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*K after reading Ducan's latest post i'll edit in his recommendations with what i have

Have: the 14 tac arm , 6 defenders.

Ordering: 2 Initiation box , rule book , army book. Baal gogloth , Nina Babylon , Bane Goelm , Tiamat

*Addition from Duncan: 2 UNA steel attachment box ( uhoh out of stock ) , 2 storm golem attachment box , ( did you say earlier more bane goliath ? total of 6 to go with Nina? )

Steel tac arms you wanted , are they light lasers ? ( same ones as fire toad in the ini set? )

2 storm golem attachment box , ( did you say earlier more bane goliath ? total of 6 to go with Nina? )

Two bane goliath units are good and give you quite some needed fire power, one unit of three can be fielded with Nina as the fourth. And then you have another unit to create havoc somwhere else.

Steel tac arms you wanted , are they light lasers ? ( same ones as fire toad in the ini set?

Yes and yes. Hit hard, but can´t take as hard a punch as a FT does, but are way cheaper.

Hmm there is nothing i can do about steel attachment unit out of stock ( so fire power aside , can the Ini set be fielded legally atleast? )

Same with storm golems ?

Yes it can. There should be some attach out with the next wave (Frostbite Camo). Possible that the old Attach boxes are sold out

Once again thanks, this is to me At-theory with half information and no real experience, but I have no choice. If I wait until post firesale to get exactly the minis I need it will be too late to get in the game. also the armies might look big, but how many of us 40k players would buy an army bigger than these for far more before starting. If I was to replace each trooper with an cadian, each strider with a Sentinel or Dreadnough and each battlesuit/goliath with a marine I would have enough here for two very small and incomplete armies. It only looks a lot because AT-43 is played smaller scale.

Current price for a boxset of Tac-Arms $10, usual price is $30, and can reach that price in pounds if bought over here. low prices are due to Fantasy Flight Games not renewing the licence and needing to sell off company stock, the only intended discount items are the Army boxes at $70 and E70 respectively, if you want in you can wait on only those.

So lessons learned so far:

1. For UNA I need to get on the next run:

1x Steel Tac-Arm boxset
1x Fire Crawler
1x Wing trooper boxset
1x Wing trooper attachment boxset
1x Fire Toad* for a four toad unit.

Medics and mechanics for my Steel troopers. Now Duncan idaho say that the initiation boxsets are good for 'minimum' units but not complete. If I already have two special weapons and a full squad of nine what am I truly missing? Attachment boxsets are not discounted, I should be able to convert up medics and mechanics and so am missing out only on the other weapon options.

For Therians:

1x Atis Astarte
1x Grim Golems (enough for a unit of nine with three flamers and the hero)

Then its onto my Reds, new starting projection here is:

1x Army box (Dotch Yaga, Urod, 20 krasny Soldaty, 6 Dragonov Kommando)
1x Steilitz Kolossus
1x RPG Kollossus
2x Dragomirov Kolossus
1x Lt Dragomira
3x Nokovalny
1x Molot
1x Sgt Timofiveya
1x Hetman (Urod boxset)
1x Kossak
1x Cpt Vrachov
1x Krasny Solday boxset
1x Krasny Soldaty attachment boxset
1x Dragonov Kommando unit boxset
1x Dragonov Kommando unit attachment boxset

Items not discounted in italics, trying to minimise these.

* This might mean a fourth Initiation boxset, at that point I will start dumping excess minis onto eBay.

You can also get a fourth Nakovalny for Tymo if you want.

*another question:

Do all tac arms have Laser designation ?

Orlanth wrote:Once again thanks, this is to me At-theory with half information and no real experience, but I have no choice. If I wait until post firesale to get exactly the minis I need it will be too late to get in the game. also the armies might look big, but how many of us 40k players would buy an army bigger than these for far more before starting. If I was to replace each trooper with an cadian, each strider with a Sentinel or Dreadnough and each battlesuit/goliath with a marine I would have enough here for two very small and incomplete armies. It only looks a lot because AT-43 is played smaller scale.

Current price for a boxset of Tac-Arms $10, usual price is $30, and can reach that price in pounds if bought over here. low prices are due to Fantasy Flight Games not renewing the licence and needing to sell off company stock, the only intended discount items are the Army boxes at $70 and E70 respectively, if you want in you can wait on only those.

So lessons learned so far:

1. For UNA I need to get on the next run:

1x Steel Tac-Arm boxset
1x Fire Crawler
1x Wing trooper boxset
1x Wing trooper attachment boxset
1x Fire Toad* for a four toad unit.

Medics and mechanics for my Steel troopers. Now Duncan idaho say that the initiation boxsets are good for 'minimum' units but not complete. If I already have two special weapons and a full squad of nine what am I truly missing? Attachment boxsets are not discounted, I should be able to convert up medics and mechanics and so am missing out only on the other weapon options.

For Therians:

1x Atis Astarte
1x Grim Golems (enough for a unit of nine with three flamers and the hero)

Then its onto my Reds, new starting projection here is:

1x Army box (Dotch Yaga, Urod, 20 krasny Soldaty, 6 Dragonov Kommando)
1x Steilitz Kolossus
1x RPG Kollossus
2x Dragomirov Kolossus
1x Lt Dragomira
3x Nokovalny
1x Molot
1x Sgt Timofiveya
1x Hetman (Urod boxset)
1x Kossak
1x Cpt Vrachov
1x Krasny Solday boxset
1x Krasny Soldaty attachment boxset
1x Dragonov Kommando unit boxset
1x Dragonov Kommando unit attachment boxset

Items not discounted in italics, trying to minimise these.

* This might mean a fourth Initiation boxset, at that point I will start dumping excess minis onto eBay.

I would NOT use 3 Nakovalnies 1 would get ONE only when I need timofiyeva in AFV, otherwise I will any day any time get Sierps indirect fire (more potential to KILL or Ground). I personally would go for more Krasny (Grenades Launchers and Rocket Launchers) and RPG Soldaty for RPG.-... Dragonovs I will get 3-5 complete units in ratio 2:3 of Snipers /AT Gauss gun

LunaHound wrote:*Side Red Blok question:

Are the Molotv and Hussar their only anti AFV units?

Molot is Anti infantry and maybe Anti type 1 AFV (not so effective as it can only hurt once)

Hussar-Hetman-Kossak- dotch Yaga all are Anti AFV and Infantry alike

all Rocket Lanuchers (RPG and Dragomirov Kollossus, Kransy and RPG soldat)
AT Gauss Gun from the Dragonov Komandos

Wolfen wrote:
I would NOT use 3 Nakovalnies 1 would get ONE only when I need timofiyeva in AFV, otherwise I will any day any time get Sierps indirect fire (more potential to KILL or Ground).

I heard nasty things about Sierps, 'borkan' comments same as heard over babylon zero. Besides I am looking at Zviezda as an alternative best of both worlds.

Can I mix * striders in a squadron or must all be the same? It would be nice to have a mixed unit led by sgt Timofiyeva.

I was looking at the Nakovalny as a one size fits all unit to march forward at the right time and blow to snot whatever tasrget is designated to die. its also on discount, as with the Molot, the Sierp and Zviezda are full price. I have to take this into account.

So far I envision a single Molot is there for the loudspeakers - you only need one comrade shouting to stop enemy disruption yes? it also looks like a nice lurking counterattack unit.

Wolfen wrote:
I personally would go for more Krasny (Grenades Launchers and Rocket Launchers) and RPG Soldaty for RPG.-... Dragonovs I will get 3-5 complete units in ratio 2:3 of Snipers /AT Gauss gun

RPG Soldat, sound stupid when most of them are not armed with RPG's. Besides looking at the krasny I get all I need right there and they can take the same rockets too. Besides trading 2 accuracy and my reroll for an extra shot on the basic weapon doesnt look like a deal. Even at point blank range those clowns will miss.

Also while on this why would I ever want Spetsnaz? dragonovs on the other hand sound tasty. So you reckon I max out on snipers and atgauss yes. ok, how many medics and Ew specialists should I include?

Wolfen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:*Side Red Blok question:

Are the Molotv and Hussar their only anti AFV units?

Molot is Anti infantry and maybe Anti type 1 AFV (not so effective as it can only hurt once)

Hussar-Hetman-Kossak- dotch Yaga all are Anti AFV and Infantry alike

all Rocket Lanuchers (RPG and Dragomirov Kollossus, Kransy and RPG soldat)
AT Gauss Gun from the Dragonov Komandos

Can Molots pay themselves back in the 'one shot' you get, also while lurking does Loudspeaker pay for itself in your opinion?

RPGs in the basic infantry really jack up the price and are only accuracy 1, any reason not to take grenade launchers instead and rely on something else - read Kolossi - for the AT firepower.

With the downloadable rules being incomplete I am still trying to work out how flamers are used. what does the [25] mean. I am currently guessing they are very short range but never miss.

@Orlanth , i have heard lots of praises on the Winter Camo Molots . Buy it if even for the super paint job for it!

On a side note, why dont game sellers list the basic requirement + minimum unit size for products ><
i know we should have army book, but for the ones that buys it all at once need more info ~

All striders in a unit must be of the same type.

[25] means the range in cm and designates weapon that have an auto-hit up to the distance in []. It´s also their max. range.

Orlanth wrote:

Wolfen wrote:
I would NOT use 3 Nakovalnies 1 would get ONE only when I need timofiyeva in AFV, otherwise I will any day any time get Sierps indirect fire (more potential to KILL or Ground).

I heard nasty things about Sierps, 'borkan' comments same as heard over babylon zero. Besides I am looking at Zviezda as an alternative best of both worlds.

Can I mix * striders in a squadron or must all be the same? It would be nice to have a mixed unit led by sgt Timofiyeva.

I was looking at the Nakovalny as a one size fits all unit to march forward at the right time and blow to snot whatever tasrget is designated to die. its also on discount, as with the Molot, the Sierp and Zviezda are full price. I have to take this into account.

So far I envision a single Molot is there for the loudspeakers - you only need one comrade shouting to stop enemy disruption yes? it also looks like a nice lurking counterattack unit.

Wolfen wrote:
I personally would go for more Krasny (Grenades Launchers and Rocket Launchers) and RPG Soldaty for RPG.-... Dragonovs I will get 3-5 complete units in ratio 2:3 of Snipers /AT Gauss gun

RPG Soldat, sound stupid when most of them are not armed with RPG's. Besides looking at the krasny I get all I need right there and they can take the same rockets too. Besides trading 2 accuracy and my reroll for an extra shot on the basic weapon doesnt look like a deal. Even at point blank range those clowns will miss.

Also while on this why would I ever want Spetsnaz? dragonovs on the other hand sound tasty. So you reckon I max out on snipers and atgauss yes. ok, how many medics and Ew specialists should I include?

Ok step by step....

Nakovalny are "ok" (IMHO) against infantry, Sierps TOO, but ALSO ground those that do not kill (meaning if you dont kill type 3 inf, they will be grounded and cannot do anything next activation - except UNA-) and are indirect fire -- so usually only one of your unit need LOS compared to Nakovalny which is direct fire and usually enemies AFV can target them far easier

Striders unit MUST be only one type, so no combining

Molot´s Loudspeakers will only work against other RedBlok players (UNTIL NOW), if that so, I would be worried about other things than interference and disruption. Molots is FANTASTIC against infantry, do not expect to actually kill AFV with one or 2 flamers... in units they "may" kill ONE FIRE toad or Trike if shotting with the 4 or 6 flamers of 2 or 3 molots...

Zviedas I would only ever use it againts The karman hero that make untis stealth OR heavy grim golems Therians armies.. otherwise I would stick with SIERPS -- besides Sierps advantage of interference is far deadlier vs therians armies destroying the much needed LP

RPG Vs. Krasny.... its all about how you play - AP vs. AP are close match... KRasny I mainly use them in Front line plattons as they have the mechanics... In the end it allways come to your preference... I prefer RPG as I "feel" that since you have to get close to bring the rocket launcher to kill something the 2 shoots are better thatthe 1 + re roll --- thats my opinion.

In the Spetsnats I agree i would go with Dragonov any day... Specialists?...well again is preference.... against therians I try max EWS or 1/1 other armies I would go 2 medics

Orlanth wrote:

Wolfen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:*Side Red Blok question:

Are the Molotv and Hussar their only anti AFV units?

Molot is Anti infantry and maybe Anti type 1 AFV (not so effective as it can only hurt once)

Hussar-Hetman-Kossak- dotch Yaga all are Anti AFV and Infantry alike

all Rocket Lanuchers (RPG and Dragomirov Kollossus, Kransy and RPG soldat)
AT Gauss Gun from the Dragonov Komandos

Can Molots pay themselves back in the 'one shot' you get, also while lurking does Loudspeaker pay for itself in your opinion?

RPGs in the basic infantry really jack up the price and are only accuracy 1, any reason not to take grenade launchers instead and rely on something else - read Kolossi - for the AT firepower.

With the downloadable rules being incomplete I am still trying to work out how flamers are used. what does the [25] mean. I am currently guessing they are very short range but never miss.

NO i do not believe 1 single molot can destroy any AFV in 1 or 2 shoots... unless it is too damaged before which i wouldnt bother to destroy unless absolutely necesary and its only type 1 AFV

Well Inf is necessary as Kollosi can be grounded easily... thats the main disadvantage... if the enemy has indirect fire expect them to be VERY grounded... even if it doesnt hurt them they wil be useless

You nee to target each flamer separately to a single mini WITHIN the maximum range of 25cm...

I wasnt considering Molots vs AFV's but a mobile reserve against infantry. In other words if an 'average' enemy infantry unit reaches an objective and I send up one Molot do deal with it which dies first?

Let me see if I get this right: A flamer must target a mini with the far part of its base within 25cm, it autohits with the full blast radius for the weapon even if the nearby enemies are outside the 25cm range.

Let me see if I get this right: A flamer must target a mini with the far part of its base within 25cm, it autohits with the full blast radius for the weapon even if the nearby enemies are outside the 25cm range.

Yes, 25cm is the max. for placing the center of the template.

BTW. it is a quite common tactic for RB to have Units with mechanics advance behind type ** AFV. Quick repair and they are protected until you reach your target.

Question for Red Block List :




3x3 AT-43 Red Blok Strielitz Kolossus Units
1x1 AT-43 Red Blok RPG Kolossus Unit

+ the army box:
• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
• 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer
• Odin O-1 and Manon O-2: the Red Blok’s two greatest heroes
• 1 Urod: Odin O-1’s and Manon O-2’s combat strider
• 1 Dotch Yaga: the most heavily armored combat strider to ever grace the battlefield


Am i missing lots of anti armor units atm?
Also , are the Soldaty and Kommandos already filled with attachments? ( not sure if the grenade launcher the infantry have are like warhammer ones o_o)

* Side question , do the unit all need to be in 3's ? i sort of converted a kolossus into Ork , so the unit is 2 now ><

* Regarding the faction's play style , can you tell me if i got this right?

UNA = long range , not accurage or hard hitting or tough. But can mark targets and snipe at safe distance (Tau?)
Red Blok = Short range assault weapons , tough AFV ( Eldars? )
Karman = Strong in both range and assault but few in numbers ( Space Marines? )
Therian = Good at sneaking and confusing enemies ... ( Protoss? )

LunaHound wrote:Question for Red Block List :




3x3 AT-43 Red Blok Strielitz Kolossus Units
1x1 AT-43 Red Blok RPG Kolossus Unit

+ the army box:
• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
• 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer
• Odin O-1 and Manon O-2: the Red Blok’s two greatest heroes
• 1 Urod: Odin O-1’s and Manon O-2’s combat strider
• 1 Dotch Yaga: the most heavily armored combat strider to ever grace the battlefield

I am looking at something broadly similar to bolster the Army Box.

1x3 Strielitz Kolossus
1x3 RPG Kolossus
1x3 Dragomirov Kolossus plus Lt Dragomira.
1x Sierp
1x extra Urod

From my research over the last few days a broad mix of Kollossi helps as they all have roles. Whaty you are doing above looks problematical. Your Krasny are purely short range anti infantry, Strielitz Kollossus are the same. This leaves you short elsewhere. The Dotch Yaga appears to be a medium range unit, though brutal and only the Urod/ Hetman has any real reach. This is why I think the Dragomirov and RPG Kollossi really help. Looking at what everyone else can take Red Blok cannot really compete at long range, only the Hetman has any real reach with accuracy 6, and then only on one gun. This is clearly a gimic level of firepower and should be better considered a medium range gun/strider which is very likely to hit at the ranges Red Blok prefer to fight at.
I am looking to get two Hetman total for this versatility and because they still have rockets and cost no more than a Kossak. Also with a penetration of 18 its so likely to damage even a *** strider that it to all intents and purposes achives through brute force what a jammer achives through finesse.

All in all it looks to me that if Red Blok want to close and shoot and win they need to play to their strtengths and bring what they of what they are good at, deploying heavily armoured units most weapons will bouce off with a good supply of heavy hitting rockets backed up by rapid firing/area effect anti infantry firepower. I am also thinking this balance should err slightly on the side of heavier armour over quantity and rockets over anti infantry.

LunaHound wrote:
Am i missing lots of anti armor units atm?

Yes, it seems so to me.

LunaHound wrote:
Also , are the Soldaty and Kommandos already filled with attachments? ( not sure if the grenade launcher the infantry have are like warhammer ones o_o)

The Army box doesnt have units and optional attachments, but 'fixed' units with all upgrades preselected. A full krasny Soldaty squad of two boxsets consists of 14 miniatures and a lot of waste, you also need mutliple attachment boxsets to max out such things as heavy weapons and medics, all are normally supplied at a rate of one of each per attachment boxset. Though I am seeing some multiple special weapons for the Therian boxsets. All this measn you get fully filled out useful units both maximum and minimum sizes, but not swappable without buying extra boxsets from scratch. I am tempted to just take the three infantry units in the boxset as 'what I have got' rule out further reinforcments of light infantry and concentrate on buying Kolossi instead, after all Kollossi boxsets are $10 each, but a new Soldaty unit boxset and attachment boxset together will cost between $30 and $45 depending on what you get.

LunaHound wrote:
* Side question , do the unit all need to be in 3's ? i sort of converted a kolossus into Ork , so the unit is 2 now ><

Yes they do, but I too have been thinking about buying extra Kollossi for turning into meganobz. As you can buy two boxsets of Kollossi for the cost of a single meganob blister I would not feel too bad about allocating a few to conversions. in fact I am sorely tempted to so the same myself.

LunaHound wrote:
* Regarding the faction's play style , can you tell me if i got this right?

UNA = long range , not accurage or hard hitting or tough. But can mark targets and snipe at safe distance (Tau?)
Red Blok = Short range assault weapons , tough AFV ( Eldars? )
Karman = Strong in both range and assault but few in numbers ( Space Marines? )
Therian = Good at sneaking and confusing enemies ... ( Protoss? )

let us call this a test for me to see if I am getting it right.

UNA. Unlike warhammer range and accuracy are one. There is no mechanic to allow for long range inaccurate weaponry unless the same gun is also an accurate short ranged weapon.
I agree that UNA are not especially tough but they are hard hitting, with all the laser designators they can uise and the stabilised battlesuits UNA have a lot in common with Tau.

Red Blok. They are orks if anything. Rokkits, rokkits, rokkits, and have no shortage of "BS2". Like orks the Red Blok have glaring weaknesses, but you can also spam out units that complement your strengths close with the enemy and thrash him in a close range firefight. Where Red Blok differs from orks is that you want to get up close, but not actually in close combat.

Karmans. Agreeed on the quality, but I am thinking they play more like Thousand Sons, Dearthwatch or Grey Knights. The single most pressing point about the Karmans is that the uinfantry, while superior to some degree are overcosted and glass jawed. Offset this by adding in a bunch of skimmers and you have Wraithguard and Vyper heavy Eldar.

Therian. I have been looking at the disruptive special abilities of some Therian heroes, but by and large they look like a sideshow, a little option to keep the enermy guessing. Therians need not be sneaky but can come stright for you, they can summon units and igmnore morale, just about everyone has a nasty close combat attack and yet the army does not lack for heavy accurate ranged firepower. Theriamns have a lot in common weith Necrons, but with the close combat ability of a chaos force.

K for anti armor , you said i should field Dragomirov Kollosus ? should i add Dragomira Hero with them? ( Whats the difference between the Dragomira model?
looks the same but just more expensive and er... more white paint o_o )





You said 2x Urod is it this thing? ( how do you include 2? )


* And the RPG for the foot troops, are they not the same anti armor weapons the RPG kolosus use?

LunaHound wrote:K for anti armor , you said i should field Dragomirov Kollosus ? should i add Dragomira Hero with them? ( Whats the difference between the Dragomira model?
looks the same but just more expensive and er... more white paint o_o )

First I am learning myself, seek a second opinion on this, hopefully Idaho and others will chime in where we are getting it wrong and we will both learn.
Well yes. I suppose you can have your Lt Dragomira by buying another Dragomirov boxset instead and using two suits as Meganobz. Same price in cash.

If you check out the links given you in this thread you can get the same info I have:

AT-43 Forum
http://en-forum.at-43.com/index.php

AT-43 Army builder and general resource - very useful!!
http://rcommunity.nazgulworld.com/

Repeat link of the rules Duncan_Idaho posted above.
http://www.at-43.com/pdf_EN/AT43/AT-43_rules.pdf

Also visit the Rackham site itself and download the army card PDF fro each race. Though the data is incomplete. You get it all in the army builder program anyway.


Back to the Kollossi.... lets talk about them in more 40K terms-ish there are two anti armour options RPG Kollossi cost 425pts and fire Assault4 Accuracy2 S11 doing two wounds a hit. Dragomirov Kollossi cost 375pts have an RPG arm with assault 2 rockets as before and a gauss gun which is assault3 Accuracy 3 S7 causing one wound a hit. You dont get the full on anti tank firepower, but battlesuits can fire their guns seperately so all the RPG's can fire at one target and all the gauss at another. S7 looks good to slaughter infantry and lighter UNA battlesuits. None of the other Kolossi have anything like the same S for their guns.
Now with Lt Dragomirov you get the Gestalt special rule, I am not sure exactly what you get but you do get +2 accuracy with the squad. So now your Dragomirov are firing at ranges 4 and 5 respectively with their guns. This is now on a par with most of the UNA weapons, though the lasers still outrange you. The trouble is the new upgunned Dragomirov squad now costs 540pts for four suits.

I dont know if Lt Dragomira is a hero, he doesnt appear to have hero rules listed but I cannot take multiple squads with the Lt upgrade.

LunaHound wrote:
You said 2x Urod is it this thing? ( how do you include 2? )

You cannot have two Urod, though the At-43 forum talks of a special 'hero cloning' list that allows precisely that. I am ignoring this opportunity to cheese out, which is really just an exceuse to sell more hero models which are otherwise one per customer. In any case still buy two Urods, the reason is because Urod is just the fancy name for a particular Hetman, which is the class of vehicle. Unlike Vrachov and Timofiyeva who have stat cards for their own individual versions of regular vehicles and are sold seperately, the heroes and 'Urod' are sold together but the Hetman is not sold at all. You get the same problem with Defender Cobras for UNA, if you want a Defender Cobra you need to buy the Copperhead and Col Stark box.
You dont need to ever use Onin and Manon if you dont want to, you could just take the two hetman. remebmer as one is included in ther upcoming army Box you will only need to buy one Onin and manon/Urod set to get a second Hetman if you so wish, you could of course buy a third, and a fourth....as many as you like.

LunaHound wrote:
* And the RPG for the foot troops, are they not the same anti armor weapons the RPG kolosus use?

Yes, the Red Blok prefer a one size fits all for rockets, which fits the theme really. All are two shots at S11 except those on the ** striders which are S12 and fire three times. Accuracy varies, basic * infantry has acuracy 1, everything else except ther heavy striders has accuracy 2, kossaks et al have accuracy 3. So rockets are pretty much the same all over, its just the launcher thats different.

Thank you Orlanth! seriousely with all these names and armor varaitions i was getting beyond confused. K i'll take 1 of them , and when the 2nd one comes in the form of army box , all i have to do is take out the 2 hero char?

And the sites are very helpful!

*Wait wait, So Hetman is the type of strider it is. Urod is it's name like a pet name? And im guessing Odin and Manon are the 2 pilots?


Found this pic, very good for comparing model sizes:

Orlanth wrote:

LunaHound wrote:K for anti armor , you said i should field Dragomirov Kollosus ? should i add Dragomira Hero with them? ( Whats the difference between the Dragomira model?
looks the same but just more expensive and er... more white paint o_o )

First I am learning myself, seek a second opinion on this, hopefully Idaho and others will chime in where we are getting it wrong and we will both learn.
Well yes. I suppose you can have your Lt Dragomira by buying another Dragomirov boxset instead and using two suits as Meganobz. Same price in cash.

If you check out the links given you in this thread you can get the same info I have:

AT-43 Forum
http://en-forum.at-43.com/index.php

AT-43 Army builder and general resource - very useful!!
http://rcommunity.nazgulworld.com/

Repeat link of the rules Duncan_Idaho posted above.
http://www.at-43.com/pdf_EN/AT43/AT-43_rules.pdf

Also visit the Rackham site itself and download the army card PDF fro each race. Though the data is incomplete. You get it all in the army builder program anyway.


Back to the Kollossi.... lets talk about them in more 40K terms-ish there are two anti armour options RPG Kollossi cost 425pts and fire Assault4 Accuracy2 S11 doing two wounds a hit. Dragomirov Kollossi cost 375pts have an RPG arm with assault 2 rockets as before and a gauss gun which is assault3 Accuracy 3 S7 causing one wound a hit. You dont get the full on anti tank firepower, but battlesuits can fire their guns seperately so all the RPG's can fire at one target and all the gauss at another. S7 looks good to slaughter infantry and lighter UNA battlesuits. None of the other Kolossi have anything like the same S for their guns.
Now with Lt Dragomirov you get the Gestalt special rule, I am not sure exactly what you get but you do get +2 accuracy with the squad. So now your Dragomirov are firing at ranges 4 and 5 respectively with their guns. This is now on a par with most of the UNA weapons, though the lasers still outrange you. The trouble is the new upgunned Dragomirov squad now costs 540pts for four suits.

I dont know if Lt Dragomira is a hero, he doesnt appear to have hero rules listed but I cannot take multiple squads with the Lt upgrade.

LunaHound wrote:
You said 2x Urod is it this thing? ( how do you include 2? )

You cannot have two Urod, though the At-43 forum talks of a special 'hero cloning' list that allows precisely that. I am ignoring this opportunity to cheese out, which is really just an exceuse to sell more hero models which are otherwise one per customer. In any case still buy two Urods, the reason is because Urod is just the fancy name for a particular Hetman, which is the class of vehicle. Unlike Vrachov and Timofiyeva who have stat cards for their own individual versions of regular vehicles and are sold seperately, the heroes and 'Urod' are sold together but the Hetman is not sold at all. You get the same problem with Defender Cobras for UNA, if you want a Defender Cobra you need to buy the Copperhead and Col Stark box.
You dont need to ever use Onin and Manon if you dont want to, you could just take the two hetman. remebmer as one is included in ther upcoming army Box you will only need to buy one Onin and manon/Urod set to get a second Hetman if you so wish, you could of course buy a third, and a fourth....as many as you like.

LunaHound wrote:
* And the RPG for the foot troops, are they not the same anti armor weapons the RPG kolosus use?

Yes, the Red Blok prefer a one size fits all for rockets, which fits the theme really. All are two shots at S11 except those on the ** striders which are S12 and fire three times. Accuracy varies, basic * infantry has acuracy 1, everything else except ther heavy striders has accuracy 2, kossaks et al have accuracy 3. So rockets are pretty much the same all over, its just the launcher thats different.

Many things are not totally correct with these posts… lest start with Dragomirov Kolossus

They come in three and you can add Lt Dragomira as a HERO, this means that you have in total 4 Dragomirov Kolossus, if you use ARC platoon the you may include a 5th dragomirov, this will make a very expensive but feared unit. The difference is not significant except that you get the card with the statistics in the hero box, besides that you can play without BUT make sure your opponent knows.

Dragomira have a few advantages… first she is a hero, so all hero rules apply, second, she adds her LP to the Company commander LP so you will have 3 extra LP per turn. and finally she is more resistant in combat, meaning that to be eliminated she need to receive two damages in ONE damage test. If your friends allow it, proxy as much as you wish, but be clear on that.

I will not compare to 40k because the roles are very different. All kolossi Tac Arms are SLOW…. I will say it again…. SLOW, they move 10 cm -4 inches (20cm the first turn), and with low accuracy they need to get close, they can be shot to pieces or at least grounded. A cunning enemy, will not let them reach his lines easily…. you have to use them with a) transport or b) drop point to be really successful

RPG Kollosi  anti AFV 100%, yes the can kill a type 2 AFV in one salvo but need to get REALLY close, less than 20 cm

Spetsnatz Kolossi  2 flamers Anti Infantry 100% , get them in a objective and look the enemy struggle to kick them out (grounded units still control objectives)

Strielitz Kolossi  Fantastic Anti Inf, shoot and ground inf units with the grenade launcher meanwhile you get close to toast them.

Dragomirov  IMHO the Kollosi by excellence, 50% Anti AFV 50% anti inf, in units of 5 and with a transport a big point sink but your opponent should be rightful killed

All kollossi have roles that are very good at it, just choose what you want, however in ANY case they WILL be out-shot by all the other TAC ARMS…. UNA Steel tacArms will kill them at long distance, Bane and Assault GOLIATHS too, Karmans K-“something” can squish them far easier, the COGS will not sweat to kill them… so you have to be very careful in deployment so they can actually kill something.

Multiple HEROES

Today ONLY one platoon can take multiple heroes, that’s the GenCol Platoon of the Red Blok… the cogs are able too, but nothing is released yet.

You can actually have 2 dragomirov tac arms squads each with Dragomira and 2 urods. It is possible but only in that platoon. If you think it is an excuse to sell more models, it is because you have not seen them in action. Being a redblok player myself, I have to say that it is the favorite list today.

One or two units of KRasny or RGP soldaty with Timofiyeva (2 interference + 2 disruption) or Vrachov (2 extra medics) and two 2 points SP self repairing URODS is a FEARSOME proposal for any enemy. Of course in other lists you can use 2 hetmans… still very spooky for others

LunaHound wrote:

UNA = long range , not accurage or hard hitting or tough. But can mark targets and snipe at safe distance (Tau?)
Red Blok = Short range assault weapons , tough AFV ( Eldars? )
Karman = Strong in both range and assault but few in numbers ( Space Marines? )
Therian = Good at sneaking and confusing enemies ... ( Protoss? )

Personally I will not agree, there is no direct comparison as you can have platoon formations that vary significantly the army list, the way and tactics of play.

UNA  General: IMHO they have medium to long range with fair number of units 5-8; the accuracy/damage is pretty balanced. The AFV are not so tough but they can out-shoot most others AFV

Union  they are not subjected to moral tests and are fairly Horde style army
Mind  heavy self repairing AFV army
CentCom  Elite infantry heavy
Morning star  Medics or Mechanics for “free”

Therians  Are lower in number but very good accuracy and damage, specialist ion both long and short range, tougher than UNA in armor but less in numbers. Special routines to make them work even better, suffer when they have low LP

Cyphers Therians workforce, balanced and “simple” too use
Warriors  Close Combat designed force
Web Striders  Tac Arms heavy Army and Routine-happy army
Babel  Cannot say as I lack experience

RedBlok  The strongest Armor so far, low accuracy in type 1 inf (short range) type 2 inf have medium range, different abilities interference, disruption and so on.

Frontline  AFV heavy army that can capture objectives
Supra  ELITE infantry heavy army
ARC horde infantry of Army
Gencol  Multiple heroes

Karmans  Slight strong armor in inf but very few and small units, very delicate when taking causalities. AFV are highly mobile but also VERY delicate. High rate of fire (+3 shoots per mini) but short to medium accuracy, they need to be close and be sure they will break one enemy unit before moving to the next unit

Libra  Infantry heavy army
Nova  Balanced army that attacks also enemy drills/routines
Flux  AFV heavy army
Arceo  no experience yet

So as you can see…. any army CAN be either ork style or marine style or whatever you want without feeling all armies are the same as in any case all the little tweaks of each army are not changed but you can configure your army to have a particular way of playing.

I Like to have options and many people here seem to think the Army BOx are good, I cocur but I like to have more, so I present my total minis, so if all played I can have between 4000 to 6000 depending o platoon formations

2x Urods
2x Hussars
1x Kossak
3x Molots
4x Sierps
1x NAkovalny

1x Krasny units with grenades Lauchers
3x RPG with Rocket Laucnhers
3x Dragonov units (2 with snipers 1 with AT gauss)
6x RPG Kollossi
6x Dragomirov Kollossi
3x Spetsntaz kollossi

2x Dragomira
2x Vrachov
2x Timofiyeva
2x Odin & Manon

My usual tactics imply using sierps in one or two units of 1-2 Sierps to ground Infantry and prevent them to reach objectives
AFVs are usually focus on Anti AFV actions (1-3 type 2 aFV depending of points -- any combination suitable urod/hetman/hussars or kossaks)
Tyxpe 3 inf for droping in the middle of the enemy and kick butt
and my own onfantry controlling objectives

They come in three and you can add Lt Dragomira as a HERO, this means that you have in total 4 Dragomirov Kolossus, if you use ARC platoon the you may include a 5th dragomirov, this will make a very expensive but feared unit. The difference is not significant except that you get the card with the statistics in the hero box, besides that you can play without BUT make sure your opponent knows.

Dragomira have a few advantages… first she is a hero, so all hero rules apply, second, she adds her LP to the Company commander LP so you will have 3 extra LP per turn. and finally she is more resistant in combat, meaning that to be eliminated she need to receive two damages in ONE damage test. If your friends allow it, proxy as much as you wish, but be clear on that.

Actually the weapon that hits her has to do two damage points at once. Which means that most of the times she can be killed only by type *** AFV.

I will not compare to 40k because the roles are very different. All kolossi Tac Arms are SLOW…. I will say it again…. SLOW, they move 10 cm -4 inches (20cm the first turn), and with low accuracy they need to get close, they can be shot to pieces or at least grounded. A cunning enemy, will not let them reach his lines easily…. you have to use them with a) transport or b) drop point to be really successful.

The upcoming transports can carry one unit of up to 8 miniatures. With an fived up Dragonov unit this makes a rather fast hard hitter.

Multiple HEROES

Today ONLY one platoon can take multiple heroes, that’s the GenCol Platoon of the Red Blok… the cogs are able too, but nothing is released yet.

You can actually have 2 dragomirov tac arms squads each with Dragomira and 2 urods. It is possible but only in that platoon. If you think it is an excuse to sell more models, it is because you have not seen them in action. Being a redblok player myself, I have to say that it is the favorite list today.

One or two units of KRasny or RGP soldaty with Timofiyeva (2 interference + 2 disruption) or Vrachov (2 extra medics) and two 2 points SP self repairing URODS is a FEARSOME proposal for any enemy. Of course in other lists you can use 2 hetmans… still very spooky for others

The army that uses multiple heroes is excellent at cloning soldiers hence the name GenCol. And since the Trauma hit the Red Blok much harder than the UNA they need good soldiers wherever they can get them. And you have to live with a disadvantage for being allowed to use clones.

Cogs are different, they are twice the size of humans and very expensive. You can have multiple heros in one unit, but only the highest generation one is leading the unit. If he gets killed, the nexthighest generation cog will take over. Cog units are small and costs rival AFV costs of other races. Also Cog do no have type ** AFV.

@units
The Frostbite rules extension allows you to use min.-units, i.e. units of 2-3 specialists. Which comes in quite handy if you have left over specialists. They are not that strong, but can cause quite some havoc and push up your number of units (units mean more LP) without having to pay many AP.

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

Actually the weapon that hits her has to do two damage points at once. Which means that most of the times she can be killed only by type *** AFV.

The upcoming transports can carry one unit of up to 8 miniatures. With an fived up Dragonov unit this makes a rather fast hard hitter.

Cogs are different, they are twice the size of humans and very expensive. You can have multiple heros in one unit, but only the highest generation one is leading the unit. If he gets killed, the nexthighest generation cog will take over. Cog units are small and costs rival AFV costs of other races. Also Cog do no have type ** AFV.

@units
The Frostbite rules extension allows you to use min.-units, i.e. units of 2-3 specialists. Which comes in quite handy if you have left over specialists. They are not that strong, but can cause quite some havoc and push up your number of units (units mean more LP) without having to pay many AP.

Actually about Dragomira, a colleague of mine -Sgt Moirane- in the AT-43 german forum told me about those 2 damage per hit, last time I remember in the official AT-43 form was also a HEATED dicussion about it and IIRC it was not "1 shot for 2 damage" but "two hits in a dmage test" meaning that can be killed by 2 sniper shots in a test for example... maybe we should dig that up form the official forum...?

Yes 5 dragomirov in a transpor will mkae a VERY tough unit, however it would be arround 700-800 AP

i know about the cogs in the previws... still not released soI cannot comment more

2-3 specialists? WHERE frostbite? False, you can get 2-3 special weapons not specialists (EWS, Medics Mechanics)....

Dragomira answer about being eliminated:

http://en-forum.at-43.com/viewtopic.php?t=4725&highlight=dragomira

How important is Dragomiva and Dragomirov for me atm?

With my list can i just get 1 Urod and a few RPG kolosus instead?

LunaHound wrote:
How important is Dragomiva and Dragomirov for me atm?

With my list can i just get 1 Urod and a few RPG kolosus instead?

important? thats subjective.... remember that you create your army once you know the mission, so in X mission kollosi may not be the best, I LOVE kollossi and use it as much as possible (meaning only when the mission has drop points or the transport will be released) if you like it use them if not, try something else.

As i said when i play 3000 AP or more, i use 1-2 Dragomirov kollossi of 4 (incl Dragomira) plus 2 Urods and some other things... Overkill? cheesy? maybe, but I like it and other armies have also some combinations that are a pain, so no complains there.... my mates are very open to really tough lists, is not thatthe therians cannot use Tiamat and Babs 0, you know?

I did not really get your second question, could you please repeat it?