What would it take for another table top game company to rival GW

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**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Touching the SG string again.

Underworlds. What a wonderful concept. Game itself seems pretty well received overall. And the various Warbands are more or less Pocket Money priced.

And it’s that specific price bracket that is a major strength.

No. I am not saying it’s objectively cheap. But, it is affordable. And kinda like WarCry, it’s a way for the designers to invest time and effort in a tiny set of original designs, which might never actually form a full AoS faction.

So for the customer more into the painting, they get a unique project to do a wunnerful job on for a really low price - with the added bonus they could happily field it in its parent game.

That’s something pretty special in GW terms, no?

**BobtheInquisitor**

“Really low price”?

We need a Gaming Theory of Relativity, where prices look smaller to observers in one frame of reference than they do to observers outside that frame of reference.

**privateer4hire**

Isn't there some sort of obsolescence (I mean actually advertised as a feature?) about Underworlds warbands? I remember reading discussions that things (cards only?) would rotate out just like in the CCG world.

**Turnip Jedi**

privateer4hire wrote:
Isn't there some sort of obsolescence (I mean actually advertised as a feature?) about Underworlds warbands? I remember reading discussions that things (cards only?) would rotate out just like in the CCG world.

Possibly not at the outset but was fairly obvious that was going to happen, it's the closest GW got to pulling me back it but had an inkling they would make card mistakes on top of rotation so held off, lack of elfs didn't help

**Hulksmash**

Warbands never "age out" but set cards do every 2 years. Its really bit that bad but each "season" will generally cost you about $300 if yours a completionist.

**Kanluwen**

Hulksmash wrote:
Warbands never "age out" but set cards do every 2 years. Its really bit that bad but each "season" will generally cost you about $300 if yours a completionist.

Worth mentioning that it's supposed to be generic set cards that age out, and even then only if they do not get repeated in a newer set.

One of the few things that really bugs me about Underworlds is that the starter set warbands are never made available until after the starter set is gone and that the generic cards are not really made available in a meaningful way outside of warbands. It's far too "gotta catch 'em all!" for my liking.

**kodos**

a typical TCG but with Minis

but it is true that it is unique for GW as it is reasonable cheap and a good system if you just play at home with family/friends
(same as Magic the Gathering is cheap if you just play at home and don't chase the meta)
which is also a reason for its success

and still if you play on events and try to keep up it is cheaper than AoS or 40k.

**Phobos**

aphyon wrote:
The only IP in the wargaming arena that i can think of that has the depth that GW has is classic battletech/mechwarrior. having started out around the same time as 40K, with a depth of lore as deep as anything GW ever wrote. then add a catalog of video games, novels, a collectable card game, a hero clix game and even a tv series to go along with the TT miniatures game. the fan base tends to be more in localized groups that the widespread nature of 40K that GW has created for many reasons(even though the fan base is just as devoted-never get a house davion and house kurita player started you will never hear the end of it)

The 2 main problems for it are
1.Unlike GW when the original parent company FASA went under the IP has changed hands between multiple companies and in some cases parts of it were broken off on their own. microsoft owns the video game side, wizkids had the card/clix game. ironwind metals makes most of the minis (new kickstarter aside) catalyst has the miniature game part and so on. so the kind of command and control of the IP is not available the way it is for GW.

2.The game itself, as a long time player i absolutely love it, however as a skirmish game it is super complex rules wise that directly makes it a small scale and long playing game. also because the scale is 1/300 there is not a lot of room for the hobby side of things other than painting.

There are currently many other game systems out there that are better than 40K ( i play several of them) but building/promoting the communities to support them is harder to do because GW has such a more accessible product.

You have an excellent point. Most people forget Battletech.

Part of the problem is FASA really didn't know what they were doing, and never hired anyone who did. They made so many mistakes, the most obvious was they didn't even have consistent branding - so many people don't realize that Mechwarrior and Battletech are the same thing!

**AduroT**

The boards in Underworlds also age out in addition to the non-faction-specific cards. Plastic models and faction-specific cards do not.