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I'm liking this PE and re-roll logic.

So as PE doesn't say you "May" reroll hits, it says you reroll.

SO if you have PE and get a direct hit on the scatter die, and a 1 on a scatter distance die, then you still have to reroll, so it actually makes it harder to get a direct hit with PE.

PS: I don't suppose it matters to anyone that Blast weapons don't roll "to hit" and as PE only allows rerolls when a "to hit" roll is 1.

So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

Fragile wrote:
So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

No, that's not what's being said - excellent straw man thought.

What do the rules ask for? An ability to re-roll.
Does PE allow a re-roll? Yes.

rigeld2 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

No, that's not what's being said - excellent straw man thought.

What do the rules ask for? An ability to re-roll.
Does PE allow a re-roll? Yes.

Yes and PE states you have to reroll, so with blasts you'll always disregard the first roll (hit or miss) and roll again.

Can Prescience give any of my units a reroll? If we are throwing all conditions out of the window...

rigeld2 wrote:
Does PE allow a re-roll? Yes.

The correct answer to that question is "Maybe" or "Sometimes"

Fragile wrote:
So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

No, we ignore your straw man, which ignores the rules.

Can you start providing some to back up your position? It's a simple request - prove yout have an "amount" of reroll you have to have before you can reroll scatter. Anything based on actual rules would be helpful, as you have totally avoided this until now

Sir lynch - any chance you read the thread, which shows you the rulEs on blasts and rerolls, instead of making the same argument as on page one, by thosee unable to.fund the rrule on blasts and rerolls? Thanks

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Does PE allow a re-roll? Yes.

The correct answer to that question is "Maybe" or "Sometimes"

Which is the same answer as any re-roll to-hit ability.
It's exactly as conditional as any other similar ability.

rigeld2 wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:

rigeld2 wrote:
Does PE allow a re-roll? Yes.

The correct answer to that question is "Maybe" or "Sometimes"

Which is the same answer as any re-roll to-hit ability.
It's exactly as conditional as any other similar ability.

I was simply clarifying that it is not a "Yes" answer to that question it is a "Maybe" or "Sometimes" answer.

As long as you agree that they are all worded as "maybe" then sure.
Which is irrelevant.

I reread the Blast rules, and I stick to my previous conclusion. PE grants a reroll on To Hits of 1. The Blasts and Rerolls just says if the model gets to reroll its To Hit rolls then it would reroll the Scatter dice and both the 2D6s. Since PE only grants a single To Hit reroll (that is only of 1) and not multiple To Hit rerolls as the Blast and Rerolls rule describes (singular vs plural), the PEd model/unit would NOT get to reroll the Scatter dice and 2D6s.

A better way to word it actually would be "If you Miss and the misses are the roll of a 1"

Things Does twin linked allow a re-roll? would then be answered "If you miss"

Though the rules are written so that you gain a re-roll for missing, no need for a re-roll if you hit. The context dictates this.

Hmmm, my opinion is that PE grants a re-roll when targeting your preferred enemy.
The rules are that you need a rule that grants a re-roll. PE does so against a PE unit.

 DeathReaper wrote:
A better way to word it actually would be "If you Miss and the misses are the roll of a 1"

Things Does twin linked allow a re-roll? would then be answered "If you miss"

Though the rules are written so that you gain a re-roll for missing, no need for a re-roll if you hit. The context dictates this.

You're moving away from the question that is actually asked and inserting distinctions.

Does PE grant a re-roll?

And there are absolutely reasons to re-roll hits. Precision Shots for one.

Except the rules for twin linked say you re-roll failed to hit rolls (AKA misses), as does Prescience.

PE sometimes grants a re-roll.

Twin Linked, and Prescience grant a re-roll always.

 DeathReaper wrote:
Except the rules for twin linked say you re-roll failed to hit rolls (AKA misses), as does Prescience.

Which is still a "Maybe".
It does not always grant a re-roll to-hit. You have to miss first.
PE does not always grant a re-roll to-hit. You have to roll a 1 first.

Note that the actual rule doesn't care about how you get the re-roll, just that you have one.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 DeathReaper wrote:
Twin Linked, and Prescience grant a re-roll always.

That's incorrect, and you know it is because you said it correctly first.
You have to miss with either one to get a re-roll.

No PE grant's a re-roll when you roll a 1 AND when you are fighting a preferred enemy.
That is the conditional issue here IMHO. I don't like that re-rolls of 1 give the ability to re-roll blasts scatter or plasma cannons get's hot but it does appear to be consistent RAW.

However if you're telling me that a LF with an attacked Wolf Priest that has PE monstrous creature gets to re-roll it's scatter when shooting infantry I don't see why. The rule only cares that you have one, grand but a conditional re-roll that is based on more than just missing a target and requires a certain type of target is a very different animal to a blanket ability to re-roll 1s. If a PE(MC) unit is shooting at "not MCs" how does it have a re-roll?

The rules are written on the basis that needing a re-roll is because you missed.

If you hit there is no reason to, nor can you re-roll.

 DeathReaper wrote:
The rules are written on the basis that needing a re-roll is because you missed.

If you hit there is no reason to, nor can you re-roll.

The first half of your sentence is false, and the second is only true for now - there's no guarantee the next codex won't invalidate that statement.
So have fun with your biased assumptions, ill be over here with what the rules actually say.

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

No, we ignore your straw man, which ignores the rules.

Can you start providing some to back up your position? It's a simple request - prove yout have an "amount" of reroll you have to have before you can reroll scatter. Anything based on actual rules would be helpful, as you have totally avoided this until now

Sir lynch - any chance you read the thread, which shows you the rulEs on blasts and rerolls, instead of making the same argument as on page one, by thosee unable to.fund the rrule on blasts and rerolls? Thanks

You claim that PE grants a reroll regardless of having to roll a 1. You cannot apply that to blast weapons and not to any other. If you ignore the having to roll a 1 for blast, then you can ignore the 1 for any other weapon.

As far as rules, its clearly written. You have to roll a 1. Show me a 1 on a scatter die.

Show me a failed "roll to hit" on a scatter dice & 2D6. Keep in mind the brb defines what a "roll to hit" quite clearly, there is a table and everything.
Anything that grants a re-roll for "rolls to hit" cannot be applied to a scatter dice if we follow that logic and ignore the rules for blasts.

What about the Objuration Mechanicum psychic power, that forces the enemy unit to re-roll To Hit rolls of 6. Would that suddenly also grant the enemy unit to re-roll the scatter die for (Large) Blast weapons?

Fragile wrote:

nosferatu1001 wrote:

Fragile wrote:
So if we are ignoring the fact that we are required to have a 1 in order to reroll, by that logic, you could reroll 2's, 3's... etc... because you have "the ability to reroll" without the limiter.

No, we ignore your straw man, which ignores the rules.

Can you start providing some to back up your position? It's a simple request - prove yout have an "amount" of reroll you have to have before you can reroll scatter. Anything based on actual rules would be helpful, as you have totally avoided this until now

Sir lynch - any chance you read the thread, which shows you the rulEs on blasts and rerolls, instead of making the same argument as on page one, by thosee unable to.fund the rrule on blasts and rerolls? Thanks

You claim that PE grants a reroll regardless of having to roll a 1. You cannot apply that to blast weapons and not to any other. If you ignore the having to roll a 1 for blast, then you can ignore the 1 for any other weapon.

As far as rules, its clearly written. You have to roll a 1. Show me a 1 on a scatter die.

It does, when you are rolling for Blast weapons> That is because the actual rules for blast weapons simply ask you if you get a reroll to hit - which you do. Show me a "1" on a BS5 model with reroll to hit rolling for Scatter - then you get your reroll. Oh, wait, that isnt how Blasts work - as you NEVER roll to hit with blasts, INSTEAD you roll the scatter dice! Almost like you're ignoring the rules...

Again: ANY Rules to support your contention? I continue to see a startling lack from you. Further failure to provide a rule stating that you must have an "amount" of reroll to-hit before you get to reroll scattrer (remember - the two are different things - something you are struggling with) will be treated as your concession.

 Redemption wrote:
What about the Objuration Mechanicum psychic power, that forces the enemy unit to re-roll To Hit rolls of 6. Would that suddenly also grant the enemy unit to re-roll the scatter die for (Large) Blast weapons?

I would say no. I'd say it gives you a re-roll to miss.
Objuration Mechanicum isn't a re-roll "to hit". You had already hit (you rolled a 6), you are forced to re-roll the result to cause a miss, not a hit.
Yes, that's reaching, but it seems to make sense.

"to hit" is, however, a defined term Matt - it has a specific meaning in the rules.

Old Eldar Guide alllwed you a reroll to-hit;. You could (and often did) reroll hits in order to get more Ap1 from a ranger unit. This being optional does not make it different to the malediction whenyou apply it to a hit.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
If you have the ability to re-roll, you re-roll the scatter.
PE gives you the ability to reroll - 1's only maybe, but you DO get to reroll. The rules for blasts do not require that you be able to reroll *all* dice
In short, I agree with Peregrine. Which really doesnt happen often

This might come as a shock, but even I agree with you

Nosferatu, the Blasts with Rerolls rule has this as an amount of rerolls to qualify a Blast for rerolling the scatter dice and 2D6:

[i]If a model has the ability to re-roll its rolls To Hit and chooses to do so after firing a Blast weapon, the player must re-roll both the scatter dice and the 2D6."

The amount to qualify is right in the rule; it's plural ROLLS To Hit, as in more than a single instance of missing, not just 1 particular dice roll that it would usually be rerolling if rolling a D6 for a To Hit. That's why Prescient Blasts would get to reroll the scatter/2D6.

This interpretation is not ignoring any rules, and I feel it's a balanced way of viewing the rules. Preferred Enemy wouldn't grant rerolling the hitting in this case of Blasts, but Blasts increase the chance of hitting more than a single model, and it would grant rerolling some wounding.

1's happen in a plural just like misses which both cause re-rolls to hit.

@Nos, do you think PE would work when not shooting at a PE enemy?

No, the 1s do not cause the reroll of the scatter dice and 2D6. My view is just as valid as yours. The plural does make a difference. If the Blasts and Rerolls said, "If the model rerolls any of its To Hit rolls then it may choose...." then I would agree with you.

And if the enemy target is not of the Preferred Enemy type specified in the army/unit rules, you most certainly would not get a reroll of the scatter dice. If you wouldn't get a reroll To Hit with a non-blast weapon then there is no reroll To Hit at all. That's just silly to think otherwise.

nosferatu1001 wrote:
It does, when you are rolling for Blast weapons> That is because the actual rules for blast weapons simply ask you if you get a reroll to hit - which you do. Show me a "1" on a BS5 model with reroll to hit rolling for Scatter - then you get your reroll. Oh, wait, that isnt how Blasts work - as you NEVER roll to hit with blasts, INSTEAD you roll the scatter dice! Almost like you're ignoring the rules...

Like your ignoring the requirement to roll a 1. Funny that Gets Hots has a mechanic to "roll a 1" but PE doesnt. Its almost like your making up rules.... that dont work...

Again: ANY Rules to support your contention? I continue to see a startling lack from you. Further failure to provide a rule stating that you must have an "amount" of reroll to-hit before you get to reroll scattrer (remember - the two are different things - something you are struggling with) will be treated as your concession.

Almost every argument you have seems to have a statement like this is it. Is this your escape when losing an argument ?