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Note that they do not have to use IG/SM vehicles, they can use any other vehicle of appropriate size.

She's right, you know.
During the War of Dakka, there were accounts of orkish looted Hammerheads and Skyrays that the orks had downed and then refitted with weapons and engines of their own, as well as the weapons that they found on the vehicles themselves.

Melissia wrote:I'm not trying to be antagonistic here, I'm merely asking for a direct GW source.

If you re-read my post more closely, you will see that I do reference GorkaMorka as the source for the current background that has orks produced via spores. This is the source of the background as well as numerous White Dwarf articles since GorkaMorka came out; and before you ask I am not going to trawl through one hundred and forty plus issues of White Dwarf for those specific articles.

I NEVER asked for whether or not Orks reproduce by spores.

Rather, I wanted this particular quote to be cited, though I should have been more specific

Instead orkoid mushrooms can determine what they generate, optimishing for the most useful orkoid lifeforms. In this case, more mushrooms. Once there is a signinificant amount of mushrooms then you will get snotlings who harvest and grow the mushrooms. In the distant past these snotlings would have eaten enhancing mushrooms which would have allowed them to fully mature and become Brain Boyz but since those particluar mushrooms no-longer exist snotlings just stay as snotlings. Then you will get squigly beasts, then gretchin, then orks.

There's various aspects of this which I am unsure are actually in official, modern fluff, but most prominently:

-- The brainboyz bit is suggested to be Imperial speculation in the fourth edition codex, where do you find that they suggest it was for real?
-- The first three sentences, while sounding logical, I think need a citation as I don't think GW ever got that specific.

I'm pretty sure it's not so much decision as the strength of the Orkoid psychic presence in the area. Still, I haven't read Gorkamorka's rulebook, so whatever, I could be wrong.

I think the Krork theory is more accurate than the Brain Boyz theory, myself.

I always assumed the Brainboyz were the Old Ones, or how the orks remembered them anyway.

Melissia wrote:snip

This is going the same direction as other conversations I've had with you and the last time I promised myself I would never spend hours and hours going through books to find a sentence here, a paragraph there, just because you seem to think that anything you haven't read isn't real. Therefore I am going to take your tack from last time and 'not bother'.

Also, terming something 'modern fluff' is irrelevant, unless Games Workshop has actually re-written a piece of background (orks used to reproduce via marsupial pouches now via spores for example) then it doesn't matter how old it is it is still current. Games Workshop prints things once and very rarely prints them again, yes that does mean quite often the readership are assumed to have knowledge they may not have but that's something to take up with Games Workshop. It may be your opinion or preference to rate the source material by age, publisher, or the fact you just don't like it (Daemonifuge for example) but that's your problem not mine.


As for the Krork, they may or may not be orks, we don't know in either case but based on the material presented in Xenology, GorkaMorka, Codex: Orks, it does not rule out or contradict the idea of the Brain Boyz in any way. It's also always been the case that with regards to the Brain Boyz they are supposed to be what snotlings used to be when they were able to mature (they probably still could be Brain Boyz even now, they just don't have the means to mature any more). You may choose to believe it, you may choose not to believe it, you may choose to ignore it, whatever, it's no skin off my nose.

Someone asked a question, I answered it, do with that information what you will.

Gogsnik wrote:[... off-topic stuff removed...]
As for the Krork, they may or may not be orks, we don't know in either case but based on the material presented in Xenology, GorkaMorka, Codex: Orks, it does not rule out or contradict the idea of the Brain Boyz in any way. It's also always been the case that with regards to the Brain Boyz they are supposed to be what snotlings used to be when they were able to mature (they probably still could be Brain Boyz even now, they just don't have the means to mature any more). You may choose to believe it, you may choose not to believe it, you may choose to ignore it, whatever, it's no skin off my nose.

Someone asked a question, I answered it, do with that information what you will.

The fact that the Brain Boyz theory is now considered an Imperial theory (see the latest Ork codex) puts doubt on its continued canonicity, however.

The Imperium believes a lot of things about non-humans. A lot of them aren't exactly very accurate.

And you didn't answer the other part...

i have seen looted carnifexes as well, do what ever you want!

I like that though not really a vehicle.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yet another questions, have orks ever fought Tyranids? if so who won?

There have been both wins and losses for both sides. There was a battle on Tesla Prime between a splinter fleet of Leviathan and a tribe of Lootas who had found some experimental weaponry. The Orks are implied to have won that one.
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Melissia wrote:Note that they do not have to use IG/SM vehicles, they can use any other vehicle of appropriate size.

Yes, but my main point that I wanted to get across was that while you can use a variety of models to represent ork "looted vehicles" that the rules for them come from the ORk codex.

I got the impression that the OP thought you could simply cherry pick vehicles (and their rules) from various codexes and use them in an ork army, which is false.

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Err, what? No, it's a stalemate, which is beneficial to Orks but not to Tyranids. Where'd you get that Orks are losing?

Melissia wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:
On the other hand, the Ork empire of Octavius is slowly being crushed by another splinter fleet. If reinforcements don't arrive soon, they may well lose.

Err, what? No, it's a stalemate, which is beneficial to Orks but not to Tyranids. Where'd you get that Orks are losing?

It's heavily implied in the Tyranid codex, I believe. Sorry, should have stated that. My bad!

Hrm. I should probably read the bug dex someday, but I really couldn't be arsed... bugs don't interest me at all.

They are just a teensy bit overstated in terms of how they're going to eat the galaxy and nothing can stop them.

Melissia wrote:The fact that the Brain Boyz theory is now considered an Imperial theory...

'Many of the more civilised races of the galaxy have speculated about where the seemingly omnipresent Ork race came from...'

Codex Orks, page seven

No specific mention of the Imperium or Imperial historians.

'The Runtherdz refer to the mysterious forefathers of the Orks as the Brainboyz.'

Codex Orks, page seven

Specific mention that the Brain Boyz history/legend is in fact Ork in origin and maintained by Orks.

...you didn't answer the other part...

Clarify, 'other part'.

Ah, the latter one is definitely a good source (orks themselves referring to it).

As for the last sentence...

Instead orkoid mushrooms can determine what they generate, optimishing for the most useful orkoid lifeforms. In this case, more mushrooms. Once there is a signinificant amount of mushrooms then you will get snotlings who harvest and grow the mushrooms.

While this matches up to what I know, I really don't know the source for it.

Melissia wrote:I really don't know the source for it.

Mm.

Good job cutting half a sentence off and then quoting it out of context and then not actually answering.

Out of context with what exactly? My post is consequent to yours and I replied to the pertinent part of it in the manner of my choosing. I did say earlier that I was going to follow your tack and 'not bother' [to provide the source/s].

As I say, you can trust the validity of what I have said or not; whichever you prefer.

If my asking you for a source offends you, then you are free to report my posts. But I do not believe that such a request is either against the rules or really rude whenever discussing background material. Until you provide a source for your claims, all that can be said about them is that they are speculation. When asked, I provide sources, so I certainly don't find it rude.

For my part, I agree with your conclusion, I merely wished to know where your information came from, exactly. If you cannot-- or are unwilling to-- say what your source is, then the information can be (and is) dismissed as such.

Melissia wrote: ...

My suggestion then to you in future, when confronted with a piece of background with which you are unfamiliar is to simply ask where it's from, instead of accusing someone of making things instead of conceitedly saying that if you haven't read it, it must be untrue. I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, maybe when you don't know something the best thing to do is to jump strait to the conclusion that the other person is deluded and start warning people off becuase you think they've made it up.

You can dismiss what I have said if you like but everyone else who has read the source from which that information is taken will know the validity of it.

Gogsnik wrote:instead of accusing someone

You're really reading way too much into my "cite your source" requests.

I asked for your source so that I can go read it myself, it's really that simple. If you don't have a source, then you can't really say with 100% assurance that you are right. If this attitude offends you, then I make no apologies for it... this is a background forum after all, we're talking about the lore of 40k, and sometimes people have very weird ideas about how 40k works which have no backing in the background. I never even said you were one of them... I even said I agreed with you.

About three times.

So, shall we get back on topic? Please, cite your source for the information I requested. If it's just speculation, that's fine... just admit that it is and move on. It certainly sounds logical to me, but if it isn't stated in the background then the bit about the spores having the ability to detect psychic signals and decide which type of Orkoid to hatch is just speculation. Logical, reasonable speculation? Sure. But still speculation.

Gorskar to the rescue.

I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit. However, I don't believe it's a decision, par se, as opposed to something unthinking, like crocodiles' genders being determined in the egg due to the temperature of the surroundings.
Except, in this case, psychic links.

Thanks, I'll go look that up!

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit.

It isn't from there.

Melissia wrote:You're really reading way too much into my "cite your source" requests.

I'm not bothered about citing sources.

For someone complaining about taking things out of context you do it yourself well enough. The objectionable post is this one, as if you didn't know:

Melissia wrote:I'm wondering where he got that from, as I don't recall reading that in the latest Ork codex. It could just be speculation for all I know.

While I DO recall information about how Ork colonies tend to go from Fungus -> Squigs -> Grots -> Boyz, I don't remember it being THAT specific about information.

Intending to say that if you, Melissia, have not read it it must not be true.

The proper form, when confronted with information with which you are unfamiliar, would be to merely ask where is it from and not to slag someone off.

It goes both ways, Gogsnik.

Just because one has not heard it is true, does not mean it is false. And just because one believes it is true does not mean that it is.

I'm not assuming it is false... I'm actually saying I think it's true, and that I agree with you. Four times now, I believe? But I need a source. A source is confirmation that it is, indeed, canon. If there is no source, you may be right, you may not... but you can't confirm it and so it is just speculation. Speculation does not equal false. Speculation means (to quote from the Princeton dictionary) "[a] guess: a message expressing an opinion based on incomplete evidence".

So yes. I agree that this is probably the way Ork reproduction works. But I need a source to confirm it and make sure that it is, in fact, the way it works. If there is no source, then I can still believe this is the way it works... but I would qualify that by saying "probably" instead, because I would not be entirely sure.


By the way, after reading through the thread again... I'd like to re-assert this: the fourth edition codex states that they produce spores all throughout their life. Not just at the time of death, though that is by far the time at which they produce the most. Death, I would presume, means that whatever spores they have on them scatter to the winds, and the fungus in the body starts to convert the animal portion and itself into spores.

Gogsnik wrote:

Gorskar.da.Lost wrote:I believe the information you're looking for is in the previous Ork codex, in the Lukas Anzion bit.

It isn't from there.

Seriously? Where is it from, then? I'm curious, now!