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I like James Swallow and Graham Mcneil. Dan Abnett was good until I read "Legion".

His Eisenhorn series i'll have to reread, and I did enjoy Ravenor..

Corennus wrote:I like James Swallow and Graham Mcneil. Dan Abnett was good until I read "Legion".

His Eisenhorn series i'll have to reread, and I did enjoy Ravenor..

Ah, "Legion". What a strange book. I enjoyed it, even in all of its madness and plot twists of doom, but I don't think I'll ever be able to read it again. Once was good for me.

Da Boss wrote:
Dude don't be a snob. People like different stuff. I enjoy lots of different types of sci fi, I don't feel the need to compare literary credentials. This is a thread about Black Library, which I think everyone admits is just sheer pulp fun. Plenty of classics are pulp fun too- any Verne that you pick up, for example. Doesn't make them bad books!
Sometimes you want to switch off your brain and enjoy some simple plotting in a universe you already know.
Personally, I find that some hard sci fi can be weak in the character, plotting and dialogue sections because the author is more interested in his scientific ideas than telling a decent story. In the BL series a lot of the time the quality just isn't very good, but there are some pretty good reads in there, too.

Agree 100%

rdlb wrote:Jules Verne was a pioneer in the genre, these guys are just writing stories set in a world they already know. Not the same thing...

Are you sure that CS Goto knows 40K universe?

BrotherStynier wrote:Who says that in order to enjoy those novels you have to hate BL books?

THAT is the point.

the most enjoyable books i have read are by Dan Abnett. he seems like the best author. Guants ghosts are amazing, and the Eisenhorn trilogy is fantastic. the reason Gaunts ghosts are amazing is because they actually survive to live another dozen novels or so. 99% of one-off IG novels are where entire groups, regiments or armies crumble to a few men. example:

i find graham mcneils Ultramarine stories reasonable, though they could be improved. as i go back to Dan Abnett. his stories are the most realistic and interesting i have ever read, and a really good use of characters.[/spoiler] but other wise, start digging up books by him. they are very good.

EDITED FOR SOLADRIN. HAPPY NOW???????

First, spoiler warnings you twit.

Secondly, this guy again "rolls eyes"

Seriously, IG IS HORDE IN 40K GET THAT THROUGH YOUR BLOODY SKULL.

Sorry for my fit, he's getting on my nerves by spreading it to another thread.

Back to the main topic.

Fallen Angels is making my eyes bleed, im contemplating to just put it back on the shelf and re-read something better, like Dawn of War.... ahem.... ok I'll just wait till i get Faith and Fire in the mail..

right. first thing. im new. there was no DAKKA DAKKA rants and raves section (which there should be) secondly. wtf is with people posting of burning. i come to this forum for help on subjects and get people posting images of burning. if you bother so much about people ranting and a stupid posts trolling or whatever, take it away and put a rave section. and im not spreading my terrible rubbish, i am just saying my opinion, not spreading it. you are seriously getting on my nerves. SHUT UP!

brickhouse wrote:

Eyclonus wrote: Generally I like Abnett, unlike the rest he has been writing professionally for a long time.
Cain is another good series, but my favourite IG books are the first 3 in Gaunt's Ghosts.

Have to agree that Abnett is by far the best BL author i've had the pleasure of reading. His Eisenhorn series got me into BL novels in earnest and eventually into the hobby itself. (I was a long time BL reader before ever picking up a mini). Does he do other fiction? apart from BL?

In terms of HH i've not read past the original trilogy but i found that pretty enjoyable , if only for the nice background fluff you can pick out from it.

Abnett use to write for 2,000 AD back in the 80s. He's done some work for Marvel and I think some DC. He wrote the Torchwood novel Border Princes which is one of the more popular novels for that part of the franchise.

Here is the Omissiah's listing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_works_by_Dan_Abnett yes he gets his own page for his bibliography.

Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

I enjoy them for immersion purposes, since I don't love any other fictional setting more than Warhammer, but I have to say, most of the novels are written pretty badly...

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Grotzooka wrote:

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Spoiler:

The Alpha Legion now believes its mission is to help Horus exterminate the human race so that Horus will fall into remorse at his actions and kill himself and his followers. With no human emotion to feed off, the Warp will collapse and evil will be gone from the galaxy. There are just 3 questions; Is this really what the Emperor wanted, WHY did Horus fail EVEN WITH THE LEGION, and why on earth are the Alpha Legion still following the advice of a group that was obviously wrong about everything?

Actually my thoughts refer to all three of your doubts. I think that Alpha legion is becoming a sort of double agent against chaos, and that Alpharius was looking for a way to preserve humanity and defeat chaos by pretending to become loyal to chaos to look for a weakness. Until then it is all secrets and lies as it says on the front of the book legion. I think it may be a brilliant desception that could perhaps end in the defeat of Chaos if it succeeds. Though this IS only a theory, it makes sense to me.

My fav is dark apostle so far.

Dialask wrote:

Grotzooka wrote:

Dialask wrote:Legion was a strange book. For the longest time I didn't understand what was happening, and couldn't get into the weird syntax and diction. It got a bit better after John Grammaticus however. I have a few theories about what the new implications are, due to the mysterious actions of the Alpha Legion at the end of the book.

Mysterious? It's spelled right out.

Spoiler:

The Alpha Legion now believes its mission is to help Horus exterminate the human race so that Horus will fall into remorse at his actions and kill himself and his followers. With no human emotion to feed off, the Warp will collapse and evil will be gone from the galaxy. There are just 3 questions; Is this really what the Emperor wanted, WHY did Horus fail EVEN WITH THE LEGION, and why on earth are the Alpha Legion still following the advice of a group that was obviously wrong about everything?

Actually my thoughts refer to all three of your doubts. I think that Alpha legion is becoming a sort of double agent against chaos, and that Alpharius was looking for a way to preserve humanity and defeat chaos by pretending to become loyal to chaos to look for a weakness. Until then it is all secrets and lies as it says on the front of the book legion. I think it may be a brilliant desception that could perhaps end in the defeat of Chaos if it succeeds. Though this IS only a theory, it makes sense to me.

Oooh! I never thought of that.

The problem is thinking "oh? Alpha legion are secretly loyalists are they? That's strange they seem to be pretty depraved by M41!!"

I think the idea is a good one, but since no-one knows if Alpharius or Omegon is in charge of the legion I have my own idea.

Alpharius was set on trying to stay loyal, but once he get killed by Guilliman Ogemon, overcome by grief and rage, turned away from his twin's ideal and set the legion firmly on the way to Chaos.

I really like them. I've red "Storm of Iron" and "Hellforged" and I've really enjoyed them. They are a good way of going deeper in the W40k background. I recommnend read them, even for a person who doesn't know anything about W40k. ^^

Grambo wrote:My fav is dark apostle so far.

Loved dark apostle. The snippet of dark creed I read on the black library site was great as well.

Dark disciple wasn't quite as entertaining because it lacked enormous scenes of battle and the dark eldar/imperial side of the book was quite weak(not weak because they lost, that was expected, but weak because it wasn't very well fleshed out). It was still a great read but I'm looking forward to dark creed once I have the time to read it.

I'd love to see a series of books from reynolds on some of the other chaos legions or some unknown renegades (ie purge, my personal favorite).

Corennus wrote:I find now that the Black Library novels mostly take up all of what I want to read at mo.

Used to read the Star Wars novels. recently tried to pick one up and just couldn't. too childish.

What does that say about me??????/

Warhammer 40000 novels are fine but star wars is too childish........weird

I have the same. SW went down the drain a long time ago.

yep

I rate the Gaunts Ghosts series very highly, on the 3rd omnibus now. Even a friend who isn't interested in 40K is now a fan and borrows after I'm done.

Something I'd like to know is why 'Descent of Angels' is such a bad book? I understand that some of the HH novels are poor but this one seems to get special attention.

Haven't read it myself, just interested...

I've read the Ultramarines trilogy and then the other one too. In the trilogy some things are over the top, like the UM's with other marines getting into a fortress which is currently under siege by a legion!

Planetkill novel was ok. But most the stories were gak.

Heroes of Space Marines is interesting.

Sons of Dorn isn't too bad. It's a bit OTT at the end though.

Storm of Iron is pretty decent read though.

Don Cooperino wrote:I rate the Gaunts Ghosts series very highly, on the 3rd omnibus now. Even a friend who isn't interested in 40K is now a fan and borrows after I'm done.

Something I'd like to know is why 'Descent of Angels' is such a bad book? I understand that some of the HH novels are poor but this one seems to get special attention.

Haven't read it myself, just interested...

Well, it wasn't as bad as Fallen Angels. Descent of Angels began by wandering completely away from 40k, going to a world where they only have remnants of technology. Later it goes to being more 40k ish, and it gets into a drably predictable situation. The book was disgustingly predictable, moreso than most 40k books. To me it wasn't all that great, but it was the first time in HH (I think) we actually get to see the emporer. There are reasons to read it, but if you are only going to read one HH book, don't pick that one unless you really like the Dark Angels.

Thanks Dialask, doesn't sound too great, although like the sound of the Emporer being actually involved. I read Horus Rising and enjoyed it and plan to read the next 2 in the series, heard they're good.

I'd have to say the opening trilogy is the best. Beyond that it depends on the purpose of why you are reading the HH series. Just looking for a good book? HH series isn't what I'd recommend. Interested in learning the history of 40k, and more about how things took place? That is what the HH series is for. Not only is it history, but also I think some foreshadowing to things that happen later on. Legion, for example, I think means that Dan Abnett has plans for a book about Alpha Legion in the main series. I may be wrong, but you see things like that throughout HH.

I'd have to say I have such a weakness for the black library books, there are just so many of them that I own close to a hundred I believe.

And some of the Horus Heresy books are wonderful. Any of the Abnett ones are great. I mean he opened horus rising with "I was there the day Horus Killed the Emperor", what a way to start off the Horus Heresy books that everyone had been looking forward to so much.

Also A Thousand Sons was Fantastic! It actually got up to number 22 on the New York Times best selling fiction list. That was the first time the Black Library has put a book on the NYT bestseller list.

What it comes down to is how committed to the fluff you are, because if you love Space Marines you would know that every story has an enemy capable of killing the Marines.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also Dark Creed was excellent, the finale of that book is just adrenaline

I'm choosy about what I read so so far I've not been disappointed, I've read-

All Gaunt' Ghosts
All Ciaphus Cain
Gunheads
Desert Raiders
Cadian Blood
Relentless

and now I'm on Flesh and Iron which I'm loving because it uses three things I'm all about- IG, Riverine ops and Planet Pinoy! The planet is basically the Philippines and they're fighting Moros, which is similar to the background of my Guard regiment.

Just finished reading Soul Hunter, it is the first Chaosy book I've read not counting some of the HH stuff and I really enjoyed it.

@people earlier in the thread getting very stuck up about books:

I have read War and Peace, most Shakespear, Dante's Inferno etc at Uni and I understand them when I read 40K novels it is not to experience some of the great cultural works of man it is because I can understand and keep up with the plot while my wife and kids talk to me/pull my hair etc. Some of the writing is chronically bad but apart from C.S Goto I can cope with that because I enjoy the subject matter. So calm down dears it's only a thread

I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

1) No idea, sorry.
2) Well, I liked Mechanicum, but then I also liked Abyss.

I'm a complete sucker for the background GW puts out especially 40k stuff. Eisenhorn was really good as are the space wolf novels. My fave though of the current generation is Execution Hour (probably because i love BFG) its pace, space battles and tension are brilliant. Lots of novels have a similar structure, lots of gore (all yay!) and a traitor (Salamander/Storm of Iron etc) in the midst, but most have some really good twists in. Loathed Storm of Iron, the imperium are idiots except for one or two (how do they still control the galaxy?), chaos are invincible and the traitor is obligatory.

Incidentally how do space marine chapters survive? The fists loose a whole company in about five minutes in storm of iron yet all chapters only seem to recruit one or two blokes a year.

Finally would anyone else like to see the phrase, something something even for a Marine, banned?

He was broad/tall/strong.... etc

Necroagogo wrote:I've stuck primarily with the HH series and am currently up to Battle for the Abyss(mal). Ye gods, it sucks. Even worse than the DA one. It's scripted like a bad daytime soap and Counter's fundamentally poor grasp of language, characterisation and pacing really don't help matters.

Two questions:

1) How does Counter compare to Goto (whom I have never had the pleasure of reading)?

2) Does the HH series get better again?

I thought Mechanicum was good, Tales of Heresy is a collection of short stories including a couple with the Emperor in them.
I enjoyed reading Fallen Angels though it seemed inconsistent with the previous one, different authors of course.
Thousand Sons is good though the Council of Nikaea part seemed rushed and overly simplified given who was in attendance.

Ben Counter is a reasonable author, he wrote Galaxy in Flames too of course, but Battle for the Abyss fails for two major reasons.
The first is that it is a vanilla book about marines fighting bad guys and has very little to add to the background story of the Horus Heresy which is the main reason people want to read the book.
The second is that having set the Word Bearers up as specialists in ship fighting, he then has his ragtag team of heroes defeat them at every turn like some kids cartoon.
A pity he's not alone in such things.
I liked however his Grey Knights series, not such a fan of the Soul Drinkers series with Squiddly Diddly at the helm.

I'd have to re-read the Blood Ravens stories by Goto to pass any real judgement on him but I feel he's become more an icon of derision rather than genuinely being the bad author that some make him out to be. A bit like some make out GW to be the spawn of satan until something new comes out and then curse their lack of money.