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I have opinions galore on this game.

Part 1: factions

A WoW alliance vs horde style system would only work if they limited the playable races to the imperium vs chaos. In my opinion this is the only way to keep us fans happy cause as soon as you have an ork allied with anything you have us nerds getting all sweaty and shouting and lets keep that confined to tournament weekends okay? Down side of this mode lis not everyone gets to play their favorite race and as soon as you shoehorn another race in with "Order" and "destruction" you have Sweaty nerd syndrome

One race per faction would be more lore correct as it would seal off each race in their own little Xenophobic worlds where the only communication between factions is through the sights of your bolter. Major problem with this model is the fact that you would need, something like 9 seperate factions which would be almost impossible to balance and control.

I like the idea of having everyone in one group. That way you can let the playerbase make their own factions. Hardline Imperium players over here and they don't like the devout eldar players over there but then you might have the inbetweeners factions of the eldar/imperium/tau that tolerate each other to the point of alienating their own races hardliners.

One big problem is the fanatical hatred that is everywhere in 40K. Having that hatred translate to an mmorpg is a torrent of forum complaints of this marine player overplaying the hatred of that eldar player waiting to happen.

more musings to come...

=I=

Karon wrote:Fiscal Year 2012, I'm sure he means as they have stated before. This could very well be in Q1 2013.

Well that sucks, we will all be dead by then, polar shifts and all.

Zenarius wrote:I have opinions galore on this game.

Part 1: factions

cause as soon as you have an ork allied with anything you have us nerds getting all sweaty and shouting and lets keep that confined to tournament weekends okay?

I dont get this. Are you saying its unfluffy for Orks to ally with anything? They have many times. Infact Ive heard of stories of certain Imperials "using" the Orks for war as well. Orks will fight for anything and with anything as long as they are fighting and killing.

If thats not what you meant, then please explain more?

I'm in no way saying that it is unfluffy for Orks to ally with any other race. What i am saying is that it is VERY unfluffy for Orks to be in a permanent alliance with several other races.

So lets lcompaire to the warcraft universe for a second. For the past 5-10 years the orcs, trolls, tauren, blood elves and now the goblins are in a happy little family. Does anyone really see the orks, dark eldar and Forces of Chaos in the same long term situation?

"In the 41st millenium there is only war" I would really llike to see the folks at vigil to keep that statement in the front of their minds. This is why i really like the free for all one faction model it allows the warmongers to attack anyone they see fit to and it lets the diplomats create alliances where they see fit. I see a game universe that is constantly in motion with players determining what side they are on due to their actions not a choice made on the character selection screen.

^
I'm definitely liking this idea.

And what was annoyng about wow was being unable to speak to the enemy, so annoying.

I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

Wait a minute...

Hands up who else can spot the guy that just basically said his idea for one faction where everyone can fight and communicate with everyone else isn't going to work, cause i sure can.

Well it definitely didn't come out on March 4...

For an example of the many faction system at work, you could take a look at EVE Online. There are 3 factions in the game, true, but the players are not strictly affiliated with them. You would start in the "safe" computer controlled area and then as you gain weapons, ships, etc. move out into the uncontrolled area and ally yourself with a "company," which works similarly to a guild, but you can create space stations and the like to solidify your territory.

Its a system that really impresses me and seems to work quite well. However, it would need a lot of tweaking to fit into the 40k universe.

honestly it should work more like Shadowbane where everyone is hostile to everyone and then you can make your own alliances in game.

frankly the idea of mixed races in a party really doesnt fit in the 40K universe, it really didn't make much sence in WAR either. if they were to allow mixed race groups i would hope they would give a bonus to groups that are all the same race. that would only work if each race had access to the same basic classes.

samusaran253 wrote:Well it definitely didn't come out on March 4...

Of course not. It wasn't going to; it's going to come out in late 2012/early 2013.

As to the "mixed races" bit...

In Warhammer Fantasy it works perfectly fine in terms of fluff.
Orcs go where the fight is. Dark Elves manipulate everyone. Tzeentch doesn't really care, so long as his schemes are set in fruition.

The High Elves, Empire, and Dwarfs have had ancient compacts to come to each other's defense, so it's no real problem there.

What we're likely to see in DMO is something akin to the 13th Black Crusade.

Certain factions, like the Eldar and Imperium, will ignore their differences in the face of a larger threat--Chaos and the Orks. Who, again, do fight alongside Chaos forces--provided the promise of a Big Fight and Shiny Things.

I love the idea of guilds and factions being player driven. It leaves the system open to wonderful little situations like a Puritan guild being infiltrated by chaos aligned spies and creating a schisim and all kinds of hoo haa. I hate that artificial wall that is put up between factions in so many games it makes what could be a wonderfully grey area that is open to interesting situations between different charcters into a boring black and whiite world. 40K should should be a really xenophobic world but that Xenophobia means nothing if it is enforced in a way that says "these are your friends here and those are your enemy over there" player need to make that decision for themselves.

Offcourse, if a guardsmen were to even mention siding with something else the pc would be insta-gibbed.

All i want is to be able to rule a craft world as a sort of quild leader, have my own fleet, and space battles would be very nice if they decide to put them in there. I would want my craft world to be sort of home for all of the members of my "Guild" and i would think that that would be perfect.

P.S. Riding in Jet bike would be awsome!!!

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

it is to prevent grief and also prevent "tea parties" between factions

your only options are to fight or run away, you cant socialize with them.

Grundz wrote:

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

it is to prevent grief and also prevent "tea parties" between factions

your only options are to fight or run away, you cant socialize with them.

You can dance with them. I've gotten a few cross faction dance parties going.

More information on "Tea Parties?" I figure it is different factions letting each other steamroll events and achievments but clarification would be awesome.

I see griefing as a potentially massive problem in DMO. I will be a marine, I will be a staunch member of the Adeptus Astartes that will bring the Holy light of the emperor to the dark reccesses of the Sargos sector and burn with holy Fury those that try to undermine or oppose the Holy emperors name. (I'm also hoping they have RP servers for fluff Zellots like myself in case you hadn't guessed)

Now If I'm asked to fight allongside eldar forces that the imperium has decided they need to "temporarily work with" for a "greater good" then this little geneticlly enhanced superhuman that has forgone his own humanity to protect the rest of humanity and protect it from (say it with me folks) The alien, the mutant and the heretic, is not going to be terribly happy with the situation.

These "Tea Parties" you are talking about went on in the guild I was in on Twisting Nether, which was RPPVP in WoW.

We had a Alliance and Horde parts, and would coordinate strikes on the enemies on the guild on both factions. We would smuggle goods over, and generally just break the rules of the game in an RP fashion. We have many, many GM's telling us to stop, but they really couldn't do anything. Since we were using Ventrillo to communicate cross-faction, it wasn't technically against the rules.

It can happen if you are dedicated enough.

Zenarius wrote:I reckon the lack of communication between the factions in WOW is more of a measure to minimise verbal abuse between players that you can actually fight gank and grief all the time.

Wait a minute...

Hands up who else can spot the guy that just basically said his idea for one faction where everyone can fight and communicate with everyone else isn't going to work, cause i sure can.

Did I say that?

I was refering to myself with that remark a few posts ago. No criticisms aimed at anyone but myself.

I think Race/faction/class is going to be a very hot topic in the lead up to DMO. The success/failiure of Star Wars: The Old Republic and it's attemps at class balance will be very interesting to look at. Both universes have certain classes (Jedi/Marines) that are fluff wise much more powerful than others (troopers/guardsmen) If Bioware can stop everyone from rolling jedi/sith DMO has a chance (and obviously so does SWTOR)

What they need to do really is have marines as one person, then someone playing as IG is a squad sergeant, and every few levels gets a new squad member. Helps balance things out I think, 5 guardsmen in carboard armour equal to a space marine at the same same level? Fair i think.

Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

happydude wrote:Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

Yeah, I don't want that. At all. I want a fluffy MMO that has great gameplay. I don't care about the WoW players.

Many, many people care about the fluff, including myself. GW does need to approve it, and they won't approve anything that is fething stupid. They made the guys who were doing Space Marine re-do it because they originally had bolters just stunning guys and not doing any damage.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:Who cares about fluff? As long as they come out with a great title in terms of gameplay and not some rehashed WoW clone I am all for it! What people fail to realize is that this all needs GW approval, you know... the guys who write the fluff? And as the guys who write the fluff are their words not what makes the warhammer universe run? So if they decide that Eldar convert to nurgle and Necrons have a change of heart and hand out flowers instead of bullets then why would people complain? Either way, the forums will always be crammed with angst filled neckbeards who have nothing better to do than point out flaws in a game that they lack the intellect or drive to create but at the end of the day will still play the game anyway. Not a personal attack on anyone here, just my two cents. I'm sure 98% of WoW players couldn't care less about the story background anyway and the numbers rose just fine.

Yeah, I don't want that. At all. I want a fluffy MMO that has great gameplay. I don't care about the WoW players.

Many, many people care about the fluff, including myself. GW does need to approve it, and they won't approve anything that is fething stupid. They made the guys who were doing Space Marine re-do it because they originally had bolters just stunning guys and not doing any damage.

That's not entirely true.

They didn't "make the guys who were doing Space Marine" re-do anything. The game passed hands from the people originally doing it, over to THQ/Relic.

Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

The issue with player run factions is that Ultrasmurf X can shoot and murder Ultrasmurf Y since X's player's a tool and a greifer. In character the smurfs wouldn't turn on each other unless subverted by chaos or somrthing.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Yeah, they won't let anything fly now--but still, that specific instance had nothing to do with GW and everything to do with the original developers getting acquired by THQ/Relic.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

happydude the point of a 40k mmo is to have a 40k mmo. The hardcore and even noob 40k fans out there will agree, who gives a s**t about the gameplay if its exactly like 40k from every aspect. Yeh gameplay is a major contributing fact but fluff is what sets it apart. Really I don't care about gameplay if the fluff is correct.

crimsonfist832 wrote:happydude the point of a 40k mmo is to have a 40k mmo. The hardcore and even noob 40k fans out there will agree, who gives a s**t about the gameplay if its exactly like 40k from every aspect. Yeh gameplay is a major contributing fact but fluff is what sets it apart. Really I don't care about gameplay if the fluff is correct.

Wow really? You don't care about the gameplay... as long as the fluff is correct?

Can't believe I'm hearing anyone say "don't care about gameplay".

Game will totally flop if the gameplay is bad, even if all the fluff is correct, just fyi. People usually play games for the gameplay, and while correct fluff is good, it isn't as important, imo, and I'm sure many other people who play games.

But seriously, this is silly. Vigil will surely do their best to adhere to fluff, but some concessions will likely need to be made for balance/gameplay.