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I think where the OP went wrong is limiting us to just guard because everyone is just bringing everything in anyway.

As it is I imagine it would be similar to the Eastern Front in World War 2 in as much as the clones will manage to get the Guard to fall back some distance before loosing their momentum and stalling, in order to be battered by the Guard, loosing morale at the nigh on inexhaustible amount of manpower the Guard can bring. Eventually being crushed by the sheer mass of the Imperial Guard

 mega_bassist wrote:
Maybe the OP should make this into a Poll? From what I'm reading it's pretty close call if the forces were on even ground. If it's not a 50/50 vote, I'd say it's 60/40 IoM winning

EDIT: I still think the Republic would win on even terms, however.

Alright, why not...

A Multi-laser is the gun according to the Inquisitor rulebook with the best rate of fire, at 12 on full, 4-6 on semi. 30 shots in total before needing to reload. Optimal range from target is 40 yards. Anything 0-10 yards away is not a viable target for it, anything over 70 yards away is less likely to be hit.

Lasguns have a single shot, or a semi at 2/3 shots per action, so we can say per second. Highest amount is 60 shots before needing to reload. But they also melt if you fire them rapidly for too long. A Guardsman can repair their rifle quickly as long as the problem is not one which has voided the weapon, as in melted it.

Lasguns also start to lose their power from 10+ yards away.

A clones DC-15A Blaster rifle has 500 shots before reloading for the Tibanna gas cartridge and 50 for a charge pack. A range of 10km.

Standard weapon comparison would mean Clone Troopers take the advantage against standard Guard. Guard win due to numbers.

Thinking about it last night I think Imperium may have a problem though, the Machine Spirits which are in virtually everything, if they are 'living' things and not superstitious crock in 40k, they are then malleable to the Force. A Jedi can convince guard tanks they don't want to fight, that the weapons in their hands are not being "treated fairly". This is also important because the Imperium has already had to discontinue using certain vehicles and weapons because their Machine Spirits decided killing people was fun.

40k psykers are mutants, a mutation which is also something the Force can possibly shut off.

If you overlook the over the top and wild claims of 40k abilities, both sides have fairly equal footing, bar the Guard having higher numbers.

It should also be noted that blast door in Episode 1 took ages to cut through because it was a heavy blast door, virtually what you'd see a Titan armour as. Master Saesee Tiin is shown to cut through a ships outer armour in a short space of time.

If you want a good idea of how good Clones are, forget the films. Watch Star Wars: Clone Wars by Genndy Tartakovsky. The same series also shows how affective other Jedi Masters are.

danp164 wrote:
Just because you can quote numbers from fictional tech specs doesn't prove technological superiority. you can;t mathematically judge the efficiency of Star Wars technology based on a set of numbers that lets be fair, the writer of said tech specs snatched out of thin air. Lets be fair to accomplish enough power to run the weapons plus, say the ships reversing lights, would take a reactor with enough fissionable materials to have to tow a small sun behind it.

No, they're based on the demonstrated capabilities from the canon films. For example, exploding asteroids with point defense guns (a simple calculation for firepower), the acceleration rates of a star destroyer (again, can calculate minimum power output), a rebel ship at Endor blowing away a star destroyer with a single salvo, etc. Like it or not, Star Wars ships display massive firepower.

Without relying on somewhat suspect tech specs your comparison is relegated to comparing the respective technologies in action, the empire took decades to build a massive space station capable of destroying a planet, The IoM's chosen method of comparable destruction being a single cyclonic torpedo which can be carried by a naval escort is needs be.

Actually the Empire took about three years (at most) to build one, and that was even bigger than the first death star.

And the thing that's impressive about the death star isn't that it destroys a planet, it's that it explodes the planet. A single shot applies so much energy to the planet that its remains are thrown outward at impressive speed, leaving nothing but a rapidly expanding cloud of dust. And, again, this something where we can easily calculate the firepower required, and the answer is unimaginably huge.

Now what about a cyclonic torpedo? http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Cyclonic_torpedo . Oh wait, it just burns the surface of the planet.

Weaponry wise, blasters and las weapons are fairly comparably crap.

Wait, are we talking about the same blasters that have the firepower of a modern grenade launcher (at least), full automatic rate of fire, and massive ammunition capacity?

The average IG regiment has a FAR larger access to Air and mechanized support

Actually they have NO air support. Air support is provided by the Imperial Navy, which has been specifically excluded.

AndrewChristlieb wrote:
and yet your stations are destroyed by a torpedo that wouldnt even register on the same scale as a 40k ship

Is it really that hard to see the difference between a precise torpedo shot directly into the main reactor and a torpedo shot onto the hull of a ship? Remember that identical torpedo shots that missed the weak point did nothing but burn the paint off, so a starship vs. starship fight would not be resolved with a single torpedo shot.

and lets not forget your vaunted SSD was destroyed largely due to an out of control one man fighter craft, that also would not register on this scale.

Sorry, but did you even watch the same movie as the rest of us? Because in my copy that ramming attack is preceded by an order to "concentrate all fire on that super star destroyer". And even then the collision doesn't actually destroy the ship, it merely keeps the crew from regaining control of the ship in the short time before it collides with the death star (possibly because the previously mentioned "all fire" may have damaged engines, killed backup bridge crew, etc).

http://foxhugh.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/the-imperium-vs-warhammer-40k.jpg

also I am curious, because it has been said a few times, and maybe im not as completely caught up in my star wars "fluff" as I should be. But what the heck are the clone troopers fielding that can compete with a titan? because if you say an ATAT I am going to laugh so hard I hurt myself.

An ATAT, the largest land vehicle I know the clone troopers have access to is roughly 22 meters tall. and 20 meters across. A massive beast to be sure.

An imperial class titan is 150 meters tall, and could probably step on an ATAT instead of wasting ammo on it.

Cthulus Spy:

I very much agree with and like almost everything about your mods. I still believe that in CC the Lightsaber should have Armorbane though.

What does "OP" mean in that context? I'm not familiar with all the abbreviations. And no, I'm not taking it personally, just ignorance showing...

Grunt13:

Yeah... I knew someone like you would come scrambling out of the woodwork with a modern day, "realistic" comparison to two completely different fantasy settings. I almost stated such in my original post. Thanks man...

Oh, and refer to Niner009's post regarding your obvious misunderstanding of the clones. It's not like they were ripped from Bob in Accounting or some such...

Iced Animals:

For the AT-AT comparison you'd have to refer to the books. One short story talked about them stepping over canyons but I can't remember what the distance was. I remember it surprised me but I've never been the kind to dig through all the "tech" specs floating around so there either could be discrepancies or I may just be flat out wrong.

Guard win. Now all you 40k and star wars fanboys chill out. the thread is over.

If we must get into "killing planets" you must realize this point.

The Imperium needs planets for their resources. They don't blow up planets to "prove their 'evil'" or whatever
Exterminatus is done by many means.
Majority scar the planet and kill ALL life on it. (virus bomb, plasma bomb, Cyclonic torpedo surface attack etc.)

There is a method of total oblideration as well. Take 1 cyclonic torpedo and attach a melta charge to the front of the missile.
The missile will bore through the planets crust until it reachs the core where it detonates which in turn makes the entire planet go boom. Death Star is not the only thing that can kill planets. Practically every ship in an imperial fleet is capable of mounting these weapons.

In practice The imperium could fire one of these into the Death star and it would make it explode with ease.

The argument of Sheild technology from the SW universe.
Every depiction i've seen from video game to movie, the sheild if impacted enough times will fall for one reason or another.

Personal fields fall to multiple impacts from small arms (no less that of heavy weapons) so a lasgun could take down a commandos personal sheild. it will take more then 1 shot sure but It can be done.

larger sheilds like those for base defense are obviously immune to a lasgun, but bring forward a Shadowsword (or 10) or an artillary battery and the massive amount of heavy ordinace will bring that sheild crashing down.



Weapons:
Man portable anti armor weapons for the SW universe are more often then not a Rocket/missile launcher of some sorts. mostly dumb fire. Its possibly a plasma warhead or a traditional shaped charge warhead (if it ain't broke don't fix it)

Imperial Guard AT weapons range from the Lascannon to Missile launcher or even the Autocannon for lighter armor. plus the lascannons punching power would be probly equal if not greater then a imperial walkers primary anti armor laser cannon. And a 2 man team carrys one of these guns around.

lasguns impacts are allegedly equal to being hit by a 30 or 40mm solid shell. Tearing off limbs or sawing a man in half from a single shot if at full power. regulation power is about that of a heavy shotgun slug hitting you or even a 50 cal round.

Blaster shots are from movie and game interpritation are like being hit by a shotgun at close range (causing the target to be knocked backward) either leaving a impact on the wearer or a clean burn hole.

Armor: from the AT-ST (Chicken Walker as its also known) to the AT-AT the Empire has primarily walkers and if you include vehicales from video games then they also have some tank-like units, some with hover drives others with traditional tracks. those that hover or have tracks have supposedlly incredibly thin armor for a combat vehicale and can only turn away small arms fire. anythign bigger can shred them to peices.

the AT-ST chicken walker (which is prone to death by small bear-like alien attacks) is a light walker with anti infantry weapons and its armor is equally as thin. a Autocannon ro Missile launcher could topple them over with ease. If a "brave" guardsmen doesn't throw a demo charge at the legs first or wedge a grenade in the leg joints.

the AT-AT is a massive 4 legged assailt transport (its name means All Terrain- Assualt Transport after all) that supports thick armor and heavy weapons. I would equate the main weapons as a mix of multi laser-ish AI guns and lascannons for anti structure and armor work. while this is all well and good, its under belly is vulnerable (not to mention the kneck) and a good IG tanker would quickly learn of this and aim for it . While a heavy bolter round possibly could not damage the lower hull f an AT-AT the main gun of any Leman Russ (not to mention any kind of baneblade) could tear through this armor. Also Anti tank weapons like a lascannon with a well aimed hit to the neck could fell the At-At

I will also mention that "Direct fire Artillary" vehicale cannot aim down, and a Leman Russ is MUCH shorter then that thing, not less would it have much lesser armor! so a few shots from a Leman Russ and it would collapse.


Compared against the legions of tanks and different varients of tanks of the IG the Storm Troopers fall.

the Leman Russ would have a varient for anything the Storm Troopers could throw at them. Vanquishers could demolisher anything that is sent against them in terms of armor and the other varients high explosive weapons would demolish every thing else. INfantry would be torn apart by exterminators or punishers.

the Baneblade and its many varients would also level anything the storm troopers could bring.

Artillary of the IG is unbelivably powerful. With the numbers as well the sky would be blotted out by the number of shells and its very doutful that any base defense sheild would hold against this.

the "Machine Spirit" is also jsut a AI of some sort and no Jedi could manipulate it......

*Jedi to a Leman Russ tank* These are not the troops your looking- BOOM! *tank kills jedi and freinds*

Im sorry.

But the Imperium of Man and its warriors of the Imperial Guard would crush the Galactic Empire's Storm Troopers (or the Republic troopers too for that matter)

 Ratbarf wrote:
^ Actually no, if you really want to get into this the Star Wars ships win each and everytime as the imperial ships are (comparatively) hugely undergunned for size. That Star Destroyer that is below the Imperial battleship would in all likeliness be able to not only destroy that battleship, but all of its battlegroup as well and possibly doing so without suffering a hit or damage.

If you want the reasoning I can give it to you, but pretty much the reason that Star Wars navies beat 40k navies into the ground is that Star Wars actually has fluff measured in modern day units. So I can tell you exactly the amount of damage one shipborne turbolaser is capable of producing, (7,73 × 10^24 W/s, that's 1 400 000 000 times more energy than was released by the Tsara Bomba which essentially means one hit and your ship is toast, and that Star Destroyer has 69 of them.) as well as its effective range, manufacturer and make. The 40k fluff simply doesn't have this, and the only way to compare is from fluff extrapolations, which are so ridiculously underpowered in comparison so as to make the thought of the Imperial Empire being defeated at the hands of the Empire of Man absolutely laughable at best.

On the ground it's pretty much the same thing, the Clone Troopers could simply set up an area shield using a small starship class powerplant and continue to laugh as the guard pores all of the artillery and firepower they can possibly even get into physical range of it. Likewise their anti air power is uttercrap in comparison, a hydra flak tank, hell even an icarus lascannon doesn't nearly put out even a tenth of a percent of what is needed to knock out a starfighters shield, let alone a planet class shield system.

The absolutely only thing the Imperial Guard have going for them is their Psykers and manpower. Thats it, all of their equipment is utterly outclassed by star wars tech. The clone commandos energy shield would allow him to calmly walk right up to a Guardsmen who had been shooting him at full auto with his lasgun and punch him in the face with his guantlets vibro blade.

TL;DR, the Imperial Guard and the Imperial Navy would both be swatted away like flies by the tech of the Star Wars universe. Which can actually be measured whereas all of the imperial tech is just conjecture.

I doubt this.

For one thing, as I recall, Star Wars ships generally have terrible weapons range, at least in comparison to 40k ships, which blow each other apart from ranges of tens of thousands of km away.

Furthermore, concerning firepower, well, Batlleships can destroy continents with their weapons. How do Star Destroyers fare when they start getting pelted tens of thousands of km away by continent leveling firepower?

On the ground, 40k stomps even harder. You know Deathstrike missiles? They destabilize tectonic plates and cause devastating earthquakes. Are Star Wars shields capable of taking barrages of missiles that destabilize tectonic plates? (That's also more powerful then the Tsar Bomba, fyi). Deathstrike missiles are nothing compared to Titans and Super-Heavy armaments.

 FinalAnswer wrote:
For one thing, as I recall, Star Wars ships generally have terrible weapons range, at least in comparison to 40k ships, which blow each other apart from ranges of tens of thousands of km away.

This is not true. Star Wars ships have a good range, but it is more cinematic to show up close dogfights.

 FinalAnswer wrote:

Furthermore, concerning firepower, well, Batlleships can destroy continents with their weapons. How do Star Destroyers fare when they start getting pelted tens of thousands of km away by continent leveling firepower?

Their shields take some damage and they use their Ion cannons to render the enemy ships useless.

 FinalAnswer wrote:

On the ground, 40k stomps even harder. You know Deathstrike missiles? They destabilize tectonic plates and cause devastating earthquakes. Are Star Wars shields capable of taking barrages of missiles that destabilize tectonic plates? (That's also more powerful then the Tsar Bomba, fyi). Deathstrike missiles are nothing compared to Titans and Super-Heavy armaments.

Thermal detonators kill vehicles quite nicely.

Im sorry, still laughing at the attempts to apply science and math to this. Its all fake and you cannot calculate anything without a real world example to compare it to, something you will not get with either of these.

Blasters cause small explosion on impact which can kill someone outright, the stormtroopers/clone armor protects them from that, but not from a direct hit shot.

I would be willing to bet that the tech is very comparable to one another, an the reason the imperial guard would win a "war" is because of their superior numbers. You trade being engineered super soldiers for decades of experience, the imperial guard just never stop fighting. It's hard to imagine why more imperial guard don't just up an kill themselves.

I know that the Jedi have left the debate, but I still say that they would match up well with any cc force the 40k setting can throw at them. Supposedly Abaddon has ap2 attacks that strike at his initiative, so I don't see why the Jedi couldn't fight the same way. Look at the inquisitorial assassins for an example, lightning reflexes give them a 4+ invuln, an I am sorry a Jedi could take one of those assassins. I say he gets a 3+ invuln an he attacks at i7 ap3, a lightsaber can cut through most things given the time, but an astartes in TDA isn't just standing around letting the Jedi cut through his suit. Supposing a ful squad of melta vets opened fire on the Jedi from a distance, then yes the jedi is gonna go splat, think Picketts charge from the Civil War but if the Jedi is on his own, he slips in close while the IG is taking their daily verbal beating from their commissar an he plays who wants to lose a limb with the surprised guardsman.

I voted for the clones, because in a small scap they could take the IG.

AndrewChristlieb wrote:
Im sorry, still laughing at the attempts to apply science and math to this. Its all fake and you cannot calculate anything without a real world example to compare it to, something you will not get with either of these.

Sure you can, it's just basic physics if you have the right examples. What you need is a case where a weapon is fired against a known substance (for example, asteriods, a tree, concrete, etc) and you have a clear view of what damage is caused. This won't give you exact numbers, but you can still get a fairly good estimate. Likewise for stuff like speed, if you see a ship go from point A to point B in time C it's pretty trivial math to figure out the acceleration involved, and then the minimum power output required to do it for a given ship.

I know you said no space but I'm simply using these to illustrate how utterly outclassed the IoM is in comparison to the Star War universe.

Okay so if you read my post you would have realised that one run of the mil star destroyer has the energy output of ~7x10^24. Do you know how much energy that is? Thats the yearly amount of the suns energy that strikes the earth created every second. Also, a Star Destroyers main weapons actually measure their range in light minutes. A typical engagement usually takes place in the hundreds of thousands of kilometre range. The reason they seem closer is for cinematic value. Also, these weapons are not unknown to be used on the ground. Void shields would work against these weapons however, but only until enough hits are taken that it can no longer redirect them all into the warp. The starship engine powered shields on the other hands are only brought down due to energy overload. So you would have to throw much much much more than a single legio titanicus is even capable of throwing out at them to take it down. They have these things designed to work with ground troops, they were all over the clone wars, it could take months of constant bombardement to bring down a city's shields from weapons even heavier than that of a Star Destroyer.

Finally, the Death Star, the weapon fired by the death star has a rough energy output estimate at about 2 x 10^32 in one shot, with the second death star being able to do this output about once every 3 minutes. That is ten times more energy than our sun produces in a 24 hour period. Nothing in the Imperium of Man comes even remotely close to this, remotely.

Thirdly, the main difference in perceived destructive capability and actual destructive capability when comparing the two universes has been somewhat misguided. The main propellant for the majority of the IoMs weapons is chemical based propellant. ie they're still shooting at each other with some kind of explosive chemical mixture. With the exception of Plasma. Star Wars weapons are tiny pockets of Plasma or high output laser weapons. This is a significant difference, and essentially means that the armour compounds used by the IoM have either incredibly limited or no resistance to these rounds. Ergo, it would be conceivable that a basic infantry round from a blaster pistol is capable of peircing the armour of light battle tanks, and any kind of infantry wielded heavy repeater sufficient in energy output to through and through land raiders with ease.

 Ratbarf wrote:
Also, a Star Destroyers main weapons actually measure their range in light minutes. A typical engagement usually takes place in the hundreds of thousands of kilometre range. The reason they seem closer is for cinematic value.

I recall Commissar Cain noting the same for Imperial ships - they fight at ranges so great you can't even see your opponent, unless they're Attack Craft.

Also, these weapons are not unknown to be used on the ground.

So does the Imperium - mention has been made of heavy, ground-based defense lasers.

So you would have to throw much much much more than a single legio titanicus is even capable of throwing out at them to take it down. They have these things designed to work with ground troops, they were all over the clone wars, it could take months of constant bombardement to bring down a city's shields from weapons even heavier than that of a Star Destroyer.

Isn't it clear that lances and hundreds, if not thousands of Earthshakers are more than capable of doing what's necessary?

Finally, the Death Star, the weapon fired by the death star has a rough energy output estimate at about 2 x 10^32 in one shot, with the second death star being able to do this output about once every 3 minutes. That is ten times more energy than our sun produces in a 24 hour period. Nothing in the Imperium of Man comes even remotely close to this, remotely.

As I recall, the Blackstones could throw out equal/superior firepower despite their smaller size...not to mention Imperial ships would just close to a point where the Death Star couldn't fire its main cannon and just bomb the Death Star to hell with their lances and other weapons.

The main propellant for the majority of the IoMs weapons is chemical based propellant. ie they're still shooting at each other with some kind of explosive chemical mixture. With the exception of Plasma. Star Wars weapons are tiny pockets of Plasma or high output laser weapons. This is a significant difference, and essentially means that the armour compounds used by the IoM have either incredibly limited or no resistance to these rounds. Ergo, it would be conceivable that a basic infantry round from a blaster pistol is capable of peircing the armour of light battle tanks, and any kind of infantry wielded heavy repeater sufficient in energy output to through and through land raiders with ease.

Uh-huh, sounds like the difference between the UNSC and the Covenant. Play Halo...even the 'inferior' weapons of the UNSC were more than capable of taking down the superior Covenant technology.

purplkrush wrote:
Grunt13:

Yeah... I knew someone like you would come scrambling out of the woodwork with a modern day, "realistic" comparison to two completely different fantasy settings. I almost stated such in my original post. Thanks man...

Lasguns are made as the futuristic counterpart of M16s and AK47s, comparison was justified. In the Gaunt’s Ghost and Ciaphas Cain books the characters switch to full auto at a fairly regular basis when they need saturate a mob of cultist with a hail of lasblasts.
http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120223161602/warhammer40k/images/2/20/Bladeofsondar2.jpg
Image shows lasguns firing in burst mode. Gaunt’s boltpistol is firing in a burst of five shots going by the shell count. Bolt pistols are assault 1 guns in the game. Also the Dawn of War, Space Marine, and other games display lasguns as well as other rapid-fire guns firing in the manner I have described.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPxKQkfkluc
Given that jedi rely on intercepting each shot with their lightsaber to avoid injury they are in serious trouble when facing the guard.

purplkrush wrote:
Oh, and refer to Niner009's post regarding your obvious misunderstanding of the clones. It's not like they were ripped from Bob in Accounting or some such...

You gave the clone troopers a toughness of 4. Unless they can take a point black shotgun shot to their unarmored face and laugh it off the way an ork and space marine can it is completely unmerited. The Clone trooper were still just human beings and should have the same restrictions as human beings. The imperium made its own army of super clones from the collective genetic material of the greatest heroes of the imperial guard (not some random bounty hunter). Their rules were the same as the normal IG except that they had ATSKNF (IIRC).
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Afriel_Strain#.UFQLhEKevpQ

One on one, clone trooper. Force vs Force IG all day.

We could make George Lucas and Matt Ward debate the topic


... and all end up wondering since when was Draigo an imperial guard officer.

IG actually does have it's own air support in terms of several regiments that have built in air power in terms of valkyries/vendettas/mauraders/lightnings notably Elysian air corps or the Phantine guard regiments who are on a planet with no real ground essentially so it's definately not just a navy thing

 purplkrush wrote:
Cthulus Spy:

I very much agree with and like almost everything about your mods. I still believe that in CC the Lightsaber should have Armorbane though.

What does "OP" mean in that context? I'm not familiar with all the abbreviations. And no, I'm not taking it personally, just ignorance showing...

Grunt13:

Yeah... I knew someone like you would come scrambling out of the woodwork with a modern day, "realistic" comparison to two completely different fantasy settings. I almost stated such in my original post. Thanks man...

Oh, and refer to Niner009's post regarding your obvious misunderstanding of the clones. It's not like they were ripped from Bob in Accounting or some such...

Iced Animals:

For the AT-AT comparison you'd have to refer to the books. One short story talked about them stepping over canyons but I can't remember what the distance was. I remember it surprised me but I've never been the kind to dig through all the "tech" specs floating around so there either could be discrepancies or I may just be flat out wrong.

OP means Overpowered.
And titans are not allowed. Titans are part of the titan legions, and not the IG. The IG do have baneblades, I think.

 Bobthehero wrote:

 d3m01iti0n wrote:

MarsNZ wrote:
All clones are copies of Jango Fett, who was played by Temuera Morrison, who played Jake the Muss in the movie "Once Were Warriors"

Needless to say if things get into hand to hand combat the Clones are gonna wipe the floor with guard, Ogryns or no.

Jango's unaltered clone got his ass accidentally kicked by a blind man. I have no faith in the dumbed down versions.

No, he fell down the Sarlaac, kill the thing from the inside, and went off with the girl under the sunset, twice.

Seriously, people, inform yourself For Feth Sake

Not canon whatsoever. Youre being sarcastic right?

 Peregrine wrote:

AndrewChristlieb wrote:
Im sorry, still laughing at the attempts to apply science and math to this. Its all fake and you cannot calculate anything without a real world example to compare it to, something you will not get with either of these.

Sure you can, it's just basic physics if you have the right examples. What you need is a case where a weapon is fired against a known substance (for example, asteriods, a tree, concrete, etc) and you have a clear view of what damage is caused. This won't give you exact numbers, but you can still get a fairly good estimate. Likewise for stuff like speed, if you see a ship go from point A to point B in time C it's pretty trivial math to figure out the acceleration involved, and then the minimum power output required to do it for a given ship.

Sorry, you can not get an accurate measurement from "an asteroid". Concreate maybe, but you would still require some sort of baseline information on it: thickness, composition, etc... You dont have those stats for an asteroid so you cannot use it as an example. Speed i agree totally, but where are point a and point b? Unless the measurements were written down you cannot say what it is, and then of course once its written down its subject to the error all scifi is: overpowering. Writers always want to go to warp 15! They also usually have no idea what theyre talking about and leave horribly inaccurate drivel in their wake.

From the fluff both a SSD and a 40k BB can slag a planets surface in a matter of hours, limited by the time it takes to orbit the planet no doubt. It seems to me that they would have a similar output if thats the case.

 Ratbarf wrote:
I know you said no space but I'm simply using these to illustrate how utterly outclassed the IoM is in comparison to the Star War universe.

Okay so if you read my post you would have realised that one run of the mil star destroyer has the energy output of ~7x10^24. Do you know how much energy that is? Thats the yearly amount of the suns energy that strikes the earth created every second. Also, a Star Destroyers main weapons actually measure their range in light minutes. A typical engagement usually takes place in the hundreds of thousands of kilometre range. The reason they seem closer is for cinematic value. Also, these weapons are not unknown to be used on the ground. Void shields would work against these weapons however, but only until enough hits are taken that it can no longer redirect them all into the warp. The starship engine powered shields on the other hands are only brought down due to energy overload. So you would have to throw much much much more than a single legio titanicus is even capable of throwing out at them to take it down. They have these things designed to work with ground troops, they were all over the clone wars, it could take months of constant bombardement to bring down a city's shields from weapons even heavier than that of a Star Destroyer.

Finally, the Death Star, the weapon fired by the death star has a rough energy output estimate at about 2 x 10^32 in one shot, with the second death star being able to do this output about once every 3 minutes. That is ten times more energy than our sun produces in a 24 hour period. Nothing in the Imperium of Man comes even remotely close to this, remotely.

Thirdly, the main difference in perceived destructive capability and actual destructive capability when comparing the two universes has been somewhat misguided. The main propellant for the majority of the IoMs weapons is chemical based propellant. ie they're still shooting at each other with some kind of explosive chemical mixture. With the exception of Plasma. Star Wars weapons are tiny pockets of Plasma or high output laser weapons. This is a significant difference, and essentially means that the armour compounds used by the IoM have either incredibly limited or no resistance to these rounds. Ergo, it would be conceivable that a basic infantry round from a blaster pistol is capable of peircing the armour of light battle tanks, and any kind of infantry wielded heavy repeater sufficient in energy output to through and through land raiders with ease.

Show me the source for these claims, I have never seen anything like them on the internet, even amongst the most biased of Star Wars fans.

Uhuh. You do realize that the most common weapon amongst guardsmen, lasguns, are lasers, right? Plasma can't reliably take down a Land Raider anyway, so you're wrong there. And it's not like Star Wars guns are anything special, considering they've failed to kill people like Leia and Obi-Wan.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html

That ones the math for the output of the Death Stars energy weapon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer

Technical Specs.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster

Blaster Specs

And by the way, I'm not really biased towards Star Wars, I once was in a thread about Tyranids vs the Empire and everyone said the Nids won and then this dude came up and started to say that Empire would win because they had ships with these specs. Pretty much everyone tried to argue against him but he won in the end simply because of how absolutely ridiculous the power outputs from their ships and weapons are. Nothing in the IoM even compares to the Star Wars universe when it comes to actual power output. For instance, the Death Star has an energy output that is 480 times greater than our sun. Yes, you read that correctly. Greater than our sun. That Deathstar, once fully constructed could face and destroy the entire fleet of the Imperium of Man, by itself.

Not canon whatsoever. Youre being sarcastic right?

Actually it very much is canon.

Isn't it clear that lances and hundreds, if not thousands of Earthshakers are more than capable of doing what's necessary?

In all likelihood actually no. The amount of energy output that the generators that the clones use is actually similar in scope to that of small stars. If you surrounded a shield powered by that generator with Eathshaker cannons wheel to wheel to as far out a range as they could possibly hit them they would still not be able to cause the shield to go down. That Star Destroyer Engine has enough energy to resist an explosion with the equivalency of about 3 or 4 Earths worth of TNT or conventional explosives. So no, lances and hundreds if not thousands of Earthshakers would not be capable of doing what's necessary.

/eyeroll

The Droid army during the Clone Wars is stated to number in "the quintillions", which is several hundred, if not thousand, times larger than the entire Imperium of Man's population period, not just the Guard. The Clone Army by comparison numbered in the millions- and yet they still managed to win in the majority of their conflicts.

Let's not even bring numbers into this discussion. If the CIS couldn't overwhelm the Clones with sheer numbers, the Guard can't, especially when you consider that it takes the Guard months to travel from system to system via warp travel, and months to years to win a single planet, whereas Star Wars armies can travel from one side of the Galaxy to the other in days and fight entire planet-sized skirmishes in a couple of days.

- - - - - -

If Gaunt's Ghost is any indication, and I would say that it's arguably the "de facto" showing of the average Guardsmen, most Guardsmen, even veterans, have combat skills on par with your average veteran WW2 soldier. Cool, but clones are clones of a man who was able to kill several Jedi Knights armed with lightsabers using only his fists- simultaneously.

So on that notion I'd argue that Clones would win on an individual basis- easily.

Army vs. army they would lose because in Star Wars no one ever fights strategically. Guard mass-artillery strikes alone would wipe out most clone formations with ease.

Except you've forgotten the most obvious factor in the IG's favor.

Marbo solos, gg. /thread

Yeah, no. In that case we get Darth Nihlus, who can kill the entire Imperial Guard with his mind anyways.

Marbo's too busy fighting with the Emperor and the missing Primarchs and Bruce Lee and Prince Yriel in the Warp, preventing Chaos from flooding the Galaxy.

 Ratbarf wrote:
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Tech/Beam/DeathStar.html

That ones the math for the output of the Death Stars energy weapon.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Imperial_I-class_Star_Destroyer

Technical Specs.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Blaster

Blaster Specs

And by the way, I'm not really biased towards Star Wars, I once was in a thread about Tyranids vs the Empire and everyone said the Nids won and then this dude came up and started to say that Empire would win because they had ships with these specs. Pretty much everyone tried to argue against him but he won in the end simply because of how absolutely ridiculous the power outputs from their ships and weapons are. Nothing in the IoM even compares to the Star Wars universe when it comes to actual power output. For instance, the Death Star has an energy output that is 480 times greater than our sun. Yes, you read that correctly. Greater than our sun. That Deathstar, once fully constructed could face and destroy the entire fleet of the Imperium of Man, by itself.

While the Deathstar is all fine and dandy...I'm not seeing the actual specs on the Star Destroyer's weapons. Blasters are apparently capable of blasting off chunks of stone, that's cool. Still incapable of killing people like Leia though.

You might be interested in knowing that 3 cruisers are capable of 244,000 Gigatons of firepower via hellfire missiles (This being around the amount required to turn a Space Hulk to dust).

Lunar-class Cruisers are also apparently capable of 475.2 teratons of firepower per macrocannon salvo, macrocannons being one of the most common of Imperium weapons.

So, I dunno about the Deathstar soloing the entirety of the Imperium fleet.