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Yeah, I very much doubt that GW planned to have any sort of shortage - it's still in their best interests to get all that extra product out there, whoever its sold through. However, they are going to exploit the hell out of it, and favor their own stores over independent stockists, and pull try to pull more customers back to the GW brick and mortars. It's turning their problem into an opportunity, which really isn't going to make those independents feel any better about GW.

It was only a matter of time before GWs "no pre-release info till it's coming out" strategy backfired on them. I'd be willing to bet real money some suit in GW HQ crunched the numbers for how Tau have been selling the last few years and projected sales using whatever standard formula they use to plan releases, but they didn't realize just how incredibly popular Tau had originally been and how completely UNpopular they have been under 5th and 6th ed. If the accounting guys have poor data to base their projected sales on and are as out of touch with the playerbase as everyone is pretty sure they are then I'm not one bit surprised this happened.

People WANT to play Tau, they look awesome! But they have also outright sucked for 2 editions now. The current tau codex wasn't exactly a powerhouse when it released in 4th and it's only gotten worse as editions made it weaker and new codexes made the competition stronger. So now you have a new codex (presumably following the NewStuffRoxxors! train that everything since Space Wolves has followed) combined with some new hotness models and it was bound to bring back all the anime fanboys. Hell, it almost makes ME want to redo my tau army and I don't even play 40k anymore!

Could it be malice? Possibly, I wouldn't put it past GW. But I think it is actually FAR more likely to do with GW completely missing the mark on their projected sales. If only there was some sort of system where you could announce releases a few months ahead of time and guage interest beforehand. Perhaps have a system where you could order the stuff, but do it previous to release somehow. Alas, such technology is too far out of reach for a small mom & pop garage company like Games Workshop.

Wait, wait , wait!...
Did I see it confirmed that the Memphis facility is no longer producing plastics?
When the hell did that happen?
And how much of a drop in sales volume would that require?
If anything is an indicator that GW doesn't sell as much, this is a big one.

As far as buying stuff from GW and showing up at the FLGS with it, that is just rude when the FLGS has no opportunity to buy, and based on the pricing, is losing thousands of dollars off this incident.

I am not thinking it is definitely a GW conspiracy to screw FLGSs, but it makes the spidey sense tingle. It's too similar to what happened when new GWs opened down the street from FLGSs back in the late 90's.

With the amount of Tau players who got shafted in recent rulesets, it's no surprise they want to get back up to speed when they get the chance.

With more hype, they can gauge the level of interest, and get their manufacture orders in place in time.
No hype, no clue.

Stoopid GW.

Orktavius wrote:

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Yeah, it's not like there's a whole industry based around market research, and figuring our what customers are likely to buy...

The most likely issue here is probably their manufacturing arm is having issues produce all these models, and then the next line of models, and the next after it.

You will never hear a company as small as GW tell anyone (nor really have anyone care to investigate unlike Apple for example) what is clogging the pipelines on a product release. I know from the point of view of my company, we always have shortages and issues with the warehouse and manufacturing arms getting product to retail because of various issues that arrive.

Pushing the manufacturing capacity of the Tau line followed by and preceded by multitudes of other models might be straining their ability to keep up with demand.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
they’re having stock shortages to everyone but themselves?

I guess GW's own webstore doesn't count as "themself."

I was in GW yesterday and the manager of my local said they weren't getting vast quantities in themselves and that the web sales had already sold out in the uk. GW just completely misunderstood their market again, not sure why anyone is surprised lol.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

 mikhaila wrote:

Big post

So, because some store got hurt feelings from not being able to get the new model i should just axe it?
By this logic i shouldn't play conversions, because they cant possibly sell that model.
Im sorry,, but what right does a store have to tell me i cant play with something i bought.
Gaming stores have to expect that not everything will be bought from them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Oh im not buying from Gw, I got it from an independent who assures my my order is coming.
What im saying is that stores shouldnt get upset because someone shows up with a model they dont have.

I suppose it depends on how considerate a person you are.

One of the other threads on this topic started with an email from Alexi, the owner of Dark Sphere. Now, I know Alexi reasonably well, he is a nice enough bloke. We aren't close mates or anything, but I wouldn't want to deliberately upset him. Hell, I've even met his Mum when she has helped out at the store and she is a lovely lady, and I know Andy, who works there, quite well. Now, there is nothing stopping me taking Riptides to the store to play, but it would be a slap in the face for them that I don't think they deserve. Now, maybe a tournament would be different, but I would suggest that for friendly gaming, you don't need your Riptide yet. I used to play quite a lot of DnD in the store there, and Andy would regularly stay back for little or no extra wages to enable us to do so. As a result, I buy stuff from the store that I could get elsewhere. Not everything, but quite a few things. Why would I want to say to them that even though they will put themselves out for me, I will not do the same for them. Bad enough to not buy a Riptide at Dark Sphere (not that I want one), but to take it to the store and show them that I didn't wait for them is just mean.

It is not always about your "rights" or what you are entitled to do, but about being considerate, and thinking about what you are able to do.

Orktavius wrote:
You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

And your "real data" will be equally pointless, because you're talking about an army that went through an entire edition without an update. If Tau sales were low it's because the army hasn't gotten new rules or models in years, not because the army itself is unpopular and won't sell anymore.

 Sidstyler wrote:

Orktavius wrote:
You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

And your "real data" will be equally pointless, because you're talking about an army that went through an entire edition without an update. If Tau sales were low it's because the army hasn't gotten new rules or models in years, not because the army itself is unpopular and won't sell anymore.

His real data and your real date are just as garbage in the real world, so there is no sense in trying to use actual logic or fact to discuss an illogical topic where we have none of the facts.

Nothing in this post is based upon facts, not even the FLGS claiming they will lose 'hundreds' (Unless they had pre-orders and people CANCEL those pre-orders without a doubt and then they should wonder about the loyalty of their customers), a product release was no guarantee of any sales.

Guess what, GW is not the first company to experience a shortage of stock. They won't be the last.

I am sure in this great conspiracy to screw the FLGS, they also forgot to make enough stock for their own stores, ya? Oh wait... it seems they did.

When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

VERY Sensible Opinion.

I think so far GW has not been shy about announcing when they are purposely screwing retailers over.

Orktavius wrote:

This is poor planning, obviously they under-estimated the demand for tau based on sales from the last few years and it's biting them in the ass. Since they've even had to stop selling to some markets due to selling out online this is obviously not an intentional plan to screw independents, it's simple miscalculation of demand.

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Root cause analysis + Process improvement are principal management mantras these days, have been for a long time, if they can't even recognize that the line received no updates or publicity for years and that therefore 'sales in the last few years' would give them flawed data, then they need a corporate beheading. It reads like they've not undergone serious auditing for a long time, that, like so many other recent practices, reeks of a yesman culture endemic of a stagnant and inward looking company. Self aggrandizing is a dangerous thing, most other large companies have done away with that sort of thing and focused on complaint recognition and improvement, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it's the late 80s... Then again, how old is the board??? Oh yeah, red braces and brick phones. Stagnant.

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

The product is one in a long line of releases, it's is not limited product, it doesn't have a shelf life or freshness, it's going to be on sale for a long time... There is no excuse for this level of bungling.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Soo'Vah'Cha wrote:
When it really comes down to it, if GW truly wants to cut off all non GW stores from its products..it can, they make the stuff, they can choose to sell it or supply it how they like (baring any specific contracts and such).

If they wanted to they could have just made the Tau launch a GW limited only one, and keep it all to themselves, would it hurt the over all sales, maybe..but they would cut out the middleman.

That may be what eventually GW will do, and if so why not just rip the bandaid off all in one go, and not in little increments.

As much as I dislike some of GW's protocols and procedures, I think this time it just falls to a penny pinching sales figure and a underestimated demand, it just smells of cutbacks and dumb calls.

Just my opinion of course.

They may be testing the waters on this, the company is highly conservative and resistant to change, so they could well be engineering that situation to see how it affects sale of the product, pulling this stunt to observe what happens when they remove the 3rd parties from their sales and how that reflects on their own stores. It may be a test run.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

You know, I had never noticed the lack of those things, but you're right. Almost everyone else is trying to collect customer feedback. All I can think of that GW collects would be sales data, information about miscasts, and what people put in their wish list. Normally I ignore the darn things, but I probably would put in the effort to fill one out for GW.

That said I'm not sure I've had a feedback form stuffed into the box of any of my miniatures or board games, so it's not really GW doing something weird and wacky on their own.

 MeanGreenStompa wrote:

Orktavius wrote:

This is poor planning, obviously they under-estimated the demand for tau based on sales from the last few years and it's biting them in the ass. Since they've even had to stop selling to some markets due to selling out online this is obviously not an intentional plan to screw independents, it's simple miscalculation of demand.

Also....for the record....asking the internet would have been frakking pointless, you ask folks if they would buy a product and you'll get a 1000 yes's but when the time to slap money down comes you'll be lucky if you get 50. You want REAL data you base it on sales numbers, those are at least reliable.

Root cause analysis + Process improvement are principal management mantras these days, have been for a long time, if they can't even recognize that the line received no updates or publicity for years and that therefore 'sales in the last few years' would give them flawed data, then they need a corporate beheading. It reads like they've not undergone serious auditing for a long time, that, like so many other recent practices, reeks of a yesman culture endemic of a stagnant and inward looking company. Self aggrandizing is a dangerous thing, most other large companies have done away with that sort of thing and focused on complaint recognition and improvement, instead of sticking their fingers in their ears and pretending it's the late 80s... Then again, how old is the board??? Oh yeah, red braces and brick phones. Stagnant.

This sort of balls up, if indeed it is a balls up and not some shady tactic, is demonstrative of a company living in a vacuum and refusing to engage or understand it's customer. It's incompetent. When was the last time you completed an online survey for GW? Or opened a box of product with a feedback form? I've no recollection of ever doing that and that's weird, for a PLC retailer, really bloody weird.

The product is one in a long line of releases, it's is not limited product, it doesn't have a shelf life or freshness, it's going to be on sale for a long time... There is no excuse for this level of bungling.

GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

Maybe someone could help me out here because there is something I just don't understand in all of this.

There are some stores getting nothing, no Codicies, no models, Zilch.
There are other stores getting Codicies and maybe a few other small bits.

GW's own website doesn't have all the models, but the standard codex is unaffected.

People are saying that GW stores will have whatever they pre-ordered, but the independants are losing out.

If this is down to GW underestimating demand and frelling up the numbers, are we expected to believe that some GW executive expects each Tau player to want only a single Riptide OR a single aircraft, but multiple Codicies? After all, they seem to have been more accurate with the number of Codicies they required printing than the number of models they needed to produce. Not that they have had enough of the Codicies printed, from what I heard. Most of the models should have been produced in greater numbers than the number of codicies, with special characters being the only reasonable exception to this as they couldn't expect people to pick up multiple copies of "Longstrike" for the same army. The Riptide may also fall into this category as I don't know if you are allowed more than 1 in a force.

I just don't believe that anyone with that sort of power is actually that stupid. whilst the Codex is from a different production stream to the models, it is much more likely that something unexpected happened to decrease availablility of the models which didn't affect the ability to produce and ship the codecies. As shipping could well be done by the same route for both codicies and models, it seems to convenient that only models were affected in that manner, so it is more likely a problem in production.

Yes, I wanted this to be a great release, but even as someone who has a sizeable Tau force from their first release, I don't relish paying £50 for a big battlesuit, £40 each on fighters or bombers (OK, I should be able to magnetise the weapons and make them swapable, but even so!), £30 each to replace the Broadsides I had with much more versatile models, £20 on the Pathfinder Team to get the cool new drone for the Devilfish, £30 on the Codex itself, £25 on the Battlesuit commander, and £20 on characters. That's best part of £300 and I already have two or three squads of firewarriors, several XV8's, and a squad of Kroot. To start this army from scratch and make a versatile and competetive force could well cost £500.

If stores are getting at least the codex then all hope isn't lost. Grab other models (either GW or not) and get some alien auxileries into your Tau force. AT43 Karmans have fantastic broadside and crisis suit stand ins, as are UNA TAC arms, Redblock Kollossus, and others. I've been looking at Dust Tactic's Grim Reapers as suit stand ins. A huge ammount of model kits can make riptides, infinity has tons of good firewarrior/pathfinder models as does Mercs Minis.

You can still suppory your FLGS, get an added fluff bonus (really mixing in all kinds of odd Xenos is the Tau way of Empire), and for those who think this is all an evil plot you keep your money out of GW's hands. My Tau have plent of non GW minis plus plenty of GW minis. Branching out is cheeper and lets me put in models I like that still well represent the model it replaces.

 IdentifyZero wrote:
GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

An important tidbit of wisdom for GW (and any stock market investor) to remember is: "Past performance is not a guarantee of future results"

Today, they enjoy a dominant market position that allows them to be anti-consumer, anti-independent store and anti-Internet. This does not mean that those actions will not result in an erosion of that market position, which will eventually push the company past a tipping point that it's reluctance to change won't magnify into a full-blown collapse. Nor, in fairness, is that doomsday scenario a certainty either.

However, you do not maintain a position by weakening it which appears to be the direction GW is taking their brand. GW is no where near as dominant in the marketplace as they were even five years ago and their own policies are very much to blame for it. They've had a series of pretty impressive blunders with the models (Dreadfleet, the Hobbit, Tau, etc), and head-scratching policies that have resulted in yet more ill-will and mistakes. A probably very accurate opinion is that the current Tau shortage is not malice, but GW's short pre-order window policy coming back to bite them. This is a company that shows no sign of learning from these errors, which simply means they will be repeated. Most people here do not want to see GW fail, but when they do so little to help themselves it's hard to muster much sympathy for them.

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

My company makes a number of product that will help you fix that wall, depending on the size of the dents. You can use the remainder on terrain projects.

Very good points in the OP..

And yes, don't be the guy that shows up to your FLGS that didn't get any inventory with your new Tau models. Seems like common sense, but some people are idiots.

 IdentifyZero wrote:

GW does what they do because they can do it and the vast majority of people in the wargaming community will still support them. The fact is many people have been involved in the GW hobby for decades and GW seems to be content with the position they hold.

It's obvious they don't care about feedback or building hype. They know they don't need to. For every veteran gamer that moves into another system, someone else is dropping money into GW as their entry into wargaming.

What other miniatures company has stores all over the entire world? Bad business practices or not, they recognize they are an industry giant who can do what they want and it blew up with this situation. Somehow I don't think it will change anything.

Being content.
Because they can.
Don't care about feedback.

Empires, historical and business alike, fall when they turn inwards, stagnate and assume themselves eternal. GW only exist in this position for lack of a challenger of sufficient potence, there are several rivals out there all providing a piece of the puzzle but, as of yet, none of them have got it together and offered cheaper, better or as well sculpted, easily obtained miniatures.

Too many are focused on their own games systems, GW openly states 'we are a mini company' because that's where the money is, when a company produces good sculpts, cheaper than GW, that can be used in GW's widely played games systems, that's when the real challenge happens and that's when I can rejoice to see GW revitalize it's self into a better firm, or mourn it's passing and watch what happens to it's IP as the doors are thrown wide open.

Like i said, I think GW is at a turning point, I honestly see them changing for the better in the next few years.

Whether the delay was intentional or not, these things happen in business. Suck it up a wait a few more weeks you crybabies!

.....at least you don't play Bretonnians.

 DX3 wrote:
Very good points in the OP..

And yes, don't be the guy that shows up to your FLGS that didn't get any inventory with your new Tau models. Seems like common sense, but some people are idiots.

What if Tau is my only army and i have the new codex? Am i just supposed to miss out on a few weeks of gaming and possible prizes so people until they get the tau stuff in?

 Fifty wrote:

I suppose it depends on how considerate a person you are.

One of the other threads on this topic started with an email from Alexi, the owner of Dark Sphere. Now, I know Alexi reasonably well, he is a nice enough bloke. We aren't close mates or anything, but I wouldn't want to deliberately upset him. Hell, I've even met his Mum when she has helped out at the store and she is a lovely lady, and I know Andy, who works there, quite well. Now, there is nothing stopping me taking Riptides to the store to play, but it would be a slap in the face for them that I don't think they deserve. Now, maybe a tournament would be different, but I would suggest that for friendly gaming, you don't need your Riptide yet. I used to play quite a lot of DnD in the store there, and Andy would regularly stay back for little or no extra wages to enable us to do so. As a result, I buy stuff from the store that I could get elsewhere. Not everything, but quite a few things. Why would I want to say to them that even though they will put themselves out for me, I will not do the same for them. Bad enough to not buy a Riptide at Dark Sphere (not that I want one), but to take it to the store and show them that I didn't wait for them is just mean.

It is not always about your "rights" or what you are entitled to do, but about being considerate, and thinking about what you are able to do.

Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

Hey, hotsauceman1, you are 100% entitled to do whatever you like, I am sure.

Just as your FLGS, if he takes exception to you flouting your models at his store and feels you have slighted him, might not go out of his way to keep a his last XXX rules supplment or Ltd Ed Blood Bowl (for example) for you when another loyal customer also wants it. I wonder if you are the sort of person, though, who would think they had something reserved, then get surprised when the store owner instead sold the only copy in the local area to the guy who waited a fortnight for his Tau.

Of course, it may not happen this time, but if you want to have things your way this time, you will probably want it your way next time too, and such an attitude tends to come back to bite you on the arse.

As an example of the opposite, I was mentor to a new teacher about six years ago, and defended her from a lot of bullying, even having to go to the local education authority to stop the school breaking their own rules on how to treat her, let alone union rules. I was also the high-flyer at the school at the time in terms of promotion, etc... so I got away with it, and that teacher went to another school where she was very successful. A few years later though, our head teacher instructed us to cheat on internal tests and report fabricated data and I led the teacher rebellion that led to the head quitting her job. The chair of governors and new head teacher, however, bullied me out of my job, despite me having delivered massively record GCSE results for both of my cohorts, without skullduggery. I was desperate to leave, and got my opportunity at the school my friend had gone to, based initially on good reports from her about me. Good deeds come back to reward you, and being a bit selfish does too.

I mean, I am sure that if you genuinely had only Tau, and really really needed your Riptide to compete in a tournament, rather than just friendly play, and said to the store owner, "Hey Bob, sorry about using this Riptide, I know it is a bit cheeky, but there is really no way around it," then as long as you are a standup guy normally, the store owner would probably understand, even if he is a bit cheesed off, and would not hold it against you, but your whole attitude in this thread, through the admittedly and notoriously difficult lens of the internet, comes acress as "I'll do what I like, and stuff you and everyone else who doesn't like it, regardless of whether I might expect something from you in the future."

For whatever reason/conspiracy the release is delayed, I don't really mind. It will be awhile before I get around to picking up even the codex except to maybe read it at my FLGS. Most people I play with now still have old codexes and we come out relatively balanced, so why should I have the new one and they not? The only reason I would want the new 'dex is to see if it fares any better against my now TWO necron friends (ARRRGGHHH! NECRONS! WHHHYYY! *deep breath*) So for at least a little while I'll be running the old dex like a boss. I don't play competitive either so that wont be a problem. The more I see competitive players in warhammer the less I want to play it even casually. They just rub me the wrong way.

 Danny Internets wrote:
Sounds a lot more like an issue of hypersensitivity rather than being considerate. Blaming your patrons for showing up with products that you can't offer and then insulting them on top of it is more than a little ridiculous.

Really, I don't know at what point I even implied that Alexi or Andy might insult anyone who turned up with a Riptide. Think about it though, this is not just a hobby to them. This is how they make a living. It is, very literally, how they feed their families. Mikhaila feels he is likely to lose hundreds of dollars due to this, and I have no reason to doubt him. Dark Sphere is nowhere near as dependent on GW as it used to be, but I dare say Alexi will take a big hit. Now, I am not even sure Dark Sphere run any 40k tournaments, though I know they organise Apoc games. Stores offer prizes as an incentive to come to the store in the hope you will buy goods from them though. Sure, they wouldn't want to enforce a rule that everything must be bought from them, but why rub their nose in the fact that their business just took a big hit? Maybe it means they can't buy their new laptop, maybe it means they can't get their son those toys for his birthday, maybe it means Alexi works a couple of extra Saturdays and Andy gets fewer shifts, but this is a small company with real human concerns, not shareholders hoping for a dividend. It would not hurt to save using your Riptide for a fortnight if it shows at least a modicum of support for their situation, and, unless 100% necessary, maybe not using it in tournaments either. I mean, sure, do what you are entitled to, but as stated in my previous post, don't expect them to go out of their way for you next time either.

 kronk wrote:

 Sergeant Horse wrote:
one of my walls has fresh dents in it from the news I got today

My company makes a number of product that will help you fix that wall, depending on the size of the dents. You can use the remainder on terrain projects.

hahaha nice, now does your company make gauze because this morning my knuckles regret it