I Think Dark Eldar May no Longer be Safe From Updates

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**Chimera_Calvin**

ATM they only have 2 apoc units - void dragon phoenix and the raven, but I could see them getting a superheavy flyer along the lines of the eldar vampire (although hopefully something unique unlike the VD phoenix - did the S&M army really get that by accident?

)

As for ground forces, maybe a gargantuan creature (think uber-talos). It would make them significantly different from any other army out there and that's always a good thing

**Gargskull**

Uber Talos vs Tomb Stalker would be a hell of a thing to see on the table.

**Voronesh**

Basically DE are an interesting army, because there is so very little fluff about them, beyond that they were the original Eldar, were still the hedonistic ones (most closely resembling the Eldar right before the fall).

So yes, if they ever relaunch DE, its gonna be as a new faction, maybe using some old models. UJntil all of it is replaced by new stuff, since its mostly ugly.

To sum it up. DE suck currently, because the codex doesnt have lots of gimmickslike the 5thed ones, and the models are sub par, as long as they dont receive anything new, theyre practically dead. Playablebut not something that can suprise you as an army.

**Archonate**

Howard A Treesong wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:So, when DE come out - what will there be left for DD to deny?

"When"? We've yet to see any actual proof they are anywhere near production, it's all hearsay based on secondhand accounts of glimpses made over several months or even years. Even if there is work done and there are sculpts finalised there's still plenty of time for GW to pull the plug. All they have to do is decide that the release slot wouldn't be as profitable as say, another Space Marine army, and they'll be axed. It's not too late to cut your losses and cancel production until you've manufactured 100,000 boxes and sent them to the shops. Why is it that there's a Dark Eldar thread here every month claiming that the new codex is only 6 months or a year away?

Many people seem keen to talk up the 'potential' of the DE line even though they've not even seen the purported sculpts and codex, but it's historically been a poorly performing line (due to GW lack of support so the fault is theirs) and that means that a re-release is a gamble in the eyes of executives, another space marine army is a safe bet for stable profit which is what people like to see these days. Even if they do want to make a release they are likely to be continually pushed back for a rainy day instead of given a prime spot for release.

The development work on the Dark Eldar, if it is to be believed, is going at a snail's pace mainly because it's Jes Goodwin on his own. This doesn't strike me as the enthusiastic corporate approach for a serious release, it's more speculative. Which would suggest that the DE have only lingered on in the fashion that they have because, like the support for 'Specialist Games', they're someone's pet project.

I've been a member here for nearly two years and was a lurker a long while before that, and Dark Eldar have always been "coming out next year". If they appear in the next 12 months I'll eat my hat.

But this whole sentiment is equally as tedious as DE threads with no substance.
"BLAH BLAH BLAH POOR SALES RECORDS. BLAH BLAH BLAH MOAR SPACE MARINES!"
Some of you are so wrapped up in the span of years that DE have been on wishlists, that you're not paying attention to what has changed about these rumors.

Before the recent and currently-circulating DE rumors:
GW never said anything about new DE. You all talk as though they teased and hinted, but actually they really never did. Never a word besides a rare WD article. (Which I personally think was just GW saying "We still recognize DE as part of this universe." in response to rumors about being squatted. But no GW representative of any significance ever said DE are getting a new release. Every rumor about DE was just somebody saying that they hope DE happen soon if not next. GWs moronic secrecy contributed to and helped foster these hopes, which never really had a leg to stand on. They were hopes occasionally peddled as truth and reliable hearsay, but never from GW.

What has changed since those days?
It started at the beginning of 5th Edition when Rick Priestly said in WD342 (July '08), pg37, and I quote directly: "Yes, I think it's about time the Dark Eldar, Space Wolves and a few others had their turn in the spotlight again."
Since then we've heard from Jes Goodwin's own mouth in a podcast saying he's about halfway done with the new DE range, and that was over a year ago. In fact that was around the time Gavin Thorpe said that DE are being redone and are near completion.

My point is that what we hear now is actually from GW. Some people in these forums act like that's no different from the aimless wishlisting that comprised DE rumors 3 years ago, but it is quite different. What we have now is quite similar to what we had 6 months before IG or SWs emerged. Very little. And no pretty pictures. But it was known that they were coming soon.

**Balance**

Gargskull wrote:Just out of interest, what kind of superheavy's do people think the Dark eldar might have?

It would be kind of cool if they extended the 'raider' theme and the 'striking from the warp' theme and had them bring floating chunks of their city in as slow Apocalypes elements.

**Saldiven**

Lorne wrote:Is there anything T8 in any standard codex isnt it reserved for appoc? For some reason I want to think an eldar walker is. I doubt a Talos would hit T8 as you are up to a S4 base to even wound it.

Talos is T7.

S 4 cannot wound T8.

The Eldar Wraithlord is T8.

**Tethyr13**

I agree...and it makes sense to me...

A long time ago, I got to see some "new Dark Eldar ideas". problem was that someone left the studio, started working for a different company and used a lot of the design elements of the "new idea" on a different company's figures....it really pissed some of the upper management at GW off. (I heard one swear fest tirade myself!- along the lines if I see that little !#$%%, !#%!#$%#$, @!#$%@#$%@#, @#$%#$, XXXX I'll kill him). Now this may have been HIS view of this whole thing, but he was definitely pissed off....

So they had to restart from scratch. and lets face it they were a quick and dirty "new" race for 40k in the first place. Finding a "new" concept for fluff and minis, all while also producing other stuff has probably not been easy. And I am sure that it became a ""Jes"-only type product. I mean, he's been pretty good at this stuff for a while - you know? So it would not surprise me, and with Jes saying stuff about them a year ago, I'd think they were getting close now though (one note, I think Jes may also be a bit of a perfectionist, so he may only be half way through because he still wants to go back and "tweak" stuff....).

But for all of those long suffering DE players, I do hope that they'll FINALLY get their wish, and that they'll like everything that Jes has come up with for them....they are bound to be better than the original plastics form the box set after all....

**Brother SRM**

Tethyr13 wrote:I agree...and it makes sense to me...

A long time ago, I got to see some "new Dark Eldar ideas". problem was that someone left the studio, started working for a different company and used a lot of the design elements of the "new idea" on a different company's figures....it really pissed some of the upper management at GW off. (I heard one swear fest tirade myself!- along the lines if I see that little !#$%%, !#%!#$%#$, @!#$%@#$%@#, @#$%#$, XXXX I'll kill him). Now this may have been HIS view of this whole thing, but he was definitely pissed off....

Source? Also, what company took the ideas? This actually sounds kind of interesting if it's true.

**Black Blow Fly**

Saldiven wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
If you're such a stickler for details on the dark eldar (granted, blow fly was way off), why on earth would you recommend dark eldar units getting psychic anything? They'd never ever ever use psychers (at least, according to the current fluff) for fear of attracting Slaanesh.

Oddly enough Archons are psykers. They already have psykers in their fluff. All Eldar are psykers. They are a psychic race designed to be living psychic weapons by their psychic masters who never evolve or mutate. They are all psychic.

I'm curious where you have found that Archons are psykers.

From a rules perspective, there is nothing psykic in the entire army. The only thing in the list that mentions psykers is the Crucible of Malediction, and that is something that kills psykers.

I have only read one Black Library book that had DE in it, and that was like 5-6 years ago. I have also read the DE codex fluff, such as there is. I don't recall in either of those locations any mention that Archons are psykers.

I agree with you Saldiven and would like to see Shurmagoth produce some real evidence to this claim of his. It goes against all existing background.

G

**ShumaGorath**

Saldiven wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:
If you're such a stickler for details on the dark eldar (granted, blow fly was way off), why on earth would you recommend dark eldar units getting psychic anything? They'd never ever ever use psychers (at least, according to the current fluff) for fear of attracting Slaanesh.

Oddly enough Archons are psykers. They already have psykers in their fluff. All Eldar are psykers. They are a psychic race designed to be living psychic weapons by their psychic masters who never evolve or mutate. They are all psychic.

I'm curious where you have found that Archons are psykers.

From a rules perspective, there is nothing psykic in the entire army. The only thing in the list that mentions psykers is the Crucible of Malediction, and that is something that kills psykers.

I have only read one Black Library book that had DE in it, and that was like 5-6 years ago. I have also read the DE codex fluff, such as there is. I don't recall in either of those locations any mention that Archons are psykers.

All Eldar are psykers. They are a psychic race. They also don't mutate or evolve, thats pretty well established in several works of fiction. Primarily you see talk of dark eldar psykers out of ancillary works of fiction, and then they aren't particularly powerful. Primarily using the abilities for communication, rather than any battlefield purpose. I don't see why they couldn't use psychic powers, they are hidden in the webway most of the time and the regular eldar don't seem to mind psykering everything up all the time.

**Defiler**

Gargskull wrote:Just out of interest, what kind of superheavy's do people think the Dark eldar might have?

Probably flyers.

**Saldiven**

ShumaGorath wrote:All Eldar are psykers. They are a psychic race. They also don't mutate or evolve, thats pretty well established in several works of fiction. Primarily you see talk of dark eldar psykers out of ancillary works of fiction, and then they aren't particularly powerful. Primarily using the abilities for communication, rather than any battlefield purpose. I don't see why they couldn't use psychic powers, they are hidden in the webway most of the time and the regular eldar don't seem to mind psykering everything up all the time.

While I will admit to not having read all of the various Black Library works that are out there (I have not yet read one that would have won a high school creative writing contest, and so cannot be bothered with reading all of them), any of the books that state that Dark Eldar have psykers among them goes against the fluff in Codex: Dark Eldar.

I can only think of one BL book that features DE as a major part of the story, and I know as a fact that there was never a mention of psykers at any point in that work.

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking Dark Eldar and Eldar are identical. It's immaterial as to whether or not they evolve. If, as much of the fluff shows, the DE went out of their way to destroy psykers as they manifested themselves to protect the race from discovery by Slaneesh, then eventually those with the power to actually manipulate psykic energies would die out.

**Black Blow Fly**

Saldiven I think Shurmagoth is trolling... as he often does. My advice is ignore him as I am doing.

G

**Kroothawk**

Read page 13 of the Eldar Codex (Eldar technology"), then you will understand that the whole Eldar race is latent psionic. Even Dark Eldar use wraithbone vehicles, at least the flyers. Currently DE don't field psionics in the rules, but any discussion on the 3rd edition background is futile, as it will change.

BTW DE are a mobile army, so a superheavy is unfluffy.

**Kanluwen**

Saldiven wrote:
ShumaGorath wrote:All Eldar are psykers. They are a psychic race. They also don't mutate or evolve, thats pretty well established in several works of fiction. Primarily you see talk of dark eldar psykers out of ancillary works of fiction, and then they aren't particularly powerful. Primarily using the abilities for communication, rather than any battlefield purpose. I don't see why they couldn't use psychic powers, they are hidden in the webway most of the time and the regular eldar don't seem to mind psykering everything up all the time.

While I will admit to not having read all of the various Black Library works that are out there (I have not yet read one that would have won a high school creative writing contest, and so cannot be bothered with reading all of them), any of the books that state that Dark Eldar have psykers among them goes against the fluff in Codex: Dark Eldar.

I can only think of one BL book that features DE as a major part of the story, and I know as a fact that there was never a mention of psykers at any point in that work.

Also, don't make the mistake of thinking Dark Eldar and Eldar are identical. It's immaterial as to whether or not they evolve. If, as much of the fluff shows, the DE went out of their way to destroy psykers as they manifested themselves to protect the race from discovery by Slaneesh, then eventually those with the power to actually manipulate psykic energies would die out.

Then you're *really* reading the wrong fiction. Cadian Blood, Soul Hunter, Abnett's stuff...all fantastic.

But, the only piece of BL fiction I can think of that features Dark Eldar in any role is from "Tales of Heresy" and is about Space Wolves from the 13th Company fighting a guerilla war against the Dark Eldar on a planet the Dark Eldar use as a hunting/feeding ground ala the Wraith from Stargate: Atlantis or the Predators from the Predator franchise.

**Klawz**

LunaHound wrote:
Oshova wrote:Getting rid of the boobs too!!!? Well might as well sell off the Wyches now then =p

Oshova

Wych boobs are fine i think.
But , sculpts like this one might be reconsidered

GAH, MY INNOCENCE, MY INNOCENCE!

**Death By Monkeys**

I can't remember which book it's in right off the bat, but there's also a short story about an IG Commissar who gets captured by the DE, sent to the gladiatorial arenas, wins and is sent to be tortured, but then escapes and tries to lead a slave revolt.

I think it was either in Dark Imperium or Into the Maelstrom - can't remember which.

**Black Blow Fly**

There are many pieces of fiction that include the DE. The smurf novel about the Nightbringer has already been mentioned. There is the brief comic featured in the old Inferno entitled The Dead Can Still Serve. There was a short story in the Inferno about dark eldar versus eldar... there are many others, such as Ephrael Stern fighting hte dark eldar in the graphic series Daemonifuge. Not to be a jerk but I find it hilarious how little people know about the DE. I have explained their background as told to me by a developer... hopefully some of you will enjoy that.

G

**ShumaGorath**

Black Blow Fly wrote:Saldiven I think Shurmagoth is trolling... as he often does. My advice is ignore him as I am doing.

G

Excuse me? I'm not the one talking out of my arse and being blatantly wrong after restarting my account post being banned then claiming others are trolling.

Not to be a jerk but I find it hilarious how little people know about the DE. I have explained their background as told to me by a developer... hopefully some of you will enjoy that.

Forgive people for not believing you when you make things up.

**Black Blow Fly**

I have alerted the mods. This is really getting out of hand now.

G

**Lint**

Hey gang, sorry I'm late:

**Death By Monkeys**

Pssst. Lint - check the front page of the News and Rumors section stickied at the top of the page. It's labeled "Dark Eldar - No new photos" - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/234173.page

**reds8n**

Death By Monkeys wrote:I can't remember which book it's in right off the bat, but there's also a short story about an IG Commissar who gets captured by the DE, sent to the gladiatorial arenas, wins and is sent to be tortured, but then escapes and tries to lead a slave revolt.

I think it was either in Dark Imperium or Into the Maelstrom - can't remember which.

Dark Imperium, "Hellbreak" by Ben Counter.

If we can stop with the general name calling and BS that'd be good too.

Yes, the Eldra as a whole are somewhat psychic, obviously this varies from individual to individual. This includes the Dark Eldar. The Tormemtor helms as used by the Incubi are "thought activated" for example.

That said it seems likely, from what has been doing the rounds and the more recent depictions of the DE -- see Dark Disciple especially here -- that the current scant amounts of DE background will be built opon or changed as/when their new book comes out. We've already seen minor things -- the addition of more than 1 DE city for example --and I think we'll see some more, and very interesting, fluff to do with the Mandrakes especially.

**Railguns**

There isn't anything coming out and saying that the Dark Eldar aren't psychic. The Eldar, as a genetically distinct race, are all psychic to some basic degree. Therefore we can logically conclude that until some official contradiction occurs, it is safe to assume that Dark Eldar are also psychic. Now, as to the relative lack of battlefield psykers and such, it would not be unreasonable to assume that since the Dark Eldar are on different "terms" with Slaanesh, any sort of activity that activates, enlarges, or otherwise destabilizes their psychic presence, such as psychic powers, would allow Slaanesh to simply siphon them faster or entirely at once. Obviously, this would be bad, so you don't really see major psyker power use among Dark Eldar. Normal Eldar don't have this problem because 1) they are actively avoiding the thought processes that lead them to such vulnerability and 2) the battle psykers all use Ghosthelms to mask their warp presence.

**Howard A Treesong**

Death By Monkeys wrote:Pssst. Lint - check the front page of the News and Rumors section stickied at the top of the page. It's labeled "Dark Eldar - No new photos" - http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/234173.page

Did they ever cast any of these up within the studio or did they only ever remain as greens?

**Flashman**

This forum is going to go nuts as and when a GW painted pic of a new DE mini is posted.

I think we should all start working on our, "Yeah, that's not bad... what Codex is being released next?" reactions so we don't come across too Warseer.

**JohnHwangDD**

Sidstyler wrote:I'll believe it when they're on the advanced orders page.

This.

____

ShumaGorath wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:So, when DE come out - what will there be left for DD to deny?

He could always just beat the dead horse of overpowered models selling new minis. Its about as hairbrained!

Of course, first, DE need to come out...

___

Gitkikka wrote:I'll believe the DE are coming back when I see it.

This, too.

____

Howard A Treesong wrote:"When"?

We've yet to see any actual proof they are anywhere near production, it's all hearsay based on secondhand accounts of glimpses made over several months or even years.

Why is it that there's a Dark Eldar thread here every month claiming that the new codex is only 6 months or a year away?

The development work on the Dark Eldar, if it is to be believed, is going at a snail's pace mainly because it's Jes Goodwin on his own.

I've been a member here for nearly two years and was a lurker a long while before that, and Dark Eldar have always been "coming out next year".

If they appear in the next 12 months I'll eat my hat.

Apparently, some people are secretly in possession of actual production / release information that the rest of us haven't seen.

Why? "I want to believe". The power of wishlisting is strong.

And that's why I've been a skeptic over DE coming out merely based on somebody claiming to have heard something from somebody else who can't verify anything.

Perhaps you should have put down a wager with Yakface like I did. I wonder if anybody on the board is man enough to take you up on a wager when you're proven to be right.

**olympia**

There will be one more 40k codex this year...DE or Necrons? hmmm....

**Death By Monkeys**

reds8n wrote:Dark Imperium, "Hellbreak" by Ben Counter.

Thanks, Red. I figured if Kanluwen didn't know, you would. I'd forgotten it was by Ben Counter.

**Kanluwen**

Death By Monkeys wrote:
reds8n wrote:Dark Imperium, "Hellbreak" by Ben Counter.

Thanks, Red. I figured if Kanluwen didn't know, you would. I'd forgotten it was by Ben Counter.

When did I suddenly become the Encyclopedia Black Library?

Either way, it sounds interesting.