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leemie0704 wrote:http://www.yourmovegames.com/battleground_index.html

this game uses 2d units and plays similar to fantasy. To be honest if GW came out with 2d cards like this where you could cross off members of the unit as they died I think more people would play fantasy. It would allow people to try the game before buying models and proxy units in an official way. This would result in more opponents which is good and starting the game wouldn't be as large of an investment. I only think this would work for fantasy smoothly though because of ranking up. I suppose you could use it for 40k too but it would be more difficult.

How is that game anyway? You can pm me with the answer if you don'
t want to derail the conversation...

malfred wrote: if you don'
t want to derail the conversation...

Bit late for that, don't you think?

I'll post my paper Nids as an example for 2D (ish) models, just as soon as I can figure out how to get data from an SD card onto a computer without an SD card slot... :/

darkPrince010 wrote:I'll post my paper Nids as an example for 2D (ish) models, just as soon as I can figure out how to get data from an SD card onto a computer without an SD card slot... :/

I use one of these.

I need to get me one of those. For the time being however, I borrowed my fiance's camera which doesn't have a non-standard USB port and added the pics:



Closeup of my mawloc, hive tyrant, and a couple warriors



Overview of the swarm. It's a comfortable 2K points, and can be stretched to 3K in a pinch. (Sorry for gakky flash)



Closeup of the zoanthropes and venomthropes (foreground) and carnifexes (background, stupidly armed with venom cannons... )
More pics of the army are in my gallery.


Overall, I'm proud of my models. They don't hold a candle to fully painted plastics, but they look (imo, biased of course) far better than flat greys/black primer armies. While I'd fully understand someone with a painted army not wanting to play this, I definitely raise my eyebrows at the occasional "They look like crap" coming from one or two guys at my FLGS, who incidentally only have half-painted and/or unpainted "This flamer is really a lascannon" proxy armies...

I strongly recommend something like this for people who (like me up until very recently when I got an incredible deal on a full Tau army) are unable to afford the official models. While you won't enter any official tourneys with them, and you may receive some flak for them from the diehards, most of the people I've played with are happy that I have an army that is both painted (Or at least not monochromatic) and WYSIWYG, and I've had several fun games with them (Losing all but one of them iirc ) ).

I fully agree that something like this may not be incredibly appealing to passer-bys as compared to a fully painted official plastics army, but I'd bet that a colorful army, even if made out of paper, would attract more attention than unpainted or single-primer plastic armies would if played in the front window. After they enter the store, the store owner could easily direct them to the model ranges (Which, thanks to the beautifully painted pictures on the boxes, would be more enticing than plain paper models).

Those models are much nicer looking then I had expected. I'd have no problem playing against them.

However, were I a store owner, I'd probably let you use them while you build up a "real" army out of product, preferably bought from me, or for testing out a new army first to try something out. Again, I would retain an exception for Drop Pods, which suck.

Ouze wrote:Those models are much nicer looking then I had expected. I'd have no problem playing against them.

However, were I a store owner, I'd probably let you use them while you build up a "real" army out of product, preferably bought from me, or for testing out a new army first to try something out. Again, I would retain an exception for Drop Pods, which suck.

Agreed, they look nice. Scratch built drop pod from foam looking like something tyranids would use, again, no problem with them.

whilst I appreciate the effort darkprince010 has gone to with his card/paper army I would agree that for use in a gaming store I would only allow it whilst a prpoer army was being built. If there is no army with physical models (scratch built or standard) I would have to stop them being used I'm afraid.

I mean any progress even if it's one model a month or something..

Ah geez, my initial reaction was "Burn it with fire!" But I'm not sure whether it was because they're paper or they're tyranids...

The paper card army above shows effort. However, I'd still agree with all assessments above. It would be fair to use it in a shop while you work to build your plastic/metal army. That way you can learn the ropes and stay involved.

For tournment / competitive play you would likely not be allowed to enter. I would hope if people pursued card armies, they would also pursue the effort it appears you have taken with yours. However, I stand doubtful that would happen. Still i'd happily play against that in a pick up game.

I'm lovin those paper nids. They are so much better than the models that are assembled and painted by GWs target market. I would encourage newbs to use paper. They could then buy a real model or two. If they take to hobbying and painting then they could buy a real army. If not, stick with paper.

Wow, I am shocked at how good those Tyranids look!

Still waiting on OP to post his titans :/

Not a fan of those paper models... Would be ok for club night but not appropriate for most general play. I would not want to play against them.

And while I would not want to play against proxy greys either... at least the store owner got his pound of flesh from those models... so it is only disrespect opponents, not the venue.

I did make my army so I'd be able to play while accumulating a real army, and while I still like building and using non-GW models, I at least have one full all-GW-models army to use in case of someone who refuses to play against any unpure models...

Well those paper nids look a lot better than I could've imagined, but I still wouldn't fancy playing them. They would, however, make a hilarious lender army.
"No army, bro? No worries, here's some paper bugs."

They look good but I wonder. Does Best Buy or whoever you bought the printer from let you game there or does your LGS charge you to game since you are not helping him stay in business by buying product from him?

Gaming in Best Buy would truly be epic.

I have only ever used them in my local gaming club (For which I pay a monthly fee for tables).

Also, slight side note, never buy an Epson printer: This army went through probably 4 sets of ink cartridges by the end, along with a great deal of frustration and gnashing of teeth due to superglued-together fingers. Epson printers won't print anything if they run out of a single color, not even B/W, and when you replace a cartridge, it "charges" all the cartridges, draining the rest further. This whole army cost me ~$5 for the paper, ~$10 for the glue, and ~$60 for the damn ink cartridges. HP doesn't pull these shenanigans, and better yet, neither does my new laser printer

/End Rant

Our FLGS actually has only a single table, which as far as I've ever seen only has a demo/display table. I've never seen anyone actually play on the table (Especially since iirc it's 3 or 4 foot square), and I rarely buy GW products since he way overprices them (The other model supplies and toy/game section does see my occasional dollar however).

darkPrince010 wrote:I have only ever used them in my local gaming club (For which I pay a monthly fee for tables).

If I'm paying a monthly fee, I expect to be able to play with soda caps and pennies so far as the store owner goes. So we're back down to your opponents, who seem good with it.

Ouze wrote:

DreamWeaver wrote:

1. Introduced friend to 40k couple months ago.
2. Since then he was fired.
3. He is now unemployed and currently searching for job.
4. He can't afford full SM army so he uses some 2d image standees.
5. Local players/gw lackeys at game shop refuse to play him.
6. ...

Well, this seems less like an attempt at having a conversation and more an attempt at starting a flamewar, but I guess I enjoy either one, so why not.

There are 2 sets of guidelines here, with a single exception.

A.) If you're like actual, real-life friend, I don't care what you use for models so long as I can tell what they are and they are consistent (and more or less appropriately sized). I'd prefer not to be assaulted by a Coke can Carnifex, but you're my friend and I like hanging out with you, so whatever.

B.) If you're Little Johnny Nobody, then I spent a lot of time and money and effort getting my army done, and I'd like to play with someone with similar ambitions. So, I don't care if they're only basecoated plastic models, if they're a work in progress and you're working to eventually have a nice, well done army. But you can GTFO with your coke can carnifex. Saying waaagh, I'm too poor and the "GW lackeys" won't play with me is like complaining the Yacht Club is excluding you and your canoe because you can't afford a yacht. That's the game, brah. Go play something else if you don't want to play it.

At the end of the day I almost never get to play against actual people, and so I while I wouldn't refuse a game against Cardboard Cutout guy, per se, but he'd certainly be my last choice of opponent should I be so blessed as to have a choice of adversaries.

Single Exception: Drop Pods. These models suck, are expensive, and do nearly nothing. No matter who you are, I'm not complaining about plastic cup drop pods. I built and painted a single drop pod and hated it the whole time. Your peanut butter jar drop pod is OK with me, but at least paint it or something and don't break my immersion.

+1

On a side note, this is one of the reasons I have 7 armies... New to the game? Don't know exactly what you want to play? Here... try a few out, you can borrow an army.

My FLGS keeps 3 armies of ~1500pts chilling at the store for the same reason. It boils down to 40k players have enough to keep track of in a normal game, let alone walking a new player through the rounds with his paper army.

darkPrince010 I just wanted to say that your papercraft army looks amazing. Did you design the units yourself or did you find a template online?

swollendeathray wrote:darkPrince010 I just wanted to say that your papercraft army looks amazing. Did you design the units yourself or did you find a template online?

I'm pretty sure they are the "One Monk Miniatures" Chimera Brood.
http://onemonk.com/

He's been redoing the website, so not all have been updated and rereleased , but the Basic Chimerra Brood figs are still for sale ($4 PDF) and a few of the other variants are in the free "Forum Horde" sections.

Thanks for the link. I think I'm going have to give this a shot.

I'm kind of liking the whole paper terrain/model aesthetic at the moment - it'll never be as good as proper miniatures, but if you're on a budget (a very small one) it's a way to go about getting proxies that are better looking than simple paper cut outs with 'gribbly' written on and better than using substitutes (guard for nids etc). It's like playing in cartoon-world - which I think (if done well enough) has its own charm. I'd have nothing against someone who wanted to use an army like that above - I just can't take my gaming seriously enough to be bothered by it *shrugs*

Played 40k in the desert for a year with paper cutouts of shapes from MS paint of approximately the right size. It only make you want your models more.

Wow. I hadn't been on the onemonk site in a while, and he's really hamstrung his available stuff. Anyhow, for anyone who's interested, I used this guy for my carnifexes and hive tyrant:
http://www.onemonk.com/onemonkAssets/hoardFiles/hoard16.zip
iirc, these guys for the raveners and thrope tails (I only used the lower torso of the bigger unit)
http://www.onemonk.com/onemonkAssets/hoardFiles/hoard8.zip
(For people wary of directly downloading the .zip, they can be found under the site's "Forum Hoards")
and these guys for genestealers:
http://www.onemonk.com/chimera-brood

He also had bug-winged flying units (Didn't love gargoyles enough to jump through the hoops to assemble those models), the warriors, and a set of alternative weapons in the different color schemes. I personally like the dark blue/black color, but they didn't have the carnifex in anything but lime green/purple, so ah well

For anyone who's not sold on the units but is interested in terrain, I can't reccomend World Works Games (http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/) enough. I own very little of their stuff, mainly because I know I don't have the time to assemble them and I no longer have a color printer, but I plan on buying their clip-together city sets (Here's an example of the sewers: http://www.worldworksgames.com/store/index.php?view=product&product=164) and make some amazing multi-level wargame scenarios one day...

EDIT: All of the major paper model/terrain makers I've seen include files to allow anyone lucky enough to own a robo-cutter to use that with their sets, and if you have the remotest chance of fanagling one of those from someone, DO IT! I can't emphasize enough how much time, effort, and pain it'll save you. The other tip I strongly reccomend is going over all the white edges with a black sharpie. It takes forever, but really helps the models not look like anywhere near as crappy.

Oragami 40K!

When I first started playing WHF I made some "Skeletons" out of cardboard. They were just plain old tiles with the word "Skeleton" written on them. It seemed like an OK idea, because back in the day, lots of games used counters for models - including a D&D Mass Battles game (I forget the actual name) which had like a billion punch-out little chits that represented monsters for the mass battle.

Heck, Wizards of the Coast has returned to this way of thinking with its recent "Monster Vault" products and discontinuation of D&D Minis.

That said, my 20mm base-sized chits with "Skeleton" written on them, if I may say so, looked Mighty Lame compared to my opponents' nicely painted 3D models of charging cavalry, furious dragons, and rampaging warriors.

My opponents let me play because I was young and poor. And generously, I was given real models from each person in the group when Xmas came around.

40K is, more than anything, a visual game as many wargaming simulations are. This is in contrast to RPGs which are mostly about imagination and where the best action happens in your head.

So can you play with paper? Sure you can. But it is like watching Avatar on a 20-inch black-and-white television.

That's how I see it. Would I play against paper? Out of respect to those who humored me all those years ago, I believe I would. Maybe I'd even be generous enough to buy a box of models for that friend for his next birthday or holiday, too.

As an asside, I recieved notice of this in my email today.




More paper mech designs for "Mech Attack" a really fun fast-playing mech game with a nice unit building mechanic for mechs vehicles and infnatry.
http://www.wargamevault.com/product_info.php?cPath=5431&products_id=79303
I love the game and play it with rebased Mechwarrior minis, but the models are nice as 2.5d figs go.

wow i hven't really thought about this. well i'm not a gamer. but just a builder.

but wouldn't people not like to play people with paperhammer because of the money and effort they put it?
it's like "i had to save up money to get a rhino, but you simply printed one out..."

or maybe imagine playing pokemon cards or yugioh cards.
you went through all that trouble to get a strong card. money time effort
and some dude just prints one out. it kinda doesn't seem fair.

i'm just imagining how i would feel. i don't play pokemon or yugioh LOLOLOL

but it's still kinda messed up that warhammer is for people with money.

well it's just my opinion. i built a drop pod out of paper and it was really fun. i don't know why people think it's useless. but i wouldn't know i don't play the game

I agree, and if Warhammer was as affordable as something like Yu-Gi-Oh, Pokemon, or MtG, I'd be much more understanding when someone got mad at someone else for bringing a meh-quality papercraft army.

Problem is, we're all acutely aware that Warhammer of either flavor isn't cheap, and I feel like it's discriminating against people with less income. I had people at my FLGS bug the gak out of me for my proxy stuff (Including the paper nids, which imo are acceptable-quality papercraft models. Not amazing by any means, but on par with a three-color-for-tournament army) until I finally bought some Tau, and considering I didn't have the income to justify purchasing full-price Warhammer for a long time, I thought that their behavior was fairly dickish.

I understand that playing MtG against someone with a bunch of printed cards might be annoying, but is it more dickish to use printed cards to try a particular new card or combination, or to say "feth you" and not let them use those cards/combos until they buy all enough booster packs to finally get the card or buy it at a 300% markup online?

I realize it's annoying to play someone Warhammer if they only ever use proxies and they've been playing for 10+ years and make $60K/year, but for someone just getting into the hobby or getting into a new army, I'd say it'd be more dickish to force them to buy the expensive official models for units which may actually be worthless or inefficient. This is a big issue with Warhammer, since to a new player, lots of models look cool but actually suck on the tabletop (Chaos Spawn and the Space Pope come to mind immediately, and to a lesser extent models/units that are very hard for a new player to use properly like Blood Knights, most Wood Elf units iirc, etc.).

If someone can buy every new iteration of the iPhone but balks at shelling out $10 for a model instead of a using a penny, they're being suitably annoying and I agree that that would be annoying as hell and probably would start to be pissed at him. However, if they're saving for college tuition or trying to pay off their credit card, I'd be a complete dick if I told him "No, go away until you spend a bunch of money you don't have."