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The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I agree completely. I'm a hugh Abnett fan but I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

Currently into the 3rd Cain book, and generally enjoying it.

But does he really have to go:

(Cain doesn't feel like doing A, luckily a chance to do B comes along)
"But if I'd known what horrors awaited me at B, I'd totally do A"

every

other

page.

It's really starting to annoy me.

Another book I read before was the Iron snakes. That was a pretty good book, but I'm puzzled as to who there primarch is.

Every single time I re-read one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, I want to start an IG army.

orchewer wrote:Every single time I re-read one of the Gaunt's Ghosts books, I want to start an IG army.

Those books are one of the reasons that I finally did.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Another book I read before was the Iron snakes. That was a pretty good book, but I'm puzzled as to who there primarch is.

A lot of Legions don't even know their Primarch because they're created by the inquisition. However the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. So the Iron Snakes Primarch is most likely Guilliman.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

Grotzooka wrote:

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

The fists can't spit acid or hibernate? Where does it say that?

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:

Grotzooka wrote:

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

The fists can't spit acid or hibernate? Where does it say that?

Lexicanum wrote:The Imperial Fists' geneseed has been somewhat corrupted over the millennia, so two traits have emerged. One is the loss of two of the special organs produced by Space Marines: the Betcher's Gland, which allows the Marine to produce poisonous/acidic spittle, and the Sus-an Membrane, which allows a Marine to enter a state of suspended animation.

And I've seen it somewhere else as well, but I cannot remember where.

Well that's lexicanum, it's just like wikipedia so the viability of that is slim... hrm... does any codex say something about that?

Oh and I heard of three new books from BL. Ok they're not super new, but Rynn's world, and a few others I can't remember, I'm wondering if they're any good and if I should shell out the extra cash to have them shipped, or just wait until I can't get them all in Canada.

blazinpsycho&typhooni wrote:Well that's lexicanum, it's just like wikipedia so the viability of that is slim... hrm... does any codex say something about that?
.

Yes, that was in their Index Astartes article.

This did then lead to some confusion when a/some Black templars were written as still having these implants, but this is egnerally taken to be, getting technical for a moment, a cock up.

I'd have to whip out a lot of Index Astartes but basically the fastest way to do it is go to the Ultramarine one which states they are the only one without defects. However, I remember one time reading another legions Index which contradicted that one. They also stated they had a pure geneseed but I really can't remember which Legion it was.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
SWs can also not spit acid and have another defect as well. I remember because they were proud of it. Claiming only pussies spit acid.

It depends on the author. Some of them kind of miss the mark whilst others just keep me gripping the pages wanting to find out what happens next. Long time Dan Abnett fan myself. Any of his stuff I highly rate. Really like his style. Also like Ian Watson's work.

I haven't really read any. I thumbed through a couple my friend had and the style didn't really appeal to me. I think about 2/3rds of the words were adjectives, it felt very clumsy.

Fiend wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:... the Inquisition almost always uses Ultramarine Geneseed because its the only one without defects. ...

They almost always use the Ultramarine geneseed, maybe. It is the only geneseed without defects, not true. The Ultramarines had the most successors because they were the largest legion after the heresy (a dubious honor). Which geneseed is now used most commonly for starting a new chapter? I'm not sure. Where did you find this out?

I do believe there are plenty of other legions whose geneseed is just as pure as the Ultramarines. What are the defects in the Fists or Scars or Dark Angels?

I guess I took you to task so as not to diminish the quality of the other legions, although it likely (without having read the books) that the Iron Snakes are Ultramarine successors.

On topic, I enjoy almost all the 40k novels I read. I don't enjoy them for the quality of writing mind you, but I love to delve further in the lore of the universe and undercover the secrets ect. I always finish reading a story I start, but sometimes I think to myself "Feth, can this predictable action sequence just end to I can read the more mysterious side of the story."

Read Brothers of the Snake. One of BL best I'd say.

The second most used Gene Seed is surprisingly Blood Angels. Although all the organs work it has this unfortunate tendancey to make to you go INSANE WITH ANGER! However, in an uncharacteristic bout of scientific advancement the Mechanicum has found a way to correct that flaw. Nonetheless, put your self in the place of a Magos making a new SM chapter with a box full of Ultramarine Geneseed and a Box of BA DNA are you going to spend the next 5 years (or whatever) fixing the BA stuff or just whip out the good old blue stuff? Pretty sure you're going with the tried and true blue.
That being said I wouldn't be surprised to find out Iron Snakes are corrected Blood Angel stock. The BAs are pretty Greek and The Iron Snakes are pretty Spartan.

Grotzooka wrote:The Fists cannot spit acid or hibernate.

Yeah, I do seem to remember reading that although it may have been Lexicanum. That being said I tend to trust Lexicanum.

Not trying to spark controversy, I just tend to get feisty when a "Ultramarines are the best cause" comment is made. I seem to remember that the DA geneseed is pure and I've never heard anything about the Scars.

As I usually read marine novels, the Brotherhood of the Snake is the next one I was looking forward to after finishing the HH series (on the last one!, for now...)

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yeah that would fall under the "I could care less..." part. I was particularly depressed by John Grammaticus. Does anyone think that's a good name for a character besides Abnett? I understand the hidden meaning, but I can't get over it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

I feel the same way. But I'm not a huge Abnett fan. He's hit or miss, and I find he misses more often than not. But when he hits...brilliant.

Extinction Angel wrote:

Corennus wrote:The underlying way the Alpha Legion was convinced to turn to Chaos? yes ok that's good.

But the way the whole book was panned out with a secret cabal sending a dead psyker to manipulate things, and all that "I am Alpharius"..............

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Yeah that would fall under the "I could care less..." part. I was particularly depressed by John Grammaticus. Does anyone think that's a good name for a character besides Abnett? I understand the hidden meaning, but I can't get over it.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...I thought it was the weakest of the HH novels to that point and one of Abnett's worst books. Only the ending was good for giving The Alpha Legion an intriguing motivation.

I feel the same way. But I'm not a huge Abnett fan. He's hit or miss, and I find he misses more often than not. But when he hits...brilliant.

I guess I just really liked Legion. In fact, at the time, I thought it was the HH novel most likely to be considered a good novel by general audience/ non SF/WH40k readers. I need to read it again as it was, IMHO a tricky plot to follow and it was quite a while ago that I read it.

I agree that Abnett is incredible when he gets it right, but I like his stuff even when he's not hitting the A game. Graham McNeill has writing that is more consistent and pretty good, but when he's off it almost hurts.

I'm reading the Ravenor books right now, and they're really addicting. That is what Abnett is really good at; He generates that feeling of having to read the next page, chapter, or book in order to find out what happens. Ravenor plays the game where even if you're pretty sure whats going to happen ( as I was in the second book, though parts of the ending were a surprise), you want to keep reading to see if you were right. That sells books, and even if he didn't write good novels ( he does), that ability allows you to crap in a bag made of your own money, place it on the porch of a offending critic, light it on fire, and wait for said critic to stamp it out, staining the critic's foot with material partially generated by using a fiber supplement made from ground up 100$ bills. I did not care for the ending of the first one because I couldn't figure out why the bad guys needed to keep everyone alive during the final sequence, instead of killing everyone immediately instead of the first officer of the ship ( whom they needed). Maybe I need to read it again because I missed something.

Its odd reading Ravenor because you're stuck between being entertained on how the main characters are going to get out of the next sticky place, and saying to yourself " Oh, come on". It was probably tricky to write because Ravenor needs to be powerful and cool, but it has to be in a way that his powers can't do *everything*. Most of the time, Dan pulls it off. A few times though, he doesn't, and Ravenor seems like an extra killy Jesus or the bastard son of the God-Emperor. Some of the "Oh come on" moments are at least entertaining though. One of them involves the telekinetic henchwoman killing someone with her necklace....ok....but cool. Another involves the acrobat throwing a gun to the bounty hunter which allows him to kill one of the boss bad guys right before he kills a party member.....ok....but it was kind of cool. The psychic blank character getting up at the last moment after being shot in the chest twice to strangle the main evil psyker guy.....Sorry Dan, fail. Ravenor is my favorite Abnett character so far though, which is pretty good for a guy with no face or ability to put emotion in his voice.

I think all the 40k novels have to have a balance between being a good story and less talk, more kill. IMHO, William King consistently is weaker on the former, and occasionally, Dan Abnett fails on the latter. Sometimes, I just need a good disembowelment, or a scene with an exploding head. I think Graham McNeill is usually really good at that, especially in Killing Ground.

I think another think i don't like about Eisenhorn and Ravenor (although Ravenor mixes it up a bit) is that they're in 1st person. 1st person can really limit what you can do in your stories. Also there's only so many ways you can say "I".

KamikazeCanuck wrote:I think another think i don't like about Eisenhorn and Ravenor (although Ravenor mixes it up a bit) is that they're in 1st person. 1st person can really limit what you can do in your stories. Also there's only so many ways you can say "I".

Wow, I didn't think about the point of view in the novels. Most of the BL novel's I've read are in limited Omniscient or Omniscient. I think a first person view would fit best in a short story, but I haven't read many BL short stories.

I think 1st person is a fine way to tell a story, you just get different books. It's more about personal adventures and small tragedies than the big movements of intergalactic conquest. Both can be fun, both can be bad.

Cain does a pretty decent job with it (although I must agree with KamikazeCanuck that when reading 3 Cain books in a row, the repeating of the same sentences over and over can get to you)

I enjoy most Black Library books, but there are some that are a bit overrated. Like the Dawn of War books.....C.S Gotto is evil and needs to be exterminated by the Ordo Herectus!

WH40KGuy757 wrote:C.S Gotto is evil and needs to be exterminated by the Ordo Herectus!

EDIT : I lol'd at that. I had written this, but for some reason Dakka decided it should remain unwritten

C.S. Goto was unfortunate in that Dawn Of War he had strict guidelines about how it would pan out (had to tie into the game)

Give me his Dawn of War book any day over the travesty that was Dawn Of War II novelisation.

the bloody thing ended halfway through the game!

Corennus wrote:C.S. Goto was unfortunate in that Dawn Of War he had strict guidelines about how it would pan out (had to tie into the game)

Give me his Dawn of War book any day over the travesty that was Dawn Of War II novelisation.

the bloody thing ended halfway through the game!

He wrote one about the Eldar that I just couldn't get in to. Haven't read the Dawn of War novel.

Eldar Prophecy...*shudders*, that was pretty bad. That said if as many people who joke about his writing had actually read them he'd be a wealthy man and BL would only have him writing.

Anyone else read "Path of the Warrior" yet then ? Some wicked Eldar fluff in that.

I haven't read the second DOW one yet, however I wish not to...ever. If it's anything like the first Dawn of War, then forget it.

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the first DoW? Apart from Gabriel being a Psyker it's not too bad......