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Ulver wrote:

porkuslime wrote:evidently one of the Marine super organs turns their spittle into acid (which does not harm their stomachs)

Is that because stomachs are filled with acid?

Well, there is a bit of a difference in concentration between stomach acids and, say, acids used for chemical etching and similar. There's a reason that stuff is labeled "Do not drink."

Pretty much any non-Abnett? About the only other BL author I like is Sandy Mitchell, and even then the Ciaphas books need to be spread out...there is a limit to that humor, and the books really aren't that different from each other.

Although I did like Flight of the Eisenstein...hmmm. Might have to consider other James Swallow books.

Never been able to bring myself to pick up any of Gav Thorpe's stuff - hated his fluff in his army books.

Dakka warned me about CS 'Multilazors' Goto before I could fall for that particular trap.

Seeing as how the only non-Dan Abnett BL book I've read is Ben Counter's Grey Knights Omnibus, I'll go with that one.

I didn't think the writing was terrible though. I hate how her butchered the GK fluff, but honestly, I don't blame him.

A Grey Knight is supposed to have no personality outside of "Slay the Daemon, the Heretic, and the Xeno! Praise the Emperor!" Basically, the reason they can't be corrupted by Chaos is that there is nothing to corrupt. Their only personality is pure praise to the Emperor and hate for the Daemonic.

Kinda part to write a story about characters that have no personality...

So you tell me Dakka... would you rather have a Grey Knight novel about walking drones just going around sticking their swords into Daemons, or would you rather have a young, idealistic Grey Knight who defeats his enemies through friendship and the power of love?

If you ask me, writing a GK book is extremely difficult, if not impossible, so you have to shake things up somewhat. Counter's writing isn't what's bad. It isn't great, but it's his story, not his writing style, that I disliked.

Mine has to be tales of heresy, especially the last story about Mr Angry, I think I only enjoyed half of the stories in there.

I think it was Battle for Helsreach or something like that. Guardsmen, Black Templars, Orks. It should have been awesome but it was completely lame.

I just finished Helsreach. Loved it up to the last chapter... then it tanked. I just did not think that the way the book ended fit with the doom-n-gloom that they had tried to build to the whole novel.

porkuslime wrote:I just finished Helsreach. Loved it up to the last chapter... then it tanked. I just did not think that the way the book ended fit with the doom-n-gloom that they had tried to build to the whole novel.

The last payoff can be disheartening when the rest of the book can be so good.

I don't know if I was spoiled by first time, but I regard Ian Watson's Space Marine the best novel i've read set in the 40k universe, which unfortunately makes most of the others i've read pale in significance! I sadly found it really quite hard to get into the space wolves novels, and the dawn of war ones as well, I have actually tried to re-read them to see if I could find the love, but to no avail :-( I couldn't get far at all without being let down again!

I'm really struggling through Nemesis at the moment. Its the first Horus Heresy book I haven't been able to get into.

Glad I wan't the only one

Spear just made it drag, I see why he was in there but I didn't like it

All of the Sigmar books. Reads like a child's attempt to fluff LOTR: The Two Towers into a series of books, each less interesting than the last...

blackclaw1 wrote:Redemption corps by rob sanders is one of the worst book i've ever read , and i've read over a broad spectrum it has a wandering plot line , its not cohesively written and the dialogue is naff
I guess i sound really pretentious

'claw

Agree.

Thousand sons isn't that bad. You guys are crazy. That book took me on a journey through my freaking mind, man

nerdfest09 wrote:I don't know if I was spoiled by first time, but I regard Ian Watson's Space Marine the best novel i've read set in the 40k universe, which unfortunately makes most of the others i've read pale in significance! I sadly found it really quite hard to get into the space wolves novels, and the dawn of war ones as well, I have actually tried to re-read them to see if I could find the love, but to no avail :-( I couldn't get far at all without being let down again!

Going from Space Marine to Dawn of War is possibly the biggest jump you could make from good to bad (well not bad as in badly written, but just 'tedious run of the mill') !

I loved Thousand Sons as well, the ending totally blew my mind, quite possibly the most tragic story in the Heresy so far and a reminder of the core concepts of what 40k is about.

The Inquisition War omnibus makes my eyes bleed. Ian Watson was a fluff rapist beyond the pale.

Grey knight books

I mean, the first one wasn't that bad
the second one was bad
the third one, words cannot describe

Did not like Brothers of the Snake. While actual writing by Abnett is fine, the stories are rather silly. Sending a single Space Marine, a warrior trained to live and die as part of a unit, to deal with a Dark Eldar incursion on a world? A single Tactical Squad kills *thousands* of Dark Eldar in a single battle? Space Marines giving Imperial Guard officers direct orders and having commanders arrested? Pure gak.

I haven't been able to get through the Battle for the Abyss, it's rather slow.

That said, Dead Men Walking is my new almost favorite 40k novel right after the Inquisition War trilogy (for those that have a problem with its fluff, keep in mind it was written during the Rogue Trader days, before even 2nd Edition, when the fluff was a lot different).

Khestra the Unbeheld wrote:The Inquisition War omnibus makes my eyes bleed. Ian Watson was a fluff rapist beyond the pale.

Uh no most of the fluff he used is the Rogue Trader fluff thats why the Squats are running around. They don't fit well with the more recent stuff true but its fairly accurate. Personally my favourite are the Caiaphas Cain series altohugh Abnett and William King produce good stuff. I absolutely hated Vermintide any good idea the author had had been ripped off either Skavenslayer or Daemonslayer....

Vaktathi wrote:

That said, Dead Men Walking is my new almost favorite 40k novel right after the Inquisition War trilogy (for those that have a problem with its fluff, keep in mind it was written during the Rogue Trader days, before even 2nd Edition, when the fluff was a lot different).

Absolutely, bare in mind that most of the background didn't exist when those books were written, and a lot of new boundaries were created with both those books and Space Marine were written. Some of it has become established, and some of it hasn't (Chaos Squats riding ambulls! ) which is why it might seem out of step.

Although, Khestra, you were not alone in your opinion of that and for years the Ian Watson books went un-republished during the mid-90's and generally were viewed as some kind of heretical verse that should not be spoken about let alone read. I once heard a story of a girl who was out shopping (keep with me here! ) - there was a sudden downpour of rain, and walking past a shop she reconised a GW shop window as some things she had been familiar with as a younger child (painted models etc.) She went into the store (partly for shelter) and said, and when quizzed by the redshirt said "hey, my dad used to write about these things". It turned out her Dad was Ian Watson, when the redshirt heard this he kicked her out of the store and back out into the rain. No joke.

Warrior Coven by C. S. Goto. I only have one eye now because of this book, I clawed it out to make the pain stop.

Wine of Dreams.....

Kroothawk wrote: And Path of the Warrior fields not a single Space marine IIRC. And Eisenhorn, Ravenor, Gaunt's Ghosts and Ciaphas Caine are quite safe as well.

Hmm, technically Path of the Warrior does have Space Marines, as does Ciaphas's latest installment but they die quite nicely, and have quite a secondary role in Cain, (they are just faceless enemies to be chainsawed down by the Eldar in PoW) so the entire thing people fear about Space Marines being ridiculously over-powered (which is what I personally like about them) does not come into it. Path of the Warrior is *awesome* and I don't use that word often.

Bad things? Hmm, I seem, by pure chance, have evaded all or most of the 'hated books' mentioned in this thread so far, I would say that the people who took over from Bill King on the Gotrek+Felix and Space Wolves books did a rubbish job compared to WK himself, but still passably good. Ravenor got worse as the series progressed, but I have a thing about reading novels, I always finish a book I've started (well, except for Eldest, sequel to Eragon, but that was truly, truly pants), so I've never put down a BL book halfway through and never gone back to it. Warrior Priest by David Hinks was a pretty weak book as I recall, and a fantastic reason for me not to return to these 'compilation series' like the Empire Army books. I liked Descent of Angels mind you and Flight of Eisenstein, granted, not as good as say, Legion, but it will be only slightly below the first trio of Garviel Loken books in my opnion. Not gonna compare it to First Heretic, haven't read it, wanna read Thousand Sons/ Prospero Burns first, but will, as everyone ever and their mother say First Heretic is awesome and must be read.

It's kinda hard for me to find any BL books I didn't actually like, but Zombieslayer was certainly a dull slog for large parts of the book. The fact that Felix is now sleeping with a girl first introduced in Trollslayer at age 8 (now 15 years later) is slightly ... disturbing as well. But it could be worse, he could have killed Gotrek off. I am honestly having trouble thinking of things I haven't liked. I tend to go for the popular ones as a better chance of being a better investment money-wise, which is probably the reason I've never gone for a lot of the 'rubbish' books. Are the Night Lords books any good?

99MDeery wrote:I mean a dreadnought that allows an Impy Guardsmen to craft a multilaser on his arm....clearly you didnt research your source material did you mate??

That was something suggested by, so naturally approved of, by editorial at the time. Mate.

Please let the dead rest in peace. Instead of posting in a thread nearly one year old, go ahead and start a new one.

Thanks!