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I don't think the devs are saying what you all think, there have been records of Tau and Eldar siding with SM, but even if they did in the end they fought each other to find a predominant race/army. Same goes with CSM and Orks, they have allied but would then crush one another after their enemy is dead. I don't think the Forces of Order and Destruction are going to be as closely knit as the WAR versions, but rather alliances on the balance of destruction, so, even though you may find Eldar in Order you can probably count on having to fight them in pvp or rvr, something like that. And, please, whoever keeps saying deldar, don't say it, its annoying.

Chrysaor686 wrote:I've said this before, many times.

This could've been squad-based, as well as based on the existing points system for the tabletop game (your allotted points = your level), and every single race (as well as every single unit) would've been viable. Fill out the low pop races with NPCs, and every single race could've also been it's own faction.

Instead, they had to use WoW as a template. This game is going to fail so hard it isn't even funny. All you hopefulls make me chuckle.

Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Karon wrote:What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Obviously, you give a flying feth, or you wouldn't be over-reacting so readily.

The main reason that I wish that the game was squad-based is to make every aspect of 40k viable, instead of limiting players to a select few classes and races. If you could play as a squad, you could use literally any unit in the game, no problem (aside from maybe Titans and the like). Limiting people to a single character just doesn't make any sense in terms of balance, especially considering just how powerful some single units can be. Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

How do I know it isn't squad-based? It's fairly easy to tell from the trailer and various interviews that in it's current form, it's not. Besides, limiting the number of races kind of destroys the purpose behind that anyway. It simply becomes a fething Space Marine simulator, like so many other 40k-based games.

Where are my Tyranids? My Witch Hunters? Necrons? Limiting my options like that simply isn't an accurate or satisfying representation of 40k. Just because you're happy with your options doesn't mean that I have to be.

"There’s two layers to an MMO. There’s the upper layer, which is progression, merchants, getting abilities and all that kind of stuff, and we have some twists and turns in there but for the most part it’ll be quite similar to the other MMOs out there."

You know what that says to me? "WoW clone". Even if the combat ends up being drastically different from most MMOs, that still doesn't really matter. To be 'like most other MMOs', in any sense, you must use WoW as a template. I have a severe problem with that.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Confirmed at being over quite a few planets.

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Karon wrote:What the feth are you whining about? When have they ever said that any of this bs? That it wasn't going to be squad-based?

Stop pulling gak out of your ass. Nobody gives a flying feth if all you're going to say is "Oh, this game will fail because of XXX"

There has been an interview or two saying that there will be several planets, IIRC, btw.

Obviously, you give a flying feth, or you wouldn't be over-reacting so readily.

The main reason that I wish that the game was squad-based is to make every aspect of 40k viable, instead of limiting players to a select few classes and races. If you could play as a squad, you could use literally any unit in the game, no problem (aside from maybe Titans and the like). Limiting people to a single character just doesn't make any sense in terms of balance, especially considering just how powerful some single units can be. Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

How do I know it isn't squad-based? It's fairly easy to tell from the trailer and various interviews that in it's current form, it's not. Besides, limiting the number of races kind of destroys the purpose behind that anyway. It simply becomes a fething Space Marine simulator, like so many other 40k-based games.

Where are my Tyranids? My Witch Hunters? Necrons? Limiting my options like that simply isn't an accurate or satisfying representation of 40k. Just because you're happy with your options doesn't mean that I have to be.

"There’s two layers to an MMO. There’s the upper layer, which is progression, merchants, getting abilities and all that kind of stuff, and we have some twists and turns in there but for the most part it’ll be quite similar to the other MMOs out there."

You know what that says to me? "WoW clone". Even if the combat ends up being drastically different from most MMOs, that still doesn't really matter. To be 'like most other MMOs', in any sense, you must use WoW as a template. I have a severe problem with that.

You are funny.

You're saying all these outrageous assumptions from two TRAILERS. Not gameplay trailers, just a trailer.

"Yeah, fairly easy to tell from the trailer"

What about the 4 guardsmen? What about the space marines standing next to eachother?

You don't know gak about the game just like none of us do.

None of your "tyranids, necrons, and witch hunters" have been shown yet, because the game is roughly two years away.

Where do you draw the line? Players obviously won't be able to attain the most powerful of units, and the weakest units certainly aren't going to be playable. They could've been, though.

Yeah, it could've been. Even though the game isn't going to be released for another TWO fething YEARS

winnertakesall wrote:

Chrysaor686 wrote:

Soladrin wrote:Yes because having every single race on a single planet makes sense.

Who said that it had to be a single planet? That's definitely selling the 40k universe short. This isn't Fantasy we're talking about. Hell, if DMO takes place on a single planet in it's current incarnation, I'll laugh my ass off.

Even if that was the case (which it definitely shouldn't be), I would much rather have every single race battling over a single planet than be limited to a select few races (with an idiotic good/evil faction system that forces races that wouldn't have anything to do with each other to team up) and a single character.

Because alienating over half of your player base, letting players go solo in the middle of a battlefield, fething over the fluff completely by operating under the same loot-centric themepark game structure as WoW, and completely screwing any sense of balance the game might've had makes perfect sense.

The way they're going is definitely doing more to break the lore in my eyes. Why would you complain about having options?

Confirmed at being over quite a few planets.

My bad then I thought I read/heard somewhere that it was just one planet with orbital hubs.

Soldarin you've obviously read something different or wrong then, no offence . For a 40k mmorpg you would expect a sector of some sort, and, hopefully a large one at that. Also, if space combat and space travel aboard battle barges, strike cruisers and such was possible this game is going to own.

Yeah, I wonder how they will travel? I am thinking space combat........

Boarding actions would be amazing, if you could use Caestus Assault-Rams to blow a hole in the side of an Ork Kill Krooza, assuming they are in DMO, my head will explode

crimsonfist832 wrote:Boarding actions would be amazing, if you could use Caestus Assault-Rams to blow a hole in the side of an Ork Kill Krooza, assuming they are in DMO, my head will explode

MIND EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!

I hope there are actually battles, my only worry is that it will try to be like wow, although the fact it appears to be a sort of shooter may add something different

Yeh, the shooter element will keep this apart from other mmorpg's and you'd think that with a game like 40k online there would be pvp in space

Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

winnertakesall wrote:Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

you're making the assumption there will be levels

Grundz wrote:

winnertakesall wrote:Although the problem you would have there is just loads of high level players blockading certain routes, making it impossible to travel

you're making the assumption there will be levels

+1

I wanna be a commissar. I hope you can be one

DMO should be made like a combination of Planet Entropia, Star Wars Galaxies and Planetside.

PE had a really nice shooting system where headshots were crits, arm shots were disarms and leg shots slowed your enemy. it was pretty nice having benefits for hitting specific locations rather than spam rounds and hope you hit something.

SWG had loads of stuff to do, like exploring, faction missions, crafting and even totally weird stuff like cooking or dancing... but it gave all types of gamers something to do. i think a tech-marine should be able to make weapons or atleast improve basic ones, apocatharies should be able to heal in battle or make heal kits. etc. stuff like this gives you a purpose in battle and when you are interacting with the other players.

Planetside took many 40k related things and put them in a FPS MMO. Terminator armor, check; drop pods, check; titans, check. they did create a really nice way for players to level up and experience everything in the game. instead of stats you got skill points that you could spend on training your character. they were used for armor, weapons, special equipment and vehicles.

so i think you would start as a neophyte and then get a few skill points to buy scout armor and a shot gun and then a sniper rifle, eventually you could get tactical armor and choose for a jump pack and weapons kit or a bolter kit or a heavy weapon kit. and eventually down the road you would get terminator armor.

you would also be able to spend points on piloting a rhino or a speeder or a bike.

just some of my thoughts of things that worked and were cool in other games that would really work and make a 40k mmo fun.

The above would be a fun way to go at it. I really just hope that your class makes sense. Meaning, if your an apothecary, then your main focus is on healing your group and maybe doing some supporting fire. Where as in WoW, healers can strait kick your ASS in a PvP. Wait, Im a super badass Ork warrior with incredibly expensive magical armor, and I literally look like a tank on 2 feet. Your wearing a see through gown..............yet here I am, picking my teeth up off the ground.


Again, really hope the classes make sense.

KingCracker wrote:The above would be a fun way to go at it. I really just hope that your class makes sense. Meaning, if your an apothecary, then your main focus is on healing your group and maybe doing some supporting fire. Where as in WoW, healers can strait kick your ASS in a PvP. Wait, Im a super badass Ork warrior with incredibly expensive magical armor, and I literally look like a tank on 2 feet. Your wearing a see through gown..............yet here I am, picking my teeth up off the ground.


Again, really hope the classes make sense.

See, I think that makes sense. In WoW, a healer wins through attrition. You may be a walking tank, but they can deflect or simply heal any damage you happen to do to them while keeping a constant stream of damage from damage over time effects on you. It's really the only way a healer can be competitive in 1v1, and make sense. In a group PvP setting, they're doing exactly what you want the Apothecary to do, healing and giving some supporting effects and damage.

Besides, mages wear the 'see-through gown' as well, and their fireballs would literally roast you alive inside the armor.

That said, I hope the classes make sense as well.

The problem with that though, is at best a healer should be doing support damage, not pounding the hell out of a class that is designed to be out front getting his head kicked in. Now a MAGE beating the piss out of a tank makes sense, not a healer. That was one thing that annoyed the hell out of me in WoW. Youd get PVP healers and the like in an instance and instead of you know, doing their JOB, they would go out and try to do the damage instead and totaly feth up the group. Thats why I hope the classes make sense. Allowing a healing class to do that, messes up the flow in group matches. And that really goes for any class, when you allow them (I mainly think WoW just did it because they were scrambling to keep people paying) to do things that is not natural for said class, it just kills the flow of the game.

KingCracker wrote:The problem with that though, is at best a healer should be doing support damage, not pounding the hell out of a class that is designed to be out front getting his head kicked in. Now a MAGE beating the piss out of a tank makes sense, not a healer. That was one thing that annoyed the hell out of me in WoW. Youd get PVP healers and the like in an instance and instead of you know, doing their JOB, they would go out and try to do the damage instead and totaly feth up the group. Thats why I hope the classes make sense. Allowing a healing class to do that, messes up the flow in group matches. And that really goes for any class, when you allow them (I mainly think WoW just did it because they were scrambling to keep people paying) to do things that is not natural for said class, it just kills the flow of the game.

Someone who's a specced healer can only do support damage at best.

Smite priests and all other forms of DPS specs (Shadow, Elemental, Boomkin etc.) are specced to do damage, with the ability to throw a heal if needed, and most healing from those specs is horrific at best, and horribly mana inefficient. People going in and attempting to deal damage while supposed to be healing, well, I never ran into that as I queued heals, but I can imagine if they can't actually do it it would be quite bad. I believe many saw players like myself who ridiculously outgeared the content and thus would queue heals as a caster DPS spec, then drop a heal as needed....but it only works when both the healer and the tank are vastly overgeared for the instance.

Believe me, as someone who played an Elemental/Resto shaman, the difference is so noticeable. Same gear and Lightning Bolts that would be doing 10k+ would hit for 4k, which was piss all back in WotLK, but especially is so now. Used to cry geek tears watching Lava Burst hit for 7k.

---

Is the problem that you see that people that are specced heals can do damage you think isn't proportional, or that classes you believe are healing classes (Priests, shaman etc.) can spec into competitive damage with the ability to throw a piss-poor heal if needed?

Maybe Im just close minded when it comes to things like this. To me, a healer should be a healer. When I used to play WoW, it seemed like everytime we would get a "healer" it was some assclown that was a shadow priest that chose healing as well. And instead of half ass healing, would just ignore the role he chose and try to impress with his shadow magic.

Make a class that does what it should do, it doesnt muddy up things like instances like I mentioned.

I liked models that allowed a class to fill more than one role, primarily because it allows two things:

- Taking people, rather than class. If your group has 3 healers, but can only use one, 2 can go DPS and all is fixed.

- Not having to reroll simply because you got bored of healing. It happens to all after long enough unless you do something else, and then you get bored of the game and leave.

I don't think having a class be 'heals' and nothing else is a great approach, obviously. I do think that people should actually fill the role they're taken for though. If you're a healer in a group, you heal, and use supporting abilities.

With your model, in the interest of fairness, should you not be able to do anything but tank if you're a tanking class? If so, isn't the variety of the game going down going to make the game feel...less exciting I suppose. I like finding out what I'm against, and having to build strategies on the fly.

KingCracker wrote:Maybe Im just close minded when it comes to things like this. To me, a healer should be a healer. When I used to play WoW, it seemed like everytime we would get a "healer" it was some assclown that was a shadow priest that chose healing as well. And instead of half ass healing, would just ignore the role he chose and try to impress with his shadow magic.

What would you say about games which don't actually have proper healers, like City of Heroes/Villains?

No, defenders aren't healers. Corrupters sure as hell aren't either.

In fact, though the game's community is second to none, most people will probably mock you for asking for a healer or assume you're a noob coming over from some lesser game like WoW. "Empathy", the "healing" power set, is one of the weakest in the game. Personally I'd rather have a bubble or a radiation defender. FEAR THE BUBBLER OF DOOM.

Ive never played city of heros/villains, so I cant comment on that at all sadly.



I do see your point VBP, I guess I just get completely annoyed by people that dont understand the concept of their roles. I can honestly count on 1 hand, the times, in any MMO mind you, that I have had a group of people that just rocked together and everyone did what they should. In any other situation, we would have someone come in as a "healer" and instead of healing, they just wanted to score as much damage as possible, and totally ignore the group. Im sure if any of you have played an MMO, you know how incredibly frustrating that gak gets.

Eh, that's part of why I liked CoH/CoV so much back in the years I played it. Every class save blasters had adequate self-heal powers, and even blasters had easy to obtain healing inspirations and enough DPS that a team of blasters could still, when planning a mission out right, accomplish hard missions without losses.

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/33425/THQ_Dark_Millennium_Costs_In_50M_Range_uDraw_Projections_Up_To_17M.php

THQ executive vice president and CFO Paul Pucino said the company is projecting costs in the $50 million range to get its first MMO, the Warhammer-licensed Dark Millennium, to market in 2012, putting the title's development budget at "the high end of a core game," he said.

Thats about all the info in the article, but at least we know what they are putting into the project.

Any news is good news. Even though we already knew it was going to be 2012

Fiscal Year 2012, I'm sure he means as they have stated before. This could very well be in Q1 2013.