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 Danny Internets wrote:

Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

You are wrong.

I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

It's so kind of GW that they want to make some shelf space for Warzone at our FLGSs... Kudos to GW.

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

You don't see any hypocrisy on this?

Even if we disregard all the conspiracy theories going around, the sensible moves of a PR conscious company faced with a stock issue would be to:

a) Delay the release until everyone gets the stock that they asked for;
b) Distribute available stock evenly for every retailer, both third party and in-house;

Even if this isn't a deliberate move to shift more sales to GW stores, they still handled the situation in about the worst way possible.

Two local stores (including Sergeant Horse here on dakka) have posted that the estimate they're getting is 3 weeks. One store isn't getting ANY plastics at all whereas the GW store 10 minutes away said they're just not getting as much as they wanted. See the difference? If GW can push a portion of the sales from an indy store to a company store, they make 40% more money from each one of those sales. Do I think that this is some huge conspiracy for the "greater good" of the GW bottom line and that GW purposely ran the product line short? No. Do I think that once GW realized they would run short that they earmarked the majority of their product for their own direct sale use for greater profit on the initial rush at the expense of indy stores? Absolutely.

Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Given GW's history of P.R smokescreens and their efforts to funnel customers to their stores, both of which have been ramping up lately, I am surprised that there is a single person whose credulity is not strained.

Wake up.

Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) and some stock issues have started happening in that time. Is GW production just not where it needs to be for so many consecutive releases added in to GW Europe/HQ not having a good grasp on the US market and causing a short out across the system?

Seems more reasonable than a conspiracy to drive sales into stores in areas they don't have stores....

 jgemrich wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Nice words. Now explain how that wonderful business strategy gels with last weeks online and bit sales prohibition?

This & 6th Ed BS is why I put GW in the rear view mirror over a year ago. They're a mega-million dollar operation and they hand out juvenile excuses like 'we ran out' when it comes to a major release where, lo and behold, their stores get stocked but their independent retailers get hosed. And it's not the first time.

 Hulksmash wrote:
Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) ...

Hey Hulk, when did that happen? I thought they'd only just made that plant within the last couple of years, why'd they shutter it so soon?

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

PhantomViper wrote:
Even if we disregard all the conspiracy theories going around, the sensible moves of a PR conscious company faced with a stock issue would be to:

a) Delay the release until everyone gets the stock that they asked for;
b) Distribute available stock evenly for every retailer, both third party and in-house;

Even if this isn't a deliberate move to shift more sales to GW stores, they still handled the situation in about the worst way possible.

 warboss wrote:
Two local stores (including Sergeant Horse here on dakka) have posted that the estimate they're getting is 3 weeks. One store isn't getting ANY plastics at all whereas the GW store 10 minutes away said they're just not getting as much as they wanted. See the difference? If GW can push a portion of the sales from an indy store to a company store, they make 40% more money from each one of those sales. Do I think that this is some huge conspiracy for the "greater good" of the GW bottom line and that GW purposely ran the product line short? No. Do I think that once GW realized they would run short that they earmarked the majority of their product for their own direct sale use for greater profit on the initial rush at the expense of indy stores? Absolutely.

Of course they're taking care of their own stores first. They should care more about customers being turned away at company stores than at other retailers. Because they're the stores with the Games Workshop name on them. Right?

Note that "PR" isn't really the right terminology here. Again, the public (i.e. customers) are inconvenienced somewhere no matter who gets the stock. The issue is between GW and retailers. And while I agree that this situation stinks for retailers, I don't see how customers more or less cutting-and-pasting old anti-GW rants is really helping them. If you feel strongly about this, perhaps you can visit your FLGS on Tau release day and buy something for another game system.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 jgemrich wrote:
I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Well put. The phrase that was going around in my cranium was "falling on its sword." Some people might like to see that happen, but that doesn't make it sound business strategy.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

He didn't prove your point though.

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

To be fair, everyone wants a riptide. I don't play Tau, dislike most of the models, and even I want a riptide!

 Hulksmash wrote:
Could a portion of the issue be the fact that the US plant is closed. It's relatively recent (6 months or so) and some stock issues have started happening in that time. Is GW production just not where it needs to be for so many consecutive releases added in to GW Europe/HQ not having a good grasp on the US market and causing a short out across the system?

Seems more reasonable than a conspiracy to drive sales into stores in areas they don't have stores....

Not really I am afraid as the US plant only had about 50 IIRC or so of the more popular molds, Rhino, IG Infantry Tac marines etc. I think its pretty unlikely that a mold for a new release and basically untested ( via sales) product would be given a second mold from the start, those things can run around $40K each to make depending on what type of kit it is. Honestly they knew they were closing the plant and knew there would not be a second area for production so if any thing it would have increased the amount of production to compensate for the closing of the US facility. At least that would make sense. I have seen these machines work, they can crank out rhinos every 18 seconds, so i hardly think they ran out of time. The only thing i can think of at this time is that due to the increased amount of releases and the "elimination" of waves is that, provided they did not add new machines to the UK facility the production, the schedule to keep current kits in stock as well as produce new ones has made a bit of a log jam.

GW shops are auto stocked bases on their sales History, they don't get to pick and choose what they carry or how much they get of a new release, its all dictated to them and adjusted based on their sales history. Sure they are going to have some stock but if you think your gonna walk into a shop as see 40 boxes of riptides your crazy. Pre-orders are guaranteed if placed by the end of the weekend they are released for pre sale according to the website. What is the penalty if the products do not show up? No idea. But this notion that GW shops got " all they wanted " would only really apply to the pro-orders done before close of business on Easter Sunday, and that was a Holiday for the one man shops so they only got to do orders on Saturday. We will see if they really got all those pre-orders filled by this weekend. Its a ugly sitch all the way around.

I am also pretty sure that the B&M stores make a considerable amount of cash for GW and doing anything to directly "hurt" them is not in any business manual I have ever seen. It sucks to be sure but as for it being intentional, well every one is going to make their own mind up regardless of the evidence or lack there of. I have worked my share of B&M shops most carried FULL GW lines so I know very well what something like this does to those shops. Its not good. Hopefully this will not happen again.

A wise general once said.

"if it happens once its an accident, twice is a coincidence, three times is enemy action."

----

Personally I gave up GW games last July, right after the 6th Ed release/ Price hike. It was the straw that broke this camel's back.

Now I get that people still like GW games, and play them. Heck more power to you.

My issue is that FLGS (here in the US anyway) are great centers to get together meet new folks and have a great time. The owners work long hours, deal with IMHO extremely finicky customers, online retailers that are cheaper and in GW's case direct competition from the manufacturer.

Keep in mind that just because your FLGS is buying at wholesale doesn't mean that he is making a 40% profit on what you buy. The owner has to cover things like the lease, electricity, Interwebs that we all demand, overhead like stock, payroll, ect. He might make $2 on that $25 solo you just bought, and if you factor in the part where its been on the shelf for 6 month, he has actually probably lost a little or hopefully broke even on it.

This is why new releases are important for the FLGS they are items that can be turned over quickly (like same day) they kinda the life blood and where the FLGS get the money to do things like upgrade terrain, or put that TV in that you want so you can look at something while you are there for hours painting.

OTOH, we all get that "Oh shiny model, must have it now!" syndrome. but if you can hold off for just a bit it goes a long way to keeping your store open and the owner sane.

Pretty obvious this was all deliberate. The key is to just wait it out until your FLGS finally gets their Tau.

 Harriticus wrote:
Pretty obvious this was all deliberate. The key is to just wait it out until your FLGS finally gets their Tau.

Oh yeah, absolutely it was deliberate. It's so obvious that the way to make money is to not stock your stores, your independent stores, or your websites fully....

@Captain Vyper

But a lot of those basic molds being run off seperately at a different location took pressure off the main plant. If they didn't increase capacity (due to lower volumes or whatever) the shortage could easily shift to new releases. Especially on this release schedule.

@fifty if I reserved that order, then yes I would be surprised And angry. He had no right to sell my order. You act like IM going to go in laughing in everybody that I got it. I would just go into and play it.

PhantomViper wrote:

 jgemrich wrote:

 kronk wrote:

 cincydooley wrote:
Wait wait wait. You're telling me the company producing the product is going to have said product in their own stores before third parties will??!? Say it ain't so!

Worst example of completely missing the point of a thread I've ever seen.

I think he gets the point. Just that there shouldn't be surprise that a business would first ensure their supply chain is satisfactory prior to a third party outlet.

It is a regretable miscalculation on demand pure and simple. All this underlying GW as a corporate giant with these vast marketing plans to remove sales from LGS is a bit far fetched and stated by someone that has never been in a corporate meeting for product launch and/or strategy. Yes the inherent goal is to deliver product in channels that maximize profit but each of those channels is sacred and necessary for the livelihood of the company. Simply sacrificing one like a cow and then starving your vertically integrated channel at the same time = HUGE MISS. Nothing sinister.

Nice words. Now explain how that wonderful business strategy gels with last weeks online and bit sales prohibition?

Neither of those are consider by the GW corporation as a sales channel. GW has (since 2003 in US) disallowed shopping cart purchase of their products. GW sees stocked retail game stores (third party and corporate) as essential to their brand and the hobby. -

So this supports my supposition that GW would not inherently damage one of their desireable sales channel (LGS).

GW trade statement wrote:Equally important to the success of GAMES WORKSHOP is a vibrant network of Retailers committed to preserving the integrity of the GAMES WORKSHOP brand and the promotion of the hobby that it serves.

The first thing I think of when reading about the Tau running out of product to sell? Well, it's how certain people always are willing to entirely axe an army (locally Black Templars are a good example) because "no one plays it". Well, I'm quite sure Tau hasn't sold much either in recent years, locally I've seen them on the table maybe twice in the last 9 months or so since I started playing.

And now here we have happening what I've always said in such discussions - update, and voila, sales take care of themselves. I mean even an idiot should be able to figure out that armies such as Tau or BT that haven't seen an update since the Neanderthals went extinct will not sell nearly as much as recently updated armies.

Also it goes to show that even GW has no idea how popular their armies actually are

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
@fifty if I reserved that order, then yes I would be surprised And angry. He had no right to sell my order. You act like IM going to go in laughing in everybody that I got it. I would just go into and play it.

I think that is my point - unless you've paid upfront, he has every right to sell your order to someone else, and he has every right to not even let you in his store, with or without the Riptide you may or may not buy from GW. (Also, reserved and ordered are not the same thing, though I admit they are very similar) I very much doubt they'd do it, as it would probably lose them at least some money, but every shop owner has the right to refuse service. As I said, maybe the internets is distorting the point you are trying to make, but it comes across as if you feel the owner of your local FLGS is an automaton whose sole purpose is to serve your gaming needs, and that he is privileged you should grace his store with your presence. Even "I would just go in and play it" shows that you haven't stopped to think that it might be a bit of a snub to the guy who has gone to the trouble of organising the tournament in which you are about to play. It is hardly the worst thing in the world, but it is not the nothing you make it out to be. I don't know why this bothers me so much, to be honest, but your attitude does upset me.

 Fifty wrote:
Snip.

Alright, I was under the impression, here reserve means you pay for it up-front and the product is set aside only for you. What im saying that the gamestores KNOW that they are unique in the way they offer a place to use their product, it is pretty much a requirement to run a game store. But in this day they also know that there are discount stores and retailers and things like ebay. They know that those services exist and steal sales from them. but they will continue to to let you play in hopes that you buy. So they shouldn't be upset when those models come up, nor should i be shamed for using a different method other then their store, I got the codex and Riptide for 110$ from a discount, it is coming late but im getting it for cheap. This is my preferred method because i work very little(18 hour weeks at 8.03$ a hour) so this is the only way i could afford both of those. I should not be shamed or feel bad because i did what was conviniant to me. Recently when I told someone my plan to buy at a store they shamed me because im not buying from the store that i was playing at(Little did they know i built 95% of my SM army there)
My point is, Stores and people should not feel sensitive when someone doesnt buy from them because it isnt a slight, just most likely what is convininat for them.

The way you have explained it there sounds more reasonable, and a lot less "FLGS can suck it". I would say too, that I don't think you should never use stuff from a store if you didn't buy it there, but using a Riptide in the next few days is a totally different kick in the teeth. As I said, I played DnD at Dark Sphere, which I feel fine about, despite buying few of the books there, but I bought most of my 40k stuff there. I'd feel a bit awkward playing a different game there that refused to let Dark Sphere stock their product...

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Um, he did the opposite...

 Lobukia wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:

PhantomViper wrote:

 gorgon wrote:
I'm not even sure what this thread is about anymore, or if anything new can be said here.

My take is that customers are the least affected party. Both FLGS and GW will lose sales over this. Any customer that wants the merchandise will still get it, they'll just have to wait an extra week or two. So I get mikhaila's frustration. I don't get all the evil empire talk from people who probably wouldn't have rushed to get the shiny new boxed sets at release anyway.

But carry on with the ranting and conspiracies.

So you don't understand that FLGS's getting no stock compared to GW stores getting "not all that we wanted and next restock will only be in two weeks so you better hurry up and buy buy buy before it all sells out", is another dick move in the part of GW towards the very LGS's that just last week they claimed were defending with their ban on bit and online sales?

Actually my local GW said don't bother turning up if you're after a Riptide, we didn't get all we asked for and they're all spoken for

Thank you for proving my point for me.

Um, he did the opposite...

No, it's an evil plot by GW, they're trying to confuse us! I'm not falling for it though, because I'm a potato!