Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Elemental wrote: How would you have reacted if the price of the codex had been more honestly hiked to $75? Because that is what's happening.
LOL I live in Australia.. I bought my codex for $83 so totally fine with $75
Did people care so much when things similar to this were released in the white dwarf? I mean... the argument for "why wasent this in the codex" could of been used then? Is this not similar to a digital release of that information just on a grander scale?
And what about chapter approved? I am not 100% but didnt that contain extra rules?
BlaxicanX wrote: I'm assuming that GW wouldn't be goofy enough to count the Tyrannic War Veterans e-book as one of the three Tyranid slates?
Lol. But no, there is a difference. It's not that we dont like paying extra (which we dont) it's that it is PAINFULLY obvious that GW has made our codex BULL CRAP, killing a certain model, just to sell us this dataslate bull crap.
"All three of these are going to have new datasheet formations for Tyranid armies to use"
Would suggest no.
Why, you don't believe GW would allow Tyrannic War Veterans to ally with Tyranids to fight against Ultramarines ?
There was remarkably little complaining about Cypher's obvious omission from the Dark Angel codex.
Why the hell Cypher would have been in DA codex? It would make about as much sense than Yarrick being in Ork codex (or indeed Tyrannic war veterans being in Tyranid codex.)
Cypher was in the 3rd Edition Codex (iirc the first, or the first modern codex anyway), hiis omission from the 6th edition codex disapointed a lot of Dark Angel vets.. Imo if it weren't for the data slate format he would have been in the 6th Edition DA codex; since the designers cearly hadn't forgotten about him or purged him from the fluff, and he already has a model - there would be no cost whatsoever.
Frankly I still think it's more of a mystery of why he was cut from the 5th edition Dark Angel codex. As I say, he does have a model out and they're not above just c&ping his fluff.
Ummm Cypher was in the 3rd edition CSM Codex, not the DA codex. I'm flipping through it right now just to confirm it.
JWhex wrote: For the price you are paying for a codex it is ridiculous to have to pay extra for this content.
Oh please. You're talking about $6.99 for a Dataslate as though it's some obscene amount, with no idea of exactly what kind of content is within.
NO HE ISNT!
He's talking about the price of a codex, one that can be questioned as having being produced intentionally lacking content, in order to generate additional sales with more game-valuable content in online transactions.
Add-ons and top-ups might be a mere 6.99, so what happens when they start releasing them every other week, over the space of 4 years, and you need them to remain able to fight what everyone else is buying? (well, the everyone else who's left playing).
I personally am very worried that this, along with many other changes taking place in 6th, are killing the game, the hobby and the company, in the long term and I'd really like them to stop jumping shark after shark and reign it back in a bit, before they screw a jump and the shark gets them.
From a business perspective what GW is doing makes sense. If you are a casual gamer, you do not NEED to pick up the dataslates. You can buy them if it interests you. If you want to be competitive then you may need them. It has always been more costly to compete. However, if tournaments ban them, then it will not be necessary to buy them at all.
I find the more frequent introduction of rules and units refreshing and a good thing. This being said, these types of things should not follow right on the heels of the codex.
Regular releases have not killed games like MTG. I do not think that it will for 40k. It would be nice to get stuff for an army more than once every four or so years.
I stopped buying GW stuff a couple of years ago, so this does not effect me very much. I still play their games occasionally.
There exist companies in the miniature wargaming industry that regularly release new unit profiles, new missions and other new material on their website, for free. This is what Games Workshop USED to do.
bodazoka wrote: And what about chapter approved? I am not 100% but didnt that contain extra rules?
It did, but there was never the feeling that they were deliberately making the codices worse to justify selling those extra rules separately. These were not Day 1 DLC, and for a while there you could tell the developers were trying damn hard to make the codices the best they could be.
"When I became a man I put away childish things, including the fear of childishness and the desire to be very grown up."
-C.S. Lewis
bodazoka wrote: And what about chapter approved? I am not 100% but didnt that contain extra rules?
It did, but there was never the feeling that they were deliberately making the codices worse to justify selling those extra rules separately. These were not Day 1 DLC, and for a while there you could tell the developers were trying damn hard to make the codices the best they could be.
People that think they make rules poor to sell more product need to put there tin hats back on...
Was Belakor's release announced one day after Daemons came out?
No. There is a clear distinction between "additional content" and "content that was obviously taken out of the codex so that it could be sold later".
It's why you'll never see a gamer complain about the DLC that comes out for, say, Fallout or Skyrim, which are massive packs of additional content and come out months after the game's release, but you DO hear them bitch about "Day 1 DLC" and gak that's being sold as additional content but was obviously created at the same time as the game.
"Additional content" should be additional. It shouldn't be content that was clearly created at the exact same time as an entire product yet held back by some bean-counter so that it could be released as a separate entity later.
I certainly do not know what is in the dataslates. It is a bit premature to argue that they have content that was held back from the codex. I would not be surprised if they were just gakky apoc type units. The usual formula is to impose some kind of unit restrictions, and also to have some special rule (which may come from the rulebook.) For example your tyranid advance force must have the Lictor character as HQ and at least two squads of genesteelers. Any unit in your army may outflank. (I hope that GW puts more effort into it than this. However, it would not surprise me if they did not.)
Other companies give profiles away for free becasue they are a lot smaller than GW and need to grow their player base. Privateer Press have an app with some of their stats on but the rest are paid for DLC.
He's talking about the price of a codex, one that can be questioned as having being produced intentionally lacking content, in order to generate additional sales with more game-valuable content in online transactions.
This argument that is carried on over and over seems crazy to me, you didn't hear one Demons player complaining about Belakor not being in thier codex and demanding his dataslate for free. The codex is fully playable, maybe not to the level that many people personally desire, but it is. A dataslate is not content that should of been required in the codex and it is not a right for people to own because they bought an over-priced codex.
I don't advocate the purchase of dataslates in the least. Actually I refuse to buy them. But they are bonus content that GW pays to produce.
I said it can be questioned.
And why on earth shouldn't dataslates or whatever be free?
PDF codices used to be free, there used to be full rules for using new models online for free. If you produce a good set of additional rules, for free, online, your sales of the model will go up... So asking for more money for the rules themselves, when we have other companies putting their entire ruleset online for free, seems a little desperate/greedy/like your trying to fight back the recently released financial report by clutching for every last grain of sand???
They are a model company first and foremost, so this would.make sense to do again.
Bloodwin wrote: Other companies give profiles away for free becasue they are a lot smaller than GW and need to grow their player base. Privateer Press have an app with some of their stats on but the rest are paid for DLC.
The digital version are, but you also get physical cards for free with the miniatures.
"The 75mm gun is firing. The 37mm gun is firing, but is traversed round the wrong way. The Browning is jammed. I am saying "Driver, advance." and the driver, who can't hear me, is reversing. And as I look over the top of the turret and see twelve enemy tanks fifty yards away, someone hands me a cheese sandwich."
Bloodwin wrote: Other companies give profiles away for free becasue they are a lot smaller than GW and need to grow their player base. Privateer Press have an app with some of their stats on but the rest are paid for DLC.
You don't have the first clue about what you are talking about.
Theme forces that are the PP equivalent of dataslates come included in the normal Warmahordes books.
Any extra Theme forces that PP decides to launch are released for free in No Quarter (the PP equivalent to White Dwarf), and also, again for no extra cost, in their digital app.
There was remarkably little complaining about Cypher's obvious omission from the Dark Angel codex.
Why the hell Cypher would have been in DA codex? It would make about as much sense than Yarrick being in Ork codex (or indeed Tyrannic war veterans being in Tyranid codex.)
Cypher was in the 3rd Edition Codex (iirc the first, or the first modern codex anyway), hiis omission from the 6th edition codex disapointed a lot of Dark Angel vets.. Imo if it weren't for the data slate format he would have been in the 6th Edition DA codex; since the designers cearly hadn't forgotten about him or purged him from the fluff, and he already has a model - there would be no cost whatsoever.
Frankly I still think it's more of a mystery of why he was cut from the 5th edition Dark Angel codex. As I say, he does have a model out and they're not above just c&ping his fluff.
Ummm Cypher was in the 3rd edition CSM Codex, not the DA codex. I'm flipping through it right now just to confirm it.
In fact, Cypher has NEVER been in a DA Codex. He appeared in the 2nd Ed Chaos Codex, 3rd Ed Chaos Codex, a White Dwarf issue, and now this DLC. There's no reason for him to be in a DA book as he's not(and never has been) field-able by them.
If anything, he should have been in the CSM book, but no one complained about it because he hadn't been included in one in 3 books and 3 editions.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
bodazoka wrote: Bought the war veterans dataslate you havent?
Space marines -> I am not buying. Except maybe if they are being slowly tortured, and NOT by other space marines. Or at least ridiculed by some puny craven commissar, so Ciaphas Cain's book are okay.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
In fact, Cypher has NEVER been in a DA Codex. He appeared in the 2nd Ed Chaos Codex, 3rd Ed Chaos Codex, a White Dwarf issue, and now this DLC. There's no reason for him to be in a DA book as he's not(and never has been) field-able by them.
His page on the website hilariously still says he can be used as a count-as Dark Angels commander (despite how his Dataslate says he can't). Although despite how he's stated to be useable as a Dark Angels commander, he's always been only in the Chaos Marine section of the site and not in the Dark Angels army list section.
I'll hold my judgement until I see the dataslates. If GW end up releasing a dataslate that lets you take 2+ saves on Tyranids, then I'll finally know it is pay-to-win.
In fact, Cypher has NEVER been in a DA Codex. He appeared in the 2nd Ed Chaos Codex, 3rd Ed Chaos Codex, a White Dwarf issue, and now this DLC. There's no reason for him to be in a DA book as he's not(and never has been) field-able by them.
His page on the website hilariously still says he can be used as a count-as Dark Angels commander (despite how his Dataslate says he can't). Although despite how he's stated to be useable as a Dark Angels commander, he's always been only in the Chaos Marine section of the site and not in the Dark Angels army list section.
There's nobody who will say "You cannot use the Cypher model to represent a Dark Angels Commander with a Combi-Plasma and Power Sword".
The model is pretty perfect for it, and since counts-as does not mean that "I'm going to use Cypher and his rules as a stand-in Dark Angels Commander" it's a pretty acceptable thing.
Even though its supposed to be MLP, it doesn't half look bad. New horse-like unit for rapid, above ground chases of fast moving targets.
Genestealer Cavalry! So badass an...
Dear god, somebody save me!
I'm celebrating 8 years on Dakka Dakka!
I started an Instagram! Follow me at Deadshot Miniatures! DR:90+S++G+++M+B+IPw40k08#-D+++A+++/cwd363R+++T(Ot)DM+ Check out my Deathwatch story, Aftermath in the fiction section!
Credit to Castiel for banner. Thanks Cas!
What I do not like however is how much of a blatant money grab this is. If the dataslates were reasliss around March/April time onwards I wouldn't care, but it's the fact that pne is being realised the same month as the codex, essentially saying the codex sucks and we know it does, buy our dataslates and you might be able to do well!
If the rumours about the designers running out of time with the codex are true, it is possible that this is their way to patch it instead of it being a mere money grab. It remains to be seen with the next codex release whether this is actually a new, planned strategy, or merely a one time panic move to fix a broken codex.
If it were a "patch" instead of "DLC" it'd be published in White Dwarf (of whatever format) as well as published on the website for free.
To the horror of the planetary governor of Satys, a Tyranid hive fleet has cut the planet off from Warp communication, and its creatures are infiltrating the furthest reaches of the planet. The irradiated jungles are being stalked by Lictors, while Genestealers are starting to infest the manufactorums. It is up to the planet’s two Catachan regiments as well as a small strike force of the Aurora Chapter to lead the planet’s defence. But the Hive Mind rapidly responds to the defenders’ tactics, and soon begins to overwhelm the Imperial forces...
About this Book:
Leviathan Rising is the first book in a trilogy of Tyranid Dataslates, each of which details the different stages of Hive Fleet Leviathan’s assault upon the planet of Satys. This first installment showcases the vanguard organisms of the Tyranid fleet. It contains formations, missions and rules so that you can re-create the hideous invasion techniques of Hive Fleet Leviathan in your games of Warhammer 40,000.
So here are two of the new formations:
It looks like they used two different formats to screw with the page counts. As of right now though, $14.99 for 91 or 113 pages...assuming the page counts are accurate.
Also this "dlc created at the same time as the game" is a myth. If you follow Paradox games you'll know that DLC is created *after* the devs have finished the product and it's in the production/marketing eather. In 40k terms, the game developers start working on data slates after the codex has been written, while it is being printed/edited etc.
Taking one example from one company in the videogame industry and then pretending that it applies across the board to videogaming, and then extrapolating it as a "fact" that it also applies to the way that GW works is rather disingenuous. It's also completely wrong.
I guess using your rather feeble logic, this "proves" that all DLC is created at the same time as the main game, and by extension that the 40k DLC is also created at the same time as the codices.
1. Belakor was never part of the Chaos Codex - never even part of 40KIIRC - so of course there was no demand or outcry for him when the Chaos Codex came out. No one ever expected to get him.
2. As mentioned earlier, Cypher hasn't had in-print rules since the first 3rd Ed Chaos Codex. That's 1999. Before that he was only in the 2nd Ed Chaos Codex. He's never been in a Dark Angel Codex. So the idea that Dark Angel players would be demanding him in their Codex is a little odd.
These DLC dataslate thingies, just like the bigger Supplements, belong in their parent Codices. There's no need (beyond greed) to release these as separate (overpriced) PDF releases. Write all the fluff you want, but when there's a book as large as the Codex that only has 3 pages of actual rules, I'd rather you just put those 3 pages in the damned Codex to begin with.
To the horror of the planetary governor of Satys, a Tyranid hive fleet has cut the planet off from Warp communication, and its creatures are infiltrating the furthest reaches of the planet. The irradiated jungles are being stalked by Lictors, while Genestealers are starting to infest the manufactorums. It is up to the planet’s two Catachan regiments as well as a small strike force of the Aurora Chapter to lead the planet’s defence. But the Hive Mind rapidly responds to the defenders’ tactics, and soon begins to overwhelm the Imperial forces...
About this Book:
Leviathan Rising is the first book in a trilogy of Tyranid Dataslates, each of which details the different stages of Hive Fleet Leviathan’s assault upon the planet of Satys. This first installment showcases the vanguard organisms of the Tyranid fleet. It contains formations, missions and rules so that you can re-create the hideous invasion techniques of Hive Fleet Leviathan in your games of Warhammer 40,000.
So here are two of the new formations:
It looks like they used two different formats to screw with the page counts. As of right now though, $14.99 for 91 or 113 pages...assuming the page counts are accurate.
Thanks, Kanluwen. Looks like an easy skip for me, though. Formations in Dataslates are one of GW's worst ideas for rules...
~4100
~1660
