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Only start reading the BL books after I came here in the U.S., so far read Sons of Dorn, near the end of A Thousand Sons, and with Mechanicum coming up. I have to say it's really hard to generalize in a category of "WH40k" novels. Every book is different and could not be evaluate together. Like A Thousand Sons, I just love it, the best Sci-fi I have read since The Firstborn, with amazing amount of fluff about A Thousand Sons road to chaos and standing on Ahriman's point of view to watch the legion and Magus the Red falling into the abyss one step after the other. Compared to this book Sons of Dorn would be colorless but it's a good book in its own right, great fluff on how a SM chapter picks their new Astartes and how the scouts fight differently from the general body of SMs. I mean after all they each gives a unique piece of this Warhammer 40k world and shows it to you; and each should be evaluate separately. So far I enjoy all the WH40k novels I read.

almost done reading Salamander...

I think that it's a pretty good book. A good mixture of lore, fluff, and some very interesting tid bits about the Salamanders.

Personally I think there needs to be more books on the countless chapters, loyal or fallen, of space marines. Or maybe even some on the orcs.

Has anyone heard of a book called heroes something something? It's got a picture of a marine in some gold power armour. I'm wondering if it's any good

Problem with Salamander is you kind of need to get Heroes of the Space Marines as well to really understand the hatred between the two sergeants.

And yeah the book is Heroes of the Space Marines.


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Ummm let's see......

Some of the book is good. Some is fluff. Salamanders story is the standout one for me.

i really loved fifteen hours it gave the guard a bit more human feel to them and unlike almost every other BL book it doesnt have the heroes blasting and hacking their way through every possible enemy out there.

finished reading the BA omnibus, it's not bad. I'm just wondering what a few of you think about the BA series.

Let me use this thread to plug ANYTHING by Henry Zou. Read "Emperor's Mercy" and then immediately follow that with "Flesh and Iron." You will not be disappointed.

cadbren wrote:

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

I thought Mechanicum was good, Tales of Heresy is a collection of short stories including a couple with the Emperor in them.
I enjoyed reading Fallen Angels though it seemed inconsistent with the previous one, different authors of course.
Thousand Sons is good though the Council of Nikaea part seemed rushed and overly simplified given who was in attendance.

Ben Counter is a reasonable author, he wrote Galaxy in Flames too of course, but Battle for the Abyss fails for two major reasons.
The first is that it is a vanilla book about marines fighting bad guys and has very little to add to the background story of the Horus Heresy which is the main reason people want to read the book.
The second is that having set the Word Bearers up as specialists in ship fighting, he then has his ragtag team of heroes defeat them at every turn like some kids cartoon.
A pity he's not alone in such things.
I liked however his Grey Knights series, not such a fan of the Soul Drinkers series with Squiddly Diddly at the helm.

I'd have to re-read the Blood Ravens stories by Goto to pass any real judgement on him but I feel he's become more an icon of derision rather than genuinely being the bad author that some make him out to be. A bit like some make out GW to be the spawn of satan until something new comes out and then curse their lack of money.

Apologies for the slight necro ... Cadbren: thanks for the response. I'd forgotten Ben Counter also wrote Galaxy in Flames (which I enjoyed) - maybe Battle for the Abyss was just an off-book for him. I've now finished it and it didn't get any better. The sole redeeming feature, imo, was Skraal - the guy's a legend!

olympia wrote:Let me use this thread to plug ANYTHING by Henry Zou. Read "Emperor's Mercy" and then immediately follow that with "Flesh and Iron." You will not be disappointed.

I was a little disappointed :(

I didn't realise BL books got bashed so much.
I own every BL book produced (40k & warhammer) I only read them for a bit of escapism. I know they are silly sometimes but I still enjoy them and don't tend to read much else now. I just read the new ig novel flesh and iron which I thought was excellent. I liked 13th legion from years ago. I think the hh have gone downhill after an excellent start but are still decent. Favorite series are ciaphas Cain and haunts ghost

What did anyone think of the Grey Knights Omnibus? Worth it?

olympia wrote:I can recommend Henry Zou, Emperor's Mercy, unreservedly. Most of the HH material is crap.

Almost all the Inquisition books are amazingly good. About 60% of the HH books are great reads(Being a Dark Angels player, I liked the DA books ). Alot of the IQ books are decent.

Storm of Iron is a good stand alone book. One of the few Chaos books I like.


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Also, all this Fan fiction/High Horse talk, while true, is un-called for. This is a 40k sub forum to a Forum dedicated to Table top gaming... I mean, really what did you guys expect?



Also, Ya'll should read a nice little book called Metamorphosis of Prime-Intellect. Might not be able to find it IRL, but there is a website dedicated to keeping it up on line.

DA's Forever wrote:What did anyone think of the Grey Knights Omnibus? Worth it?

It's a fun one. Hammer of Daemons is the best, but the others are pretty good as well.

Sweet, gonna get it this weekend

I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

The codexs contribute a good chunk of the lore and fluff

Finished reading Dawn Of War.
Actually quite enjoyed it. The other two books you can leave, as that's when Goto takes over and the flights of fancy come in.

Corennus wrote:Finished reading Dawn Of War.
Actually quite enjoyed it. The other two books you can leave, as that's when Goto takes over and the flights of fancy come in.

I never actually read the second and third (mostly because I got bored halfway through 2) but I did find one thing that was interesting - the second book actually did kind of subtly point out one of the major flaws in the Dawn of War games. During a battle with cloaked Eldar (rangers?) the Space Marines manage to take some down by essentially firing their bolters randomly, since they can't actually see their opponents. In the first DoW games, you can't actually shoot cloaked units without using a Detector to spot them first.

Anyways, done being off-topic.

I just want to point out (again, I know) that the Space Wolves omnibus is a fantastic read. Finally finished Ragnar's Claw, and it was really interesting. It seems silly describing it, but there was one scene during the book that Ragnar and his Claw got into a buggy race against a bunch of Orks. Silly? Perhaps, but still, one of the only novels I've seen that actually shows more insight into an alien race, even if it is just the Orks (Who we expect to act that way anyway).

Augh, Orks a la William King drive me crazy. They are cartoony in their sillyness and are not scary or even threatening at all. The buggy race was a pretty neat sequence, but the mooning and peeing and dumbness detract from any good writing that may be seen.

The Eisenhorn trilogy was amazing.
Ravenor wasn't as interesting, but still good.

The Gaunt's Ghosts series has had its moments and is worth reading, but I feel like it's running out of steam.

HH is hit or miss.

I just want to point out (again, I know) that the Space Wolves omnibus is a fantastic read. Finally finished Ragnar's Claw, and it was really interesting. It seems silly describing it, but there was one scene during the book that Ragnar and his Claw got into a buggy race against a bunch of Orks. Silly? Perhaps, but still, one of the only novels I've seen that actually shows more insight into an alien race, even if it is just the Orks (Who we expect to act that way anyway).

I agree with Locclo, the space wolves omnibus was a fantastic read, too bad for me I still have to find two more Space wolves books to tie up a few ends. It was nice seeing the lives of the space marines through those of a raw recruit. It made them seem a bit more human, but with the amazing abilities of space marines

*oh and sorry about the quote mess up, I'm still trying to figure out how it works*

All I got to say and I know others probably have Dan Abnet and Gaunt's Ghosts.

The best books ever are Gaunt's Ghosts: the others aren't even close. Do yourself a favor and start reading them from the beggining at "First and Only".
Also Brothers of the Snake is awesome too.


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blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:I've read up on somethings on lexicanum.com, mostly by just clicking the random page button, but i have a few questions. Is a lot of the lore around 40k based in these BL novels? Or are there some in the codexs?

I'm wondering because I'm thinking of starting up playing the game an just curious to see if the codexes have anything in them.

No I would say the BL books are based on the lore in the Instruction Manuals and Codexes. Especially HH cuz they need to follow he overall storyline.

storm of iron is best bl book i have read

btw that was one epic horse @ page 3

Shatter.proof wrote:All I got to say and I know others probably have Dan Abnet and Gaunt's Ghosts.

Agreed.

I recently saw another BL novel called "Legends of the Space Marines". I'm wondering if this is a new book or has it been out for a while, and if it's any good.

The problem is some authors take some serious liberties on how troops act in their book, like for instance in the book hammer to daemons any one at all who fights chaos is killed by the grey knights.. hell SEEING chaos means you need to be cleansed and that means they light you on fire..

Now I don't think that makes much sense since there are many IG chapters and warmasters that fight chaos almost constantly so why would they torch every person who's ever seen them?

Personally I feel people who do their own series with their own unique guys do it well at least from what I've read which would be the Gaunt's Ghost (which is up to what.. 12 books?) and the Soul Drinker's books. I've heard the space wolves books are alright but if you want the creme de la creme I'd say Gaunt's Ghosts is great. I'd also recommend the Malice Darkblade series from fantasy, I feel that is also a very strong series.

Shatter.proof wrote:The problem is some authors take some serious liberties on how troops act in their book, like for instance in the book hammer to daemons any one at all who fights chaos is killed by the grey knights.. hell SEEING chaos means you need to be cleansed and that means they light you on fire..

Now I don't think that makes much sense since there are many IG chapters and warmasters that fight chaos almost constantly so why would they torch every person who's ever seen them?

Personally I feel people who do their own series with their own unique guys do it well at least from what I've read which would be the Gaunt's Ghost (which is up to what.. 12 books?) and the Soul Drinker's books. I've heard the space wolves books are alright but if you want the creme de la creme I'd say Gaunt's Ghosts is great. I'd also recommend the Malice Darkblade series from fantasy, I feel that is also a very strong series.

Well then it sounds lilke Hammer to Daemons finally represents the inquistion right then. It is standard policey to kill anyone that's seen a daemon but that doesn't mean its always carried out properly, especially by non Ordo Maleas (sp?). I find most inquisition books don't have Inquisitors living up to their hardcore reputation.

The first one I read The inquisition war was awful but the ultramarines series I love. I even started a Tau army because of the description in courage and honour.

Da Boss wrote:

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

*snipped for brevity*

Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

Seriously +1.

The books are what got me into WH:40K at all. Most of what has been posted here made me want to tear my hair out. It is painfully apparent that some people either take this WAY too seriously or that you can't picture WH:40K without dice. In both scenarios, it is sad.

@Slarg- Dude. It isn't just some random, wondering Chaplain. It is Erebus, the very same Chaplain who started to dance with Chaos way back in the day with that other prominent Word Bearer (he had some weird name with an apostrophe in it). This Erebus whispered into Lorgar's ear and is one of the reasons why the Word Bearers said "screw this guy, we're going to the eye of terror" (well, that and the Book of Lorgar...but the BoL was written after Erebus had corrupted Lorgar). Lorgar had sent Erebus over to Horus as a personal envoy. As of right now, I am not too sure how the relationship was between Lorgar and Horus but evidently, it was enough so that when Erebus got there Horus was like "Yeah dudes, Mournival....uhm gtfo". I agree that there is a hole there, but not with why Horus listened to Erebus rather than his beloved Mournival. I think the hole is when Erebus told the Mournival of the ultra secret, no catch, cure all and half of them bought and the other half was like "Wtf no".


I have read both of Henry Zhous books (not too sure if he has more than two, but I do not think so)
I've read all the Soul Drinkers books and LOVE them.
I read "The Saint" GG omnibus, the Ciaphas Cain Omnibus, The Space Wolves first omnibus (I have the second, just waiting to read it), all the HH books out (and I love all of them for different reasons), and a good amount of others I cannot remember because I am at work. Oh yeah, I'm finishing up The Inquisition War and it has to be one of my least favorite books. Confusing, mindless, wtf.

Edit:

I agree with Firesolved, the books are what brought me into this. Many people are too into the game and overlook the attempts of some authors to entertain those who are not particularily versed in WH40k.