Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

KingCracker wrote:I dont agree with the "Chaos Necrons" idea at all. You guys play way to much Space Marines if you ask me. The Necrons are all about their all powerful C'Tan, and I very much doubt they would change that huge of an advantage.

Nobody said anything about "Chaos Necrons".

samrtk wrote:Even if a Necron Lord does rebel, the C'tan would merely need to lift a finger and crush whats left of him, recycle him and retrive the rogue army.

Which as I said, is boring as hell. If Necrons are immortal machines that don't do anything but serve the C'tan, you've just got a second Tyranid faction, with "feed the hive" replaced with "feed the C'tan".

Which is why if you make the goals of the Necrons dependant upon which C'Tan they serve, then it becomes more interesting - suddenly you've got four different methods of doing Necrons, and four different (and no-doubt mutually exclusive) goals.

Sadly, the way GW would implement this is just to have each C'Tan give you a few different special rules.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Which is why if you make the goals of the Necrons dependant upon which C'Tan they serve, then it becomes more interesting - suddenly you've got four different methods of doing Necrons, and four different (and no-doubt mutually exclusive) goals.

Sadly, the way GW would implement this is just to have each C'Tan give you a few different special rules.

Truth in that...and as I pointed out, similar to have chaos works...you play an army of a particular god it gets and does certain things. I could see GW pulling this with Necrons as well. You have an army supporting a given C'Tan, it gets and does certain things. Hell just look at the similarity...4 gods, 4 C'Tan. It would be a bit lazy of GW to do it that way, but then again so is having them be a single minded race, just like Tyranids.

In the end GW has several things to address...the unpopular C'Tan, the fact that army function and background are very one dimensional (even Tyranids have more flexibility), The current range of models are mostly metal and old, and the heavily nerfed rules.

I dont think the C'Tan will go away, just get reworked. Im personally hoping to have upcoming fluff awaken the Void Dragon and cause all kinds of fun and excitement on Mars.

Exactly how it ends up wont be known until the codex arrives. However those that point to recent books and new bits of fluff, that are pretty divergent from the old, are likely on the right track. GW may be dropping some hints.

H.B.M.C. wrote:Which is why if you make the goals of the Necrons dependant upon which C'Tan they serve, then it becomes more interesting - suddenly you've got four different methods of doing Necrons, and four different (and no-doubt mutually exclusive) goals.

It would be an improvement, but it's still the same old "All roads lead to C'tan" that made the 3rd edition codex so abnoxious.

Mad4Minis wrote:Im personally hoping to have upcoming fluff awaken the Void Dragon and cause all kinds of fun and excitement on Mars.

No. Not only does it waste what should have been a setting-shaping feat by the Emperor by using it as nothing more than another Sealed Evil in a Can, the likely consequence of the Void Dragon somehow escaping is that the Imperium dies.

AlexHolker wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:Which is why if you make the goals of the Necrons dependant upon which C'Tan they serve, then it becomes more interesting - suddenly you've got four different methods of doing Necrons, and four different (and no-doubt mutually exclusive) goals.

It would be an improvement, but it's still the same old "All roads lead to C'tan" that made the 3rd edition codex so abnoxious.

Mad4Minis wrote:Im personally hoping to have upcoming fluff awaken the Void Dragon and cause all kinds of fun and excitement on Mars.

No. Not only does it waste what should have been a setting-shaping feat by the Emperor by using it as nothing more than another Sealed Evil in a Can, the likely consequence of the Void Dragon somehow escaping is that the Imperium dies.

According to the 5th ed rulebook the Imperium IS dying. The void dragon waking, starting a rampage, and a good chunk of the Techpriests joining him would make a great catalyst for another Heresy level shakedown.

The Imperium has been top dog for too long. It needs to nearly fall, just in time for the Emperor to rise again and reform it in its former glory. Thats where they have been heading since day one. They have milked the "holding the Imperium together by a thread" thing for what 20+ years? Its time to take the next step in the story line.

So much anger in a rumor/speculation thread about a Codex that is a long ways away.

I hate the Necrons even more now than ever before!

Please endeavor to NOT make it personal in here, OK everyone?

I can see where HBMC is going and I agree. There is not a lot of fluff going for Necrons; they hate all living things and are mindless for the most part etc, etc. A bit like Nids.

Opening this up to various styles dependant upon C'Tan will work wonders but if rumours are true that it will be in the next few months it's too late to change.

Am I the only one who finds the core necron plastics far to bland and undetailed compared to current gen-plastics? People seem to be turned off due to the uniform fluff and limited personalization options... I can only imagine the warriors being relatively undetailed and limited in pose can only contribute to that. Do you guys agree they are a bit... mushy and plain on taking another look at them beside DE or BA? Or do you feel they are perfectly servicable as is?

I wonder what the chances are of them re-doing any of the plastics... Sorry if this question has already been put forward, I only saw the 'bone-giant' and 'big tomb spider' rumors earlier.

Elmodiddly wrote:I can see where HBMC is going and I agree. There is not a lot of fluff going for Necrons; they hate all living things and are mindless for the most part etc, etc. A bit like Nids.

Tyranids don't hate all living things. They love them. With barbecue sauce.

Balance wrote:Tyranids don't hate all living things. They love them. With barbecue sauce.

MajorTom11 wrote:Am I the only one who finds the core necron plastics far to bland and undetailed compared to current gen-plastics? People seem to be turned off due to the uniform fluff and limited personalization options... I can only imagine the warriors being relatively undetailed and limited in pose can only contribute to that. Do you guys agree they are a bit... mushy and plain on taking another look at them beside DE or BA? Or do you feel they are perfectly servicable as is?

I wonder what the chances are of them re-doing any of the plastics... Sorry if this question has already been put forward, I only saw the 'bone-giant' and 'big tomb spider' rumors earlier.

I love the current Necron plastics. I don't think they need to redo them at all. Except maybe the Monolith, I'd love for that to get something that looked more like super advanced alien tech, rather than big block. But the Warriors and Destroyers remain one of my favorite plastic kits, even with their general lack of detail compared to the new new plastics. I like and appreciate that lack of detail and overall sameness, as well as the mindlessness of their fluff, as one of my key draws to the faction. It's the one army where I Like spamming a lot of the same units and same styled stuff.

I just want them to add plastic Immortals, plastic Flayed Ones, and a plastic Tomb Spyder the size of a Carnifex. A second rung to that wish list is a plastic Lord kit, where He can have all the extra details and doodads similar to what the plastic Marine and Chaos Lords get. Only reason the Lord's second rung really is because I already have something like six Lords built up for various roles and purposes.

Aduro wrote:

MajorTom11 wrote:Am I the only one who finds the core necron plastics far to bland and undetailed compared to current gen-plastics? People seem to be turned off due to the uniform fluff and limited personalization options... I can only imagine the warriors being relatively undetailed and limited in pose can only contribute to that. Do you guys agree they are a bit... mushy and plain on taking another look at them beside DE or BA? Or do you feel they are perfectly servicable as is?

I wonder what the chances are of them re-doing any of the plastics... Sorry if this question has already been put forward, I only saw the 'bone-giant' and 'big tomb spider' rumors earlier.

I love the current Necron plastics. I don't think they need to redo them at all. Except maybe the Monolith, I'd love for that to get something that looked more like super advanced alien tech, rather than big block. But the Warriors and Destroyers remain one of my favorite plastic kits, even with their general lack of detail compared to the new new plastics. I like and appreciate that lack of detail and overall sameness, as well as the mindlessness of their fluff, as one of my key draws to the faction. It's the one army where I Like spamming a lot of the same units and same styled stuff.

I just want them to add plastic Immortals, plastic Flayed Ones, and a plastic Tomb Spyder the size of a Carnifex. A second rung to that wish list is a plastic Lord kit, where He can have all the extra details and doodads similar to what the plastic Marine and Chaos Lords get. Only reason the Lord's second rung really is because I already have something like six Lords built up for various roles and purposes.

I agree, I think the Necron plastics are great kits they just need more of them. Also the thought of a multi part plastic Nec Lord makes me drool (although I really like my plastic one on foot converted from a Destroyer )

Fair enough! For me, it's a lot to do with the faces, in the art when they released, the illustrations looked very creepy and somber to me, whereas the plastics look very cartoony and lacked the subtlety of expression.

However, that's just me, I am still looking forward to seeing what they come up with too!

Actually I like the "sameness" in the necrons. For me it fits the fluff. There really isn't any kinda individuality, just rows and rows of mindless robots marching forward killing anything that's alive. Thats how I think of em anyway.

Necros wrote:Actually I like the "sameness" in the necrons. For me it fits the fluff. There really isn't any kinda individuality, just rows and rows of mindless robots marching forward killing anything that's alive. Thats how I think of em anyway.

In general, I agree with this. The Necrons are, ultimately, the result of an entire race submitting to a greater power (the C'Tan) and being horribly doomed for it. They should be alien and otherly.

Aduro wrote:I just want them to add plastic Immortals, plastic Flayed Ones, and a plastic Tomb Spyder the size of a Carnifex. A second rung to that wish list is a plastic Lord kit, where He can have all the extra details and doodads similar to what the plastic Marine and Chaos Lords get. Only reason the Lord's second rung really is because I already have something like six Lords built up for various roles and purposes.

According to StickMonkey from Warseer you're going to get at least some of your wishes:

StickMonkey wrote:Looks like the dead machines may rise again in 2011. I have good information that Necrons should see a revision following GK. What I have heard:

New Codex drops mid year.
WBB changes to FNP for "most" units
New HQ options include "One" new C'Tan. Nightbringer and Deceiver to get new models...and at least one will have optional "incarnations"
New Tomb Spider plastic model. option to create alternate model that is Heavy artillery.
New fast cc focus unit. jump infantry. warrior sized.
new models for immortals.
new "tank" - could be the TS based artillery just referenced from different source.
new MC walker - likely the rumored "Necronmancer" - may be HQ or Heavy-conflicting rumors here.
New plastic Lord with all options.
New named Lord metal blister
New Monolith option...not represented in models to be released.

MajorTom11 wrote:Fair enough! For me, it's a lot to do with the faces, in the art when they released, the illustrations looked very creepy and somber to me, whereas the plastics look very cartoony and lacked the subtlety of expression.

However, that's just me, I am still looking forward to seeing what they come up with too!

That all depends upon how they're posed and painted. Loads of people go for the boring "hold weapon in front" thing and end up with a Necron who looks like they've just broken their back. Not being big headed but I wanted to avoid the usual look so tried out some different poses and it worked not too bad:

Some more quotes by stickmonkey on Necrons:

A very unreliable rumor source has all the C'Tan models moving to 60mm base sized MCs. That would almost certainly indicate plastic given GW's desire not to build big metal models.

Now that said, they have not to my knowledge ever produced a unique character model in plastic yet.

And to reiterate, this is a very "unreliable" rumor source...i have been fed BS from them before, even though they are in a position to know...so I did not include it above.

(On the question if both WBB and FNP will be present: )
the way it sounds is there are a few units with a WBB rule that is specific. But it is not the rule everyone is used to. I have nothing further to add here, sorry.

Other rumors on warseer have pointed to phase out going to unit basis...not army. but i havent had anything specific recently.

I'm not really thrilled with the FnP cop out but meh.

Even if they have what is essentially FNP rulewise, but just rename it WBB I'll be ok with that. Just seems a tad bit more flavorful.

Though unique rules are always more fun

I'm hoping at least half of StickMonkey's rumors are true! Jump Infantry Necrons would be nice to add to their lack of mobility but I don't think it really suits them. New artillery units sound amazing! A new monolith variant as well! I love it.

To add to the fluff discussion. I think it is possible for the Necron Lords to have a bit of independent thought. In the Blood Angels codex it mentions in the Gehenna Campaign the Blood Angels and Necrons teamed up to fight a Tyranid splinter fleet. After defeating them they parted ways without further fighting. It seems to me that if they were mindlessly under the direct command of the C'tan they would have continued attacking the Blood Angels.

The Different C'tan having different strategies seems lazy but it makes sense and I'm fine with it. They did praise different C'tan and had their own followers so I could see it being possible for different factions of Necrons. Its also possible for them to have fought, especially when the C'tan started turning on each other.

Maybe The Outsider will explode and all of the C'tan it consumed will be set free or something like that (reminds me of how Zeus set his brothers and sisters free from his father). Also although this sounds trivial I'm excited to see what new paint schemes they come up with. Out of all the armies I own the Necrons have been the hardest for me in terms of finding a paint scheme I like (finally decided on one ) so it will be cool to see what new schemes GW has come up with. Unless they just paint tham all the same boring silver

l0k1 wrote:I'm hoping at least half of StickMonkey's rumors are true!

You and me both. I dont really care about the WBB-FNP bit. If all those other rumors are good then Ill be in Necron mini heaven.

Kroothawk wrote:Some more quotes by stickmonkey on Necrons:

A very unreliable rumor source has all the C'Tan models moving to 60mm base sized MCs. That would almost certainly indicate plastic given GW's desire not to build big metal models.

Now that said, they have not to my knowledge ever produced a unique character model in plastic yet.

And to reiterate, this is a very "unreliable" rumor source...i have been fed BS from them before, even though they are in a position to know...so I did not include it above.

(On the question if both WBB and FNP will be present: )
the way it sounds is there are a few units with a WBB rule that is specific. But it is not the rule everyone is used to. I have nothing further to add here, sorry.

Other rumors on warseer have pointed to phase out going to unit basis...not army. but i havent had anything specific recently.

There was a popular rumor going around before about Necrons gaining something called the Necromancer (cant recall the name exactly, but I think this was it, since it didnt fit at all with what the unit was suppose to be), which was suppose to be similar (or equivallent) to that of the WHFB Bone Giant. This might be a MC plastic Kit designed to replace the Ctans, as the majority of the rumors also indicate that GW might be phasing them out due to not being able to represent them well on the tabletop.

I dont think the C'tan are BAD, they certainly aren't great. They have some ok abilities but I think their main problem is their cost. 360pts for a Nightbringer is quite a bit of points to sink into 1 model that doesn't count towards phase out. If it was 250 and could move 12' a turn it would be much more appealing.

I was hoping that the C'tan may have been taken out of the codex and put into the Apoc codex, seeing as the fluff makes them seem more on a par with a Titan or gargantuan creature. I can't see that happening though.

Personally, I'd just be happy with at least one more troops choice, and Rending special rules to Wraiths and Flayed ones.

I'd like to see the following

- Flayed Ones, possibly even Immortals moved to Troop choice or have them become a Troop choice if you take a specific unit

- Cheaper and more effective C'tan

- WBB/FNP either or really

- Phase out specific to unit or removed all together

- More Dakka Dakka. Necrons don't have enough heavy weapons

- Flayed One/Wraith Claws classified as CC weapons

- Plastic elites. Elites are way to expensive to buy and run full units for me

- Gauss Rule changed to Rending

- More options for the units. The Necron army is more one dimensional than their fluff. The only way to really customize your army is to paint it a different color or bash it.

Flayed ones/wraiths need power weapons or rending at the very least.

Phase out rule needs some serious reworking/dropping. Necrons should be able to just send troops into the mincer without thought. Mayeb phase out will depend on the C'tan instead as with necromancers in fantasy?

They really need a second troop choice to give them some options. Maybe even some transports - thinking "Phantom Menace" troop ships ...

The whole phase out thing was a balance to the WBB rule. However, if WBB gets dropped ofr FNP then Id say its fair to remove the mandatory phase out. Im sure it will remain in the fluff, necrons phase out when beaten instead of retreat/run...but game wise it can go.

Plastic models replacing some or all of the metals is pretty much a guarantee.

Mad4Minis wrote:Im personally hoping to have upcoming fluff awaken the Void Dragon and cause all kinds of fun and excitement on Mars.

Except that would advance the plot, unless the Void Dragon awakening is yet another event that just happens to occur in 999.M41.

40K fluff is vague and arbitrary (look at the Tyranid Codex for the best examples of this - suddenly there's a Swarmlord, and look at this Craftworld we invented just to kill it off a paragraph later for the sole purpose of this new 'Doom' unit). Anything new has to slot into the existing fluff in a method that doesn't rock the boat.