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Really great breakdown for the powers Thanks!

feluca wrote:The chances of rolling 3 times the same result is very slim (1/6*1/6*1/6). Therefor, I see no reason to swap the Zoanthrope's psychic power for a random one, and much more likely to be worse or just situational.

Zoanthropes actually get 2 rolls, and must reroll 5's and 6's, so they each have a 50% chance of getting it. and against armies with big guns on single models, this power can wreak havoc. Imagine having a broadside shoot your three hammerheads in the rear armour, or a basilisk hitting your infantry platoon three times.

Hunchkrot wrote:

feluca wrote:The chances of rolling 3 times the same result is very slim (1/6*1/6*1/6). Therefor, I see no reason to swap the Zoanthrope's psychic power for a random one, and much more likely to be worse or just situational.

Zoanthropes actually get 2 rolls, and must reroll 5's and 6's, so they each have a 50% chance of getting it. and against armies with big guns on single models, this power can wreak havoc. Imagine having a broadside shoot your three hammerheads in the rear armour, or a basilisk hitting your infantry platoon three times.

Agreed but Zoanthropes are already solid anti tank, I'd rather be playing around with random powers on my broodlord.

feluca wrote:The chances of rolling 3 times the same result is very slim (1/6*1/6*1/6). Therefor, I see no reason to swap the Zoanthrope's psychic power for a random one, and much more likely to be worse or just situational.

It is not a matter of getting the same power on each Zoanthrope. It is the odds of getting a useful power on each. Also each Zoanthrope gets two rolls. So you are not hedging your bets on getting the same power on each (in fact you do not want that because many of the powers do not stack) but getting the same "type" of power. Odds are with 3 Zoanthrope's you will get at least two that both have a blessing or a malediction powers. At that point you have a powerful "bless" or "curse" unit. With the play testing I have done it has all panned out well. In is not that Zoanthropes (or any other model for that matter) is "better" or "worse" with random powers. It is that they become a different type of unit and you have to use them differently by but they are viable, and I think time will show us, competitive as well.


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Hunchkrot wrote:One point about puppet master that immensely improves it's usefulness: while a psyker can only cast it once per turn, three different psykers (zoan brood) can hit the same unit and make it perform three shooting attacks during your turn. Why hello there, Mister manticore missile launcher!

Wow! I did not think of that! For some reason I figured the power would not stack but you are right that is RAW. I suspect a FAQ may nerf this in the future but until then...


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Marrak wrote:Really great breakdown for the powers Thanks!

You are welcome


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Acardia wrote:

Hunchkrot wrote:

feluca wrote:The chances of rolling 3 times the same result is very slim (1/6*1/6*1/6). Therefor, I see no reason to swap the Zoanthrope's psychic power for a random one, and much more likely to be worse or just situational.

Zoanthropes actually get 2 rolls, and must reroll 5's and 6's, so they each have a 50% chance of getting it. and against armies with big guns on single models, this power can wreak havoc. Imagine having a broadside shoot your three hammerheads in the rear armour, or a basilisk hitting your infantry platoon three times.

Agreed but Zoanthropes are already solid anti tank, I'd rather be playing around with random powers on my broodlord.

True, but choosing random powers is all about being flexible. Since you do not have to declare using them as part of an army list you can switch it up on the fly. So at a tournament if you came up against a mech have IG list, you stick will the codex powers. You next game could be against Ork green tide and flyer spam, in that case warp lace won’t do you much good. Then the next game could be a Chaos rhino rush, were you can rely on glancing to kill vehicles and could use the buffs and curses. Like I have said earlier, it is not about “better” it is just different.

Just a quick point to make (We have been pouring over the new rules at The Hive).

Infiltrate says:
Under Infiltrate USR *pg 38 paragraph 4:
"A unit which deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn."

A turn doesn't mean what it used to mean. Turn is defined diffrently then a Game Turn. The rule book is very specific. There are even a set list of things that have to be done in the first turn...
pg 122 under First Turn, in bold:
"Next the player who deployed his army first starts the first turn unless his opponent can Seize the Initiative."

So what it means is that the first player turn of the game (Top of the first turn) you can not assault. After that you can assault your infiltrators. It is there to stop the person who goes first from deploying his infiltrators and attacking with them before the other player has a chance to react. (IE. I deploy, you deploy. I put in my infiltrators and go first and run right into your transport so it is WS0 because it didn't move.)

Still sucks that you can't assault out of outflank and if you have the go first you still can't assault. But if you go second you can.

Acardia wrote:

Hunchkrot wrote:

feluca wrote:The chances of rolling 3 times the same result is very slim (1/6*1/6*1/6). Therefor, I see no reason to swap the Zoanthrope's psychic power for a random one, and much more likely to be worse or just situational.

Zoanthropes actually get 2 rolls, and must reroll 5's and 6's, so they each have a 50% chance of getting it. and against armies with big guns on single models, this power can wreak havoc. Imagine having a broadside shoot your three hammerheads in the rear armour, or a basilisk hitting your infantry platoon three times.

Agreed but Zoanthropes are already solid anti tank, I'd rather be playing around with random powers on my broodlord.

Yes but tanks aren't nearly the problem they used to be. 3 zoanthropes with the primaris telepathy power will decimate most units, or cause tank squads to go nuts. It allows you to be more flexible rather than only use them for anti tank.

Edit: using the mind control on squads. Sorry was not clear.

Gloomfang wrote:Just a quick point to make (We have been pouring over the new rules at The Hive).

Infiltrate says:
Under Infiltrate USR *pg 38 paragraph 4:
"A unit which deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn."

A turn doesn't mean what it used to mean. Turn is defined diffrently then a Game Turn. The rule book is very specific. There are even a set list of things that have to be done in the first turn...
pg 122 under First Turn, in bold:
"Next the player who deployed his army first starts the first turn unless his opponent can Seize the Initiative."

So what it means is that the first player turn of the game (Top of the first turn) you can not assault. After that you can assault your infiltrators. It is there to stop the person who goes first from deploying his infiltrators and attacking with them before the other player has a chance to react. (IE. I deploy, you deploy. I put in my infiltrators and go first and run right into your transport so it is WS0 because it didn't move.)

Still sucks that you can't assault out of outflank and if you have the go first you still can't assault. But if you go second you can.

Turn in 5th always meant Player Turn unless specifically stated as a Game Turn. This hasn't changed.
For clarification I believe this would apply to both players:

Player 1 deploys Infiltrators. In his First Turn he cannot Assault since he used the Infiltrate special rule.
Player 1 deploys Infiltrators. In his First Turn he cannot Assault since he used the Infiltrate special rule.

Well what should I do with all my genestealers now? I have like 40~ + and some ymgarls... If they cant outlfank assault what are they there for? Ymgarls can still effectivly eat squads out of terrain but the normal ones are just wasted points now right?

And have Harpies gotten a boost now? Cause it seems that their much better.

And on the last note, there is a warlord trait that adds 1+ do reserve rolls. Well the Swarmlords' Alien cunning rule adds 1+
to the roll already. Do reserves auto come in then?

Lukus83 wrote:

Gloomfang wrote:Just a quick point to make (We have been pouring over the new rules at The Hive).

Infiltrate says:
Under Infiltrate USR *pg 38 paragraph 4:
"A unit which deploys using these rules cannot charge in the first turn."

A turn doesn't mean what it used to mean. Turn is defined diffrently then a Game Turn. The rule book is very specific. There are even a set list of things that have to be done in the first turn...
pg 122 under First Turn, in bold:
"Next the player who deployed his army first starts the first turn unless his opponent can Seize the Initiative."

So what it means is that the first player turn of the game (Top of the first turn) you can not assault. After that you can assault your infiltrators. It is there to stop the person who goes first from deploying his infiltrators and attacking with them before the other player has a chance to react. (IE. I deploy, you deploy. I put in my infiltrators and go first and run right into your transport so it is WS0 because it didn't move.)

Still sucks that you can't assault out of outflank and if you have the go first you still can't assault. But if you go second you can.

Turn in 5th always meant Player Turn unless specifically stated as a Game Turn. This hasn't changed.
For clarification I believe this would apply to both players:

Player 1 deploys Infiltrators. In his First Turn he cannot Assault since he used the Infiltrate special rule.
Player 1 deploys Infiltrators. In his First Turn he cannot Assault since he used the Infiltrate special rule.

IIRC look in the deepstrike section, not under the usr, it says you can't charge coming out of reserves or outflank. Don't have the book in front of me or is give you the page number.

l0k1 wrote:
IIRC look in the deepstrike section, not under the usr, it says you can't charge coming out of reserves or outflank. Don't have the book in front of me or is give you the page number.

Infiltrating is neither coming out of reserves nor outflanking.

Vendetta1221 wrote:Well what should I do with all my genestealers now? I have like 40~ + and some ymgarls... If they cant outlfank assault what are they there for? Ymgarls can still effectivly eat squads out of terrain but the normal ones are just wasted points now right?

And have Harpies gotten a boost now? Cause it seems that their much better.

And on the last note, there is a warlord trait that adds 1+ do reserve rolls. Well the Swarmlords' Alien cunning rule adds 1+
to the roll already. Do reserves auto come in then?

I've always always just infiltrated them. You can still get a guaranteed second turn assault against pretty much anything on the board. 'Stealers are still fine.

Mindshred wrote:

l0k1 wrote:
IIRC look in the deepstrike section, not under the usr, it says you can't charge coming out of reserves or outflank. Don't have the book in front of me or is give you the page number.

Infiltrating is neither coming out of reserves nor outflanking.

But if you use Infiltrate to outflank it is walking on the table from reserves.

l0k1 wrote:

Mindshred wrote:

l0k1 wrote:
IIRC look in the deepstrike section, not under the usr, it says you can't charge coming out of reserves or outflank. Don't have the book in front of me or is give you the page number.

Infiltrating is neither coming out of reserves nor outflanking.

But if you use Infiltrate to outflank it is walking on the table from reserves.

Right, but the original post you quoted doesn't mention outflanking or reserves - you brought that up.

Sorry, was speed reading and went over that lol

Hey, reading through this thread, it seems a lot of people are jumping to the conclusion that the broodlord gets to auto-replace any witchfire powers it rolls since it can't use them. If you look at the rules for where you get to reroll, however, it says

"If a psyker generates a psychic power whose Warp Charge cost is higher than their mastery level, roll again in the same psychic discipline until a power is generated whose warp charge cost does not exceed his master level."

Now, unless I'm missing something, that means that a Broodlord that rolls, say, Life Leech, is stuck with a power that it cannot use due to its BS 0. Since he can't use any of the Primaris powers available to nids for the same reason, I for one may just keep his base powers and let hypnotic gaze turn him into the Challenge Champion.

I'm planning to attempt my modefied drop list. 3 small units of stealers start on board, behind aegis defence line ( LD10 and not fearless, so 2+cover when gone to ground) hugging Comm link.
On turn 2 everithing else drops on 2+;
First i DS dakka flyrant with old adversary (swooping mode), then 2 spored units of zoanthropes and spored unit of bonesword warriors in vicinity of him to get into 6" preffered enemy bubble (new 6" disembark +premeasure rules should make it no problem). this group shoots the heck out of enemy vehicles. if points permit, I'll add Doom drop and trygon/shrikes for extra doodle.

Sorry but unless they Faq'd it, the Spore rule stays in effect; deploy within 2 inches of the pod. Codex trumps BRB and all

Yeah it looks like we only get a 2" disembark. Wow awesome.

So I've scanned over this thread a little bit and may have missed it being mentioned. How are we gonna deal with flyers? A Flyrant will only glance on 6's in swoop mode and is our best flyer. If equiped with TL Devourers we could hope for more glances but I see a huge lack in dealing with flyers.

Flyrant, TL Devs on anything (dakkafexes also), BS2 Emplaments.

Well as of now if our Flyrants and Harpies cant jump on them in mid-flight (as far as I know we cant vector strike fliers) we ignore them^^

Shovan wrote:So I've scanned over this thread a little bit and may have missed it being mentioned. How are we gonna deal with flyers? A Flyrant will only glance on 6's in swoop mode and is our best flyer. If equiped with TL Devourers we could hope for more glances but I see a huge lack in dealing with flyers.

Flyers cost A LOT of points and come with low armor values. Most flyers cost 100-150 points and have AV11. Hitting them is hard, but when you do connect you have a very good chance at penning and when they go down they're a large chunk of points.

Sure you can hit an Las Pred on a 3+, but it's got AV13 and is much easier to get cover for, and it costs about the same as most flyers.

Hit a predator on a 3+???? Wht is this madness you speak of?

Griever wrote:

Shovan wrote:So I've scanned over this thread a little bit and may have missed it being mentioned. How are we gonna deal with flyers? A Flyrant will only glance on 6's in swoop mode and is our best flyer. If equiped with TL Devourers we could hope for more glances but I see a huge lack in dealing with flyers.

Flyers cost A LOT of points and come with low armor values. Most flyers cost 100-150 points and have AV11. Hitting them is hard, but when you do connect you have a very good chance at penning and when they go down they're a large chunk of points.

Sure you can hit an Las Pred on a 3+, but it's got AV13 and is much easier to get cover for, and it costs about the same as most flyers.

Stormravens have 12 all around and present a problem for Nids who want to crack that shell.

Shovan wrote:

Griever wrote:

Shovan wrote:So I've scanned over this thread a little bit and may have missed it being mentioned. How are we gonna deal with flyers? A Flyrant will only glance on 6's in swoop mode and is our best flyer. If equiped with TL Devourers we could hope for more glances but I see a huge lack in dealing with flyers.

Flyers cost A LOT of points and come with low armor values. Most flyers cost 100-150 points and have AV11. Hitting them is hard, but when you do connect you have a very good chance at penning and when they go down they're a large chunk of points.

Sure you can hit an Las Pred on a 3+, but it's got AV13 and is much easier to get cover for, and it costs about the same as most flyers.

Stormravens have 12 all around and present a problem for Nids who want to crack that shell.

We have a few options with the new physic powers that would be good for dealing with flyers. Particularly Objuration Mechanicum and Puppet Master.


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Vendetta1221 wrote:Well as of now if our Flyrants and Harpies cant jump on them in mid-flight (as far as I know we cant vector strike fliers) we ignore them^^

Isn't vector strike a shootiing attack? Where does it say that it does not work on fliers? I thought it did.

Vector strike specifically says it can be used on enemy fliers. Also, it happens at the end of the movement phase, and thus is not a shooting attack.

The wife and I were discussing what way to go with her Nids for 6th, and I think shes liking the idea of a bunch of MC fliers. I think it would be fun to go against some harpies and a Flyrant or 2. Any chance of that being a decent build?

There is nothing wrong with genestealers. Who was letting you charge their stuff from outflank last edition? Not anyone I was playing against.

Genestealers hit vehicles on 3s, full stop.

Now the appropriate sized stealer unit can kill almost anything in the game.

Feel no pain will only not work against strength 8,9 or 10.

Broodlords are ridiculous now.

Holy jesus! Shep's alive! And yeah, as far as stealers go a change in playstyle is needed.

Yeah, if you just adapt your tactics a little bit then the genestealers are even better than before! They're probably the best anti-tank available to Tyranids and Telekinesis can really help you survive long enought to get stuck in.