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Wolfen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
How important is Dragomiva and Dragomirov for me atm?

With my list can i just get 1 Urod and a few RPG kolosus instead?

important? thats subjective.... remember that you create your army once you know the mission, so in X mission kollosi may not be the best, I LOVE kollossi and use it as much as possible (meaning only when the mission has drop points or the transport will be released) if you like it use them if not, try something else.

I did not really get your second question, could you please repeat it?

kk Atm , i have like little to none anti armor.

9 of the kollosus are Strielitz Kolossus
only 3 are RPG.

If im not mistaken Dragomirov's weapon are half anti armor , half anti infantry? (unless M-Gauss are anti armor too im not sure, just reading it online )
So instead of getting bunch of halfs, should i just get pure RPG kolossus?


*Edit: Im very sorry for asking so many question ( i promise i will include the books with my order )
How ever both me and Orlanth have NOT placed our orders yet and we seem to have same interest on same items ( running out now )

I want to make sure i can come up with a proper list and place the order before they are gone ><


*Also can these guys fit in additional attachments?

• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
• 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer

LunaHound wrote:

Wolfen wrote:

LunaHound wrote:
How important is Dragomiva and Dragomirov for me atm?

With my list can i just get 1 Urod and a few RPG kolosus instead?

important? thats subjective.... remember that you create your army once you know the mission, so in X mission kollosi may not be the best, I LOVE kollossi and use it as much as possible (meaning only when the mission has drop points or the transport will be released) if you like it use them if not, try something else.

I did not really get your second question, could you please repeat it?

kk Atm , i have like little to none anti armor.

9 of the kollosus are Strielitz Kolossus
only 3 are RPG.

If im not mistaken Dragomirov's weapon are half anti armor , half anti infantry? (unless M-Gauss are anti armor too im not sure, just reading it online )
So instead of getting bunch of halfs, should i just get pure RPG kolossus?


*Edit: Im very sorry for asking so many question ( i promise i will include the books with my order )
How ever both me and Orlanth have NOT placed our orders yet and we seem to have same interest on same items ( running out now )

I want to make sure i can come up with a proper list and place the order before they are gone ><

Ok I will answer as good as i can.

For a range of 2000-3000 AP

3x Krasny/RPG full units (either RPG or Granades) --- Personally I like RPG
1 to 2 Urods
1 Hussars
2 sierps
1-3 Dragonov full units


You have the RPG kolossi... in this moment I dont really think you need more unless you want bigger games so Dragomirov are NOT necessary

with the list above you will have minimum 6 inf units and 3-5 AFV.... more than enough to fill any platoon style... more than that is up to you...

Actually about Dragomira, a colleague of mine -Sgt Moirane- in the AT-43 german forum told me about those 2 damage per hit, last time I remember in the official AT-43 form was also a HEATED dicussion about it and IIRC it was not "1 shot for 2 damage" but "two hits in a dmage test" meaning that can be killed by 2 sniper shots in a test for example... maybe we should dig that up form the official forum...?

First, I am part of the team that is responsible for the german market and translation and there are quite some strange things going on on the english forum with even officials contradicting each other, because of this I directly ask the team via telephone and go rather for the french and german version of the rules.

Following is directly from the rules:

"Players perform a damage test each time a fighter is hit by
a close combat attack, a projectile or by any other effect that
could possibly wound him."

pg 51, col 2 1st line of rules (no fluff)

and

page 67

"Each impact causes a Damage test (see p. 51).
Damage tests should be resolved separately. The losses are
removed immediately.
The management of the impacts is different for infantry units
and units of armored fighting vehicles.
Damage tests are resolved individually.
• If the target is an infantry unit, the player resolves the
damage test by rolling one die per impact. He then removes
the fighters eliminated starting with those closest to the leader
of the shooting unit. If two targets are within equal distance, the
player who resolved the shots chooses his victim."

The only "ruling" on the english forum ha been by a Mod, but offical rulings are only allowed by members of the team. Since above sections never have been changed and no official errata mentions a change I consider the original rules still valid.

Besides, we often have played Dragomira like this in over a hundred games and she gives the RB some much needed push without killing the balance. She ist hard to kill, but her team can be killed much easier and alone she is not that powerful.

i know about the cogs in the previws... still not released soI cannot comment more

Since I translate the book right now you can consider it as being directly from the source.

2-3 specialists? WHERE frostbite? False, you can get 2-3 special weapons not specialists (EWS, Medics Mechanics)....

Sorry, wrong wording, of course I wanted to write weapons specialists.

in my big order I got a attachment boxset just to get a Nucleus Gun support team. Nice big long range gun. Team of three for 175pts, sounds like a steal.

This also looks like a nice idea with sniper teams, take pairs of Dragonov or Wing trooper snipers and lurk them at the rear taking pot shots at ranges beyond which it is not worth trying to shoot back.

I could field a Golem flamer support team but three golems on their own close in wont last, yes.

Do you agree with this thinking.?

Duncan_Idaho wrote:

Actually about Dragomira, a colleague of mine -Sgt Moirane- in the AT-43 german forum told me about those 2 damage per hit, last time I remember in the official AT-43 form was also a HEATED dicussion about it and IIRC it was not "1 shot for 2 damage" but "two hits in a dmage test" meaning that can be killed by 2 sniper shots in a test for example... maybe we should dig that up form the official forum...?

First, I am part of the team that is responsible for the german market and translation and there are quite some strange things going on on the english forum with even officials contradicting each other, because of this I directly ask the team via telephone and go rather for the french and german version of the rules.

Following is directly from the rules:

"Players perform a damage test each time a fighter is hit by
a close combat attack, a projectile or by any other effect that
could possibly wound him."

pg 51, col 2 1st line of rules (no fluff)

and

page 67

"Each impact causes a Damage test (see p. 51).
Damage tests should be resolved separately. The losses are
removed immediately.
The management of the impacts is different for infantry units
and units of armored fighting vehicles.
Damage tests are resolved individually.
• If the target is an infantry unit, the player resolves the
damage test by rolling one die per impact. He then removes
the fighters eliminated starting with those closest to the leader
of the shooting unit. If two targets are within equal distance, the
player who resolved the shots chooses his victim."

The only "ruling" on the english forum ha been by a Mod, but offical rulings are only allowed by members of the team. Since above sections never have been changed and no official errata mentions a change I consider the original rules still valid.

Besides, we often have played Dragomira like this in over a hundred games and she gives the RB some much needed push without killing the balance. She ist hard to kill, but her team can be killed much easier and alone she is not that powerful.

i know about the cogs in the previws... still not released soI cannot comment more

Since I translate the book right now you can consider it as being directly from the source.

2-3 specialists? WHERE frostbite? False, you can get 2-3 special weapons not specialists (EWS, Medics Mechanics)....

Sorry, wrong wording, of course I wanted to write weapons specialists.

I am no insider, but aAFAIK aftermath is the closest link to RE, I think i will try to get an official ruling from them in the official forum just to clarify once and for all...

The same with cogs... have not read the AB, have no idea exceptwhat it is in the previews...

Orlanth wrote:in my big order I got a attachment boxset just to get a Nucleus Gun support team. Nice big long range gun. Team of three for 175pts, sounds like a steal.

This also looks like a nice idea with sniper teams, take pairs of Dragonov or Wing trooper snipers and lurk them at the rear taking pot shots at ranges beyond which it is not worth trying to shoot back.

I could field a Golem flamer support team but three golems on their own close in wont last, yes.

Do you agree with this thinking.?

Yes it is good... thinking... however do not underestimate the flamer golems as you can buy optical cammo (stealth).... so only UNA and RB have tools to see them.... but hey! if they are shooting to 3 guys they are not shooting to something more important

I am no insider, but aAFAIK aftermath is the closest link to RE, I think i will try to get an official ruling from them in the official forum just to clarify once and for all...

There are some people closer to the source on the forum, e.g. JBLK, Terrier and some Sentinels.

But I would also appreciate an official ruling. The discussions in the other rules subforum sometimes are miles away from what officially is ruled.

The same with cogs... have not read the AB, have no idea exceptwhat it is in the previews...

There have been some excerpts from the book in the French magazin Ravage, much more than what we got over the net. If you want I can send you a scan. Of course, I am only talking about stuff that has otherwise been published.

Wolfen wrote:

Orlanth wrote:in my big order I got a attachment boxset just to get a Nucleus Gun support team. Nice big long range gun. Team of three for 175pts, sounds like a steal.

This also looks like a nice idea with sniper teams, take pairs of Dragonov or Wing trooper snipers and lurk them at the rear taking pot shots at ranges beyond which it is not worth trying to shoot back.

I could field a Golem flamer support team but three golems on their own close in wont last, yes.

Do you agree with this thinking.?

Yes it is good... thinking... however do not underestimate the flamer golems as you can buy optical cammo (stealth).... so only UNA and RB have tools to see them.... but hey! if they are shooting to 3 guys they are not shooting to something more important

A questionn on support teams, as they are * or ** infantry when do you need to take morale tests? Normally for lighter infantry to start to take morale tests at 3 models or fewer.

Also I was advised above to take fire toads in threes to avoid morale tests for being reduced to one strider, however the rules I see read that you only need test if the entire unit is imobilised.

Frostbite special units are handled like type *** infantry > Only if reduced to 1

Also I was advised above to take fire toads in threes to avoid morale tests for being reduced to one strider, however the rules I see read that you only need test if the entire unit is imobilised.

Partly true, your excerpt refers to what happens while the attacked unit in question activates.

When the attacking unit activates and kills one toad or forces a pilot to bail out a moral check is also needed..

Wait wait ,

For death dealer tac arms , are they fieldable in normal games? ( or do i need to get operation frostbite? )

can these guys fit in additional attachments? ( thus expanding into new units if attached? or are they already maxed out? )

• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
• 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer

thanks!

Easy At-43 allows you to add Death Dealers to any Tac Arm available slot, also there is no mention of Death Dealer pattern platoons anywhere other than on the download page.
besides while DeathDealers are nice tghe platoon pattern allows no other *** infantry, and no * or *** striders and no transports, it is a mierable platoon pattern, you mis out on so much being effectively restricted exclusively to Death Dealers, Defenders, and basic Troopers.

Now if you could have a single Death Dealer platoon in a different company that would be another matter as I am having troubles getting a platoon org I liike that allows a strider heavy list. I actually find the default list is best for my purposes in all the experimental lists I have drawn.

How is your order going Orlanth? I noticed something extremely agitating when i was checking the shipping...

The original shipping was $33 , with the Democle boxes it bumped the shipping to $59!!!

Basically they are charging $9 S&H per ini set.

Grrr what to do?

I was considering getting into this game and was interested in the Karmans or Therians...probably both to get someone to play me.

Anyway, what would I need to pick up to have decent starter armies for the Karmans & Therians?

Therian benefits from Initiation set.

$30 for 2 armies + rule book + scenaries.

Orlanth wrote:

Wolfen wrote:

Orlanth wrote:in my big order I got a attachment boxset just to get a Nucleus Gun support team. Nice big long range gun. Team of three for 175pts, sounds like a steal.

This also looks like a nice idea with sniper teams, take pairs of Dragonov or Wing trooper snipers and lurk them at the rear taking pot shots at ranges beyond which it is not worth trying to shoot back.

I could field a Golem flamer support team but three golems on their own close in wont last, yes.

Do you agree with this thinking.?

Yes it is good... thinking... however do not underestimate the flamer golems as you can buy optical cammo (stealth).... so only UNA and RB have tools to see them.... but hey! if they are shooting to 3 guys they are not shooting to something more important

A questionn on support teams, as they are * or ** infantry when do you need to take morale tests? Normally for lighter infantry to start to take morale tests at 3 models or fewer.

Also I was advised above to take fire toads in threes to avoid morale tests for being reduced to one strider, however the rules I see read that you only need test if the entire unit is imobilised.

support units only test moral once they reach 1 survivor (i.e.fter killing two)

LunaHound wrote:Wait wait ,

For death dealer tac arms , are they fieldable in normal games? ( or do i need to get operation frostbite? )

can these guys fit in additional attachments? ( thus expanding into new units if attached? or are they already maxed out? )

• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer
• 6 Dragonov Kommandos: elite infantry with one sniper rifle, an electronic warfare specialist, a medic and an officer

thanks!

Death dealers are used as normal, no problema!

Yes all untis of the box sets can have additional attachements(well except the 12 Krasny as they are already at maximum)

Bat Manuel wrote:I was considering getting into this game and was interested in the Karmans or Therians...probably both to get someone to play me.

Anyway, what would I need to pick up to have decent starter armies for the Karmans & Therians?

i dont play Karmans but I do play therians.... first and foremost get the Army books AND frostbite

afterwards target to 2000 AP

1-3 full units of infantry * or **
1-2 units of infantry ***
1-2 AFVs *
1-2 AFV **
1 AFV ***

this will give you a FULL range to play

@ Wolfen how do we know whats their maximum amount? and how do we now how many attachment we can fill?

I looked at the number and it says (-)

Also the unit seem to be usually 8 mini ,and attachment is 6, would that make it 2 left over?

LunaHound wrote:@ Wolfen how do we know whats their maximum amount? and how do we now how many attachment we can fill?

I looked at the number and it says (-)

No, you are mistaken in that... let me explain

ALL units have minimum and maximum sizes defined by the Army in itself (in the Army books)
Red blok units:

infantry * start at 9 (total) including 1 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> minimum size
infantry * 12 (total) including 3 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> maximum size
infantry ** start at 6 (total) including 1 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> minimum size
infantry ** 9 (total) including 3 special weapon 2 specialist (EWS or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> maximum size

Officer MAY add extra grunts to the unit.... but sargets are not so important sothey do not add... colonels add 3-4 IIRC but he cost more of course... the pic yopu show is of aSeargent that do no give any extra grunts...

A "normal" unit box, will gave you the minimum size unit with 1 special weapons, no officers and no specialists
The attachement boxes will give you more special weapons (2 types) and specialists, and 1 officer

Ooh... thats confusing ><

1)You said infantry start at 9 total ( but it seem to be sold at 8 per box? )

2)So basically every * or ** can only attach 3 out of the 6 choices in the attachment box?

3) The battle suits usually have 2 weapons ,and for the ones with same weapons it shows xxx [1] xxx [2]


But why does steel tac arms have only 1 despite 2 are mounted? Is it for balance issues so a single suit wont have too many 14 penetration weapons?
*edit hmm i see it have a re roll ... guess its like twin linked o_O

ALL units have minimum and maximum sizes defined by the Army in itself (in the Army books)
Red blok units:

infantry * start at 9 (total) including 1 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> minimum size
infantry * 12 (total) including 3 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> maximum size
infantry ** start at 6 (total) including 1 special weapon 2 specialist (Mech or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> minimum size
infantry ** 9 (total) including 3 special weapon 2 specialist (EWS or Medic) and 0-1 officer --> maximum size

Officer MAY add extra grunts to the unit.... but sargets are not so important sothey do not add... colonels add 3-4 IIRC but he cost more of course... the pic yopu show is of aSeargent that do no give any extra grunts...

A "normal" unit box, will gave you the minimum size unit with 1 special weapons, no officers and no specialists
The attachement boxes will give you more special weapons (2 types) and specialists, and 1 officer

You forgot to mention that a * does not translate into a certain troop strength. In this case you are right but with ather units or races it might be different. Only what´s written in the AB counts.

But why does steel tac arms have only 1 despite 2 are mounted? Is it for balance issues so a single suit wont have too many 14 penetration weapons?
*edit hmm i see it have a re roll ... guess its like twin linked o_O

Unfortunately Rackham was not completely sure how to represent weapons on the card in the beginning, Steels are proof to that. Normally you can use this formula: Weapons on miniature have precedence over cards (that's what most of the time applies to the miniatures) and profile in AB has precedence over miniature (there are some apes and one walker where they changed the profile after them going into production. But the profile in the AB is right).

Hmm...

k lets see if i got this right ( sorry i was confused between special weapon / specialist earlier )

* Infantry is 9min , 12 max. Have 3 slots for (2 special weapon , and 1 specialist? ) ( so basically 1 attachment have enough models to split into 2 normal units? )

**Infantry is 6 min , 9 max, Same upgrade as above?

Also what is AB? does that mean steel tac arm is actually: Laser Gun [1] Laser Gun [2] ?

Also , i dont think im reading this wrong but.... Kollosus ( an infantry ) is tougher than a fire toad strider? (the card doesnt show structure points
is that what im missing? )

LunaHound wrote:Hmm...

k lets see if i got this right ( sorry i was confused between special weapon / specialist earlier )

* Infantry is 9min , 12 max. Have 3 slots for (2 special weapon , and 1 specialist? ) ( so basically 1 attachment have enough models to split into 2 normal units? )

**Infantry is 6 min , 9 max, Same upgrade as above?

Also what is AB? does that mean steel tac arm is actually: Laser Gun [1] Laser Gun [2] ?

Also , i dont think im reading this wrong but.... Kollosus ( an infantry ) is tougher than a fire toad strider? (the card doesnt show structure points
is that what im missing? )

The example BEFORE only applies to RED BLOK--- UNA, Therians and Karmans have their own limitations in terms of unit sizes --> so please refer to the appropiates Army books

and NO there are no slots.... when you "buy" a unit you need to decide it size (minimum maximum number of fighters) then if it is minimum you can only have 1 special weapon, if it maximum you can have three (again this is only for red blok and therians --una and karmans can only have 2), you can exchange 2 normal fighters for specialiest (medics mechanics etc) without extra cost, in terms of fighter they are the same as normal grunts... finally you decide if you want an officer and pay the appriopiate AP

AB = Army book .... "Codex" for those uninitiated

REd blok AFV and Kollossi as per the fluff have the toughest type of Armor, Structure points are only based on size not the armor value.... kolossi are infantry for all purposes

Finally a brief description of stars

Infantry * --> regular troop, non elite grutnts
infantry ** --> elite grunts
infantry *** --> Tactical armors (UNA tacArms, Red Blok Kolossi kollosi, Karmans K´s and Therians Goliaths)

So EXAMPLE FOR RED BLOK only

the platoon patter chosen is as follows

infantry *(!)
Infantry */**
Infantry **/***
AFV */**
AFV **/***

the (!) means that it’s a compulsory choice

SO I start by buying a type * infantry unit for the red blok, we have two options Krasny and RPG soldat

I choose Krasny so I can buy them at minimum or maximum size.

Krasny Maximum : 9 soldiers including 1 special weapon 0-2 specialist 0-1 officer  100 AP (don’t remember exact values so don’t get angry if they are wrong)

Krasny Maximum : 12 soldiers including 3 special weapon 0-2 specialist 0-1 officer  250 AP (don’t remember exact values so don’t get angry if they are wrong)

Krasny have 2 special weapons – Grenade Launchers or RPG launchers – the “standard Krasny have the Grenade Launcher included in the profile but if you want RPG you need to pay extra AP to change ALL special weapons in a unit (i.e. +25 AP)

Then you choose officer if you want Seargent +10AP, Master Searget +15AP, Lt. +30AP Captain +45 AP and Colonel +60AP

I choose a colonel so I can add 3 or 4 more grunts (common soldiers not specialists not special weapons -- just cannon fodder) for extra X points per soldier

So in the end my first unit will be

Maximum size Krasny with 3 RPG + Colonel 2 specialist and 2 extra grunts – total cost will be 250 AP (for the normal unit) + 25 (for changing the Grenades Launcher to RPG) + 60 AP for the Colonel + 2 extra grunts (lets say 20 points per grunt)= 375 AP

Thank you so much Wolfen Duncan and Orlanth.

I have finished my order list , just waiting on the reply email on why im charged $60 S&H and if they could do something about that ( i know USA is free shipping so its abit not fair for me! )

LunaHound wrote:
How is your order going Orlanth? I noticed something extremely agitating when i was checking the shipping...

The original shipping was $33 , with the Democle boxes it bumped the shipping to $59!!!

Basically they are charging $9 S&H per ini set.

Grrr what to do?

Ok.

Option 1.

Get someone you know in the USA to take the delivery depackage and resend, shipping and billing addresses need not be identical. This is what I did.

Option 2.

Get the seller to depackage for you, Minitures Market will do this on request and charge 50c-$1 per boxset depackaged according to the email sent me.

Depackaging is really important because AT-43 is grossly overpackaged, never is this more evident than with Damocles Initiation boxsets.



This boxset comes with a liftable magnetised lid and a window to see the contents.


First layer of packaging to stiffen the near empty box.


The well spaced out contents. I wonder if they keep to 2.5cm unit coherency?


Box accessories.


All that remains of a huge box.

Yes AT-43 must look good on the shelves, but these boxes are a real bugger to ship and because they have so little in them for the size it is counterproductive. Expectation on the outside doesnt meet expectation on the inside and the result is a contrary to what a loss leader is supposed to be.

Rackham has learned this lesson by moving towards Army boxes relying more on known content than gloss.

Now I have bought three Inititation boxsets, and am budgeting to get a fourth and looking at getting even a fifth, but all nicely depackaged.

Woot orlanth , maybe you have created a path for me after your request for repackaging (since you asked recently it should be fresh in their memory )

From what im seeing, 3 democle set = 1 shipment box ( yes i kept the large Rhackam boxes lol ) so in a way it does add up to $60. ( $31 is the other stuff )

Repacking a democle set will only cost $1 each? If thats true it'll save lots.


*Magnetized lid? wow o_o they sure are very thorough for their products.

LunaHound wrote:
Ooh... thats confusing ><

1)You said infantry start at 9 total ( but it seem to be sold at 8 per box? )

You are right it is 8 NOT 9 minimum for * Red Blok and * UNA infantry. Maximum 12.
Minimum 6 maximum 9 for ** infantry.

LunaHound wrote:
2)So basically every * or ** can only attach 3 out of the 6 choices in the attachment box?

Yes, the rest is for swaps, just because you have fcilled a squad doesnt mean you want the exact same gear next time. Most units have different heavy weapons they can add in. you only gert one heavy weapon, and no swaps in the unit box, the attachment normally sells bonus weapons to fill out or swap over to another weapon type, though this depends.
Golem attachment boxsets contain enough heavy weapons to take a choice of units of three heave weapons with the full squad. human boxsets have specialists such as medics to account for and some have three weapons options and so only supply one of each etc. Karmans split the attachment boxsets into two sets each containing four apes and two weapons of one weapon type and are in a way a set upgrade.
You will need to go to the websites and look what is in the boxes you might need severaol attachment boxes to fit what you want, or one attachment box might have just the right tools to help several units, and you can always attempt to buy bits.
Please take a good look at what you are buying, attachment boxsets are shown on Raxkham warstore and Minitures market look at the compositions carefully and work out for yourself what you need. Use the Easy AT-43 program for this.

LunaHound wrote:Woot orlanth , maybe you have created a path for me after your request for repackaging (since you asked recently it should be fresh in their memory )

I found out during an enquiry after I placed my order. Miniatures market does this on request for international orders and it is a fairly common request that they have a policy for handling it. As for the nice guy image Neal at Warstore has possibly he will also do same, but no guarantees.

K so in the army box of:
• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer ( 2 more heavy weapon can be added here? )

LunaHound wrote:
K so in the army box of:
• 1 unit of 12 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing three grenade launchers, two medics and an officer
• 1 unit of 8 Krasnye Soldaty: regular infantry containing one grenade launcher, two mechanics and an officer ( 2 more heavy weapon can be added here? )

in the first option you can exchange the 3 grenades launcher with RPG launchers
In the second one you can add 2 more Granade launchers AND 2 more grunts...

You can exchange 1 mechanic and 1 medic in a single units