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 Crazyterran wrote:
It's a nifty trick, but compared to dark wolf scars, whom don't need this or most of the powers from this update (other than
Veil of Time, perhaps?) or Centurion Stars, whom would eother already have ignores cover from being white scars or rolling Divination to pick up Prescience, I don't really see a need to roll on Geokinesis, over, say, Fulmination or Librarius.

Its a neat trick, but not game smashingly awful like everyone is making it out to be.

Yep you called it. Fulmination actually has the most powerful spell. Electrodisplacement - 24 inch unit swap whilst retaining assault ability. This ability is actually game breaking.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
It's a nifty trick, but compared to dark wolf scars, whom don't need this or most of the powers from this update (other than
Veil of Time, perhaps?) or Centurion Stars, whom would eother already have ignores cover from being white scars or rolling Divination to pick up Prescience, I don't really see a need to roll on Geokinesis, over, say, Fulmination or Librarius.

Its a neat trick, but not game smashingly awful like everyone is making it out to be.

Yep you called it. Fulmination actually has the most powerful spell. Electrodisplacement - 24 inch unit swap whilst retaining assault ability. This ability is actually game breaking.

No its not. You get one unit in a perfect charge location. Good for you. Is it very very good? Yes, yes it is, but its not game breaking because there are now several ways to get turn 1 charges.

Shifting Worldscape lets you with the board. Hell in Capture the Relic it could be argued that the Relic moves with the terrain, so if that Relic is on Terrain you can just win Turn 1. Also if you have dudes in a Ruin (and most armies will) your opponent gets to chuck them around the map and theres nothing you can do about it because the ability doesnt target them. So no bonus to Deny the Witch from having a Psyker or Adamatium Will, the only way to stop it with any reliability is a Culexus.

It gets worse if multiple Psykers have it as now they can just box your army in Ruins and put all of your dudes next to each other where one Apocalyptic Blast can kill them all. GG go home.

 Grimmor wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
It's a nifty trick, but compared to dark wolf scars, whom don't need this or most of the powers from this update (other than
Veil of Time, perhaps?) or Centurion Stars, whom would eother already have ignores cover from being white scars or rolling Divination to pick up Prescience, I don't really see a need to roll on Geokinesis, over, say, Fulmination or Librarius.

Its a neat trick, but not game smashingly awful like everyone is making it out to be.

Yep you called it. Fulmination actually has the most powerful spell. Electrodisplacement - 24 inch unit swap whilst retaining assault ability. This ability is actually game breaking.

No its not. You get one unit in a perfect charge location. Good for you. Is it very very good? Yes, yes it is, but its not game breaking because there are now several ways to get turn 1 charges.

Shifting Worldscape lets you with the board. Hell in Capture the Relic it could be argued that the Relic moves with the terrain, so if that Relic is on Terrain you can just win Turn 1. Also if you have dudes in a Ruin (and most armies will) your opponent gets to chuck them around the map and theres nothing you can do about it because the ability doesnt target them. So no bonus to Deny the Witch from having a Psyker or Adamatium Will, the only way to stop it with any reliability is a Culexus.

It gets worse if multiple Psykers have it as now they can just box your army in Ruins and put all of your dudes next to each other where one Apocalyptic Blast can kill them all. GG go home.

Seriously why are people still trying to push for objective movement.

There is NO permission to move objectives. the only ways to move relics is to be holding it by a unit. it additionally cannot ever move more than 6" otherwise it pops off anyway.

 Desubot wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
It's a nifty trick, but compared to dark wolf scars, whom don't need this or most of the powers from this update (other than
Veil of Time, perhaps?) or Centurion Stars, whom would eother already have ignores cover from being white scars or rolling Divination to pick up Prescience, I don't really see a need to roll on Geokinesis, over, say, Fulmination or Librarius.

Its a neat trick, but not game smashingly awful like everyone is making it out to be.

Yep you called it. Fulmination actually has the most powerful spell. Electrodisplacement - 24 inch unit swap whilst retaining assault ability. This ability is actually game breaking.

No its not. You get one unit in a perfect charge location. Good for you. Is it very very good? Yes, yes it is, but its not game breaking because there are now several ways to get turn 1 charges.

Shifting Worldscape lets you with the board. Hell in Capture the Relic it could be argued that the Relic moves with the terrain, so if that Relic is on Terrain you can just win Turn 1. Also if you have dudes in a Ruin (and most armies will) your opponent gets to chuck them around the map and theres nothing you can do about it because the ability doesnt target them. So no bonus to Deny the Witch from having a Psyker or Adamatium Will, the only way to stop it with any reliability is a Culexus.

It gets worse if multiple Psykers have it as now they can just box your army in Ruins and put all of your dudes next to each other where one Apocalyptic Blast can kill them all. GG go home.

Seriously why are people still trying to push for objective movement.

There is NO permission to move objectives. the only ways to move relics is to be holding it by a unit. it additionally cannot ever move more than 6" otherwise it pops off anyway.

Its why i said "argued". I wouldnt argue that, but some people would.

Its the gift that keeps on giving isnt it :/

I don't like it.

In casual games it will be hilarious. In tournaments it will be FAQ'd so as to not be useable.

 SickSix wrote:
In casual games it will be hilarious. In tournaments it will be FAQ'd so as to not be useable.

Yah it's a non-starter for tournaments. This is one of the los blockers from the last tournament I ran. I could see a few problems....

Welp, this all sounds hilariously stupid.
I guess I can just CTA ally a librarius conclave, and pile my genestealer cult into an aquila strongpoint in the shape of a giant limo.

Even better when both players do it, and we can just drive our big idiotships around the battlefield. Firing full broadside into the enemy before staging a boarding action.

That sounds pretty fun actually.

Arson Fire wrote:
Welp, this all sounds hilariously stupid.
I guess I can just CTA ally a librarius conclave, and pile my genestealer cult into an aquila strongpoint in the shape of a giant limo.

Even better when both players do it, and we can just drive our big idiotships around the battlefield. Firing full broadside into the enemy before staging a boarding action.

That sounds pretty fun actually.

I fail to see a problem with this.

Arson Fire wrote:
Welp, this all sounds hilariously stupid.
I guess I can just CTA ally a librarius conclave, and pile my genestealer cult into an aquila strongpoint in the shape of a giant limo.

Even better when both players do it, and we can just drive our big idiotships around the battlefield. Firing full broadside into the enemy before staging a boarding action.

That sounds pretty fun actually.

See, if this is what we are doing im making an Ork Battleship and filling it with Lootas, cuz that would be fun. In any sort of serious match though, it gets crazy fast.

 Grimmor wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crazyterran wrote:
It's a nifty trick, but compared to dark wolf scars, whom don't need this or most of the powers from this update (other than
Veil of Time, perhaps?) or Centurion Stars, whom would eother already have ignores cover from being white scars or rolling Divination to pick up Prescience, I don't really see a need to roll on Geokinesis, over, say, Fulmination or Librarius.

Its a neat trick, but not game smashingly awful like everyone is making it out to be.

Yep you called it. Fulmination actually has the most powerful spell. Electrodisplacement - 24 inch unit swap whilst retaining assault ability. This ability is actually game breaking.

No its not. You get one unit in a perfect charge location. Good for you. Is it very very good? Yes, yes it is, but its not game breaking because there are now several ways to get turn 1 charges.

Shifting Worldscape lets you with the board. Hell in Capture the Relic it could be argued that the Relic moves with the terrain, so if that Relic is on Terrain you can just win Turn 1. Also if you have dudes in a Ruin (and most armies will) your opponent gets to chuck them around the map and theres nothing you can do about it because the ability doesnt target them. So no bonus to Deny the Witch from having a Psyker or Adamatium Will, the only way to stop it with any reliability is a Culexus.

It gets worse if multiple Psykers have it as now they can just box your army in Ruins and put all of your dudes next to each other where one Apocalyptic Blast can kill them all. GG go home.

Seriously why are people still trying to push for objective movement.

There is NO permission to move objectives. the only ways to move relics is to be holding it by a unit. it additionally cannot ever move more than 6" otherwise it pops off anyway.

Its why i said "argued". I wouldnt argue that, but some people would.

Which in turn is a prime example of how most of these rules complaints go down. People make up nightmare scenarios and builds that no sane people would like to play with, or in worst case, like here, even is an faulty interpretation of the rules fit to cause extra problems. Then they proceed throw their miniatures out the window saying the game is trash and take themselves to the forums with pitchforks in hand. Whatever happened to the rule of cool, i remember that the rulebooks used to have an intro text about how you should always agree on what is ok and what is not when the rules were unclear. Have we really become such a bunch of degenerates that we like to just play a war game to piss off our friends? I doubt that.

 Meos wrote:

Which in turn is a prime example of how most of these rules complaints go down. People make up nightmare scenarios and builds that no sane people would like to play with, or in worst case, like here, even is an faulty interpretation of the rules fit to cause extra problems. Then they proceed throw their miniatures out the window saying the game is trash and take themselves to the forums with pitchforks in hand. Whatever happened to the rule of cool, i remember that the rulebooks used to have an intro text about how you should always agree on what is ok and what is not when the rules were unclear. Have we really become such a bunch of degenerates that we like to just play a war game to piss off our friends? I doubt that.

No, but if i go to a Tournament im not playing my firends. Im playing people i dont know and may never see again. So quite a few people would use this power in that context. I wouldnt, but then again im not the kind of person who shows up with 3 Wraithknights (or their equivalents).

On top of this, 40k has vague, often poorly written, rules. While many of us know that an Objective remains where you placed it on the board, some people may believe that it would move with the terrain. These people are wrong, but that wont stop them from arguing the point.

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

 Meos wrote:
Which in turn is a prime example of how most of these rules complaints go down. People make up nightmare scenarios and builds that no sane people would like to play with, or in worst case, like here, even is an faulty interpretation of the rules fit to cause extra problems. Then they proceed throw their miniatures out the window saying the game is trash and take themselves to the forums with pitchforks in hand. Whatever happened to the rule of cool, i remember that the rulebooks used to have an intro text about how you should always agree on what is ok and what is not when the rules were unclear. Have we really become such a bunch of degenerates that we like to just play a war game to piss off our friends? I doubt that.

"Rule of cool", "playing among friends" and the usual "beer & pretzels" are fine and all that, but still far from a valid excuse for the terrible state of 40k rules. Specially considering how much GW charges for them.

My biggest issue with this and this is from a marine player is it doesn't feel like a loyalist power. Shifting around the battlefield reeks of chaos and I would rather that CSM had gotten this. I personally don't intend to take it.

Korinov wrote:

 Meos wrote:
Which in turn is a prime example of how most of these rules complaints go down. People make up nightmare scenarios and builds that no sane people would like to play with, or in worst case, like here, even is an faulty interpretation of the rules fit to cause extra problems. Then they proceed throw their miniatures out the window saying the game is trash and take themselves to the forums with pitchforks in hand. Whatever happened to the rule of cool, i remember that the rulebooks used to have an intro text about how you should always agree on what is ok and what is not when the rules were unclear. Have we really become such a bunch of degenerates that we like to just play a war game to piss off our friends? I doubt that.

"Rule of cool", "playing among friends" and the usual "beer & pretzels" are fine and all that, but still far from a valid excuse for the terrible state of 40k rules. Specially considering how much GW charges for them.

Exalted for Truth

HoundsofDemos wrote:My biggest issue with this and this is from a marine player is it doesn't feel like a loyalist power. Shifting around the battlefield reeks of chaos and I would rather that CSM had gotten this. I personally don't intend to take it.

Bless you you glorious bastard....

I have to agree with Demos on this. Messing around with the battlefield seems more like a Chaos thing to do than a Loyalist one, and I have to ask, did we REALLY need 4 new tables all to ourselves?

 War Kitten wrote:
I have to agree with Demos on this. Messing around with the battlefield seems more like a Chaos thing to do than a Loyalist one, and I have to ask, did we REALLY need 4 new tables all to ourselves?

Nah, Chaos is more about inflicting copious amounts of self-harm in exchange for little or no benefit.

 War Kitten wrote:
I have to agree with Demos on this. Messing around with the battlefield seems more like a Chaos thing to do than a Loyalist one, and I have to ask, did we REALLY need 4 new tables all to ourselves?

Nope, not, one, bit. And I play marines. More and more in a 30k setting because of silly crap like this, I miss 40k being a skirmish game instead of apoc sillyness. Marines aren't hurting.

 Korinov wrote:

 Meos wrote:
Which in turn is a prime example of how most of these rules complaints go down. People make up nightmare scenarios and builds that no sane people would like to play with, or in worst case, like here, even is an faulty interpretation of the rules fit to cause extra problems. Then they proceed throw their miniatures out the window saying the game is trash and take themselves to the forums with pitchforks in hand. Whatever happened to the rule of cool, i remember that the rulebooks used to have an intro text about how you should always agree on what is ok and what is not when the rules were unclear. Have we really become such a bunch of degenerates that we like to just play a war game to piss off our friends? I doubt that.

"Rule of cool", "playing among friends" and the usual "beer & pretzels" are fine and all that, but still far from a valid excuse for the terrible state of 40k rules. Specially considering how much GW charges for them.

I'll state it now so people won't think I have a total turd-cake of a brain. You all stating that the rules should be fixed and that "casual" playing is not an excuse for gakky rules are absolutely right, and i thoroughly agree with you. I would also very much like to see a more solid rule-set (hence me supporting the ideas of a database based rule set as seen in this thread http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/180/687396.page#8596191 which has worked fine for epic). I just find it silly people take things to the extreme here talking about stuff that are clearly exploitation of the rules. Yes, ultimately the amount of exploits like that should be minimized (whilst the new psychic powers seem to only encourage it) but at the same time, there will always be something like that around if we want a truckload of cool and interesting rules, hence me wanting to remind people of the rule of cool. It just looks like it's occasionally forgotten when people come up with the most bizarre play styles and lists just to curb stomp others (definitely not cool).

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

Arson Fire wrote:
Welp, this all sounds hilariously stupid.
I guess I can just CTA ally a librarius conclave, and pile my genestealer cult into an aquila strongpoint in the shape of a giant limo.

Even better when both players do it, and we can just drive our big idiotships around the battlefield. Firing full broadside into the enemy before staging a boarding action.

That sounds pretty fun actually.

Battlefleet Gothic at 40k scale

This was the moment I realised how much fun this is going to be, tricking out a sky shield as a fully customisable flying saucer, using psykers as the engine room, attack bikes as torpedoes etc.

I'm seriously looking forward to playing someone with it - though I think the game type needs a different name since it has as much relevance to 'standard' 40k as it does to dreadfleet.

Arson Fire wrote:
Welp, this all sounds hilariously stupid.
I guess I can just CTA ally a librarius conclave, and pile my genestealer cult into an aquila strongpoint in the shape of a giant limo.

Even better when both players do it, and we can just drive our big idiotships around the battlefield. Firing full broadside into the enemy before staging a boarding action.

That sounds pretty fun actually.

And would you really go trough the trouble to build such an army if you didn't have the models needed, just for the sake of making a mess? Would that really, honestly, actually be fun? Do you expect to play against a player who does that? Would you not simply throw your hands in the air and say good night and good riddance to your opponent if he did this?

Now you are probably joking, maybe you would like to play a game like that once, i would likely do it for the laughs too. But some people seem to really be scared of this which is utterly silly.

Finally! I can paint a Bastion silver and use magic to float it across the board. Silver Towers of Tzeentch! Thank you oh ruinous pow..... oh... it's yet another update for Space Marines.

Nevermind

I'm sure someone will figure out to do a silver tower legally. Just as I'm sure a lot of non-marine armies will be rocking Librarians from now on, regardless of come the apocalypse allies.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

I am aware of Lash of Slaanesh, theres a reason its not around anymore.

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

I am aware of Lash of Slaanesh, theres a reason its not around anymore.

There have also been a bunch of abilities (psychic and otherwise) which moved enemy models randomly (as opposed to moving them to a location of the enemy player's choosing).

I don't see that it's that big of a deal.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

I am aware of Lash of Slaanesh, theres a reason its not around anymore.

There have also been a bunch of abilities (psychic and otherwise) which moved enemy models randomly (as opposed to moving them to a location of the enemy player's choosing).

I don't see that it's that big of a deal.

Ok, you got me on that, but the operative term there is random. See when its random, no one has control and thats fine. If its a Psychic Power, i get to use any Psyker i may have to defend against it, and thats fine. Shifting Worldscape doesnt have either of those happen

Its not random, so my opponent gets to pick where im going (and its not a small distance in any event) and having a Psyker be present does nothing to boost your odds of shrugging it off.

This power is a seriously upgunned version of a Wood Elf Spell from Storm of Magic from WH:Fantasy, and that power could only move a forest 6" when nothing was in it. When 40ks Psychic Powers are beating out Warhammer Fantasy's 8th ed magic, we have a problem

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

I am aware of Lash of Slaanesh, theres a reason its not around anymore.

There have also been a bunch of abilities (psychic and otherwise) which moved enemy models randomly (as opposed to moving them to a location of the enemy player's choosing).

I don't see that it's that big of a deal.

Ok, you got me on that, but the operative term there is random. See when its random, no one has control and thats fine. If its a Psychic Power, i get to use any Psyker i may have to defend against it, and thats fine. Shifting Worldscape doesnt have either of those happen

Its not random, so my opponent gets to pick where im going (and its not a small distance in any event) and having a Psyker be present does nothing to boost your odds of shrugging it off.

This power is a seriously upgunned version of a Wood Elf Spell from Storm of Magic from WH:Fantasy, and that power could only move a forest 6" when nothing was in it. When 40ks Psychic Powers are beating out Warhammer Fantasy's 8th ed magic, we have a problem

There have been guns that did that E.g. Eldar d-cannons for which there was no defence. Shok attak guns could swap the shooter with the target with no defence

The problem I have with it is that it makes no sense. You can't pick up a building (and even more so a ruin) without tearing it to pieces. It's not impossible but you would need to know how the building was designed and have a deep understanding of how construction materials handle different types of load. Then you have to use your mental powers to sculpt a pad to drop the foundations into so if doesn't dearly itself the moment you at it down. All stuff that a librarian is not going to know.

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

 Scott-S6 wrote:

 Grimmor wrote:

In any event this Power is still breaking one of the unwritten rules of TT Wargaming "Thou shall not move the other persons models"

Abilities that let you move the other players models are not new to 40K.

I am aware of Lash of Slaanesh, theres a reason its not around anymore.

There have also been a bunch of abilities (psychic and otherwise) which moved enemy models randomly (as opposed to moving them to a location of the enemy player's choosing).

I don't see that it's that big of a deal.

Ok, you got me on that, but the operative term there is random. See when its random, no one has control and thats fine. If its a Psychic Power, i get to use any Psyker i may have to defend against it, and thats fine. Shifting Worldscape doesnt have either of those happen

Its not random, so my opponent gets to pick where im going (and its not a small distance in any event) and having a Psyker be present does nothing to boost your odds of shrugging it off.

This power is a seriously upgunned version of a Wood Elf Spell from Storm of Magic from WH:Fantasy, and that power could only move a forest 6" when nothing was in it. When 40ks Psychic Powers are beating out Warhammer Fantasy's 8th ed magic, we have a problem

There have been guns that did that E.g. Eldar d-cannons for which there was no defence. Shok attak guns could swap the shooter with the target with no defence

The problem I have with it is that it makes no sense. You can't pick up a building (and even more so a ruin) without tearing it to pieces. It's not impossible but you would need to know how the building was designed and have a deep understanding of how construction materials handle different types of load. Then you have to use your mental powers to sculpt a pad to drop the foundations into so if doesn't dearly itself the moment you at it down. All stuff that a librarian is not going to know.

All of this would be true, except that it's MAGIC... so physics, et al. doesn't apply.

Which is why it is so stupid.