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Made in us
Incorporating Wet-Blending






gungo wrote:
Then create a tabletop game simulator that allows that player to play anyone in the world.


Well, it's already being done on TableTop Simulator...

Spoiler:


Also found Warhammer Online, although it's an MMORPG. I'll let others discuss WH40K in videogames...







I'm not going to get into another argument with someone who thinks the way *they* paint is the *only* way to paint, am I?? 
   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




Recruitment of new players is the key. Forget rules quality, miniature price points, production methods etc. The tabletop hobby needs new blood constantly which means new never been involved before hobbyists.

Until another company has its own stores no one in miniature gaming will threaten GW. Warhammer's competition is PlayStation, Xbox, smartphones, any other hobby/trend for young people's time and money.

Yes people often 'graduate' into other game systems, manufacturers and versions of tabletop gaming. But it was GW that put a brush and dice in their hands and opened the portal from the wallet to the pile of shame. Speak to historical gamers of a certain age and they will often have similar stories of starting with airfix. Shift down the generations and GW becomes the universal story.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Aye and with airfix/Revel sort of out of the general lime light these days (along with Meccano); that leaves GW taking a lions share of the "hands on creative" hobbies outside of arts and crafts and the mature lego lines.

In fact of all those games only Lego and GW have really persisted in any strength at the younger end of the market; and of that part of Lego surviving was marketing itself out to the movie tie-in industry side of things.

Many of the other hands on hobbies are all limited to a more mature market, which is fine for now whilst nostalgia rules, but it leaves them with far less youthful recruitment and a ticking time bomb that their market is continually going to shrink. I can see companies like Hornby having trouble in years to come when they've no youth to replace the older generations.


Historical games are much the same, though because they sort of cross over with sci-fi adn fantasy games they can at least expect to get some from GW's massive recruitment of new gamers. But, again, there's no massive marketing drive to get people who are not already wargamers/modelmakers into the hobby.

   
Made in gb
Been Around the Block




If you look at the history of hornby etc and the number of times they've been bought and sold as a company it really shows how little profit there is in it. It would have been entirely reasonable for GW to have been bought up at some point in the last 20 years when it wasn't doing so great. Hasbro would love to get they're hands on it.

Totally agree with the point about hands on hobbies. So much of it now rides in the wake of GW and it really should be recognised.
   
Made in ie
[DCM]
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon





Dublin

This is a great thread


For me personally:

1. Miniatures: Decent quality figures I rank this ahead of rules quality only because the models are usually the most expensive element of a game by far. If the rules are bad they can be fixed, you can use different ones or create your own. If the models are bad...

2. Rules: Ideally both fun and pseudo-realistic. I personally love highly tactical rules that make the course of a game seem like a feasible battle on some level (whether its fought with spears or railguns). I don't enjoy games with an over-reliance on synergies and buffing, or excessive randomness for things that shouldn't be random, e.g. units running. Compactness is also vital -the core rulebook and army list book should cover everything, with optional campaign books.

3. Lore / Background: Not essential (for games that are intended to be more generic), but if its rich and fascinating, painting and gaming will be more immersive and enjoyable, not to mention reading into it. I still follow the 40k universe despite having being disenchanted with the game itself a long time.

4. Factions: Distinct, well-balanced factions that handle differently. A decent variety of units, loadout options and upgrades in each. If 40k is excessive in the regard, many newer games like Warpath suffer from the opposite.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/17 21:15:32


I let the dogs out 
   
Made in us
Nimble Skeleton Charioteer





TheBrushKnight wrote:
Recruitment of new players is the key. Forget rules quality, miniature price points, production methods etc. The tabletop hobby needs new blood constantly which means new never been involved before hobbyists.

Until another company has its own stores no one in miniature gaming will threaten GW. Warhammer's competition is PlayStation, Xbox, smartphones, any other hobby/trend for young people's time and money.

Yes people often 'graduate' into other game systems, manufacturers and versions of tabletop gaming. But it was GW that put a brush and dice in their hands and opened the portal from the wallet to the pile of shame. Speak to historical gamers of a certain age and they will often have similar stories of starting with airfix. Shift down the generations and GW becomes the universal story.


This is very true in many ways.

Lately however (at least in America), it is Wizkids with the Nozlur range and Reaper with Bones that are putting brushes in peoples hands.

Now that I think about it; if Reaper set their minds to it they could become the GW of America - they produce their paint and minis at their Texas factory, and they have a (albeit mostly defunct and neglected) set of wargame rules. Hire Alessio at Riverhorse to breathe life into them, invest in a plastic injection machine and it's off to the races. They certainly could open their own stores in major American cities. However I don't think Ed wants to deal with what that would mean.
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

Reaper are big, but they seem to be happy being the "odd model" company and "RPG" supply company. They don't seem to have as much desire to be a wargaming company. I figure that they've got their niche and they feel that they make more than enough in that niche that they don't need to go "fighting" for another market.

A great part of their power is also appealing, esp with Bones, to the RPG and casual market who really don't care about models in the same way as wargamers. It's really interesting to see how powerful GW made "The Hobby" elements in their marketing because DnD models can be perpainted, a bit on the cheap side, often happy with just a white undercoat etc... And some might only see use once or twice if ever.

On the flipside they could have gone full "Kingdom Death" with highly detailed customisable player characters and such. But DnD isnt' interested in that kind of investment and Reaper and such are happier making characterful character models instead of complex customisable ones.

   
Made in at
'Jack Scrapper





Austria

GW changed the models aspect from pure gaming aid to be a modelling hobby as well

you see more and more GW models on scale model communities and there also the price is not a big problem (as you don't need an army)

but it also changed how Wargames care about their model

it is a pure marker on the table, a cardboard cube on a round base with a name tag on it will tho the same job as well as a 40€ model
yet the wargamer says the model needs to be the best looking available and does not care about the price
even if it only gets a terrible paint job and you want care about the high details as soon as you start playing

gaming models need to look good for the game, hence most R&F models look boring and miss details on the individual models as the important part is that they look good as regiment in formation from the distance

Skirmish models come with individual poses for each as you don't want 2 similar models in a 10 models game

and GW is the in the middle, using large amount of models in a Skirmish like games, yet already a 5 model squad as double poses that need a lot of work to change them
and people at the same time do not care about it because you need such a huge amount that double poses won't matter anyway on the table but the models also need to be as much detailed as possible

so there is no chance for someone like Reaper to get into the GW market
they could to Wargames but not for the GW customers as those want to have scale models to play with and not just game markers

Lokking at Mantic, those tried to sell "Markers" to GW clients and the main complain was that the game is bad because the models don't look as good as GW ones do
people rather paid 10 times the amount of money for a worse game than playing a game with "bad" models

and the funny thing is, the best selling Mantic games are those that attract different costumers
Deadzone and Walking Dead are considered Boardgames and Wargames/TableTops by a lot of people and this is reason why they sell

Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
 
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