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The deathleaper has both Stealth and Shroud which stack. So out in the open he still has a 4+ cover save and in most cover he would have a 2+. It doesn't feel as strong as the half night fighting rule but it still provides him with some saves until he can get into CC. And of course the -D3 to leadership is always great especially with the emphasis on psykers this edition seems to have.

jifel wrote:Well, assuming that he still halves the distance that a unit shoots at him for Night fight, you have to within 12" to not give him a 2++, and after 18" he cant be shot! Thats gold, Id just take second turn with him and shut down a psyker, and then turn 5 pop up right next to an objective and deny it.

There is an FAQ already. No more night fighting distance modifier. Its just shrouded + stealth

Shep wrote:I'm actually having a little bit of seller's remorse after dumping my nids.

You sold that beautifully painted hive guard shep? What the hell!

Two questions:

First:

With vehicles being a little more fragile due to hull points is a heavy venom cannon a better weapon now? It seems to me that with chances to hit being so much higher for a stranglethorn cannon and that it does not have a penetration penalty, the might out due the heavy venom cannon against AV 10 and 11. Am I wrong or is there not a real good reason to take a heavy venom canno

Second:

Are Hive guard as not as necessary now? Now that it is not that hard to glance things to death?

Personally, I don't think hive guard are necessary now. Then again, I never thought they were. but the HVC is still a better choice for AT because of the strength 9, but stranglethorn can pin enemy infantry. you shouldn't be relying on HVC for AT though, so I'd take the stranglethorn.

VC was a poor gun and still is. in 6ed you either penetrate and wreck the vehicle, or glance it to death with multiple hits. VC does neither.

Just bring a few harpies w/ TL stranglethorns and maybe regen...

First a response:

Acardia wrote:

Going to have to look at the list of targeting psychic powers from units. If I can spread essentially use 3 different blessings on 3 different units from the squad.

Yes, Blessings and Maledictions are made at the start of the movement phase before any models move. They are not restricted to targeting a single unit if you have a unit of psykers (3 zoanthropes, for example). Witchfire powers however count as shooting attacks and must be all targeted at the same unit.

And now some thoughts on tyranids in 6th edition:

Alright where to begin? Let's start with a big one: Hordes are viable now! In 5th edition, or rhinohammer, imperial armies and a few xenos like tau and eldar could stay bunkered up in their transport vehicles ALL GAME with no drawback - they could assault from them if necessary, and score objectives (after tank-shocking foot troops off of the same objective). In addition to the hull point system that is a great "3 strikes and you're wrecked" for most transports, the game itself is an objective match 5/6 of the time. Horde nids EXCEL at multiple objective games, because our troops are cheap and useful at the same time, plus we have a troop Monstrous creature that MAKES MORE TROOPS. Furthermore, since models can no longer score from inside a vehicle, or launch an assault in their subsequent assault phase after they disembark (barring open-topped), Imperial and xenos alike will be on foot more often than before - giving nids proper targets for our anti-infantry.

Glancing hits will wreck a tank. Here's a scenario - a Tervigon with adrenal glands spawns an average brood of 11 termagants. These gants appear within 6", move 6", and assault a tank 2d6". Assuming they get average rolling, they will surround the rhino/razorback sized tank. 22 Attacks that hit on 3+, then as long as we can roll 3 6's to glance the tank is DEAD and so are the guys inside (surrounded)! This tactic alone lets me make lists that don't revolve around hive guard or zoanthropes.

Psychic powers - Biomancy is where it's at. Any Monstrous Creature with access to the new powers should go biomancy, no question. I've even started purchasing a 3rd power for my tervigons (pssht onslaught) to get an extra roll on the biomancy table for them. Endurance > Catalyst. Why? 2x the range, and gives eternal warrior so s6+ doesn't negate the feel no pain on termagants. Also It will not die - Regen on a 5+? Hooray! Life Leech - double the strength of leech essence with the same range. Every biomancy power is useful, even hemorrhage vs certain armies (less so vs space marines but that's why we can switch to smite).

I could go on and on but i've had smashing success the past 3 games i've used my 'nids in 6th and i expect more once i have the $$ to get some of the new flashy plastic kits like the flying tyrant and the tervigon/t-fex.

My cautious optimism for tyranids in 6th is growing to just plain old optimism.

tetrisphreak wrote: Endurance > Catalyst. Why? 2x the range, and gives eternal warrior so s6+ doesn't negate the feel no pain on termagants. Also It will not die - Regen on a 5+? Hooray! Life Leech - double the strength of leech essence with the same range.

How does endurance give eternal warrior?

puree wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: Endurance > Catalyst. Why? 2x the range, and gives eternal warrior so s6+ doesn't negate the feel no pain on termagants. Also It will not die - Regen on a 5+? Hooray! Life Leech - double the strength of leech essence with the same range.

How does endurance give eternal warrior?

Also, EW doesn't stop the ID from denying FnP.

tetrisphreak wrote:Glancing hits will wreck a tank. Here's a scenario - a Tervigon with adrenal glands spawns an average brood of 11 termagants. These gants appear within 6", move 6", and assault a tank 2d6". Assuming they get average rolling, they will surround the rhino/razorback sized tank. 22 Attacks that hit on 3+, then as long as we can roll 3 6's to glance the tank is DEAD and so are the guys inside (surrounded)! This tactic alone lets me make lists that don't revolve around hive guard or zoanthropes.

Note, that at least one termigant still needs to be within 6" of a tervigon when the termigants make thier close combat attacks for the unit to benefit from poison or furious charge (this is per the FAQ). This is going to be more difficult with a 2D6 assualt range followed by another 3" movement during thier initiative step in the fight sub-phase. I expect our congo lines will likely get more spread out. Of course, MC no longer fear fearless wounds...so there may be case where you would want to throw Mr. Big at the same target. Finally our MC can do what they need to do...support the little buggers when needed.

puree wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: Endurance > Catalyst. Why? 2x the range, and gives eternal warrior so s6+ doesn't negate the feel no pain on termagants. Also It will not die - Regen on a 5+? Hooray! Life Leech - double the strength of leech essence with the same range.

How does endurance give eternal warrior?

It doesn't. My fault. Iron Arm gives EW.

Still the range difference and the It Will Not Die make the spell better than catalyst.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

rigeld2 wrote:

puree wrote:

tetrisphreak wrote: Endurance > Catalyst. Why? 2x the range, and gives eternal warrior so s6+ doesn't negate the feel no pain on termagants. Also It will not die - Regen on a 5+? Hooray! Life Leech - double the strength of leech essence with the same range.

How does endurance give eternal warrior?

Also, EW doesn't stop the ID from denying FnP.

Stated above, endurance doesn't give EW.

However, EW is worded as such : "A model with this special rule is immune to the effects of instant death."

One of the effects of instant death is denying FNP, which EW would make the model immune to. Hence, Feel No Pain rolls allowed.

tetrisphreak wrote:One of the effects of instant death is denying FNP, which EW would make the model immune to. Hence, Feel No Pain rolls allowed.

No, that's a function of FnP, not an effect of Instant Death.
You can tell because it's listed under FnP not Instant Death.

Hrm...you are making sense, rigeld2. I concede the point to you sir.

Overall it's an irrelevant point though because hormagaunts/termagants don't have and cannot get eternal warrior anyhow.

I may be wrong in this... but aren't CC attacks vs. vehicles now made against the facing armor... not automatically the rear armor? If so, this would greatly reduce the number of potential termigant attacks that could glance the vehicle.

... or am I deluded?

Page 76, still against rear amor.

Man... don't know where I'm getting these ideas from. Just too much information I guess.

See I personally am still in the camp that doesn't put biomancy on my tervigons. Sure with 3 powers it is 50/50 I get the power that is the better version of catalyst, but when I don't? Then my stuff is vulnerable. I need to be sure I can get my powers off and that is worth sacrificing a few tervigon buffs. Plus, I keep them back, close enough to buff but too far back to get charged. Also, onslaught. Biomancy is not worth losing the best power in the book. Onslaught lets hive guard get even better positions and turns dakkafexs from silly good to just plain bonkers.

Am I the only one who thinks Telekinesis is great for Tervigons? Objuration Mechanicum effectively cancels Overwatch, Gate of Infinity lets you spawn all over the board, Telekine dome gives your gaunts an 5++ save that reflects shots, and even shock wave has a chance of pinning everyone within 12".


Automatically Appended Next Post:
It's still gaunt support, just in a different form.

Basically, cover the board with hoard.

L'Etat C'Est Moi wrote:Sure with 3 powers it is 50/50 I get the power that is the better version of catalyst, but when I don't? Then my stuff is vulnerable.

Edit: I was thinking you got to choose a power if any doubles were rolled. I was corrected, you reroll instead . With that in mind, I think I will just stick with catalyst on my tervies personally and save myself the points.

Hive Tyrant or Brood Lord I would still favor Biomancy. Toughness tests are fairly easy to pass, making Haemorrage meh. With cover and FNP present in a lot of armies, lifeleach and smite are alot less impresive, especially given our crappy BS of 3. However, both of these guys would benefit from warpspeed (more for the extra attacks) and iron arm, whereas endurance and enfeeble are great support powers. Dropping palidins to Toughness 3 and then smacking them with lots of ID causing brain leech devourers sounds like great fun. That makes 4 out of 6 rolls preferable and can be cast even when locked in combat to boot.

For telekensis, the primaris power has its use due to strikedown halving initiative and being a beam attack, but won't help when assaulting into difficult terrain and of course can't be used when locked in assault. 5+ cover is still plentiful in this edition and now MC have easy access thanks to screening units, meaning telekine dome shouldn't be that nessesary. Crush is too random, while shockwave has too low of a strength and pinning tests are fairly easy to make. Vortex would be a reroll, leaving you with Gate of Infinity (good for undefended objective grabs or moving devourers in range of pesky flyers) and objuration mechanicum (a pretty easy way to take a hull point off a flyer). So IMO, only 2 out of 5 rolls being preferable.

For Mr. Swarmie, Invisibility and Hallucination are both very tempting support abilities -- especially invisibility (drools); terrify is pretty situational as its main benefit seams to be nulifying horde-based, fearless tarpits. Puppet master would be great if it wasn't for his BS of 3. Given that most units have leaderships in the 8-9 range, dominate is more limited in scope. Mental fortitude isn't very useful to nids and psychic shriek again relies on a BS of 3. I think I would still stick with Biomancy and aim to get both Iron Arm and Endurance, hoping to roll them early and then switch to telepathy on any remaining rolls if lucky.

Sorry Its not like fantasy, if you roll a double you can't choose you just keep rolling till you don't get a duplicate.

I hate that psychic shriek requires a roll to -hit before the 3d6 - Ld wounds. Would be an excellent throwaway power on a flyrant since they get close *real* quick. But bs3 makes it a 50/50 shot even if the power goes off.

Zookie’s amazing Tyranid statistical analysis of random psychic powers.

The following is the odds of rolling an ability that will have this function (so this excludes primaris powers), and the odd or rolling it on your second roll (assuming that your first roll was a power in that discipline that did not have that function). All rolls are for pychers with a warp charge of one (sorry Swarmlord fans, but it was to keep this from getting longer than it already is.)

For Biomancy:

Blessing that affect the psycher only: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Blessing that affect the psycher’s squad only: None
Blessing that affect the friendly targeted squad (including self): First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Malediction that affects toughness value enemies only: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Malediction that affects leadship value enemies only: None
Malediction that affects toughness and armor value enemies: None
Range psychic attacks: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic attacks with focused witchfire attack: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic attacks with nova attack: None
Range psychic attacks with beam attack: None
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 3 on a 4+ or better: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 4 on a 4+ or better: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 5 on a 4+ or better: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 6 on a 4+ or better: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 6+ armor save: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 5+ armor save: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 4+ armor save: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 3+ armor save: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 2+ armor save: First roll 33%, Second roll 40%
Range psychic powers that can go through an invulnerable armor save: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 3 models: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 4 models: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 5 models: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 6+ models: None
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 10: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 11: First roll 16%, Second roll 20%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 12: None
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 13: None
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 14: None

For Telekinesis:

(Note: Crush attack were based on an average roll of S 7 AP 4)

Blessing that affect the psycher only: None
Blessing that affect the psycher’s squad only: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Blessing that affect the friendly targeted squad (including self): First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Malediction that affects toughness value enemies only: None
Malediction that affects leadship value enemies only: None
Malediction that affects toughness and armor value enemies: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic attacks: First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic attacks with focused witchfire attack: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic attacks with nova attack: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic attacks with beam attack: None
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 3 on a 4+ or better: First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 4 on a 4+ or better: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 5 on a 4+ or better: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 6 on a 4+ or better: None
Range psychic powers that can go through a 6+ armor save: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 5+ armor save: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 4+ armor save: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 3+ armor save: None
Range psychic powers that can go through a 2+ armor save: None
Range psychic powers that can go through an invulnerable armor save: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 3 models: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 4 models: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 5 models: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 6+ models: None
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 10: First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 11: First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 12: First roll 40%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 13: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 14: First roll 20%, Second roll 25%

For Telepathy:

(Note: Note Puppet Master is based on that any weapon in the game could be used, it is assumed that a missile launcher or better is the target)
Blessing that affect the psycher only: None

Blessing that affect the psycher’s squad only: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Blessing that affect the friendly targeted squad (including self): First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Malediction that affects toughness value enemies only: None
Malediction that affects leadership value enemies only: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Malediction that affects toughness and armor value enemies: None
Range psychic attacks: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic attacks with focused witchfire attack: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic attacks with nova attack: None
Range psychic attacks with beam attack: None
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 3 on a 4+ or better: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 4 on a 4+ or better: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 5 on a 4+ or better: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%%
Range psychic powers that can wound toughness 6 on a 4+ or better: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 6+ armor save: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 5+ armor save: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 4+ armor save: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 3+ armor save: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can go through a 2+ armor save: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can go through an invulnerable armor save: None
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 3 models: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 4 models: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 5 models: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can instantly kill toughness 6+ models: None
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 10: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 11: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 12: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 13: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%
Range psychic powers that can penetrate armor value 14: First roll 25%, Second roll 50%

Quick question about the swarmlord: am I correct on assuming he has no armour pen in combat? He's packing bonesabres, not boneswords, which only state that they cause ID and re roll invulnerable saves.

I had a read of the FAQ, and couldn't find anything. Though I am super blind at times, and may just have missed it.

jsenff wrote:Quick question about the swarmlord: am I correct on assuming he has no armour pen in combat? He's packing bonesabres, not boneswords, which only state that they cause ID and re roll invulnerable saves.

I had a read of the FAQ, and couldn't find anything. Though I am super blind at times, and may just have missed it.

He is an MC so all CC attacks are AP 2

Awesome. I knew that to be the case in 5th ed, but couldn't see that in 6th. Again, blind reading likely.
Thanks.

Zookie wrote:

jsenff wrote:Quick question about the swarmlord: am I correct on assuming he has no armour pen in combat? He's packing bonesabres, not boneswords, which only state that they cause ID and re roll invulnerable saves.

I had a read of the FAQ, and couldn't find anything. Though I am super blind at times, and may just have missed it.

He is an MC so all CC attacks are AP 2

Only if you use smash...

If it has smash all its CC attacks are AP2, additionally it can do the special smash attack w/ the double str and all that.

The new MC flier rules breathed new life into the harpy. How do you think is the best way to arm a harpy and why? Or if a option is situational what is a situation that you would choose that option?

Heavy Venom cannon or Barbed Strangler?

Stinging Salvo or Cluster Spines?

Adrenal Glands?

Toxic Sacs?

Regeneration?