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Yes, a lot fo the feminine figure is made up by fat. It's because our society wants women to not be physically fit-- the same couldn't be said of the Imperium I would think.

My guess is that an olympic level swimmer would be considered far more attractive to them than a fashion model.

Melissia wrote:Yes, a lot fo the feminine figure is made up by fat. It's because our society wants women to not be physically fit-- the same couldn't be said of the Imperium I would think.

My guess is that an olympic level swimmer would be considered far more attractive to them than a fashion model.

Depends. iirc, a certain amount of fat is considered better for fertility (from a scientific perspective, and not cultural bias), though I don't know the specifics.

BluntmanDC wrote:

It does stand to reason that a firewarrior female would not be encombered with a 'curvy figure' as all fire warriors have been selectively breed for generations to be warriors and fufill the role there caste is assigned, so having a body shape that is less efficient would be breed out.

You do realize hat it would also breed out their ability to survive baring children, assuming they work the same way humans do. Women have those 'curvy figures' because it allows them to deal with carrying offspring internally, it' not just fat, it's bones too.

BluntmanDC wrote:
valhallan troops - no point, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, nearly any of that range could be a woman

I point you to the illos of mixed gender vahallans and point out that it's quite easy to tell the difference between them.

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

BluntmanDC wrote:
steel legion - in those outfits you wouldn't see a difference

Wrong. Having quite a collection of military great and trench coats and having occasionally stuffed women into htem, there's a visible difference.

BluntmanDC wrote:
penal legions - just fill it with necromuda figures

Sure, if they weren't OOP.

BluntmanDC wrote:
catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

Rebuttal already posted, but I'll add in 'Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?' 'No, why, have you?'

Steel Legion aren't wearing either great or trenchcoats. They're wearing field smocks ala the German Falschirmjager.

Eumerin wrote:Of course, the fact that he's an extremely private individual and does his best to avoid public attention - including the press - just makes it that much more difficult to get a clear answer as to what exactly happened with Appleseed.

Which is sort of funny that he's worried about his position as a marine biologist when he's actually better known as a cartoonist.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kanluwen wrote:Steel Legion aren't wearing either great or trenchcoats. They're wearing field smocks ala the German Falschirmjager.

I have a swiss military greatcoat from the 1920's that's a bit longer but has the same basic cut. Don't have the Falschirmjager one though. Real german WW2 hardware is hard to get.

It really looks like a field jacket/smock rather than a greatcoat.

Maybe your Swiss coat is from a halfling?

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

Well because all Krieg solders are the clones of the same guy... according to some stories and rumors about them...

Kanluwen wrote:It really looks like a field jacket/smock rather than a greatcoat.

Maybe your Swiss coat is from a halfling?

As I said, it's a longer coat. The Steel Legion coat comes to the knee, the coat I have come to mid calf. It's similar to their officer coats, but feldgrau and is double breasted.

Brother Coa wrote:
Well because all Krieg solders are the clones of the same guy... according to some stories and rumors about them...

Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

BaronIveagh wrote:
Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

Here is a quote from Lexicanum: "It should be noted that Krieg raises an unusually large number of regiments for a devastated planet. This is attributed to the use of the "Vitae Womb" birthing technique, which Krieg has been granted special dispensation to use as the result of their famous steel, determination and unswerving loyalty to the Emperor. Use of this technique is largely unknown and generally seen as dangerous and abhorrent by the Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

So basicly, IoM gave them cloning technology to reward them for returning their world to the Emperor. But they are closely watched by AM.

while the men are rather expendable in comparison. qoute melissa

also impartially men are much less likely to succumb to the same wound inflicted on a woman can go farther for long and have a signafcantly better physicaal tolerance.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

It does stand to reason that a firewarrior female would not be encombered with a 'curvy figure' as all fire warriors have been selectively breed for generations to be warriors and fufill the role there caste is assigned, so having a body shape that is less efficient would be breed out.

You do realize hat it would also breed out their ability to survive baring children, assuming they work the same way humans do. Women have those 'curvy figures' because it allows them to deal with carrying offspring internally, it' not just fat, it's bones too.

So you have magically learned how Tau breed, oh no you haven't, you have just speculated based on assumptions that Tau breed in a similar way to humans and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either anyway. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

For all we know the Tau firecaste may not even carry embryos to term in a womb and may use articical wombs as it is to wasteful having half the firewarrior caste on a rotating maternity leave, but this is speculation, unlike your own claims, which you pass as fact.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
valhallan troops - no point, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference, nearly any of that range could be a woman

I point you to the illos of mixed gender vahallans and point out that it's quite easy to tell the difference between them.

How do you tell the difference between genders of someone wearing that leave of layers?

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
krieg - no because it goes against the fluff

How?

as already said you haven't read the fluff

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
steel legion - in those outfits you wouldn't see a difference

Wrong. Having quite a collection of military great and trench coats and having occasionally stuffed women into htem, there's a visible difference.

So these great coats you have, they are designed to protect against the terrible enviroment of the ash wastes of Armageddon? they are much thicker and if you look at the models, you wouldn't actually be able to tell.

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
penal legions - just fill it with necromuda figures

Sure, if they weren't OOP.

The magic of ebay

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
catachan - the obvious choice for female soldiers, unfortunetly, they wouldn't look very feminine due to fluff so wouldn't tick the boxes set out by a large number of female model posters

Rebuttal already posted, but I'll add in 'Hey, Vasquez, have you ever been mistaken for a man?' 'No, why, have you?'

Look at the word i used 'feminine', that model is not feminine and i say to truelly be called a catachan she needs alot more muscle, the point was that alot of posters who want female models want 'hot' women and do nothing for a more equalist game. Again please read my post, before replying half-cock.

You don't even need to use eBay for Necromunda figures. GW still sells them. I got an Arbites Enforcer Patrol Team from them just last week.

BluntmanDC wrote:
So you have magically learned how Tau breed, and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

As I said 'assuming they work the same way humans do'. You're a fine one to complain about someone not reading what you wrote. As far as the male vs female pelvis, I refer you to a text called Grey's Anatomy, you'll find the differences quite glaring.

And, bluntly, you'd be amazed at how many of them have c sections. Without modern medicine, many of them would die.

BluntmanDC wrote:
For all we know the Tau firecaste may not even carry embryos to term in a womb and may use articical wombs as it is to wasteful having half the firewarrior caste on a rotating maternity leave, but this is speculation, unlike your own claims, which you pass as fact.

I never said that it wasn't speculation.

BluntmanDC wrote:
How do you tell the difference between genders of someone wearing that leave of layers?

Face, height, overall shape... though granted, it's not perfect.

BluntmanDC wrote:
as already said you haven't read the fluff

Except I have, and most recent fluff doesn't mention that, and they all look different on the few occasions they take their masks off. So, not clones.

BluntmanDC wrote:
So these great coats you have, they are designed to protect against the terrible enviroment of the ash wastes of Armageddon? they are much thicker and if you look at the models, you wouldn't actually be able to tell.

No, just frozen hellholes such as the Swiss Alps in Winter, Sweden, Northern Russia, and Finland. I can assure you, with their internal liners in, they can be quite thick, though with the liners removed, they're also comfortable in simply cold conditions.

BluntmanDC wrote:
Look at the word i used 'feminine', that model is not feminine and i say to truelly be called a catachan she needs alot more muscle, the point was that alot of posters who want female models want 'hot' women and do nothing for a more equalist game. Again please read my post, before replying half-cock.

Obviously you didn't bother to look too hard at the female cadians I posted earlier, rather then the 'hot' pictures that were posted afterward. And, to be called catachan requires that you liked on that death world and survived, not that you look like a 'baby ogryn'.

Brother Coa wrote:

BaronIveagh wrote:
Hmm... I've heard they had a system to quickly create more troops, but last I heard cloning was a no-no in the Imperium.

Here is a quote from Lexicanum: "It should be noted that Krieg raises an unusually large number of regiments for a devastated planet. This is attributed to the use of the "Vitae Womb" birthing technique, which Krieg has been granted special dispensation to use as the result of their famous steel, determination and unswerving loyalty to the Emperor. Use of this technique is largely unknown and generally seen as dangerous and abhorrent by the Adeptus Mechanicus Biologis."

So basicly, IoM gave them cloning technology to reward them for returning their world to the Emperor. But they are closely watched by AM.

It isn't cloning...
At least..
Not in the sense of the word.
Vitae womb means glass womb. Essentially they are test tube babies and I'm not certain but i have a suspicion on what particular process they use but i am not sure.

Melissia wrote:

cadbren wrote:It's impossible to please feminists because they're all slightly insane

That's one of the dumbest things I've read this week...

The belief that both genders should be treated equally-- IE feminism-- is neither caused by nor indicative of insanity.

Well at least in the united states women have eqaul rights.

there is a all female regiment in the fluff, one of the commissar caine novels. I just dont know the number of the unit though.

rovian wrote:
Well at least in the united states women have eqaul rights.

I dunno, BluntmanDC seemed to assume I was talking about T&A when I pointed out that women are not shaped like men and that breeding out this fundamental difference would result in failure to be able to reproduce. A woman, broadly speaking, has a difference shape then a man with comparable levels of body fat. If you try and change this, at least in humans, your population will lose the ability to reproduce naturally. The wide hips (compared to a man) in humans is what allows a woman to support the developing offspring and give birth more easily.

This is due ot natural selection, as women with narrow hips tended to have difficult births and die. (Maternal mortality rates have historically climbed as high as 40%, so you can see how any advantage was a good thing, however this is not entirely tied to the dimensions of the subject.)


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martin74 wrote:there is a all female regiment in the fluff, one of the commissar caine novels. I just dont know the number of the unit though.

Actually, two get mentioned, one having a primary role in the series, the other only getting mentioned when a straggling tank of their joins up with Cain on Perlia.

As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

Melissia wrote:As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

I would expect a certain degree of underrepresentation. While I'd guess that most of the technologically advanced worlds are equal opportunity tithers, it's also worth noting that there are a lot of feral worlds with low levels of technology. On those worlds I'd hazard a guess that something similar to traditional gender roles are enforced, and the only guard troopers leaving those worlds are male.

A 90/10 ratio still sounds badly out of whack, even taking that into account.

Eumerin wrote:
I would expect a certain degree of underrepresentation. While I'd guess that most of the technologically advanced worlds are equal opportunity tithers, it's also worth noting that there are a lot of feral worlds with low levels of technology. On those worlds I'd hazard a guess that something similar to traditional gender roles are enforced, and the only guard troopers leaving those worlds are male.

A 90/10 ratio still sounds badly out of whack, even taking that into account.

I think it's GW trying to handwave why they don't make female minis for IG (real reason: until recently, GW has not been able to sculpt a female of any description to save their lives, and yes, I'm including most of the SoB sculpts in this, some of them were positively horrid.)

I suspect that the majority of them (as fluff stands) are tankies, if for no other reason then that there is no argument that can be made (by the equally rabid flip side to feminists, male chauvinists) that a woman can't drive 90 tonnes of steel over the enemies smoldering corpses as well as a man can. The Leman Russ does not care about the genitalia of the person at the wheel, or who pulls the trigger.

[delete: off topic]

BaronIveagh wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:
So you have magically learned how Tau breed, and 'tits and ass' are not needed to carry offspring in humans either. The actual difference in the pelvic bones of man and women are not actually that great and unless you are a pathologist or archeologist you probably wouldn't be able to tell. Maybe you should tell all those sports women who have children but don't have a curvy figure that what they have done is impossible.

As I said 'assuming they work the same way humans do'. You're a fine one to complain about someone not reading what you wrote. As far as the male vs female pelvis, I refer you to a text called Grey's Anatomy, you'll find the differences quite glaring.

And, bluntly, you'd be amazed at how many of them have c sections. Without modern medicine, many of them would die.

Most C-sections in this country are due to emergency birthing, planned if multiple births, or due to medical problems of the mother such as being overwieght, they are not however because of pelvic problems.

Wow you italisised the worlds the most famous medical text book, as if no one had ever heard of it before, although the female pelvis is wider the majority of the difference is in the internal spacing, most athletic women have a figure similar to males.

BluntmanDC wrote:
Most C-sections in this country are due to emergency birthing, planned if multiple births, or due to medical problems of the mother such as being overwieght, they are not however because of pelvic problems.

Wow you italisised the worlds the most famous medical text book, as if no one had ever heard of it before, although the female pelvis is wider the majority of the difference is in the internal spacing, most athletic women have a figure similar to males.

Narrower hips tend to have a narrower outlet (and if not you're potentially reducing the structural integrity of the hip) which was found, in 2006, in a paper by Stålberg, Bodestedt, Lyrenäs, and Axelsson of the Department of Women's and Children's Health, Uppsala University, Sweden to cause increased risk of a birth requiring an emergency csection.

Further, even with 40 pounds of gear on, women who are athletic, but not taking steroids (I think), in the US Military are still visibly female.

However, (back to 40k) in the case of Tau, we have little information, and what we do have is conflicting. (Like so much of 40k)

In Xenology, A tau is dissected, however, the two drawings and the text all manage to conflict with one another. (Never hire two artists and one writer if they are not in the same room)

I'll go with the text: The differences are quicker to list than the similarities: cobalt based blood, ribs arraigned vertically instead of horizontally, a single lobed lung (which begs the question how they breathe, since the diaphragm appear in roughly the same location), the heart doubles as a liver (?), they have vestigial secondary stomachs, and sweat, as well as sharing several other mammalian traits, most notably the eye structure, according to the text, though it observes that their sense of smell is more acute then their sight. Plus the obvious feet and hands.

In Courage and Honor however, Space Marines have no trouble distinguishing female and male firewarriors (IIRC, as it's not handy to me atm) so there must be some visible component.

In Codex: Tau Empire Shadowsun appears to have a very different shaped face than male tau pictured, but this is mentioned nowhere else. (and wouldn't have been visible to the Ultamarines in Courage and Honor)

Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Melissia wrote:Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Agreed. And please, for the love of god, don't mention hentai. I really don't want to think of that at the moment. It makes my brain hurt.

BaronIveagh wrote:

Melissia wrote:Frankly, trying to figure out the sex organs of an alien with bizarre biology is kinda pointless outside of figuring out how to make hentai about it, so let's move on.

Agreed. And please, for the love of god, don't mention hentai. I really don't want to think of that at the moment. It makes my brain hurt.

You called?

For some reason, I'm very reluctant to click on that. For some reason I have this watery voice in the back of my mind saying 'It's a Trap!'

Melissia wrote:As reference, it is stated that ten percent of the Imperial Guard is female. Which is a woeful underrepresentation, but it could have merely been a current statistic of the time rather than an overall thing.

That would put the number of female guardsmen in the billions wouldnt it?

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

What Black Library book is this from because after a quick search of their website there is no info on this story at all and right now its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

It's on 1d4Chan. At least, that is where I found it. If it's simply reprinted there from some other source, I do not know where it originates.

I don't recommend reading it, actually. It's extremely NSFW... but it *is* fething hilarious.

My post was meant more as a humorous aside than any serious contribution to the topic... though I will point out that most other humanoid races in the galaxy (as in, more than just humanoid-in-appearance, but following basic human/animal biology) reproduce sexually. Most advanced species (and even many lesser, "animal" species) exhibit secondary sexual characteristics as part of their natural development. In addition, I believe that many pictures of Tau individuals show them with hair (doesn't Sunshadow herself wear a long braid out of the top of her head?) which would lend credence to the idea that they are mammals, which breed sexually as a rule.

As far as figures go... speaking as a former soldier, biologically, women make better infantrymen than men do. They have stronger muscle-mass in their legs and greater endurance (all other things being equal... a body-builder male is going to be stronger and tougher than a non-athletic woman, of course, but given 2 average individuals put through the same training regimen for the same period of time...) than men, and their bodies retain water better than a man's does, reducing their susceptibility to heat-casualties. The only benefit males have in this area is superior upper-body strength, which allows the average male to heft and support a heavier weapon than a female (I, for example, can fire an M60D from the shoulder, which I don't recommend, really, whereas most female soldiers I knew would not be able to absorb the recoil of that beast in their shoulders), and carry a heavier weight on their shoulders. It also adds some benefit in hand-to-hand combat, which is still a part of modern military training, though any Drill Sergeant will tell you that, if you have to take the enemy on in hand-to-hand, you are now, truly, in a world of gak. So, a "curvy" woman may still be found in a co-ed military, even in a line unit, as this is more a matter of bone-structure than muscle/fat structure. The curves come from wide hips and a narrow waist, the "hourglass figure" from the same with wide shoulders supporting large breasts (from my own military experiences, not all that uncommon, really). Again, less to do with training and far more to do with the genetics of the individual in question.

Psienesis wrote:

BluntmanDC wrote:

Psienesis wrote:Actually, according to Love Can Blam, Tau do have breasts. And, apparently, human-compatible genitalia.

What Black Library book is this from because after a quick search of their website there is no info on this story at all and right now its just sounding like terrible fan-fiction.

It's on 1d4Chan. At least, that is where I found it. If it's simply reprinted there from some other source, I do not know where it originates.

I don't recommend reading it, actually. It's extremely NSFW... but it *is* fething hilarious.

My post was meant more as a humorous aside than any serious contribution to the topic... though I will point out that most other humanoid races in the galaxy (as in, more than just humanoid-in-appearance, but following basic human/animal biology) reproduce sexually. Most advanced species (and even many lesser, "animal" species) exhibit secondary sexual characteristics as part of their natural development. In addition, I believe that many pictures of Tau individuals show them with hair (doesn't Sunshadow herself wear a long braid out of the top of her head?) which would lend credence to the idea that they are mammals, which breed sexually as a rule.

Having hair is not just a thing for mammals, neither is reproducing sexually. Sexual reproduction doesn't even require a female to carry the offspring.

Also when in a discussion it is better to say you are making a joke when putting 'evidence' into a thread.