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I'm not exactly saying I don't care about gameplay AT ALL, ofc not, I do want a good playing game but I'd rather it be fluffy than better gameplay if you can understand what I mean.

crimsonfist832 wrote:I'm not exactly saying I don't care about gameplay AT ALL, ofc not, I do want a good playing game but I'd rather it be fluffy than better gameplay if you can understand what I mean.

I completely understand where you are coming from but I feel that a 40k RPG series would be PERFECT for that and I would love to play it. As far as an MMO well I have friends of mine who find the tabetop game to be the biggest waste of time yet when they looked at the game videos fell in love almost immediately! Gears of war style mmo featuring the cream of the crop from the 40k universe? COUNT ME IN! But hell yes I want to run my farseer whilst my friends guardsman cover me and the tau firewarrior flanks with the marine. Who cares about fluff as long as it is FUN!!! FUN> fluff anyday. And who knows? This may very well be what gets your non gamer friends into the tabletop and I can bet it wont be the corpse on the golden toilet's super soldiers battle creed and history that lures them in.

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

Many games have pathetic fluff and yet become great titles. God of War is a HUGE example of a game with a lackluster story and yet the gameplay was what kept people coming back for more. How often in mmo's do you sit there and read every piece text and lit? And to tell you the truth the 40k fluff isn't exactly the best piece of fluff/sci-fi material out there. See you seem to be missing one very small point, that people like you are too few in number for any developers to even care about and I am glad for that. Go read the books if you want fluff. The mmo will be geared towards the masses whether you like it or not and no amount of complaining will alter that fact because money talks my friend. And as far as the engine... well the game engine is not what is debated right now. I speak of the options to toss tau fighting alongside marine and Dark Eldar fighting alongside the forces of Khorne. Want to know why that would be great? because it would be fun! Make new kinds of bolters! new weaponry all across the board! And as big of a fan as you seem to be I doubt changes like that would keep you from playing anyway.


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Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Since it seemed to elude you what I said was GW are the guys who write the fluff, but selective reading can have it's benefits at times I suppose. As far as fluff head on over to the black library and grab some of the novels because gameplay will be what sells this title to the masses who care nothing for this niche games history. As a buff I can see where you're coming from however realize that unless it is an RPG (NOT an mmorpg) the story matters very little to the majority of gamers. Gamers as in video gamers and not the tabletop players, and even then its 50/50 at best for fluff. The masses are the target for this title, not the few who paint up their minis, and even if 10% of those tabletop players avoid the game entirely due to a nerd rage, they know that they will still sell those people models and paint so it matters little. If the gameplay suffers and they slap the majority of the effort into fluff and avoid anything non canon then they satisfy the very small minority of people like yourself and those you know and lose tons of money to the mmo's that focus on gameplay.

Wait, so, you're saying you don't care about the fluff?

You do realize that without the 40K fluff, this might as well be another WoW clone, right? The fluff matters very much so, and this game, as Vigil has said before, doesn't need a million subscribers to be a huge success. They don't have to make up a new engine or anything for the game, as they are using the Darksiders engine.

MMORPG is a RPG on a massive scale. Its not an FPS.

I do realize that Gameplay is priority, but without the fluff and background that gives the game its shape, it is gak. They go hand in hand.

And fyi, mmo's since Ultima have about as much to do with true rpg's as most fps games these days anyway, take that from a programmer/developers point of view, but something tells me I'm wasting my breath anyway.
As long as no innovations or great ideas get pushed aside due to fluff then by all means include it up the wazoo with a library in every major city full of it.

Indeed, Gameplay is the priority. And yes, I will be playing this game regardless of what it is, I'll play it because its Warhammer.

Yes, I am in the minority, I just want the fluff to be correct. I don't want bolters to just stun for example, lol.

I do hope the game has a story though, a game needs a background for it to differentiate it from other generic MMO's that follow the Sci-Fi genre.

"Gameplay" isn't really the priority.

Accessibility is.

They want it to be able to run on the same kind of machines that can run WoW--namely: almost every PC out there, made within the past decade

I think that we can all agree that DMO Needs a balance between fluff and gameplay. If the gameplay is perfectly executed then you have the masses on side and a good player base to start with. Over the top of that gameplay there needs to be a nice layer of fluff for the lore nerds like myself to read all the quest text and talk to the npc's to get the backstory on why we are doing what we are doing in this sector/planet.

I even don't mind if the game is divided into a two sided universe with order and destruction as the opposing forces. as long as there is still guld/corporation support then all will be well as it still allows myself and likeminded players to start up communities that can be as fluffily xenophobic as we want them to be. That is unless we get screwed over on the race/class/spec combinations (ie marines not having access to a healing class)

If a marine can spec as an apotheacary but then heal an Eldar player with their narethcium/reductor then the lore nerd in me will be unhappy but at the same we need to be making a working game first and foremost

Heh...

Eldar tank: Heal me!!!

Marine Apothecary: Are you sure dude? This may not go well organ/reductor interface wise...

Eldar tank: Shut up and heal me lore nerd!!!

Marine Apothecary: allrighty then... so... maybe this prong to this part of your abdomen?... ummm

(slice, squish, crunch)

Marine Apothecary: ooh, now this can't be right

Eldar tank: aaaaaggghhhh!!!

(your group has wiped)

Karon you aren't in the minority, there will be loads of fans who want it fluffy and yeh you play it because it's Warhammer 40k and yes Zenarius DMO will need one hell of a balance between gameplay and fluff. I tried the WoW trial recently and it was alright up until the point you get fed up with questing and questing and questing and now that WAR is utterly dead I have no Warhammer mmo. Hopefully there can be some devs sent from god himself this time around and they'll make a game that is perfect in balance and fluff about one of the greatest universe's ever imagined.

Zenarius wrote:

Heh...

Eldar tank: Heal me!!!

Marine Apothecary: Are you sure dude? This may not go well organ/reductor interface wise...

Eldar tank: Shut up and heal me lore nerd!!!

Marine Apothecary: allrighty then... so... maybe this prong to this part of your abdomen?... ummm

(slice, squish, crunch)

Marine Apothecary: ooh, now this can't be right

Eldar tank: aaaaaggghhhh!!!

(your group has wiped)

Just be glad the medic wasnt a Painboy. THEN things would be getting interesting

Oy?! Stop yer whinin umie......Ya dun need dat part anywayz.......er.....wuz it dat part ya dun need? *scratches head*

winnertakesall wrote:What they need to do really is have marines as one person, then someone playing as IG is a squad sergeant, and every few levels gets a new squad member. Helps balance things out I think, 5 guardsmen in carboard armour equal to a space marine at the same same level? Fair i think.

The only place that DMO is going to struggle in race balance is open world pvp. Race balance for instanced pvp and pve can be dealt with by simply copying 40K and using point values for wargear depending on race.

(please note i'm using the following numbers completley off the top of my head so don't take the numbers as set in stone

Example:

Space marine (base cost no gear): 15 pts

power armour: 10 pts

Artificier armour: 20 pts

Bolter: 10 pts

Chainsword: 5 pts

Etc

Guardsman (base cost no gear): 3 pts

Flak armour: 2 pts

carapace armour: 5 pts

lasgun: 5 pts

bolter: 7 pts

etc

So every piece of wargear and equipment has a points cost (you will notice that the bolter for a marine is more expensive than for a guardsman to factor in better base accuracy, speed of reloading, whatever)


So now we have points costs on every race and all the wargear weapons accessories they can equip. The pvp and pve encounters then just need appropriate points values attached to them. Lets say 200 points for a standard pve dungeon or small pvp skirmish perhaps 1000 points for a large scale battle/siege/raid. So each member of the group can use a portion of the points to gear themselves from their personal armoury. The points allowances can be a defult amount or the leader of the group could set each players points pool. This way the leader can decide if the grop is going to be 20 guardsmen tricked out or 30 guardsmen with nothing but flak armour and lasguns or 3 of the beardeyest marines ever seen or one geared marine with 10 geared guardsmen.

The point is that each of these forces will cost the same amount of points so will be on a level playing field

So to Play devils advocate there are to problems with this idea:

1: The whole thing falls apart in open world encounters since the one beardy marine will be hanging out in lower goldspire (see what i did there?...) and thinking he is awesome for beating up a single guardsman.

2: 30 players doing anything successfully is a logistical nightmare. 30 players doing something that 3 of them could be doing on their own? even to me it seem unlikeley (that being said "level 1 hogger raid pst for invite")

squads of guardsmen controlled by one player seems un-elegant to me but it might be the solution in th end.

I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I disntinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codecs...


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AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

Soladrin wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I distinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codex..

And he's not actually using the Daemon within. He's effectively just using it as a beatstick

AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

One of them yes. Daemons are supposed to be another.

Kanluwen wrote:

Soladrin wrote:

Karon wrote:Yeah, but my point was that they won't let anything fly. They won't approve anything that is far from the fluff.

Really? I distinctly remember a Daemon Sword wielding Grey Knight in the new codex..

And he's not actually using the Daemon within. He's effectively just using it as a beatstick

AwesomeFex wrote:I'll definitely play Tyranids, and if I can't have them, then Tau.

As far as I remember, Tyranids will be the main AI mobs.

One of them yes. Daemons are supposed to be another.

I was aware of the Grey Knight. Kanluwen is correct.

Fluff fanboys are too much lol

The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

crimsonfist832 wrote:The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

Yeah, the fluff is important.

I've stopped paying too much attention to happydude, he's one of those guys who just doesn't give two gaks about the background, and plays it to "kick ass" in an MMO, which is hilarious.

Karon wrote:

crimsonfist832 wrote:The GK wielding the daemon sword is Castellan Crowe of the Purifiers and he wields it for the daemon within called out for a strong enough warrior. And btw happydude fluff fanboys are supposed to be the way they are, you couldn't have a God of War game on the ps3 immediately set during the stone age, fluff has to be correct.

Yeah, the fluff is important.

I've stopped paying too much attention to happydude, he's one of those guys who just doesn't give two gaks about the background, and plays it to "kick ass" in an MMO, which is hilarious.

Never said I don't care, simply put gameplay take precedence. Was Super Mario's story great? Did it stop you from playing any further mario games when princess toadstool became princess peach? When "Super Mario Brothers" became a useless title since only Mario was selectable for a short while in any of the games? Did it stop you then? And as for "Fluff being correct" about God of War... my friend a mythology class is in order... If the gameplay will not suffer then feel free to slap in all the fluff you wish and make the experience that much better. Also fyi I don't play mmo's because I avoid "fanboys" like yourself, and do yourself a favor and remind yourself that all this fluff you enjoy is really about little plastic soldiers you build to kill some time, not a nerdrage topic lol. And people wonder why I refuse to game at GW's and dropped 40k for Fantasy.

That's not really a good example. Mario doesn't have 30 or so years of background information to respect when a new title comes out. Mario hardly gets more complex than "save the princess" and it doesn't need to. Unlike 40k Mario's success is not built upon it's background as well as it's gameplay.

I would imagine fluff and game mechanics are the main reasons for 40k's success. Otherwise you might as well play with lego blocks but keep the rules.

Also unlike Mario there's a little more a developer or author needs to be aware of when using the 40k liscence. In enjoying 40k a large part of the experience is the background. Sure people want to shoot each other, but seeing your favorite faction come to life is part of the fun.

The gameplay takes precedence in a video game.

That's not to say the lore shouldn't try to be well written, but a gakky game is a gakky game is a gakky game, good lore or not. It's different for tabletop games in a sense, where you have to paint your own miniatures and create your own background.

I am actually driving a Titan right now. Wait, I'm not.

I think people are misunderstanding one another. Fluff advocates are not saying the gameplay needs to be castrated for the sake of fluff (though, some of the other side of the fence seems to be OK with it the other-way around). They want the game to be immersive and fun. We all know that gameplay is the top priority. That doesn't stop people from wanting good fluff in the game, though. You don't treat the fans like gak just for the sake of it. Staying true to fluff becomes an indicator of how much the developers care about "us". The harder they work to make the original fluff work the more fans will reciprocate that hard work into love and, most importantly, money and loyalty.

I'm sure the developers will tread the line the best they can, but we're all going to have to accept that fact that fluff goes out the door when game balance/play comes (i.e. bolter shells that can stun, paralyze, cripple, snare, poison, etc., choppas that have a chance on hit to explode ..) in.

Also, some people -do- read every little scrap of text in a MMO, especially if its their first one. Not everyone is an unrefined brute of a gamer that just runs around spamming accept and 1,2,2,3,4.

I don't plan on buying DMO. I'll try the trial and if it I have to have it I will buy it. Until then I'm not going to keep up with it much more, namely because after getting burned by WAR I don't want to get burned again by the hype-machine.

I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

But nobody's really arguing that we should ignore the lore entirely... only that a game with crap gameplay is still a game with crap gameplay.

Melissia wrote:But nobody's really arguing that we should ignore the lore entirely... only that a game with crap gameplay is still a game with crap gameplay.

That's probably true. I think I got side-tracked somewhere in this topic and started rambling about something irrelevant.

asimo77 wrote:I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

Never said to ignore, just keep it as a close second to gameplay. Also Warhammer's current success is really not due to fluff. It USED to be, but now not so much, because I am very sure that those space marine weilding 14 years olds could really care less about it and they seem to be deep in daddy's pockets so they accumulate plastic quite quickly. And as for your example, alter a few key aspects in mario games and watch the crap fly. Canon is canon regardless of the universe it is set in, the point is GAMEPLAY sells games and NEVER the other way around. Thing is people really need to see that it is just a game. Watching your fave faction come to life? Yeah that was cool when I was 8 and my G.I. Joes shot plastic missiles. Warhammer is a game, plain and simple and if you remove the fun factor in favor of fluff watch your game plummet into a downward spiral. As far as MMO's I played WoW ( yeah I know ) and casually would read some text but the game was an excuse to kill time with friends and thats all. I really never cared for who killed who in what battle nor did I care about tier armor because it is just a game. Not a mystical land of wondrous story, not a grindfest where I have to "zomgpwnNoObsgrabgearninjalootroflcopter" my way through it, just a silly game to distract from the ratrace and socialize with a few chums.


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asimo77 wrote:I agree gameplay is more important than lore, but in a 40k game ignoring the latter doesn't seem like a wise descion. Look how incensed people get over codex innacuracies, I'd imagine people would be quite annoyed if the same happened in an MMO. Though if the gameplay is good enough maybe they could get over it...

Agreed, but does that stop them from purchasing said books? My main issue is that after playing WARonline and getting hosed I want something that will bring in flocks of people from different walks and KEEP them there. Not another MMO where it fails horribly...

You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

happydude wrote:

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

Yeah, so your point of view is you don't care about the lore or fluff in the slightest, just gameplay.

Yeah, I hope they don't listen to you.

Karon wrote:

happydude wrote:

asimo77 wrote:You seem to be implying that the fluff enthusiasts here are asking for poor gameplay but solid lore. Most of us were just responding to your seemingly non-chalant attitude towards the canon. Hell I should be the first person to agree with you, a while back I was in some long ass thread about why stories in video games are pointless.

But setting, theme, and atmosphere are so much more important, and so is the player's ability to interact with the world and the narrative. And in something like 40k you want to get that right. But no one is saying do that at the expense of gamelay.

And yes seeing your favorite faction come to life is important, if someone choose to be an UM because he thinks they're cool ends up with some cop out he'll certainly be annoyed. If this wasn't important then there would be no meaningful distincions between the races. Video games excel in setting and atmosphere moreso than any other medium because of interacticivty. Remove that and you are removing the medium's greatest strentgh.

In Final Fantasy, I agree. In Mass Effect, I'd agree. In a Universe full of war? Not so much. Keep all the lore and history intact just as long as gameplay takes no hits at all. I think I should make a 40k force based on faction likes and dislikes again and stay away from what works on the table because it seems I'm sidetracked with that. I'm just saying I would LOVE to see eldar/marines/sisters/tau and Guardsman all working in unison for a greater good because it is the canon that has me hating everything imperium (pompus jerks) aside from poor guardsman lol. Heck I would love seeing Orks aside Dark eldar slaughtering in unison and laughter while Chaos laughs the night away. Finer details such as certain medics not being able to heal other races properly would kill the gameplay and unity and result in millions of marines vs millions of berserkers and the game goes south like WAR has. I agree to keep MAJOR storylines and major past events intact but who is to say that a certain chaos legion arises with the tech to create Chaos speeders ? Why not have an open world pvp mode alongside the regular and have dream matchups across factions take place, such as Chaos and eldar players fighting orks and guardsman? sure they would never ally but hey it would be fun as heck to play though for an experience that has never been felt outside of tabletop. Maybe many misunderstood me. Keep the bigger issues fine, but try not to sweat the little things if they can be changed to allow for zany fun! Randomness is what warhammer is all about and many of the customizations, fan codex/army books, conversions, paint schemes and campaigns show how stretching the canon here and there is far from a bad thing. Allow the truth to be stretched a little and you may find yourselves embarrassed at how much fun you will have.

Yeah, so your point of view is you don't care about the lore or fluff in the slightest, just gameplay.

Yeah, I hope they don't listen to you.

Try reading the full document. Also, troll harder elsewhere and try to have a decent debate.