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carmachu wrote:Businesses are free to make money till their hearts desire. But dont ask for support for something thats not providing anything of use and catering to something else.

So... your store has staff with a bad attitude, doesn't provide gaming tables for you to play on, carry product you're interested in, and in fact sells stuff you don't like instead?

Then why the is it your store in the first place? Go to a store that DOES provide what you are looking for. Nothing and noone - not even anyone responding to you in this thead - thinks you should shut up and stettle for being treated like garbage. I've kicked more than one LGS (note the lack of an 'F' there; they were anything but friendly) to the curb in my time and moved on to another.

But then, I suppose I'm lucky; the one good thing about this berg I'm stuck in is that there is a huge number of game stores (over a dozen I can think of offhand currently in business, with about that many having opened and/or closed in the past two decades) around here.

Not my problem to consider a business owners POV. Having run a business for decade or two, I can tell you flat out no customer cares for you POV on business. What they care about is price, convience and what service you can provide for their budget. Your POV is meaningless to them.

Attitudes like that are WHY I kicked the last several LGS' to the curb. Not a one is open today.

When I find a good store, I DO care about the health of the store and do what I can to help it stay in business. This includes buying there - even if I could get it cheaper elsewhere - and helping maintain good relations between gaming groups playing there. And I am NOT the exception around here, this attitude seems to be the RULE.

Which may have something to do with why we have so many game stores around here, and why the long-lived ones are the good ones.

SoloFalcon1138 wrote:Exactly my point. "Sorry, Saturdays are for our Magic players" that is called scheduling. Maybe if you didn't walk in to a store with the attitude that the owner is out to screw you, he might try and be nice.

Respect is earned, not given. You want your FLGS owner to address you by name? Be a good customer. Don't make him know it because you act like a jerk.

In that case, he too needs to earn that and loyalty. Be a good store and you might get it. So far havent seen it in decades. Stop making half assed schedules and such. Its a two way street.

Vulcan wrote:
Then why the is it your store in the first place? Go to a store that DOES provide what you are looking for. Nothing and noone - not even anyone responding to you in this thead - thinks you should shut up and stettle for being treated like garbage. I've kicked more than one LGS (note the lack of an 'F' there; they were anything but friendly) to the curb in my time and moved on to another.

Here's a hint:

There is NONE around. Out of the 2-3 stores around the story was all the same monkey poo in various forms. Including betrayal. I live in the ass end of gaming deadzone. Its the same with RPG gaming. None around really.

This isnt "one bad store treated me wrong." This is "all the stores around its the same crap."

When I find a good store, I DO care about the health of the store and do what I can to help it stay in business. This includes buying there - even if I could get it cheaper elsewhere - and helping maintain good relations between gaming groups playing there. And I am NOT the exception around here, this attitude seems to be the RULE.

I use to, back in the early 90's, drive 45 minutes to an hour out of my way to a hole in the wall store that had absolutely no playing space. And kept coming back becuase he knew how to treat customers right. And price wasnt an issue(well granted, back then everything was cheaper by alot).

Again, you miss the point. Yes, the store manager and crew need to show some respect to the customer. But it is EQUALLY IMPORTANT FOR A HEALTHY STORE for the customers to respect the store crew, especially when they are doing the right thing. Being hostile to the crew means they WILL be hostile right back, even if they are forced to conceal it because 'the customer is always right.' Having worked in various retail places, I can tell you 100% true that the customers who get the bare minimum from me are the ones with bad attitudes, and the ones who get me to go the extra mile are the ones who are polite.

With the attitude you've demonstrated here on this thread, I rather strongly suspect you rub people the wrong way in person just as thoroughly as you have here, and the store crew will reflect that bad attitude right back at you. Try not being so hostile, and maybe things will get better.

You would of course be wrong. I'm quite pleasent to be around and play. What your getting now is decade of frustration at the attitude of "support your FLGS". And you'll keep getting that.

No Its not, respect the store. Their a business and jsut like any business THEY HAVE TO EARN IT. Just like the car dealership we go back to time and again inmy family- they know how to treat you right. Which is why we go back. But the first time in we didnt have to respect them (nor do we have to disrespect them)- they had to earn it.

And so do FLGS. Earn it you might get a customer- dont and you get the attitude you see in this thread- its well earn the bad attitude.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bakerofish wrote:

carmachu wrote:My time as an adult in in much smaller quanity then some 12 year olds free time, and much more valuable..

I really cant take anything you say seriously after this statement.

It's time spent playing with little plastic soldiers for crying out loud.



If your time really was valuable, you'd be doing something else. Otherwise, its just time spent playing with toy soldiers.

Its MY FREE Time. If I want to spend it playing with toy soldiers, RPGing with friends, playing golf or otherwise, its limited and I want to relax and enjoy myself. Of course its valuable to me. Inbetween work and home and kids and wife and life.

I cant take you very serious when you dont understand the difference between adults free time and kids. I can tell you dont have kids and have had to deal with other people's kids.

This thread reminds me of an old Phil and Dixie strip from back in the day...




http://www.airshipentertainment.com/growfcomic.php?date=20070225

And that was pre-internet discounters!

But I loves me some Phil and Dixie!

Valete,

JohnS

I love having a panel discussion with people aho have little or no idea how businesses run...

carmachu wrote:
Its MY FREE Time. If I want to spend it playing with toy soldiers, RPGing with friends, playing golf or otherwise, its limited and I want to relax and enjoy myself. Of course its valuable to me. Inbetween work and home and kids and wife and life.

I cant take you very serious when you dont understand the difference between adults free time and kids. I can tell you dont have kids and have had to deal with other people's kids.

There's no difference. Time is time. Thinking YOUR time is more valuable than anyone else's (even kids') just reeks of self entitlement and comes off as a-holish.

You're not the type to cut into lines using the "my time is more valuable then yours" excuse are you?

Bakerofish wrote:

carmachu wrote:
Its MY FREE Time. If I want to spend it playing with toy soldiers, RPGing with friends, playing golf or otherwise, its limited and I want to relax and enjoy myself. Of course its valuable to me. Inbetween work and home and kids and wife and life.

I cant take you very serious when you dont understand the difference between adults free time and kids. I can tell you dont have kids and have had to deal with other people's kids.

There's no difference. Time is time. Thinking YOUR time is more valuable than anyone else's (even kids') just reeks of self entitlement and comes off as a-holish.

You're not the type to cut into lines using the "my time is more valuable then yours" excuse are you?

And because you know, learning how to deal with social interactions, building confidence and playing (much needed to have good brain development for kids) are not important in life, and you don't need to experience them as a child.

Children will have different priorities from you (i.e. figuring out how the world works, building social skills and contacts) and guess what, that time will impact them more throughout their life.

Just because you are older than someone doesn't mean your time is more valuable.

carmachu wrote: Here's a hint:

There is NONE around. Out of the 2-3 stores around the story was all the same monkey poo in various forms. Including betrayal. I live in the ass end of gaming deadzone. Its the same with RPG gaming. None around really.

This isnt "one bad store treated me wrong." This is "all the stores around its the same crap."

Here's a hint back. When you're getting poor treatment EVERYWHERE, maybe the problem doesn't lie in the game stores. Maybe the problem lies with the attitude of the customer...

But it could be I'm wrong, and all the stores around you are full of TFG and Fail, in which case you have every right to be frustrated. In that case, they're not FLGSs, are they?

And the whole point of this discussion is the fate of FLGSs. It's right there in the title. The common fate of UnFLGSs is ultimately bankruptcy and closing, because the players stop going there. This is understood by all participating in the thread and does not need discussion.

So your coming in here and arguing that NO store can EVER be an FLGS because all the stores around YOU suck moose, that's just plain trolling. And it's getting tiresome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

heartserenade wrote:

Bakerofish wrote:

carmachu wrote:
Its MY FREE Time. If I want to spend it playing with toy soldiers, RPGing with friends, playing golf or otherwise, its limited and I want to relax and enjoy myself. Of course its valuable to me. Inbetween work and home and kids and wife and life.

I cant take you very serious when you dont understand the difference between adults free time and kids. I can tell you dont have kids and have had to deal with other people's kids.

There's no difference. Time is time. Thinking YOUR time is more valuable than anyone else's (even kids') just reeks of self entitlement and comes off as a-holish.

You're not the type to cut into lines using the "my time is more valuable then yours" excuse are you?

And because you know, learning how to deal with social interactions, building confidence and playing (much needed to have good brain development for kids) are not important in life, and you don't need to experience them as a child.

Children will have different priorities from you (i.e. figuring out how the world works, building social skills and contacts) and guess what, that time will impact them more throughout their life.

Just because you are older than someone doesn't mean your time is more valuable.

On this one point, carmachu and I see eye to eye. Right now, the average 12-year-old is in the middle of summer vacation and has, on the average, about an hour's worth of chores to do a day - and he can then spend the rest of the day as he chooses, parental permission pending. I, on the other hand, have to spend 8.5 hours at work (plus an hour in transit), cook dinner (another hour or two), do whatever housework needs doing (another hour) and spend time with family (2+ hours if everything goes well). On the weekends, it's a bit less hectic, probably only 6 hours or so of house and yardwork, but time with family doubles.

In short, the 12-year-old has MUCH more time to spend playing with plastic soldiers than I do.

Or to put it in economic terms, show me a 12-year-old making $50K a year and I'll allow that his time is as valuable as mine.

So...

What can joe gamer do to infect a FLGS and perk up all of this generation of downtrodden game store owners?

As was said by someone, support is earned... So what does some of these downtrodden misers have to do to get some game on?


I find a douche store. What do I have to do to turn that around to make it a place that I'd want to come back to, aside from the obvious telling the oppressed owner to take a bath?

@Vulcan

Key words "parental permission pending". A kid's day is pretty much doing what he/she is "allowed to do"

and if the kid has a saturday where their parents can take them to a mall to play a game with toy soldiers, id call that valuable too.

who says value has to be monetary anyway? the kid will only be 12 once. he has at most 5 years of childhood left and then its off to the mind-numbing 9-5 grind.

Time is time. It's pointless arguing who's time is more valuable as it all boils down to perspective anyway. No one can say theirs is more valuable.

well...i make exceptions for terminal patients and bomb squad guys on duty.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Bakerofish wrote:
who says value has to be monetary anyway? the kid will only be 12 once. he has at most 5 years of childhood left and then its off to the mind-numbing 9-5 grind.

Time is time. It's pointless arguing who's time is more valuable as it all boils down to perspective anyway. No one can say theirs is more valuable.
)

Also this.

Back on topic....

As a 40+ year old gamer, I don't mind kids in the store but I don't babysit them either.. they're not my kids! That's a parent's job, not mine. I feel for the poor owner who has to deal with the rambunctious kiddos but hopefully he's making money from their purchases.

I go to stores that are friendly and have what I want to buy. If they're not friendly, I gladly take my money elsewhere.

If I'm treated poorly, I say "thank you" and don't return. Or if I do return it might be for a pot of paint that I can't wait for from the internet. My one time $5 sale isn't going to help a sinking store if the owner/employee is a jerk.

As much as I like "the customer is always right", I too am a business owner (not a game store owner). My customers come to me specifically through referrals and word of mouth. So I MUST be customer-service oriented 100% of the time, even if the customer is a jerk. I chose this line of business, so no one put a gun to my head and said "be nice all of the time to your customers." It's part of the deal and how I make my living.

People are not friendly all of the time. It's not possible! Customers are as varied as business owners. The business runs on cash, customers bring the cash but will only part with it if they feel they're getting their money's worth... which depends on the owner.

I remember Mikhaila stating once (correct me if I'm wrong) about gaming space and I'm paraphrasing "the game tables bring the customer into the store... It's my job to sell to the customer" which leads me to believe that he's the main influence in the transaction. As successful as he's been, he must be doing something right by being so positively involved!

Most of us gamers already have a game system in mind (Dust, 40k, Magic, Infinity, etc.). The game is exactly the same everywhere. So it's up to the person running the store to convince the customer to spend money there instead of elsewhere.

This came to mind.

Grot 6 wrote:

I find a douche store. What do I have to do to turn that around to make it a place that I'd want to come back to, aside from the obvious telling the oppressed owner to take a bath?

Supposidly, if you act with rainbows and puppies type attitude, it will get you in the good graces of the staff, and they will in turn treat you better. Or at least its been said in the thread here.

In store events, If I recall, are a good way to start the little 'uns on the road to either success or ruin.

One such event, the famed Paint and play is a good way to get them centered and introduce them to the basic of all games. That there is a winner and a loser, but its more about hard work is rewarded, and skill doesn't come cheap.

The kids have the time to paint up the guys, either one or five, then they play as a team, or against each other. then the next lession, you have the guys add in a heavy weapon. ( Yes, granted that the money is in the till, but posting a start up fee, or charging a five or ten bucks to the cause can get some cash, and the kiddos get to have some quality time.

Heaven forbid that you take a small part of the time to teach them to paint, or gab up a little with them. the little blighters!

Yeah, those dirty spawn are sometimes a pain, but if you groom them right, they are going to be your next generation and fill of up and coming gamers.


I've seen this go both ways, but all in all if the group in store is solid, they weed and groom thier own, and the players continue to fill, and the talent gets better.

Treating children like is not a good idea, seeing as they will more then likely turn on you and bite your knees or something.

Other things you could do is encourage parent kid things, where both of them learn the game. ( not nessesarily GW's, but any games work, or you would think.)

Bakerofish wrote:

who says value has to be monetary anyway? the kid will only be 12 once. he has at most 5 years of childhood left and then its off to the mind-numbing 9-5 grind.

Time is time. It's pointless arguing who's time is more valuable as it all boils down to perspective anyway. No one can say theirs is more valuable.

Ah yes the moral eqivilancy type arguemnt, no one is right.

Yes, yes we can say our time is more valuable. We have less free time. That makes it more valuable.

carmachu wrote:
Supposidly, if you act with rainbows and puppies type attitude, it will get you in the good graces of the staff, and they will in turn treat you better.

Well, duh.

Didn't you know?

Friendship is MAGIC.

I think the main service FLGS can do is provide a community focus point. However that essentially makes it a club. Anyone can get 15-25% off GW stuff on the internets, but its harder to actually find space, rent/hire it, set up some tables and attract people to play.

carmachu wrote:Yes, yes we can say our time is more valuable. We have less free time. That makes it more valuable.

It just makes it more valuable to you.

Bakerofish wrote:who says value has to be monetary anyway? the kid will only be 12 once. he has at most 5 years of childhood left and then its off to the mind-numbing 9-5 grind.

@ Carmanchu...

Holy Hell.

You have successfully turned this thread from discussing whats required to keep brick and mortar stores viable into a 5 page journal about your terrible fate as a gamer after all those bad bad men were mean to you in a store.

Seriously.. look at the myriad of doom and gloom woe is me emo kid stuff you've been saturating the thread with..

they always turn on you in the end no matter how much support you give them.

They want you around, they want your money. They start wanting you around to play and then......they shut down playing areas, they cut hours that you can play miniature games and eventually kick you to the curb
, no matter how loyal you are, they turn on you. So F'd them

Completely ignores the third factor- STore owners themselves whom treat their customers like crap or take them for granted and still whine and complain we should support the local FLGS

wasnt always an anti-FLGS person. That got earned. By those very same FLGS folks keep trying to say support while I say F'em.

Local businesses arent always worth supporting when their is no support in return. Encouragement doesnt always work when they want to be magic whores

What has to happen is if FLGS want loyalty and support they have to return it. Thats been VERY lacking in my years of playing. Hell lacking is putting it mildly, betrayal comes to mind.

Yes really. If you, as a store, are going to shove miniature playing times to wensday or thrusday from 6pm on to 9pm, and not allow it on saturday becuase of magic, dont expect nice terms from me.

heartserenade wrote:

Call me crazy, but I don't know, maybe it's because M:tG sells? They're a business. Catering to what sells and the crowd who buys it keep them staying afloat.


Then dont whine to me about supporting you. Again, that two way street thing. Last PP tournment I went to at a FLGS had mroe players then the magic one.

Unless of course, the store owner is a whiney, douchey, money grubbing bastard that will turn on you once they've made a buck on you.. Then hey, you should just smile and buy from them right? Not willing to have any real hours and drop you like a hot stone after getting any money from you.

There is NONE around. Out of the 2-3 stores around the story was all the same monkey poo in various forms. Including betrayal. I live in the ass end of gaming deadzone. Its the same with RPG gaming. None around really.

This isnt "one bad store treated me wrong." This is "all the stores around its the same crap."

1) People have gotten derailed time and time and time again to assure you they aren't talking about gakky stores deserving support, but you keep coming back to it. Were all sorry you seem to be a gakky-store seeking missile, but it isn't what this thread is about.

2) You mentioned you are a pleasure to be around, but to be honest, if 4 of 4 stores have turned on you, stabbed you in the back, decided you aren't worth the money you spend, decided to leave you be, then the issue may lie with you and not game store owners in general.

3) You mention a few times being disgusted by having to split store time with other game types or not having a schedule that benefits you being set in stone. I'm sure Mikhaila would agree, a store that puts all its eggs in one basket is a store that closes sooner rather than later. Especially the wargaming crowd, who usually have 1 or 2 big splurges followed by a long slowdown until they finish building and painting or need to expand. If a store can get money out of Magic, Yugi oh, Pokemon, Miniature Games, D&D, Board Games, and Cosplay your favorite carebear Dance Dance Revolution face offs, then so be it. Your owner is showing the ability to manage and nurture 7 communities instead of just one. Throwing a fit and quitting about store space being used for something other than your game makes you a 40 year old man with a bad case of entitlement and not the uber loyal customer you think you are.

4) A store owner only owes you a few things. A courteous demeanor, product knowledge, and a safe establishment if he allows in store gaming. Anything beyond that is icing on the cake. Interpreting anything more than that as lacking on his part is bogus on yours. It's true that the greatest of owners will allow little favors and be more like a friend from whom you buy things, but if you expect them to hurt their business to cater to you or to spend hours tweaking a schedule that makes you happy at the expense of other gaming communities and you are again acting like a very entitled 40 year old who had a mother that never told him no.

5) In regards to kids. It's absolutely cool that you don't want to spend your time with them. Play an adult or tell them you arent interested. That's fine. But it speaks volumes about your personality that you consider YOUR time worth more than anyone elses for any reason. If I have a higher paying job than yours and I work 10 more hours a week, should I feel like you are just in my way and I can bump you from a table because my time is worth more than yours? I mean hey, I make more money and have even less free time. That's the deciding factor, right? (Note: I know you didn't mention booting kids off tables, but your message is pretty similar.)

If the FLGS is going to survive it has to find a balance of being affordable while offering the amenities and atmosphere that makes it worth it to spend 10 dollars more in a store regularly. Hell, my FLGS owner came to my wedding, we call each other by first name, and I consider him a really good friend. And from time to time I still make an internet purchase. He didn't rip up my invite. He didn't kick me from the store. He didn't leave my Pathfinder group. If at least ONE owner exists like this, who isn't a backstabbing leech demon looking to hurt you with words and deed just to see your tears, then more must exist, right?

Keep this thread where it should be, talking about how to find both outstanding stores, how stores can stay alive, and how to nurture the customer/owner relationship. We don't need/want your sadness journal.

I want the flgs to survive that is why when ever I play a game at one I try to buy something everytime I play a game there.

Which is totally awesome.

I dont think they expect you to spend 50 dollars every time you enter the store. At least mine doesn't. Things like that get noticed I'm sure!

That is why game stores should offer snacks. Costs nearly nothing to stock a fridge with cans and a shelf with bags of chips, and the usual markup, even to less than convenience store prices, is big. Sell a gamer a can and some chips on a day they werent going to buy a fig, and you've made easy money you otherwise wouldn't have, kept them in the store instead of going across the street, and maybe made that sale on a fig because of it.

i've been in one of FLGS in Bangkok (I don't live there in the capitol!) and i've talked with the manager. he said that GW franchising doesn't work here. FLGS still has some way to prosper.

As a 99.9% (made up number) basement gamer, I realize my opinion of whether I'm obligated to buy my products from a chosen FLGS doesn't carry much weight, but here's my two cents anyway:

I'm a rather frugal person. If I can get discounts on things without a large loss of convenience, I will do so. I've never considered myself loyal enough to a business to go out of my way to give them money, especially if I don't see a valuable return on my investment. That said, I am fairly "loyal" to quite a few different businesses (both online and brick & mortar), because those businesses have treated me well and have provided consistently good service/products. Therefore, when I'm looking for a service/product, I will almost always seek out businesses that have my "loyalty."

I treat all FLGS the same way. If an FLGS has something that I want to buy, and provides me with quality service and a friendly atmosphere, I will continue to give that store my patronage when I want to buy that product/service. However, if I can get an overall better value for what I want by purchasing online, I will do so (unless there's a large enough inconvenience factor) - yet if the FLGS offers something else that I want (such as snacks/services while using their tables) that I cannot get online, I will of course continue to pay for such things.

As for "keeping the store open" being a factor in the value of the service I'm getting, I'll repeat that I'm mostly a basement gamer, so unfortunately keeping local independent retailers open is not that important to me. I certainly consider it, but doesn't have the sort of monolithic importance to me that it has to gamers whose primary gaming space is their FLGS.

-Loki- wrote:That is why game stores should offer snacks. Costs nearly nothing to stock a fridge with cans and a shelf with bags of chips, and the usual markup, even to less than convenience store prices, is big. Sell a gamer a can and some chips on a day they werent going to buy a fig, and you've made easy money you otherwise wouldn't have, kept them in the store instead of going across the street, and maybe made that sale on a fig because of it.

actually in most places it DOES cost to keep snacks. aside from power costs some countries and cities tax you differently and will need specific storage display guidelines followed if youre offering food. Dunno how it works in your country but in some places the taxes can be prohibitive.

If we can debate the point and lay off the digs and personal attacks please.

ta.

The Instore campaign was a good way to garner interest in the game of choice. Map based, campaign based, planetary based, they all pretty much take alot of work, but when everyone pulls in, the game is pretty damn cool. Played one where we started from squad, then to platoon, then to company, then to full on planetary assult.

Was a great time to be had, and it wouldn't have happened if the store wasn't involved.

painting events, then to the gaming events.....



I love the stores that give a damn.

Bakerofish wrote:
Time is time. It's pointless arguing who's time is more valuable as it all boils down to perspective anyway. No one can say theirs is more valuable.

well...i make exceptions for terminal patients and bomb squad guys on duty.

I have to disagree if you have 10+ free hours a day and someone else only has 1 than it can be reasonably argued that the person with only 1 hour does have more valuable time. It is simply because they have less of it. Perhaps valuable is not the best way to put it but it does get the point across.

Another way to put it would be that it is far easier for someone with more free time to prioritize things into their schedule and accept a 20 minute wait for something.

carmachu wrote:

Grot 6 wrote:

I find a douche store. What do I have to do to turn that around to make it a place that I'd want to come back to, aside from the obvious telling the oppressed owner to take a bath?

Supposidly, if you act with rainbows and puppies type attitude, it will get you in the good graces of the staff, and they will in turn treat you better. Or at least its been said in the thread here.

I'm not a game-store employee - but I have worked in restaurants and retail for many a year. And... yeah, service workers are almost always going to go farther for a friendly customer than a grump, much less a screamin' mimi.

There are, of course, exceptions. Some employees can't be bothered no matter how nice you are, and some go all-out for everyone. But in general the customer attitude does impact the service given.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Thunderfrog5 wrote: If I have a higher paying job than yours and I work 10 more hours a week, should I feel like you are just in my way and I can bump you from a table because my time is worth more than yours? I mean hey, I make more money and have even less free time. That's the deciding factor, right? (Note: I know you didn't mention booting kids off tables, but your message is pretty similar.)

Okay, I think you're reading a bit much into this. I don't bump kids off the table they're playing on (and I'll bet carmachu doesn't either); I simply will not join them for a game. I loathe kids with the fire of a thousand suns (which is why I went and married a woman who cannot have and does not want kids... but that's off the subject) and it takes a kid who is mature far beyond their years to not instantly set my temper on 'hair trigger' and cause me to walk away.

Hailey at our FLGS is one such kid, and do enjoy playing her.

Fortunately, there are others at our FLGS who are better with kids and I let them handle the ones I cannot stand. It's better that way all around.

I'll yield the point that my time is more valuable than a kids to me and probably not to anyone else.

I have only recently started attending a FLGS and I must say I've been really impressed with the entire experience.

I've usually only tabletop game with a group of 7 or so close mates in a garage but when I branched out into Warmachine on my own I had to look elsewhere for games. The owner of my FLGS went above and beyond to help intodruce me to the game, new players and events that I could participate in. Not once did he try push products on me, infact he laminated all my stat cards for free and gave me a couple of whiteboard markers along with it, even though I hadn't purchased those products in his store.

Since that day every warmachine product I order comes through his store, and although its a good 20% - 30% more than what I pay online I'm still willing to use him as I'd gladly pay that extra for the service he provides. I'm sure if all FLGS operated like this most people would feel the same way.

I also agree however that If the guy running the place is a bad owner, just don't use the store rather than sitting around mooching off him.