 )

Not sure if they'll charge double for the 2nd box.

LunaHound wrote:Question for Orlanth:

Is the Initiation set's rule book different than the $10 one you ordered separately ?

Apparently yes it is. Duncan idaho knows exactly what is missing. He implied it missed out the army points costs themselves as the Intitation set offers set scenarios with the box contents and doesnt account for list building.

I strongly recommend getting Initiation boxsets anyway with or wirthout the book the amount of minis you get for the price builds the core of two good armies. Even with current discounts on unit boxsets you will pay more for the two striders than you will for the entire Initiation box, especially the Fire Toad which is not discounted. In fact as stated above rather than pay $22 per Fire Toad I bought three intiation sets at $30 each, its a no brainer.
This is of little benefit if you only want Red Blok or Karmans. Indeed Red Blok are the faction that catches my imagination most. for that I will wait until the release of the $70 army boxset.

LunaHound wrote:
Did you ask about shipping for your order? , i was told the 3 initiation set takes up their 1 full box ( $31 )

Not sure if they'll charge double for the 2nd box.

Shipping was to an address in the USA where all the good will be depackaged for the journey to me. AT-43 stuff is very heavily overpackaged. I might get an initiation box or two itself inside the shipping box, but they will be filled with books, cards and minis in plastic bags. This will slash postage costs, postage to the reshipping address is free because of the order size.

Therian : storm golems ( bane goliath maybe? )
UNA: Tac arms
Red Blok : Collosus ( speznaz and rpg )
Karman: Wendigos

No/Yes. Since there are several factions to any main party it changes from faction to faction, also only the type (stars) is mandatory but not a specific unit.

Does 1 attachment unit fit right into 1 normal unit by itself?

Well, up until the apes yes. With the apes some units do have two attachement boxes to better cater to the players. Some units showing up since Januray follow this trend. Beginning with the deal army boxes there will be amajor change where you just buy whole units (everything included).

@Orlanth:

miniature market is willing to unpack the stuff for you to save shipping fee?

Ok, here is my first order.

Qty. Name Product ID Price Total
1 AT-43 Frostbite Bitz - Rulebooks (Campaign & Gaming Aid)
RKATX07-BK1 7.25 $ 7.25
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Goliaths Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATT16 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Medusa Unit Box
RKATT12 14.99 $ 14.99
1 AT-43 Therians Baal Golgoth (Clearance)
RKATT05 20.00 $ 20.00
2 AT-43 Therians Bane Goliaths Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATT15 10.00 $ 20.00
1 AT-43 Therians Storm Golem Attachment Box (Clearance)
RKATT11 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therians Tiamat Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATT07 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 Therians Assault Golem Attachement Box (Clearance)
RKATT14 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Death Dealer TacArm Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU18 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Colonel G. Stark XREPDROPDRIPz Cobra (Clearance)
RKATU09 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Defender Snake Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU05 15.00 $ 15.00
1 AT-43 UNA Jam Tacarm (Clearance)
RKATU19 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Steel Tacarms Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU17 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 U.N.A Open Steel TacArm (Promo Fig)
ATRKX2 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Lieutenant G. Epstone (Clearance)
RKATU21 6.00 $ 6.00
1 AT-43 UNA Shock Tacarms Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATU20 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 UNA Captain H. Newton Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATU08 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Sergeant A. Borz Hero Box (Clearance)
RKATU07 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 Accessory Medtec Unit Box (Clearance)
RKATX08 12.00 $ 12.00
3 AT-43 Initiation Set Operation Damocles (Clearance)
RKATX01 30.00 $ 90.00
1 AT-43 Rulebook (Clearance)
RKATX02 10.00 $ 10.00
1 AT-43 Therian Army Book (Clearance)
RKATT01 5.00 $ 5.00
1 AT-43 UNA Army Book (Clearance)
RKATU01 5.00 $ 5.00
Sub Total $ 325.24
Shipping/Handling $ 0.75
Sales Tax $ 0.00
Total $ 325.99

Take a look and tell me what is missing, but no cookie to the guy who say 'the Red Blok army'XREPDROPDRIPz that has to wait. So does the Frie Crawler.

Looks good, but go for another steel tacarm unit. To get full teams out of the Damocles boxes you would need to buy attachement boxes since the infantry units are just oversized unit box content.

Some points:

1. Yes I do mean three Initiation sets, that gives me the core of my infantry for both armies right there. Let alone three Fire Toads. I was going to get two Initiation sets but a full trio of Fire Toads sounded like it made sense, and for $8 more than one toad I might as well get a whole new boxset.

See comment above.

2. Assault Golem attachment but no Assault Golems. With three initiation boxsets I cannot see the reason to have any, Storm Golems do a similar job and Bane Goliaths and Assault Medusae yield the same firepower. I bought the boxset to have a different second Overseer for my Storm Golems and more importantly a full trio of flamers to add to another unit.

A question here: Why bother with Grim Golems either, except to take talon girl? From what I can see Storm Golems will cut anyone into little man chunks, ape chunks being marginally more difficult.

What I am thinking is that with Storm Golems and more Storm Golems as my root infantry I build up a faceless horde feel to the army, with the Goliaths providing the nearest thing to character. Firepower and asault value isnt bad either. So three maxed out Storm Golem units with two Overseers and enough flamers for one unit and sonic guns for all three, oh and one boxset of Assault Medusae for flavour. Good ** infantry horde Y/N?

Get the Assault Golems, you need them to field the attachement, also their wepons have a grater range. I several times managed to kill off an AFV with an Assault unit. Banes are AFV-hunters, but Assault have greater number and thus give you an advantage when controlling mission objectives (Higher number of unit member in contact is what counts). Medusa are heavy hitters, but slow and few.

Grims give you two CC attacks you will definitely need when teleporting with Atis. So it would be foolish not to get them. Also Atis can only join Grim Golems.

Therian are not an horde army and rely on their routines. Your army is not that cheap compared to the other human ones. You can´t rely on hordes you have to wisely choose the gears that keep your machine running.

3. I took the advice and got two boxes of Bane Goliaths rather than one, and a box of Assault Goliaths.

Good choice, Assault are usefull when you plan to support the Bane but also want the enemy infantry being taken care of.

4. Three Wraith Golgoths, I suspect I only really need two. I made a 4k point list with the army builder and couldnt sqeeeze in a third anyway, not with the Baal and Tiamat, and not without taking a third platoon. This was with a Cypher list.

I have seen lists with three. Many players prefer Poltergeist and Incubus since they are more specialized, but One or two Wraith don´t hurt.

5. Atis-Astarte was on clearance price but Grim Golems were not, another reason not to get any. Can I add Atis to a Storm Golem unit? and would I get any benefit for doing so. I strongly throught about buying the mini and replacing one set of blades with a nanoblaster for a third Overseer. Still I like the mini enough I may be talked into a set of grim Golems on the next pass, especially as all I will need is the unit boxset as I have three flamers spare already to make up a full unit.

You can only field Atis with a Grim Unit.

6. Right onto the U.N.A. Apart from the three Fire Toads I went for one of everything.

Good choice, onyl get another Steel TacArm and you might want to get another Toad for your hero, so you can have a 4er Toad Unit.

7. This does mean one Steel Tac Arm for now, though I did get the special edition miniture which if Duncan idaho is right will allow me to build a legal unit of 4.

Yes, you can field a unit of four, but only DD with Epstone, there are no other TacArm heros. Red Blok can field more thanks to Frostbite.

8. It also means a Shock Tac Arm which I had not previously considered. I diont know what good a single token close combat units will have, though I have heard that Shock Tac Arms can do the job, Shock Troopers just die. The other reason I am not rushing to buy Shock Troopers is due to model cost, they are not discounted.

Depends on your style of play, Shocks are seldom played but can hit hard if guided with wisdom.

9. My Death Dealers get their hero, Epstone, this unit costs twice the others in $$$. I hope she is worth it.

Does sound 24 dice per salvo good?

10. No Shock Trooper attachment boxset. The box was too expensive and my three Shock Trooper units are all full and have two missile launchers each anyway. From what I am reading this is enough. Later I can bit order some mechanics or medics, from what i have heard though lock shot missile launchers are all I really want for the infantry special weapons regardless. How many mechanics should I buy?

Depends on which faction you play and what advantages and disadvantages they have. Sometimes you need mor mechanics, sometimes more medics.

11. No Wing troopers or Star Troopers as of yet. I didnt buy from warstore but from Miniature Market, and they did not do a discount. I wont want more than one unit of each anyway.

Buy it later, what you got will do the job for quite some time.

12. Two ** striders the Cobra and the Snake. The Fire Crawler is tempting but too expensive for now, some with the M8.
while on this what are your thoughts on ther M8, with three Fire Toads some Steel Troopers and lot of locked missile launchers I wonder if I really need the direct fire gun. I am considering not buying at all, though I must say I do like the mini.

If you killed all enemy AFV and the enemy has mainly infantry around you really will cherish Cobras. Also you will need a hard hitter that can deliver a finishing blow.

13. Got the full rulebook and two army books, and bits ordered the Frostbite book (the reason I bought from Miniatures Market). This should ber everything until I buy the Red Blok book with the new army yes?

Should do the job.

14. Open to any other comments....

Slightly exhausted from answering..... tomorrow you can ask me new questions.

I think I would prefer the container. I really like the look of the chain guns but the more I look at the rules the more I am seeing it would be foolish to move away from default armament. It would be nice to have one armed with Iron Rain as a change, but from what I am reading this requires another slot and splits a unit into one and a pair.

Having some specialists around when infantry is swarming around you is quite nice. Later you will need one.

Is the Initiation set's rule book different than the $10 one you ordered separately ?

Yes it is, the linked pdf is an excerpt from the 10$. The Damocles is a rather basic introduction to TT and the absolut basics of AT. So you really need the 10$ one.

Looks good, but go for another steel tacarm unit. To get full teams out of the Damocles boxes you would need to buy attachement boxes since the infantry units are just oversized unit box content.

Sorry for so many questions Duncan >< , for 2 Damocle box sets , how many attachment do i fill them with? ( and which type of attachment? )

same question with Therians too.

Also, how long does their army book last for? will they get new ones when the army box come out?

Thank you!


Could you give me tips too same way with orlanth's list? super appreciated! ( *note Yes i love how tac arms look! )

1 AT-43 UNA Steel Tacarms Unit Box
3 AT-43 UNA Death Dealer TacArm Unit Box
1 AT-43 UNA Lieutenant G. Epstone
1 AT-43 U.N.A Open Steel TacArm (Promo Fig)

3 AT-43 UNA Colonel G. Stark & Cobra
3 AT-43 UNA Defender Snake Unit Box

* Therian list:

(contents in the Damocole set ) +
Nina / Babylon Zero ( for Lady In Red rule , how many kollosus can she take along? )
1 Bane Goliath Box
Tiamat
Baal Golgoth

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Looks good, but go for another steel tacarm unit.

No more Steel Tac-Arms I think. I am at 5k points already and excluding only the missing Fire Crawler and a minimum Wing Troopers unit.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
To get full teams out of the Damocles boxes you would need to buy attachement boxes since the infantry units are just oversized unit box content.

This I do not understand, you get a leader and eight troopers including two missile launchers. There are supposedly two leaders but I see no obvious leader at all. In any case a leader can be designated or even have sgt striped painted on, voila - full unit.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Get the Assault Golems, you need them to field the attachement,

I was clear on why I bought the attachment, to get enough flamers for an alternatve loadout for the Storm Golems asnd to have some nucleus cannon on the side for a support unit on the side, just for a change. I cannot afford to buy Assault Golems.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Grims give you two CC attacks you will definitely need when teleporting with Atis. So it would be foolish not to get them. Also Atis can only join Grim Golems.

So what do I need to buy? Atis and one unit boxset with the three flamers already collected would work yes? My Storms would have full sonic guns with no swapout but I can live with that.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Therian are not an horde army and rely on their routines. Your army is not that cheap compared to the other human ones. You can´t rely on hordes you have to wisely choose the gears that keep your machine running.

My sample full army has Tiamat and two Delrta overseers with the Golems, but that was a token list, at the moment I am getting just those three overseer models plus whichever Goliths and golgoths I promote to alpha. This should be enough yes?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Good choice, Assault are usefull when you plan to support the Bane but also want the enemy infantry being taken care of.

Glad I got this bit right.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
....Three Wraith Golgoths....

I have seen lists with three. Many players prefer Poltergeist and Incubus since they are more specialized, but One or two Wraith don´t hurt.

Modelling point: Is it feasible for me to hope to be able to swap over a weapon from two of them to get one of each type of ** Golgoth?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Good choice, only get another Steel TacArm and you might want to get another Toad for your hero, so you can have a 4er Toad Unit.

You are pretty insistant on the Steels. So you recommend Four Toads and six Steel Tac-Arms, which hero do I run with this (and which on foot) - I have bought both.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Depends on your style of play, Shocks are seldom played but can hit hard if guided with wisdom.

I am begining to think its not the powerlance but the flamer thats useful. Thats a lot of anti infantry firepower on a forward unit. Anyway the Shock tac Arm were for a bit of variety, I cannot claim to have a plan as yet. Do most Shock Tac Arm users spam them? and do they tag team with with Shock Troopers.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
.....My Death Dealers get their hero, Epstone, this unit costs twice the others in $$$. I hope she is worth it.....

Does sound 24 dice per salvo good?

I think this is going to break a few games.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Depends on which faction you play and what advantages and disadvantages they have. Sometimes you need mor mechanics, sometimes more medics.

The lists I have been loking at are default for the UNA and Cypher for the Therians. Not for the disadvantages and advantages but for the platoon organisation. As yet I have no medics and mechanics, as they are built fro units rather than added I might convert some Steel Troopers to a role. They carry the same gun so a medic backpack or toolkit should suffice. As I want at least one Steel Trooper attachment box at some point i should have aty least one of each coming eventually.
However I do have Borz and a Med Team to help out for now.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
If you killed all enemy AFV and the enemy has mainly infantry around you really will cherish Cobras. Also you will need a hard hitter that can deliver a finishing blow.

Only one Jam Tac Arm unit and one Defender are dedicated anti AFV in all I have got, not too much wastage there. I only have one dedicated anti infantry unit also most everything else is multi role.
Sounds though that you recommend a second Cobra is I want a third ** strider though, yes? To do this I need to buy another Col Stark and Copperhead boxset?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
Slightly exhausted from answering..... tomorrow you can ask me new questions.

Shall be waiting.

LunaHound wrote:

1 AT-43 UNA Steel Tacarms Unit Box
3 AT-43 UNA Death Dealer TacArm Unit Box
1 AT-43 UNA Lieutenant G. Epstone
1 AT-43 U.N.A Open Steel TacArm (Promo Fig)

3 AT-43 UNA Colonel G. Stark & Cobra
3 AT-43 UNA Defender Snake Unit Box

* Therian list:

(contents in the Damocole set ) +
Nina / Babylon Zero ( for Lady In Red rule , how many kollosus can she take along? )
1 Bane Goliath Box
Tiamat
Baal Golgoth

From what little I know:

1. Am I right in reading that you want 6 Defender striders and 14 Tac-Arm suits plus the Damocles set? I assume you want two platoons of Morningstar here.

2. You know the open steel tac arm suit is a single model, is not a hero and is only of use as an alternative model.

3. Three quarters of your strider firepower is locked shot only of use against vehicles. Three quarters of your Tac-Arm firepower is of use only against infantry. Against imbalanced lists, either way, you have a LOT of wastage.
Might you be better with some Fire Toads in place of some snakes? Ask around.

4. Do you want to make use of the Steel Troopers that come in the Initiation boxset, and for that matter the Fire Toad? You can use each to replace a sinlge Defender saving some money and some points and still have a valid Morningstar list.

LunaHound wrote:@Orlanth:

miniature market is willing to unpack the stuff for you to save shipping fee?

No, I have the order shipped to a third party, who depackages for me. US postage is free so its still only one trip paid for. Also depackaged goods are legally second hand and thus can be honstly and legally devalued for customs purposes. After all the packaging is not required to play, but does effect resale value.

LunaHound wrote:

Looks good, but go for another steel tacarm unit. To get full teams out of the Damocles boxes you would need to buy attachement boxes since the infantry units are just oversized unit box content.

Sorry for so many questions Duncan >< , for 2 Damocle box sets , how many attachment do i fill them with? ( and which type of attachment? )

Buy three Damocles boxsets, you get enough Storm Golems and wraith Golgoths to make an army of itself with very little added on. I only really added the Goliaths, Baal golgoth and a hero to make a big 5000pt army. Dirt cheap entry into the game.

You also get enough Fire Toads to make up a squadron- hence buying exactly three boxsets and lots odf Steel troopers too. depending on what you want you might have too many wraiths or Steel Troopers for your army and could have some 'wastage', however the Fire Toads will always be handy and because thery coast $22.50 each and the Intiation boxset sets you back only $30 I fail to see any reason not to triple up.
Note you can buy Initiation boxset Fire Toads as bits from miniatures Markwet at $18 each, but even so what else you get for $12 more than makes up.

The only thing you lose out on is lacking weapons options for the Fire Toads, but lasers are good yes.

Sorry for so many questions Duncan >< , for 2 Damocle box sets , how many attachment do i fill them with? ( and which type of attachment? )

same question with Therians too.

Depends, both are enough for a min.size unit, but a max. unit would need at least one attach for each party for every Damocles box. With Storm attach you get an Overseer, Flamer, additional Sonic Gun and Steel you get officer, vulcano mg, medic, mechanic and heavy laser. You won't field three units with all options included, but with three attach boxes each you have enough pieces to swap between units to create units tailored to their intended job.

Also, how long does their army book last for? will they get new ones when the army box come out?

Army boxes do only include a rather short, abreviated army booklet for starters. You will need the full army book and they are not intended to be rotated out because of e.g. a second edition. (Quite some time until a second edition).

1 AT-43 UNA Steel Tacarms Unit Box
3 AT-43 UNA Death Dealer TacArm Unit Box
1 AT-43 UNA Lieutenant G. Epstone
1 AT-43 U.N.A Open Steel TacArm (Promo Fig)

3 AT-43 UNA Colonel G. Stark & Cobra
3 AT-43 UNA Defender Snake Unit Box

Get another steel tacarm unit and for the time being you can drop DD TacArms to two. They are rather spezial TacArms who need Frostbite and a Morningstar or special DD-list to be fielded. They are interesting when the enemy has a lot of infantry with many soldiers in every unit. You can field only one Stark and you will field most of the times at best two Snakes/Cobra of the same type. So you can drop them to two. Get 2 attach boxes for the steel unit from Damocles and for you other steel unit box. Oh, and he´s right, get some Fire Toads.

* Therian list:

(contents in the Damocole set ) +
Nina / Babylon Zero ( for Lady In Red rule , how many kollosus can she take along? )
1 Bane Goliath Box
Tiamat
Baal Golgoth

She can take one RB unit with her, it's your choice which (in your case three kolossus)
Get another Bane Goliath unit and also the attachment box for the unit of the damocles box.
Also get either Atis and one Grim Golem unit or an Assault Golem Unit and Attach.



PS.: My comments aim at giving both of you you quite a good pool to start from and to learn how the game works. They are in no way a worked out list. There are at the time being one general- and 4 sub-faction-lists for each army and even they are rather flexible at what can be put into the list, so it would be impossible to already create a list.

Read your books, play some games and then buy additionel stuff that fits best to your preferred playing style/list.

1. Am I right in reading that you want 6 Defender striders and 14 Tac-Arm suits plus the Damocles set? I assume you want two platoons of Morningstar here.

2. You know the open steel tac arm suit is a single model, is not a hero and is only of use as an alternative model.

Q1-2: Yes those 14 tac arm are what i currently have , and i was wondering if they make legal units , or do i need to do something else with them
yes i already have the 6 strider models ( dont think its legal to field them all though? )
So basically with what i have listed above ( again, probably illegal list, i want to know what mandatory things do i need to be able to play )

4. Do you want to make use of the Steel Troopers that come in the Initiation boxset, and for that matter the Fire Toad? You can use each to replace a sinlge Defender saving some money and some points and still have a valid Morningstar list.

Yes , i would like to use the steel troopers ( thats what they are called? kk ) So each Initiation set of steel trooper i can attach 1 attachment units ?
Im guessing the morning star is something that allows me to mix 2 fire toads with one defender strider ?

Finally , i do like 3 Initiation Sets yes , but again they told me they wont be able to keep them in 1 box with the shipping price.
And i dont need 3 frogs since i already have the defenders in person ( if i understood correctly about been able to throw them together )

Also i apologize for causing confusion , i'll list what i currently have vs what i plan to order:

Have: the 14 tac arm , 6 defenders.

Ordering: 2 Initiation box , rule book , army book. Baal gogloth , Nina Babylon , Bane Goelm , Tiamat


So basically between what i have vs what im ordering , i wanted to ask what things am i missing or should add to make it
a playable legal army.


*Edit Duncan posted right before i pressed submit xD

No more Steel Tac-Arms I think. I am at 5k points already and excluding only the missing Fire Crawler and a minimum Wing Troopers unit.

You won't be able to field it all, but you need a good pool to choose from, so i would go for another. Besides standard battles are at 2500 and you should try out which army style fits your play. If it´s too much for now at least put it on a list what to get later.

This I do not understand, you get a leader and eight troopers including two missile launchers. There are supposedly two leaders but I see no obvious leader at all. In any case a leader can be designated or even have sgt striped painted on, voila - full unit.

Depends, both are enough for a min.size unit, but a max. unit would need at least one attach for each party for every Damocles box. With Storm attach you get an Overseer, Flamer, additional Sonic Gun and Steel you get officer, vulcano mg, medic, mechanic and heavy laser. You won't field three units with all options included, but with three attach boxes each you have enough pieces to swap between units to create units tailored to their intended job.

I was clear on why I bought the attachment, to get enough flamers for an alternatve loadout for the Storm Golems asnd to have some nucleus cannon on the side for a support unit on the side, just for a change. I cannot afford to buy Assault Golems.

OK. If it´s too much for now at least put it on a list what to get later.

So what do I need to buy? Atis and one unit boxset with the three flamers already collected would work yes? My Storms would have full sonic guns with no swapout but I can live with that.

Yes. Should do the job.

My sample full army has Tiamat and two Delrta overseers with the Golems, but that was a token list, at the moment I am getting just those three overseer models plus whichever Goliths and golgoths I promote to alpha. This should be enough yes?

Depends on which list you are playing, bit with Omega Tiamat you don´t need two Deltas. Make one an Alpha and if you really want to have an backup officer in case Tiamat really bites the dust, keep one Delta. You should read through the army book to get an impression of how to built your army. But should be enough for the moment. Goliaths can only get Relais but can´t become officers.

Modelling point: Is it feasible for me to hope to be able to swap over a weapon from two of them to get one of each type of ** Golgoth?

In the best case you just have to carefully wriggle them off their pegs in the worst case you have to cut the pegs and use some metal/plastic rods as replacement. The small round caps on the sides of the wepons can be removed and swapped to the other side. So, yes, if you can handle some tools it should be able to make one Poltergeist, one Wraith and one Incubbus with swapable parts.

You are pretty insistant on the Steels. So you recommend Four Toads and six Steel Tac-Arms, which hero do I run with this (and which on foot) - I have bought both.

I am fielding them myself this way and they sometimes really save the day, besides when one unit is killed I still have back-up and they are good at marking targets for bigger units. Borz or Newton can hop into the fourth FT. Borz is the fire control ace and Newton knows how to handle a wrench.

I am begining to think its not the powerlance but the flamer thats useful. Thats a lot of anti infantry firepower on a forward unit. Anyway the Shock tac Arm were for a bit of variety, I cannot claim to have a plan as yet. Do most Shock Tac Arm users spam them? and do they tag team with with Shock Troopers.

Spam is rather seldom with AT, you need an army that can cover several aspects of warfare, like with an modern army. Flamers are really hot if you can get them within the flamer distance, so yes, they really can be nice in such cases. But don' bet on their survival when marching them on an open field against enemy units . Besides Flamers in AT are round templates, since the substances used only ignite when they hit a target.

Does sound 24 dice per salvo good?

I think this is going to break a few games.

Not breaking, but your opponent wil stay the heck out of the way of this unit.

The lists I have been loking at are default for the UNA and Cypher for the Therians. Not for the disadvantages and advantages but for the platoon organisation. As yet I have no medics and mechanics, as they are built fro units rather than added I might convert some Steel Troopers to a role. They carry the same gun so a medic backpack or toolkit should suffice. As I want at least one Steel Trooper attachment box at some point i should have aty least one of each coming eventually.
However I do have Borz and a Med Team to help out for now.

Then it should do the job.

Only one Jam Tac Arm unit and one Defender are dedicated anti AFV in all I have got, not too much wastage there. I only have one dedicated anti infantry unit also most everything else is multi role.
Sounds though that you recommend a second Cobra is I want a third ** strider though, yes? To do this I need to buy another Col Stark and Copperhead boxset?

If you can get it at a good price I would go for another one. Second Stark can always be sold of on ebay if you dan´t want him.

Have: the 14 tac arm , 6 defenders.

Ordering: 2 Initiation box , rule book , army book. Baal gogloth , Nina Babylon , Bane Goelm , Tiamat

OK, If that´s what you got, it really needs a big game to include them all in a list, though it is still possible (4500 AP+ list I would say). But then you still really need some stuff to fill out the rest of your slots. Get what I suggested in the last post to you and forget about the dropping.