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In 5th edition I liked to put adrenal glands on Trygons for the initiative of 5. But now that they do not give an initiative bonus is there any good reason to take adrenal glands on a Trygon?

Hulksmash wrote:Holy jesus! Shep's alive! And yeah, as far as stealers go a change in playstyle is needed.

6th has activated my reanimation protocols, probably only to play casually.

I'm actually having a little bit of seller's remorse after dumping my nids. You have beautiful models for tervigons and t-fexes. harpies are quite playable and will probably get a new model very soon. You've got a plastic hive tyrant/swarmlord, and the tyrant or swarmlord in a unit of tyrant guard, or with wings is pretty serious.

The army took a kick in the toxin sac on allies, but overall it might have gotten the most boost out of any book. I'm not sure where that puts them competitively, but I would be both excited and confident were I going to start putting 6th ed lists together for nids.

Armored shell tyrant with guard, trading in his powers for some rolls on the new powers, seems pretty fun. As far as I can tell, monstrous creatures don't have any special considerations for getting cover saves, you can use model gaps to count for cover. Plus now he has a 2+ look out sir? If that doesn't work out, just fly around with the flyrant, that is definitely going to work.

Tervigons are character MCs now, so pick out those power fist sergeants. Feel no pain on itself is just a striaght up 5+ save you can take after your cover save. Termagants that are nearby won't doom you to fearless saves, in fact they will tarpit the hell out of things.

tyranid primes are challenge winners, ignoring that new hotness 2+ armor. And thanks to the fearless fix he can live in a termagant unit if he wants.

Hive guard got better at killing light armor, but awesomely, just aren't needed.

Zoanthropes can have a lot of fun changing in their powers for the new ones.

Genestealers will have better run rolls and more consistently good charge distances (even if they can't run and then charge), they can take apart rear armor 10 and the broodlord is a challenge machine. Rolling on biomancy can make some dirty dirty things happen for the stealer unit.

We already talked about termagants, hitting vehicles on 3s opens up an option for them to charge vehicles and super fearless just owns so much.

The harpy doesn't just instantly die anymore, thats about as far as I've gotten thinking about it.

Gargoyles got an extra strength 3 auto-hit if they are close enough for a short charge.

Carnifex just crap all over vehicles, and double brainleech worms is a cute answer for flyers.

Its possible to experiment with different T-fex builds now that nids don't have to shoot vehicles to kill them. High toughness mixed with 2+ saves is a potent combination. And I've always wanted to lay out that acid spray on a unit hiding behind a vehicle trying to score.


Unfortunately, I still think that the T3 and T4 multi-wounders are too fragile thanks to that stupid instant death rule. But I don't think flyers are a concern, carpet the table early with models, and get your MCs to table center, flyers won't be able to move their minimum distance/turn and keep you in their sights. If any vendettas hover, then just munch on them with charges, or maybe glance them with some shooting if you chose to take any.

Have fun guys!

I just started playing 40k this year and in fact the first warhammer game every. From watching people play and learning some of the armies I wanted to play nids. Now I only have 1000 to 1250 points and I dont have a MC in my army. Now I read every thing in this thread and I didnt see anyone talk about how the Warriors got a buff. And I dont see a lot of people on other forums even using Venomthrope when it is so mush better now. Whips have got a huge buff to and I learned that after fighting Necro Wraths.

The why Warriors got a buff is only when they are paird with the Prime. First is the Prime gets Whips/Bonesword, Deathspitter, and Regeneration making him 110 points. Then a Brood of 3 warriors one with a Venom cannon and TS, and the other two have Whips/Boneswords, scything talons, and TS. And you have the Prime join the Warriors and you have a 4 man broodthat will hit hard in CC. The Venom cannon used to weaken enemy troops, pop light tanks, or try and hurt a high T enemy. The Whips make enemies I 1 even if they charge you so you still go first in CC and let you kill the first rank or even the second rank of enemies and due the to new 3 in" move in CC less guys get to hit you and you loss take less wounds. And Warriors can turn in to a gun line if you fill you need a gun line. Just drop the scything talons and give 2 of them Deathspitters for 9 S5 BS4 shots killing a good amount of enemies (this idea is better if your fighing low AS enemies like Orks and Elder). The Prime is a IC so put him in the front to take all the S8 shots and look out sir the weaker shots with his AS 3 and move the woundes to the other three Warriors starting with the venom cannon first sinces he is weaker in CC. This set up makes them a 260 to 270 point anti infatry forces and anti-light armour killers. The Prime is a great challenger in CC with the Boneswords having a changes to killing them out right even with just one wound.

The Venomthrope is good cuz of its 6" 5+ cover save it gives to every nid in its little bubble. The 5+ cover save helps the Termagunts in the front that are used for sheilds for my other units. Just one Termagunt in rang of the Venomthrope they all get a 5+ cover save and the guys behide the Termagunts have a 5+ cover save cuz the gunts are in the way to shot them. And the large amount of gants in the front all so stop a enemy charge army like Orks from hitting you main forces by blocking them and fouces each one to take dangerours terrain text and you get overwatch with the gants so you get a higher chanes to kill a few before CC even starts.

Genestealers did get a nerf but there are still Ymgarl Genestealers that are place in area turrain after all deployment meaning you can set them next to a objective or right next to a enemy unit thats just going to set there and shot all day. Once they show up you can still move them and assault in to CC. Thanks to thier Alter Form they can take out light armour, take on stronger enemies, or get more attackes every combat. Sure they are 23 points each but if you field 3 units of 5 and have them all in Dormant then the enemy doesnt want to stay in an area terrain unless he can cover the whole terrain witch is hard with so armies. And thanks to the new rule where if you charge A guy out of terrain you can not charging in to terrain just move the Ymgarl's out of terrain and charge the guy out of terrain for a I6 first strick CC.

I see why MC are good for tank killers but I still see the Hive Guard as the best anit-tank units. Remember its TLoS now so you have to see it to shot it Hive Guard dont have that so but it in a terrain that no one can see him and let him set there and shot the enemies armour. De to the lurk rule he can stay in the terrain and shot at the closest enemy so he doesnt have to be in synapse to be usable. If you need to move he up just have him play hop hip from cover to cover making him a moving shotting platform that what he is anyway. He has a S8 gun so he can glance any vehicle in the game even AV14 on a 6 and he needs 3s to hit so its a good modle to me for 50 points each.

Hormagants I think got a buff/nerf. They cannt run and charge the same turn no more but rage gives them +2 attacks for a total of 4 attacks. Now that AG dont give them +1I I dont pay it that mush and just give them TS. I havent tryed it yet but I will try to get them out of synapse for the +2 attackes but keep them close to the Venomthrope for a 5+ cover save.

After looking in the nid codex the power Onslaught jumped out at me. It lets one brood move, shot, and run in one turn. It also says "A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the Fleet ablity". this means you hit a Hormagant brood, Tryigon, Raveners, and Genestealers can move, shot (not the gants), run, then assault. The rule book even says the codex rulse come first and the Onslaught is a codex rule so it comes first and over rides the rule books rules so nids still have a few units that have a very very long rang to assault like a max rang of 24" and sinces all these units have fleet they can re-roll any bad run or assault roll you want. This gives nids the longest assault rang out of any army being able to cove more then half the board in one turn and still getting in CC.

Now I dont have a rule book and im going off memory from playing like 4 battles with the new rules all of witch are 1000 point games.

Elite Master wrote: Hormagants I think got a buff/nerf. They cannt run and charge the same turn no more but rage gives them +2 attacks for a total of 4 attacks. Now that AG dont give them +1I I dont pay it that mush and just give them TS. I havent tryed it yet but I will try to get them out of synapse for the +2 attackes but keep them close to the Venomthrope for a 5+ cover save.

I disagree about hormagaunts not benefiting AG. Since they are already initiative 5 they will tie or beat most other units in initiative order. So loosing that was not a big deal. But they need AG becuase without them they cannot threaten vehicles. Also they are much more dangerous to Marines (which are often are most common opponent). Look at the comparison of what hormagaunts can do with AG:

15 Hormagaunts with toxin sacs and rage:

Against Space Marines: 60 attacks, 35 hits, 17.5 wounds, 5.83 kills
Against vehicles with rear armor of ten (which is most vehicles): 60 attacks, 45 hits, 0 glancing hits

Compare this with the same point value with AG

12 Hormagaunts with toxin sacs, AG and rage:

Against Space Marines: 48 attacks, 28 hits, 21 wounds, 7 kills
Against vehicles with rear armor of ten (which is most vehicles): 48 attacks, 36 hits, 6 glancing hits= 6 hull point.

So unless you are planning to use Hormagaunts as a meat shield, you are always better off to take them with TS and AG.

Lurking Hive Guard cannot fire at something they can't see. They still need Synapse coverage.

A few things, already covered was that hive guard cannot shoot when lurking (this is in the Nid FAQ). You also mention the venomthrope gives 5+ cover save to a whole squad even if 1 model is in the 6 inch bubble but with the focus fire rule then people can just choose to not fire at that 1 model and shoot the rest of the sqaud with no cover save.

As for onslaught clearly the power is mentioning the fleet ability in reference to 5th edition rules. You cannot run and assult with this and only TFG would argue that point in a game (in my opinion i dont mean to be rude).

As a Nid play i wish this wasn't the case but ya gotta call it as it is.

I think a lot of people dont relies how good tyranids are with all these psychic powers! especially the swarmlord because he has access to the warp charge 2 telepathy powers.
with hallucinations you can pin down a unit or even let every model hit his own squad with his best close combat weapon! I made a palladin squad with grand master do nothing for 2 turns and then let them hit themselfs with powerweapons/daemonhammers. Thats power! I also really like "puppet master " once let a Dreadknight flame dowm his own henchman squad.

a lot of armies will take eldar allies to make sure the got the runes but tyranids can take a few perils.

Not sure I'd go as far as saying stealers are better than before. The mass stealer list is dead as it did rely on outflank to some extent. While I know most people placed armies to avoid an assault from the side, the threat of outflank could be used to force their deployment and that in itself was a benefit of stealers.

I was initially excited about the Broodlord and his psychi abilities, but that BS0 problem has killed that one for me.

Troops for me will be tervigons and termagants, both of which seem even more full of win now we've lost fearless wounds.

Flyers I am concerned about, but that may just be until I get chance to play against a lot of them. Mass TL devourers does seem to be the best route on first thoughts.

Some random musings after my first 6th games:

I'm really unlucky with psychic powers. In one game I failed to get Endurance or Iron Arm on 4 psykers despite all of them rolling 2-4 dice on Biomancy. Despite that, a Swarmlord with Warp Speed is insane (especially for challenges), and even less desirable powers like Enfeeble are good for halting approaching units.

The Tyrannofex is a solid linebreaker, even without FNP. Cover it with a Venomthrope and his 2+/5+ saves will see off most threats while being resistant to assault. Acid Spray is also great for clearing out entrenched units who think they're safe (such as Pathfinders) as you advance.

Genestealers are definitely my new favourite vehicle hunters. GS with AG can infiltrate and threaten any advancing transports, forcing them to turn around or risk being caught out. Ymgarls can perform a similar role only with far more surprise behind them.

Devilguants can also abuse the new glancing rules to ruin light vehicles/squadrons. A spore pod can land in a vulnerable position and put down 60 shots on AV10 averaging ~5 glances, making them great for countering backfield weapons like War Walkers or artillery.

Now I'm just waiting on my flyrant to arrive for further experimenting...

I see why you would give Hormagaunts AG but i dont want to spend 10 points on each one of them when im just going to have them attack infantry only now if i have the points ill throwe the AG on them.

If one Termagant is in the 6" bubble then the units gets a 5 + cover save so you cannt foces fire them if they all get a 5+ cover save its even in the FAQ under the Venomthropes Spore Cloud. "the Venomthrope unit and all friendly units within 6" of the unit have a 5+ cover save against any shotting attackes."

I missed the FAQ about the Hive Guard not being about to shot the guys he cannt see my bad but he is (to me) a good choices for taking out tanks and other high T enemies.

Elite Master wrote:

After looking in the nid codex the power Onslaught jumped out at me. It lets one brood move, shot, and run in one turn. It also says "A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the Fleet ablity". this means you hit a Hormagant brood, Tryigon, Raveners, and Genestealers can move, shot (not the gants), run, then assault. The rule book even says the codex rulse come first and the Onslaught is a codex rule so it comes first and over rides the rule books rules so nids still have a few units that have a very very long rang to assault like a max rang of 24" and sinces all these units have fleet they can re-roll any bad run or assault roll you want. This gives nids the longest assault rang out of any army being able to cove more then half the board in one turn and still getting in CC.

Sadly, Onslaught got a new line in the FAQ, we can't assault after shooting. We are still, however, ridiculously fast with the power, and it definitely puts a unit right up in the enemies face... not necessarily the best thing.

my first two games allowed me to learn a few things.

1) my inability to roll a 2+ to either save wounds or pass them on allowed my expensive tyrant to die earlier than he should have

2) Gnats are getting rediculous at clogging up the battle field. I'm likely going to meed another tervi or two, and start working on a bucket of bugs.

3) Try as I might I couldn't stop a stormraven.

Acardia wrote:my first two games allowed me to learn a few things.

1) my inability to roll a 2+ to either save wounds or pass them on allowed my expensive tyrant to die earlier than he should have

2) Gnats are getting rediculous at clogging up the battle field. I'm likely going to meed another tervi or two, and start working on a bucket of bugs.

3) Try as I might I couldn't stop a stormraven.

1.) Bad dice are bad dice some games.

2.) Yes. In 5th i had a 66% chance the game would rely on objectives to win, but now there is a 84% chance objectives are the key. That plus it seems like more models have to get OUT of tanks to score/be effective, so our anti-infantry has targets now!

3.) Skyfire nexus objective, twin-linked brainleech worms, vector strikes with a flyrant...pray? AV 12/12/12 flyer is a tough combatant to deal with, you could always spend 100 points on an aegis defense line w/ quad gun. The gun would be forced to auto-fire though, as no tyranid models are allowed to fire weapons manually as per the FAQ. Still BS 2 twin-linked s7 is a better shot than nothing.

Sadly, Onslaught got a new line in the FAQ, we can't assault after shooting. We are still, however, ridiculously fast with the power, and it definitely puts a unit right up in the enemies face... not necessarily the best thing.

I just looked it up in the FAQ and the only thing i see about the Onslaught power is the Tervigon cannt shot or assault. This is what the FAQ says about Onslaught.

"Q: Can a Tervigon who has used the Onslaught psychic power (a psychic shotting attack) on a friendly Tyranid unit, fire a weapon at an enemy unit or launch an assault in the same turn. A: No"

To me this is only talking about the Tervigon not the units that Onslaught was used on. Sinces the Onslaught power is a shotting attack and your shotting an ally unit you cannt assault an ally units and you are already shotting and you have to shot the same unit you are shotting with every weapon so you cannt shot you weapons that hurt you on units.

So you can cast Onslaught on a unit with fleet and can still move run and assault and if they have a gun you can shot to.

Elite Master wrote:So you can cast Onslaught on a unit with fleet and can still move run and assault and if they have a gun you can shot to.

No.
A unit under the effect of Onslaught may not assault unless it also has the Fleet ability.
Onslaught stops you from charging if you do not have Fleet.
So if you have Fleet, you are not stopped from charging by Onslaught.
Unfortunately the BRB says you cannot run and assault. Fleet does not override that.

Zookie wrote:In 5th edition I liked to put adrenal glands on Trygons for the initiative of 5. But now that they do not give an initiative bonus is there any good reason to take adrenal glands on a Trygon?

Bring Toxin Sacs. Against almost everything you have a rerollable 3 to hit, not you also get a rerollable 2 thanks to how poison changed. It is also great against other monsters as you get to reroll your wounds against their toughness. I took adrenal glands off all my Trygons and added Toxin Sacs. Smash attack offsets any losses from -1S.

Elite Master wrote:

Sadly, Onslaught got a new line in the FAQ, we can't assault after shooting. We are still, however, ridiculously fast with the power, and it definitely puts a unit right up in the enemies face... not necessarily the best thing.

I just looked it up in the FAQ and the only thing i see about the Onslaught power is the Tervigon cannt shot or assault. This is what the FAQ says about Onslaught.

"Q: Can a Tervigon who has used the Onslaught psychic power (a psychic shotting attack) on a friendly Tyranid unit, fire a weapon at an enemy unit or launch an assault in the same turn. A: No"

To me this is only talking about the Tervigon not the units that Onslaught was used on. Sinces the Onslaught power is a shotting attack and your shotting an ally unit you cannt assault an ally units and you are already shotting and you have to shot the same unit you are shotting with every weapon so you cannt shot you weapons that hurt you on units.

So you can cast Onslaught on a unit with fleet and can still move run and assault and if they have a gun you can shot to.

Yes this was my bad, I mis-remembered the part in the FAQ. Rigeld2 summed it up nicely for me though just a few posts above.

Elite Master wrote:I see why you would give Hormagaunts AG but i dont want to spend 10 points on each one of them when im just going to have them attack infantry only now if i have the points ill throwe the AG on them.

If one Termagant is in the 6" bubble then the units gets a 5 + cover save so you cannt foces fire them if they all get a 5+ cover save its even in the FAQ under the Venomthropes Spore Cloud. "the Venomthrope unit and all friendly units within 6" of the unit have a 5+ cover save against any shotting attackes."

I missed the FAQ about the Hive Guard not being about to shot the guys he cannt see my bad but he is (to me) a good choices for taking out tanks and other high T enemies.

Don't believe focus fire gets around that, as it provides the UNIT, not the MODEL with 5+ cover save. So all models in the unit get the five+ cover save.

barnowl wrote:

Elite Master wrote:I see why you would give Hormagaunts AG but i dont want to spend 10 points on each one of them when im just going to have them attack infantry only now if i have the points ill throwe the AG on them.

If one Termagant is in the 6" bubble then the units gets a 5 + cover save so you cannt foces fire them if they all get a 5+ cover save its even in the FAQ under the Venomthropes Spore Cloud. "the Venomthrope unit and all friendly units within 6" of the unit have a 5+ cover save against any shotting attackes."

I missed the FAQ about the Hive Guard not being about to shot the guys he cannt see my bad but he is (to me) a good choices for taking out tanks and other high T enemies.

Don't believe focus fire gets around that, as it provides the UNIT, not the MODEL with 5+ cover save. So all models in the unit get the five+ cover save.

I think you misunderstand how 6th edition wound allocation works - individual models must now have cover to claim a save. the old 50% of unit has cover = everyone gets cover no longer applies.

Those are the core rules, but this is a special rule and I think it overrides the BRB.

The Venomthrope rule gives cover to the entire unit. Which means Focus Fire won't help. Yay cover saves.

I totally misread that entire post.

Yeah I agree If 1 model is in range of the venomthrope bubble they all get 5+ cover. In addition to that, should they be assaulted the enemy won't receive any bonus attacks for charging and take dangerous terrain tests (that allow armor saves now in 6th, so that's not as good as it was).

Played a game vs space wolves last night, using a different list. Found that my unit of shrikes and the parasite did wonderful going in and hunting vehicles, as did my ymargyl.

Tyrgons are so slow now, they don't have the super speed they used to, and that's disappointing.

Going to have to look at the list of targeting psychic powers from units. If I can spread essentially use 3 different blessings on 3 different units from the squad.

This thread is great. It's nice to see constructive thought on the matter than DOOM !!!

Wht of the Deathleaper then? I want to bring him just to make people like Draigo and Eldrad have -D3 Ld.... would he be worth his points? He kinda is now but....

Vendetta1221 wrote:Wht of the Deathleaper then? I want to bring him just to make people like Draigo and Eldrad have -D3 Ld.... would he be worth his points? He kinda is now but....

He gets a 2+ cover save most of the time now, but they no longer roll for night fighting. Tried him out in a few games but he gets easily shot at by Psifledreads and missiles now - and you only need to fail 1 of those 2+ saves to lose a 140pt model.

Deathleaper strikes me as being potentially deadly vs vehicles now with the new hull point rules and the WS for moving/not moving vehicles.

I suppose he could and always has nommed vehicles easily...but you reckon he's gonna be worth it now? He' almost the price of a Carnie...

Well, assuming that he still halves the distance that a unit shoots at him for Night fight, you have to within 12" to not give him a 2++, and after 18" he cant be shot! Thats gold, Id just take second turn with him and shut down a psyker, and then turn 5 pop up right next to an objective and deny it.

jifel wrote:Well, assuming that he still halves the distance that a unit shoots at him for Night fight, you have to within 12" to not give him a 2++, and after 18" he cant be shot! Thats gold, Id just take second turn with him and shut down a psyker, and then turn 5 pop up right next to an objective and deny it.

FAQ changed it so that he just gets the Shrouded special rule.