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http://www.amazon.com/Do-Androids-Dream-Electric-Sheep/dp/B000EWDJ3O/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269896966&sr=8-2-catcorr
The books is real.

Things are worse than I thought...

Well people tend to read 40k books for the "Things blow up".

What about Joe Haldeman's Peace and War. That come under the "Things blow up" category?

I liked the iron snakes book alot, and the short story with the custodes in it was cool

Peepshow wrote:Well people tend to read 40k books for the "Things blow up".

What about Joe Haldeman's Peace and War. That come under the "Things blow up" category?

from a book review
"it deals with themes like the inhumanity of both war and its attendant bureaucracy, as well as with the results of time dilation space travel which may cause a soldier to return to his home only after centuries have gone by"

apparently Peace and War includes more than the exploding, also won a hugo award, like the Man in the High Castle, which is apparently a stupid title

All I'm saying is that the Warhammer books are incredibly one dimensional, just like romance novels. One's all about killing and blowing up, and the other is all about romance and sex. Both are simplistic and there is a lot more that you can get out of a good book. Anyone who reads anything else knows that they are very basic works of fiction.

Just trying to broaden your horizons guys, there is really good science fiction out there...

Maybe, you should try reading the famous works of science fiction's greatest authors. I tried reading the black library..,




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And Herbert and Heinlein don't forget them!!

Being a young'un and all, personally I don't think I can withstand these big sci-fi books. I like the familiar and it's kind of hard to dive into the unknown that is Asimov and others

If its difficult to read then you are doing yourself a favor. Your brain gets stronger the harder it has to work. Just like muscles. I'm being very serious.

Plus it is much more rewarding to understand a complex story that to just read something obvious, at least for me.

Don't let it scare you away. Asimov and Dick both have good short story collections you could start with. Especially Asimov's Robot Dreams.

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


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I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

I enjoyed 15 Hours and the one with the Night Lord fighting that Psycher on that hiveworld which name escapes me.

the Horus Heresy books are fun to read but utter crap. You mean to tell me that

Of the HH series, Flight of the Eisenstein has to be my favorite.

Slarg232 wrote:

the Horus Heresy books are fun to read but utter crap. You mean to tell me that

Spoiler:

Horus is going to beleive that the Emperor hates him when some random chaplain tells him that over his own brother?

Of the HH series, Flight of the Eisenstein has to be my favorite.

On the subject of other sci-fi, who's to say that we don't all read stuff by the greats? This is a thread about BL, so the discussion has stuck there.

@Grotzooka-Someone refused to ever read the suggested books in another post.

@DaBoss--Ad Hominem is a great way to argue
The thread title is "Do you enjoy WH40k novels?"
My answer is that I think they are terrible compared to some of the science fiction out there.

Jules Verne was a pioneer in the genre, these guys are just writing stories set in a world they already know. Not the same thing...

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


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I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

I've read some of them and I still prefer reading 40k novels. When I come home from work or w/e I don't want to have to use my brain for reading.

You forgot Huxley btw.

Oh and what's wrong with romance novels? I don't read them but I'm not gonna belittle people for it.

Please get off your high horse.

OMG romance novels are the best!!!
They're so sensual, sexual, and really capture the real life experience of love!

aw who am i kidding, i've never read a romance novel.

I read to release not absorb

I liked Flight of the Eisenstein.
Fulgrim was a little weird
Legion wasn't too bad but it felt a bit like Abnett had decided to see how far he can stretch the fiction with the protagonist's IG regiment.

Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

@ Pretentious SF snobs: Read something NEW! Yes Clarke and Asimov pioneered things but even Asimov was aware his stuff would get dated, he wrote that he would like his reader's not to dwell on old works simply because they're old. He was a fan of the Lensmen series but he admitted that it seemed dated to him in 70s, to paraphrase "Science marches on, but science-fiction must run further ahead... to light the path of inspiration".

Yeah...I agree with many that the HH books sucked, I quit reading them, even though I wanted to know the end. What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts. That is the same thing that bothered me about Emperors Mercy.
Someone mention the Cain books, and those are my favorites. Also I do like the Grey Knight books...Hammer of Daemons was weird but hopefully the next one (if there is one) will be better.

I've only read the dark apostle/dark disciple books about the word bearers, but I think they've been pretty good so far. They've brought the world of 40k a bit more to life for me and that's all I was really looking for. I didn't expect them to expand my mind or be a pioneer in the world of fiction.

Geemoney wrote: What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts.

How could this possibly be the truth when the horus heresy happened? If there was no doubt in any of them they wouldve strode along behind the emperor forever. Chaos found the chinks in their human armor and exploited it. They may be smaller than the average person, but they still have doubts and human emotions like pride and envy.

I agree Halsfield, the HH pretty much tells you that in the end their all still human.

I just finish Descent of Angels, and I quite enjoyed it. Not too taxing on the brain...

<--ducks

cmac wrote:I just finish Descent of Angels, and I quite enjoyed it. Not too taxing on the brain...

<--ducks

Hey, I didn't mind the book either, on the other hand, I'm finding Fallen Angels hard to page through...

"hides behind cmac"

I personally enjoyed Descent of Angels more than Fallen Angels.

Then again I just re-read Angels of Darkness and everything makes a bit more sense in that book now.

@rdlb
I enjoy the BL books for what they are, pulp sci-fi. No its not Hugo-winning science fiction, but that doesn't mean its TRASH. Are you trying to tell me that anything that's not Asimov, Clarke, etc. isn't worth reading? Come on man. Its like movies, I enjoy the deep and moving ones AS MUCH as the ones about zombie aliens or w/e.

I love the stuff by William Gibson, Frederick Pohl, and Walter Miller. AND many many BL books as well (except CS Goto, because he is flat out a bad author).

Actually.. I think Goto has trancended being a "bad writer" and is so god awefull that he must be awesome.

I think that most of the 40k books are fascinating to read, although some are slow reads. For me it is less about enjoying them and more about learning more about the 40k universe in a more detailed way. I've read the Grey Knights omnibus, the Ultramarines Omnibus, books one through eleven of the Horus Heresy series, and now I'm working on Scourge the Heretic.

I liked the initial trilogy of the Horus Hersy series when it came to quality... even though I didn't care for how the interex were brushed aside without any further role. Eisenstein was ok, Fulgrim was a bit much, Descent of Angels was alright, Legion was tough to read for a while... but the ideas in it made the book worth reading, Battle for the Abyss I'll give credit to for having thousand sons in a prominant role, Mechanicum was bizzare but alright, Tales of Heresy had some good stories some slow stories, and Fallen Angels was pretty painful. I hope to read more of them eventually, especially the ones dealing with the Thousand Sons.

[quote=Grotzooka

On the subject of other sci-fi, who's to say that we don't all read stuff by the greats? This is a thread about BL, so the discussion has stuck there.

Slarg232 wrote:

still, maybe its just me but ...

Did you skip the part where he was heavily influenced by the chaos powers that were wielded through a very close friend/advisor of his? He was also extremely prideful already and just waiting for someone to tell him what his innermost ego was telling him(that he was better/wiser than the emperor and needed to wrest control away from the emp to himself for the betterment of mankind). The chaos influence simply sealed the deal.

Halsfield wrote:I've only read the dark apostle/dark disciple books about the word bearers, but I think they've been pretty good so far. They've brought the world of 40k a bit more to life for me and that's all I was really looking for. I didn't expect them to expand my mind or be a pioneer in the world of fiction.

Geemoney wrote: What killed me was the humanized the SM too much, they are supposed to be super humans with no doubts.

How could this possibly be the truth when the horus heresy happened? If there was no doubt in any of them they wouldve strode along behind the emperor forever. Chaos found the chinks in their human armor and exploited it. They may be smaller than the average person, but they still have doubts and human emotions like pride and envy.

Clearly they have emotions ie pride and envy. But they turned the Space Marines into a bunch of women, saying things like...lets get in a group and talk about our feelings, or I don't know what to do, I'm so confused. I just figured Space Marines would either say F*** you Emporor I'm going to kill you or F**** you evil SM I'm going to kill you.
Lets have a WAAAR!!
It could be just the writing style; but it bothered me.

rdlb wrote:

Rube wrote:I can count the number of Black Library books I enjoyed on one hand, 'cause it's zero. I've not read a single one that wouldn't have been out of place on fanfiction.net.

I support this message. It's just fan fiction dressed up with a glossy cover. Why don't you guys read some Asimov, Clarke, Bradbury, or Cormac McCarthy's The Road? There is so much excellent science fiction that is deeper than IT BLEW UP, and much better written. How about the Dark Tower!?!?! Let not even mention all the good books that aren't science fiction and completely excellent.

Arrgghhhh, these books are like romance novels for geeks. Trash...


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I forgot Phillip K Dick!!!!

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?!?!?!?
Solar Lottery !?!?!
Man in the High Castle??!!?

Please some one post and tell me you at least read these authors as well...

Who says that in order to enjoy those novels you have to hate BL books? I think you're too high up on a high horse and need to step off it. Come back down to the world of people who can enjoy what ever they want.

Although I tend to read far more general fiction than BL novels, I agree with BrotherStynier.

I find now that the Black Library novels mostly take up all of what I want to read at mo.

Used to read the Star Wars novels. recently tried to pick one up and just couldn't. too childish.

What does that say about me??????/

Warhammer 40000 novels are fine but star wars is too childish........weird

Eyclonus wrote: Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

Have to agree that Abnett is by far the best BL author i've had the pleasure of reading. His Eisenhorn series got me into BL novels in earnest and eventually into the hobby itself. (I was a long time BL reader before ever picking up a mini). Does he do other fiction? apart from BL?

In terms of HH i've not read past the original trilogy but i found that pretty enjoyable , if only for the nice background fluff you can pick out from it.