Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hmm im testing the Easy AT-43 , and the numbers are very interesting.

Urod vs fire toad (25% target destroyed)

3 RPG kollosus vs fire toad (43%)

If got to warn you:

EasyAT is not perfect and some things are hard to implement with the Easy-engine. Whenever you create a list, check back with the AB to make sure that your list is in line with it. There are some rare instances where EasyAT produces incorrect lists.

Thanks Duncan !

Im just playing with it for the following:

-Good instant stats without flipping through cards.
-Makes me understand abit more about the weapon options before my army book arrives.
-Realizing how small the armies are at 2000 points... cant fit anything in!

How large are the usual games? seems like even at 2000 for the Easy at-43 program it can only fit a few units.

Here are some list i come up with :

1995: 1st try

Platoon 1
- Defender Snake
- Defender Snake
- Copperhead (+ Colonel G. Stark)
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms (+ Lieutenant G. Epstone)
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms

2000 : 2nd try

Platoon 1
- 1 Fire Toad
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms
- 1 Fire Toad
- Defender Cobra
Platoon 2
- Defender Cobra
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms

LunaHound wrote:

How large are the usual games? seems like even at 2000 for the Easy at-43 program it can only fit a few units.

Here are some list i come up with :

1995: 1st try

Platoon 1
- Defender Snake
- Defender Snake
- Copperhead (+ Colonel G. Stark)
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms (+ Lieutenant G. Epstone)
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms

2000 : 2nd try

Platoon 1
- 1 Fire Toad
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms
- 1 Fire Toad
- Defender Cobra
Platoon 2
- Defender Cobra
- 3 Death Dealer TacArms

Qhich platoon (faction) are you using? Generic, Mind, centCom?

Remember, only troops can control objectives (with a few exceptions) too much death dealers, killed fairly easily ---try more combinations

Example

Union
Advantage:
All infantry units get the ability "Nerves of steel". The fighters of these units never need to roll Morale tests.
Disadvantage:
Each combat drill costs 2 LP.

Assault
- 12 Star Troopers (Sergeant, 2 Missile Launcher)
- 2 Fire Toad (+ Sergeant A. Borz)
- Copperhead (+ Colonel G. Stark)

REserve
- 9 Steel Troopers (Sergeant, 2 Laser Gun)
- 3 Steel TacArms (Sergeant)

2500pts appears to be the usual size for a game, the limit is customary and probably largely based on the cost of collecting miniatures.

However since the firesale a lot of 5000pt battle reports are appearing on the forums. As players used to such things as apocalypse games with titans join in there could be a growing hunger for larger games.

I am already envisioning my hulking Therian horde with a swarm of golems backed up by Wraith Golgoths and two massive Baal Golgoths.

You can idea how BIG this game is yet. I saw a size comparison, the Steel troopers are similar size to marines, Tac Arms are just a little smaller than terminators, but a lot less bulky. As for the striders I thought they might be Dreadnought size, no they are not, onkly the smaller ones are....

Stuff the descriptions, here are some pictures courtesy of weetoysoldiers.com



















A light strider towering over a Hellhound




Here is the best one


so if a Wraith Golgoth is that big....

How big is the Baal?


2000pt lists like the one you made appear small but are or par with Warmachine army sizes. The lists i am buying for are 5000pts plus, and growing alarmingly. I was after 5k points now I am looking at 7k or even 8k just to get all the toys in. If you check the forums this is becoming more common and will only continue to do so once the Red Blok army comes out and people start spamming commie hordes with multiple boxsets for about as much as it takes to buy a 1500pt Space Marine army and far less than to collect Imperial Guard.

I'll help contribute! more size comparisons

Ok, I will have to wait until I order before I get the Red Blok army book, and am hearing about the special rules the * striders have.
I am interested in learning more and must kniow before the order, not after getting the Army Book to maske best use of ther information.


1. Does the Nokavalny have a special ability? If not why is it the same price as the others.


2. How do Disruption, Loudspeakers and Motion Sensors work?


3. Can Sgt Timofiyeva be given a Sierp or Molot of Zveizda. People are talking about the benefits of using her with Sierps and I am getting confused because I thought she could only ride a Nokavalny.

1. Does the Nokavalny have a special ability? If not why is it the same price as the others.

No special abilities, but two nice 3-shot weapons with a range of 4. Kozni (Tymo's Nakovalny, on the other hand has two special abilities that steal LP from the enemies and allows you to change the activation order of your opponent).

2. How do Disruption, Loudspeakers and Motion Sensors work?

Every Disruption unit takes away 1 LP from all enemies present on the battlefield, i.e. 3 Sierps = 3 LP less for all your opponents.
LS just counters Dragonov Electronic warfare specialists and Tymos special abilities.
Motion Sensor disables Stealth abilities.

3. Can Sgt Timofiyeva be given a Sierp or Molot of Zveizda. People are talking about the benefits of using her with Sierps and I am getting confused because I thought she could only ride a Nokavalny.

Normally she just can get a Nako, everything else is simply "house rules".

Quick question rar!

What does jammers do? is that like disruption?

Jammers do hit like normal weapons but just need a 2+ or 3+ to inflict damage.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Jammers do hit like normal weapons but just need a 2+ or 3+ to inflict damage.

noooooo!!!!!!

Too late >< already pressed order button a few hours ago without them . ( was thinking of getting the karman with jammer i love how they look )


Shipping/Handling $ 56.50


ow ><;;;;;;;

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

1. Does the Nokavalny have a special ability? If not why is it the same price as the others.

No special abilities, but two nice 3-shot weapons with a range of 4. Kozni (Tymo's Nakovalny, on the other hand has two special abilities that steal LP from the enemies and allows you to change the activation order of your opponent).

As even Frontline have limited slots available for striders is there any point of using a Nakovalny at all? In all the lists I am looking at I need every strider slot available for other stuff and any afford a strider slot just to give a lift to blondes.

Or to rephrase the question is there a downside to using Tymo on her own at the back with an infantry squad? Is Kozni plus Krasny Soldaty the same price as Nakovalny plus equal squad of Krasny Soldaty with Tymo?

LunaHound wrote:

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Jammers do hit like normal weapons but just need a 2+ or 3+ to inflict damage.

noooooo!!!!!!

Too late >< already pressed order button a few hours ago without them . ( was thinking of getting the karman with jammer i love how they look )


Shipping/Handling $ 56.50


ow ><;;;;;;;

Hmm I missed out on a few bits in my first order.

Which army have you missed out with Jammers on?

I cannot see how you can order monkeys without running accross jammers so I suspect you left out Jam TacArms if sodont worry too much, they are colourful but you have other tools for the job. And I am repeatedly told Steel TacArms are better.

LunaHound wrote:
Quick question rar!

What does jammers do? is that like disruption?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Jammers do hit like normal weapons but just need a 2+ or 3+ to inflict damage.

Lets add to that.

Jammers are EW (Electronic Warfare) weapons, to some extent they exist today and are used to scramble missiles. in AT-43 the technology is perfected and they do damasge to vehicles by frying circuitry, as people and we loosely include Therians here are not run on circuitry they are immune to damage. Remember The Matrix when Morpheus explains to Neo "EMP, Electro Magnetic Pulse the only weapon we have against the machines" EMP is the 'nuke' version a jammer is a beam of EMP energy, but essentially the same thing.

These weapons will ruin even a Dotch Yaga but has no effect on an infantryman even if you want it to and no matter how many times you try.

Heros can always be added to units, i.e. Tymo and a unit of Nakovalny can have the same slot > 1 unit > 3 Nakos+ Tymo and Kozni.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:Heros can always be added to units, i.e. Tymo and a unit of Nakovalny can have the same slot > 1 unit > 3 Nakos+ Tymo and Kozni.

Ok Duncan_Idaho as a Sentinel you might want to encourage me to buy in, but why in honesty would I want four of a walker its probably not worth taking one of?

Or to re-issue the question is there a downside to using Tymo on her own at the back with an infantry squad? Is Kozni plus Krasny Soldaty the same price as Nakovalny plus equal squad of Krasny Soldaty with Tymo?

I am going to fill my vehicle slots anyway, I just need help as to what. I lijke Nakovalny models and might buy them and some Sierps anyway, whether they stay what they are or get turned into zviezdas is another matter.
I noticed that the Zviezda also has longer range gauss guns than a Nakovalny, have Nakovalny been given an accuracy boost as a result or are they still languishing at 4. The stealth negating seems very useful too, though not quite as useful as LP stripping sounds.

A Zviezda has only one Gauss Gun and one Mortar, while a Nakovalny has two Gauss Guns. With regard to AFV a unit of Nakovalny is better at killing them. Nakovalny is the Fire Toad of the Red Blok.

A lone Tymo, even with support from infantry is easier to kill. An often used tactic is to have a unit of Nakos advance while a unit of infantry (+mechanics) advances behind them. With 4 Nakos the enemy does not get VP for killings that easily even when he manages to kill one Nako. All type * AFV do have their missions where they shine and missions where they are not so good. Since AT is driven mainly by its missions it depends on which missions you are going to play.

Now I am looking at the At-43 furom a lot and repeatedly seeing how whwen asked about imblanced units the usual asnswer is to look at the scenario and its 'all situational'.

When that is essentially true about anything where movement and cover are factors it is no real excuse and appears to me at least to be ther At-43 variant of "use tactics". After all if a situation can level two imbalanced units and the situation was reverseed that natuirally superior unit/army would have an easier job of defeating the poorly balanced one.

So my next point is how does Red Blok cope on the level playing field, with terrain to reduce some field of fire assumed.

The Nakovlany was just put to me as a Fire Toad equivalent, in a make do sense perhaps it is, but six Acc4 Pen7 shots is a lot different from two 'twin linked' Acc8 Pen14 shots. Even if we assume the Red Blok can close without getting shot and level the range the Nakovalny is firing at range 4 requiring a 4+ to hit and 5+ to kill a Tac/Arm or Goliath, and 6+ to damage a Fire Toad or Hekat. It cant hurt a ** strider. unless you use some of the rare weapons that Red Blok cannot easily take in numbers, Hetman cannon and Hussar locked shots (which only hit on a 4+) you are relying on getting very close with rockets. Now rocketsd will admittedly screw over anything UNA, even the Fire Crawler will be hurt on a 5+, everything else 4+ or better. But the Pen14 lasers do same back and they star sooner and rarely miss.

Ok, what gives. Turning the situation and looking at the scenario is not a good excuse, as borth sides can do that. That is for the player to take advantage of not to level poor balance - or completely tople an unmatched opponent.

So faer I have seen few invisible advantages to Red Blok. Armour is ppparently not one of them, as everyone else has anti armour weapons far nastier than the Pen12 that the bulk of Red Blok firepower plateaus at. There is an awful amount of Pen14 and Pen15 weapons about.
So far I noticed that Red Blok can likely out LP the opponent by having cheap units, but again this only applies to light infantry, Red Blok vehicles are often more expensive - but no better than their adversaries. More to the point they can strip LP with heroes and certain units, but that means spamming the same walker over and over.
What else is there to balance Red Blok, I get the impression I am missing sometyhing, and its not just 'use tactics'.

RB is the army that requieres the most tactical thinking ofd a gamer.

There are several pros to RB:

- Dragonov Snipers (especially deadly if deployed as mitliple mini-units)

- Armour. In most games RBs stronger armour keeps the AFV from being annihilated. You might need to repair them, but in a comparable situation your enemy does not fare as good.

- Kolossus. Slow, but good at guarding mission points, get them in by using speed-up or call them in as reinforcement, which allows you to place them much closer to the enemy lines.

- Electronical Warfare: Keep stealing LP from your enemy.

You might need to get close, but RB really is unstoppable once they are in CC. Make use of the scenery and force your opponent to react instead of you being the one who reacts. Use your special abillities like Tymos ability to rearrange the order of cards of your opponent.

The learning curve is steep with RB, but every victory you earn by hard work and you can be proud of it.

Don´t rely too much on mathematics, use your psychological advantages. Your enemy hates flamers and snipers, cause they hurt him bad once the hit. Use it against him.

Thanks for that.

Some things I was looking at.

Dragonov squads with ATGauss. - Really the exception in the army list as they have a high power accurate weapon. Twin linked accuracy 7 power 14 gun, but how does it play. If I am relying on Dragonov for ranged anti tank will it truly work, they are slow and still infantry. Do they in fact just get picked on?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
- Dragonov Snipers (especially deadly if deployed as mitliple mini-units)

I had already seen that one, three snipers for 125pts is a steal. Its also a cheap unit so I can afford to take a few to fill up platoons and unlock fresh platoons for the prime slots.
I take it ATGauss teams wont work as well, because accuracy 7 means they have to get that much closer and are too easy to pick off as a result.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
- Armour. In most games RBs stronger armour keeps the AFV from being annihilated. You might need to repair them, but in a comparable situation your enemy does not fare as good.

This is what worries me, all other armies have massed power 13 and 14 guns in infantry and vehicles alike. They hit Red Blok armour harder than rockets hit theirs. Are the tanks, *** infantry really any more survivable. admittedly UNA on the lower end of the armour stakes have problems that you can wound their TacArms on a 6 with a basic rifle, but apart from that there appears to be little relevant difference.
How do Red Blok capitalise on the extra point or two of armour they get?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
- Electronical Warfare: Keep stealing LP from your enemy.

Does the Dragonov specialist have this ability?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:
You might need to get close, but RB really is unstoppable once they are in CC. Make use of the scenery and force your opponent to react instead of you being the one who reacts. Use your special abillities like Tymos ability to rearrange the order of cards of your opponent.

Ok this is another bit I dont understand. Therians have claws and gun or claws and claws on each infantry. Karmans are gorillas in power armour. UNA are fairly wimpy but at leaat have some close combat specialists. I must be missing something, why would a Red Blok army want to assault anyone? Other than a heavy strider stomping on infantry I dont see whats in it for them.



Don´t rely too much on mathematics, use your psychological advantages. Your enemy hates flamers and snipers, cause they hurt him bad once the hit. Use it against him.

More questions on Red Blok:

Extant questions.

1. capitalising on Red Blok armour.
This is what worries me, all other armies have massed power 13 and 14 guns in infantry and vehicles alike. They hit Red Blok armour harder than rockets hit theirs. Are the tanks, *** infantry really any more survivable. admittedly UNA on the lower end of the armour stakes have problems that you can wound their TacArms on a 6 with a basic rifle, but apart from that there appears to be little relevant difference.
How do Red Blok capitalise on the extra point or two of armour they get?


2. Red Blok as an assault army.
Ok this is another bit I dont understand. Therians have claws and gun or claws and claws on each infantry. Karmans are gorillas in power armour. UNA are fairly wimpy but at leaat have some close combat specialists. I must be missing something, why would a Red Blok army want to assault anyone? Other than a heavy strider stomping on infantry I dont see whats in it for them.


3. Red Blok LP draining.
Is there a cap on how many LP a Red Blok army is entitled to steal? For example GenCol lists spamming Sierps, Dragonov Kommandos and Sgt Tymofiyevas over and over.
Is there a limit, and is there away around LP negating builds because this looks like a decidedly unfun army to play against.


4. Hussar vs Hetman vs Kossak
I have been looking at the ** striders, Kossak offers mnore of the same rockets, Hetman and Hussar both offer a bit of range and something different, up til now I looked maninly at the Hetman becaujse it looks good and has the accuracy 6 power 18 gun. My next question is about ratios of the above. The occassional long range gun is little more than an annoyance, to take a lot of them will be of huge investment cost. So I am now looking for thoughts on what sort of balance amongst the medium striders should be sought. Do I stick to my range bracket and just rely on short ranged rockets or try and build up some worrthwhile longer range fire support?


5. Dotch Yaga.
First what are your thoughts on *** striders in general. Something to be used on occassionaly or a staple of army lists? Now to the Dotch, in keeping with Red Blok theme is doesnt have much range, though at least it does not slow the line down. I cannot work out a combo of Red Blok vehicles that equals its firepower for the same cost, yet it looks like its prey to *** vehicle of other ranges who can outrange andc destroy it. Firecrawler sees it and shoot first Is this the answer the Red Blok are looking for, or a big fat target that wil be shot to bits with with locked shot missiles, monkey jammers or wraith sniper shots long before it gets into range? does this vehicle require a lot of support to survive, and if so what.

I think this just about wraps it up for Red Blok. I hope I should know enough now to be able to order up exactly what I need to fill my army lists and with an efficient selection of swap out units whiklev remaining within my budget.

Orlanth wrote:More questions on Red Blok:

Extant questions.

1. capitalising on Red Blok armour.
This is what worries me, all other armies have massed power 13 and 14 guns in infantry and vehicles alike. They hit Red Blok armour harder than rockets hit theirs. Are the tanks, *** infantry really any more survivable. admittedly UNA on the lower end of the armour stakes have problems that you can wound their TacArms on a 6 with a basic rifle, but apart from that there appears to be little relevant difference.
How do Red Blok capitalise on the extra point or two of armour they get?


2. Red Blok as an assault army.
Ok this is another bit I dont understand. Therians have claws and gun or claws and claws on each infantry. Karmans are gorillas in power armour. UNA are fairly wimpy but at leaat have some close combat specialists. I must be missing something, why would a Red Blok army want to assault anyone? Other than a heavy strider stomping on infantry I dont see whats in it for them.


3. Red Blok LP draining.
Is there a cap on how many LP a Red Blok army is entitled to steal? For example GenCol lists spamming Sierps, Dragonov Kommandos and Sgt Tymofiyevas over and over.
Is there a limit, and is there away around LP negating builds because this looks like a decidedly unfun army to play against.


4. Hussar vs Hetman vs Kossak
I have been looking at the ** striders, Kossak offers mnore of the same rockets, Hetman and Hussar both offer a bit of range and something different, up til now I looked maninly at the Hetman becaujse it looks good and has the accuracy 6 power 18 gun. My next question is about ratios of the above. The occassional long range gun is little more than an annoyance, to take a lot of them will be of huge investment cost. So I am now looking for thoughts on what sort of balance amongst the medium striders should be sought. Do I stick to my range bracket and just rely on short ranged rockets or try and build up some worrthwhile longer range fire support?


5. Dotch Yaga.
First what are your thoughts on *** striders in general. Something to be used on occassionaly or a staple of army lists? Now to the Dotch, in keeping with Red Blok theme is doesnt have much range, though at least it does not slow the line down. I cannot work out a combo of Red Blok vehicles that equals its firepower for the same cost, yet it looks like its prey to *** vehicle of other ranges who can outrange andc destroy it. Firecrawler sees it and shoot first Is this the answer the Red Blok are looking for, or a big fat target that wil be shot to bits with with locked shot missiles, monkey jammers or wraith sniper shots long before it gets into range? does this vehicle require a lot of support to survive, and if so what.

I think this just about wraps it up for Red Blok. I hope I should know enough now to be able to order up exactly what I need to fill my army lists and with an efficient selection of swap out units whiklev remaining within my budget.

1. capitalising on Red Blok armour.
Res Blok Armor is the BEST, this does not mean I can survive long if enough missiles and/or Laser guns and/or jammers hit them, but compared to all the Others the possibility to only scratch the paint is higher (I hate to see how much % is to hit and so on at x distance…it sucks) suffice to say that RB resist more than others… except jammers, they kill a bigger armors as easy as small ones.

If your opponent has enough missiles they WILL destroy an AFV faster…that’s granted, but they willhave less weapons to deal with infantry as missiles are only Anti-AFV (same as jammers) the laser gun can destroy an AFV given enough time, but they “only” make 1 damage… so just take care of positioning and eliminate those annoying Steel Tac Arms before your AFV shows face…

2. Red Blok as an assault army.
Eliminate those GW thoughts, assault, in this case does not mean to take a knife and kill someone, this mean that RB must get close- really close… to do significant damage, and if they do the opponent will regret it… so assault means attack, be bold and get close NOT close combat per se.

3. Red Blok LP draining.
The total pool of LP is the LP value of the company commander + 1 LP for each unit…. each Dragonov “electronic warfare specialist” , Sierp and each Timofiyeva /Kozni will reduce the enemy(ies) LP pool by one, but they cannot be reduced to less than the “normal” LP for the commander.


4. Hussar vs Hetman vs Kossak
Red blok is for getting close, be it a kossak, krasny with rockets or RPG kollossus, just to name some examples…. you can have a long range army if you prefer, and although it could be successful, you are outranged and outgunned by all other armies… . I like the three ** aFV, and each has its own role depending on the scenario/mission

5. Dotch Yaga.
In less than 2000 any type *** AFV is going to be the main target/killer more than that I believe they are more balanced… Again Armor 17 is the highest so far so DY will survive a lot….

I get why the DY is included in the Army Box...by putting that and Krasnye Soldaty in there, the DY being not released otherwise in the original camo scheme, and Krasnye Soldaty being sold out, there's an incentive for existing Red Blok players to purchase the Army Boxes to supplement what they already own.

What I don't get is how this list is going to be competitive. Urod is resilient due to the twins' Repair ability x2, and if Urod sticks close to the DY and helps keep it up and running, with its high Armor the DY can stick around for quite a while...

...but once Urod and the DY go down, this Red Blok list has lost its teeth, hasn't it? I only hear about people taking Krasnye Soldaty for the Mechanics, and in this list if they stick around the Striders to repair then they aren't taking objectives; and the Dragonov Unit is Min sized and therefore can be killed in a turn or two of anti-infantry fire, or easily suppressed with indirect fire weapons.

At 2000 points, Type Three Striders feel like a points sink...kind of like the equivalent of a "top-heavy" army in 40K. Lose that expensive unit at the top of the food chain, and the rest of the list falls apart.

But that's also smart marketing - it means that the Army Box purchasers may get a few games in against veteran players, figure out that they need to supplement sooner rather than later to compete, and then start getting the unit boxes.

The aim of the boxes ist give the beginner a good mixture of everything which allows him to learn by trial and error during his first games.

Do you think the Red Blok list in the box will be competitive, though, Duncan? Honest question - I really don't know as I've never played with that many Krasnye Soldaty. I never ran more than one unit, favoring RPG Soldaty instead and with MG Gauss instead of Rocket Launchers, which I usually stick on the Spetsnatz Kommandos for the higher Accuracy. And the fact that they're free special weapon choices in both cases and saves me 50 AP for other things.

I've also never proxied a Dotch Yaga so I have no idea how resilient it actually is against a Jammer-heavy Karman list, or against a fusillade of U.N.A. laser-guided missiles.

I dont think the army boxes are supposed to be competetive as much as interesting and varied.

Each boxset has the top end model in it as an eye catcher. That is as far as I will attempt to describe or compare the Cogs as I have no further interest in them.

In additon to the top end unit you get some bottom end units properly fleshed out, i.e. not with half useful attavhment boxes but with tailored useful loadouts of men and equipment. Frankly its a more useful start. Then you get some characters and something inbetween.

It also deliberately lacks in this case no 8striders and ***infantry, both of which look fun to add to a collection, so it encourages future expansion.

Whether it is a tight 2k points list I dont know, and dont really care. They have already stolen a march on GW by produci9ng army boxes this way, full legal and points matching armies straight from the box.

What I do assume however is that the Army boxes are likely to be balanced against each other. So if someone buys Red Blok and someone else buys Cog the two armies should be matched. This can again only help, like 40k we need more people to play variety lists rather than tourney ready competetive ones, they tend to be boring and spam out the same few units.

I for one welcome the army boxsets, and would like to get a low down on what the Therian and UNA boxes will contain, atually for no less reasdon than to find out if I get some Star Troopers and a Fire Crawler in the UNA box, because I dont feel like paying out for the current model if i can avoid it.

It is a good start and between beginners competetive. Against experienced gamers you need to get some additional units, but you won´t want not to include the contents of the box.

Like Cairnius says , the vets would love to complete their list with what the army box offers.

And me a beginner always welcome such variety of different units in an army box.

Its win win!