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Redemtion Corps

It has some good plot ideas and some good settings but it all seemed very mushed together

Grief_Bringer wrote:Hmm probably the worst one I ever made the mistake of reading was Warrior Brood by C. S. Goto.

Swiftly followed by Battle for the Abyss and A Thousand Sons.

I really enjoyed A Thousand Sons. I am biased though as I'm a big SW and TS fan so take my critique with a grain of salt.

I've only really read the HH books besides the Eisenhorn Omnibus. I really didn't like Tales of Heresy that much and I really hated Descent of Angels, although Fallen Angels was much better.

d-usa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:One Space Marine eats a Tau brain to get the manual for a Tau vehicle!

I don't know what's worse: The fact that this made it into a novel, or the fact that this is an real ability that Space Marines have according to GW fluff.

I know if I would research the background of Space Marines in order to write a book about them, and come across the GW listing of implants and see that one of them gives them the ability to gain the memories of enemies by eating their tissue, I would roll my eyes about how stupid this is and then put it in the book just to make a point.

What? Is that in book? That's pretty bad. The SM implant is just supposed to give you some instictive knowledge of the enviroment. i.e. like eating a local animal might give some insight on which plants to avoid not a full-blown user's manual. That writer seems to have confused a Space Marine with a Lictor.

I have been an avid Dark Angels player for about 20 years but the two qorst books I have read from the B/L are the Horus Heresy Dark Angels novels. Descent of Angels and Fallen Angels. They are both rediculously weak, It just seems that there was no impetous in the stories even though it could have been made into an exceptional part of the HH series. I did struggle abit with the Sould drinkers omnibus, so wanted to enjoy the three books, but come on......giant arachnid space marine captain trying to do the emperors work.......nah!

Great thread guys, I'm finding it very helpful.

I'm weighing my options for my next BL purchase and I'll be sure to avoid some of the books listed here.


I've only really read Dan Abbnet books, all of the Gaunt's Ghosts novels incl Blood Pact, and the Eisenhorn and Ravenor trilogies.

Those have all been pretty good for what they are.

The only one I didn't care much for was the second GG novel. I forget the name, but it just got dull after the 3rd chapter and the narrative structure was lacking, especially when compared to First and Only.

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:One Space Marine eats a Tau brain to get the manual for a Tau vehicle!

I don't know what's worse: The fact that this made it into a novel, or the fact that this is an real ability that Space Marines have according to GW fluff.

I know if I would research the background of Space Marines in order to write a book about them, and come across the GW listing of implants and see that one of them gives them the ability to gain the memories of enemies by eating their tissue, I would roll my eyes about how stupid this is and then put it in the book just to make a point.

What? Is that in book? That's pretty bad. The SM implant is just supposed to give you some instictive knowledge of the enviroment. i.e. like eating a local animal might give some insight on which plants to avoid not a full-blown user's manual. That writer seems to have confused a Space Marine with a Lictor.

It's in two books - it's also in Space Marine by Ian Watson, almost the exact same scenario (but with a titan instead of some fishy tank).

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:One Space Marine eats a Tau brain to get the manual for a Tau vehicle!

I don't know what's worse: The fact that this made it into a novel, or the fact that this is an real ability that Space Marines have according to GW fluff.

I know if I would research the background of Space Marines in order to write a book about them, and come across the GW listing of implants and see that one of them gives them the ability to gain the memories of enemies by eating their tissue, I would roll my eyes about how stupid this is and then put it in the book just to make a point.

What? Is that in book? That's pretty bad. The SM implant is just supposed to give you some instictive knowledge of the enviroment. i.e. like eating a local animal might give some insight on which plants to avoid not a full-blown user's manual. That writer seems to have confused a Space Marine with a Lictor.

Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

Ulver wrote:

KamikazeCanuck wrote:

d-usa wrote:

Kroothawk wrote:One Space Marine eats a Tau brain to get the manual for a Tau vehicle!

I don't know what's worse: The fact that this made it into a novel, or the fact that this is an real ability that Space Marines have according to GW fluff.

I know if I would research the background of Space Marines in order to write a book about them, and come across the GW listing of implants and see that one of them gives them the ability to gain the memories of enemies by eating their tissue, I would roll my eyes about how stupid this is and then put it in the book just to make a point.

What? Is that in book? That's pretty bad. The SM implant is just supposed to give you some instictive knowledge of the enviroment. i.e. like eating a local animal might give some insight on which plants to avoid not a full-blown user's manual. That writer seems to have confused a Space Marine with a Lictor.

It's in two books - it's also in Space Marine by Ian Watson, almost the exact same scenario (but with a titan instead of some fishy tank).

Really? Well then I guess it does work that way. Suck it Lictor.

Welp, if this thread tells us anything it's that unless it's C.S. Goto, keep an open mind and give a read for yourself. If it's Goto, take the uppercut instead.

Pinpointing the worst BL novel is a little hard for me. The first book of the Inquisition War trilogy was good, the second got meh, and then I threw my copy of Chaos Child in the trash can as soon as I finished it. And that's the only BL book I've done that with. So I'd say it pissed me off the most at least.

James Swallow's BA books were terrible.

I didn't like Ravenor at all. Haven't bothered to try Ravenor Returns.

Soul drinkers was aweful, but I have to say I had a roomate who wasn't into 40k, didn't even know what it was, and then picked up the Soul Drinkers books and was blown away.

It'd be interesting to get an 'outsiders' view of how BL books stack up to each other. I wonder how many books they could actually finish.

d-usa wrote:Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

This is ridiculous on so many levels, starting with tank driving manuals not being encrypted in the genes.
Fluff like this is the reason why I avoid all things Space Marine related.

I'm going to say Redemption Corps as the worst I've read. I hated the characters, the plot just sort of wandered off in no real direction, and the way the author depicted the Sisters of Battle was absolutely dreadful.

Kroothawk wrote:

d-usa wrote:Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

This is ridiculous on so many levels, starting with tank driving manuals not being encrypted in the genes.
Fluff like this is the reason why I avoid all things Space Marine related.

I assume the idea came from the various stories of warriors of primitive cultures eating the hearts of prey or enemies to gain it's strength, but with a sci-fi veneer applied. In general, it seems like this would be best explained as 'eating an enemy may provide some insights as the organ both renders the material harmless to the Space Marine and may help prime the Space Marine's system for unusual environments." I.E. a Space marine eats a bit of a critter from a world with some nasty poisons in the atmosphere, the organ starts making the Space Marine more resistant to said poisons.

Of course, this is just my concept and not canon.

Kroothawk wrote:

d-usa wrote:Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

This is ridiculous on so many levels, starting with tank driving manuals not being encrypted in the genes.
Fluff like this is the reason why I avoid all things Space Marine related.

I totally agree on it being ridiculous. But if that is the fluff GW provides to the BL authors, then I am not all that surprised as some of the weird stuff that they write...

Kroothawk wrote:

d-usa wrote:Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

This is ridiculous on so many levels, starting with tank driving manuals not being encrypted in the genes.
Fluff like this is the reason why I avoid all things Space Marine related.

BL is not for you then.

*Sadface*

Many of the titles just read through are those that I have to entertain me if the power goes out when Tropical Cyclone Yasi hits tonight...

Bugger just got upgraded to a Category 5... for those who are not Aussie, think Hurricane Katrina (since it received crazy huge media coverage when it hit Florida)

AvatarForm wrote:*Sadface*

Many of the titles just read through are those that I have to entertain me if the power goes out when Tropical Cyclone Yasi hits tonight...

Bugger just got upgraded to a Category 5... for those who are not Aussie, think Hurricane Katrina (since it received crazy huge media coverage when it hit Florida)

I think Katrina was more of a big deal when it hit New Orleans, but I can't blame people for not knowing US Geography.

We're preparing for ice storms across a big chunk of North America tonight, in fact.

BrookM wrote:BL is not for you then.

Why? Gotek and Felix novels are great!
And Path of the Warrior fields not a single Space marine IIRC. And Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Caine are quite safe as well.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Yeah Eye of Terror was pretty dreadful but Mechanicum caused me physical pain to the point I was scribbling notes in the margin (will anything happen this chapter? nope).

I mean I've heard of Mary Sues but never saw such a blatant one in a book that actual editors and publishers approved.

Mechanicum was a great book. I didn't think it was that slow and gave us an insight into the old Mars. So far as I know they are no other books on this. (I'm probably wrong though).

Kroothawk wrote:

d-usa wrote:Courtesy of Matt Ward and the SM Codex:

Omophagea - Space Marines can gain part of a person or creature's memory by eating its flesh. This special organ is implanted between the thoracic vertebrae and the stomach wall. It works by absorbing genetic material from the meal itself.

This is ridiculous on so many levels, starting with tank driving manuals not being encrypted in the genes.
Fluff like this is the reason why I avoid all things Space Marine related.

You mean the shoulder pads that reach to the elbow and block all sight left and right didn't give it away? Space Marines are daft, end of. Most of the fluff is daft, but that's why it's entertaining; if you want realistic try 'Physics for You' or something similar.

Mr Mystery wrote:I think it's called Eye of Terror.

Was one of the first BL books produced (well, when it became BL. After the original titles were all removed from sale and the publishing wing was relaunched)

I have had the misfortune of picking this up the other day.. Was at the used bookstore, and saw a title I didn't recognize.

Well... it is providing serious amusement at least..

Lets see.. rare psyker has insights into the Eye of Terror to the point where the Inquisition authorizes a special Null Ship to go into the Eye with a team of precogs and clairvoyants.. a squad of marines, and dual navigators. Once they get there.. it is too 'static-y" to get a read of space around them, so... they shut off the dampers for the Psykers to "get a good look".

Needless to say, that spelled doom for the ship.

End of Chapter 1.

Then.. we are treated to the cliche..

A rogue trader walks into a bar.. and finds an Eldar Robot called a Wraithguard lounging against the bar.. (and yes, the word was lounging)..

I am not sure I am gonna finish this.. so far the crimes against what nominally consist of 40k canon is pretty bad.

The Emperor decides to wake up all of a sudden and challenge the Chaos Gods, the Tyranid Hive Mind, Gork, Mork, and Mindy, and all the Tau Ethereals to an arm wrestling contest for control of the Imperium of Man.

There...I just wrote the best Black Library novel premise of all time.

WarOne wrote:The Emperor decides to wake up all of a sudden and challenge the Chaos Gods, the Tyranid Hive Mind, Gork, Mork, and Mindy, and all the Tau Ethereals to an arm wrestling contest for control of the Imperium of Man.

There...I just wrote the best Black Library novel premise of all time.

I would read it

Conquest of Armageddon, by Jonathan Green.

A Black Templar that can spit Acid (no really!). Two Space Marine Kill teams bump into each other in the middle of the deepest darkest jungle (how rare are these guys?). A Relictor SM Captain gets killed and the BT Chaplain is happy well they are on the same side though they end up killing each other. A Dreadnought falls into river after falling off a cliff. Gets washed down stream and washed up on a beach "Goes Bersy Quack and kills everything". The Emperors Champion gets kidnapped or Orc-Knapped by an Ork Warlord after falling over the same waterfall. A group of IG run around with a Kroot guide trying to get a Bio Weapon. Angron tries to come back and the World Eaters end up in some crazy three-some battle in the middle of the jungle in Armageddon with 2 space Marine kill teams and a Band of Feral Orks. Oh don't get me started on the Cyber Orks either...

This book confused the hell out of me as it is written from two different kill teams perspective at the start, before changing to a single kill team conventional narrative...

The less said about "Squiggoth" the better, seriously "ORKASAURUS" is a word I never want to see again...

umm.. evidently one of the Marine super organs turns their spittle into acid (which does not harm their stomachs), but can be an emergency weapon..

Fairly certain that that bit of fluff is 5 editions old.. and has been fairly consistant

porkuslime wrote:evidently one of the Marine super organs turns their spittle into acid (which does not harm their stomachs)

Is that because stomachs are filled with acid?

eh.. not as such.. here is the info from the Lexicanum site..

Betcher's Gland

Phase 17: Consists of two identical glands, implanted either into the lower lip, alongside the salivary glands or into the hard palette. The gland works in a similar way to the poison gland of venomous reptiles by synthesizing and storing deadly poison, which the Marines themselves are immune to due to the gland's presence. This allows a Space Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive and can even burn away strong metals given sufficient time.

Personally i didnt lik the Blood Angels and Grey knights books, it is just... a turnoff.

porkuslime wrote:

Mr Mystery wrote:I think it's called Eye of Terror.

Was one of the first BL books produced (well, when it became BL. After the original titles were all removed from sale and the publishing wing was relaunched)

I have had the misfortune of picking this up the other day.. Was at the used bookstore, and saw a title I didn't recognize.

Well... it is providing serious amusement at least..

Lets see.. rare psyker has insights into the Eye of Terror to the point where the Inquisition authorizes a special Null Ship to go into the Eye with a team of precogs and clairvoyants.. a squad of marines, and dual navigators. Once they get there.. it is too 'static-y" to get a read of space around them, so... they shut off the dampers for the Psykers to "get a good look".

Needless to say, that spelled doom for the ship.

End of Chapter 1.

Then.. we are treated to the cliche..

A rogue trader walks into a bar.. and finds an Eldar Robot called a Wraithguard lounging against the bar.. (and yes, the word was lounging)..

I am not sure I am gonna finish this.. so far the crimes against what nominally consist of 40k canon is pretty bad.

I quite enjoyed Eye of Terror. As a story it's quite good, just, as you say, a bit fast and loose with some of the background material

porkuslime wrote:eh.. not as such.. here is the info from the Lexicanum site..

Betcher's Gland
Phase 17: Consists of two identical glands, implanted either into the lower lip, alongside the salivary glands or into the hard palette. The gland works in a similar way to the poison gland of venomous reptiles by synthesizing and storing deadly poison, which the Marines themselves are immune to due to the gland's presence. This allows a Space Marine to spit a blinding contact poison. The poison is also corrosive and can even burn away strong metals given sufficient time.

Only that Black Templars have a defective Betcher gland not granting them that spit poison advantage (source: Deathguard Rulebook).
Still a case of stupid official background (reading like Chuck Norris facts ) and authors daring to use that stupid background.

Vaktathi wrote:. Space Marines are not in the chain of command of the Imperial Guard and can't just waltz in and bark orders and have officers arrested, and a tactical squad isn't going to kill *thousands* of Dark Eldar, and they certainly aren't going to send just one Space Marine after an unknown number of Dark Eldar raiders on an Imperial world.

I did think that the premise of that was kind of cool though (and to be fair, he was just reporting on whether or not more of a presence was needed, and it just so happened he could deal with them Stephen Seagal-style.