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 the_scotsman wrote:

Karol wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I agree it's easier when it comes to smaller sized units or larger auras. But take a painboy for instance, the FnP aura is only 3" which makes his positioning and nearby units very important, both for movements phase, charging and piling in. That kind of finnangling wouldn't really matter if you could just attach an IC to a unit as an option still.

Then you have auras that are "wholly within" which are a whole other headache, those can take quite a bit longer than a few seconds.

Or make the painboy work like ad mecha buffs. Point at a unit, it gets the buff and after the commande phase you don't worry about it till your next turn.

I would love Command Phase targeted buffs if it werent for the stupidity of never getting to use them if you

A) deep strike

B) disembark from a transport

given that that screws over particular armies, like lets say for the sake of argument I don't know maybe grey knights.

Pretty sure this is on purpose to limit the from-deep-strike bombs that were emblematic of 8th. If you want to fully buff up a squad it has to start on the table.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
I agree that standardization is a really risky thing to include or advocate for. I wouldn't want uniform board layouts for pick-up games at my shop.

Well, it seems that GW now has an article showing off boring symmetrical terrain.

I would love to know what that terrain is mounted on though...

Looks like pretty standard plexiglass to me.

It looks really ugly though. Why bother putting fulling painted terrain on a glossy surface that makes it look unfinished? Base your ruins, people. (or don't mount them at all).

Voss wrote:
It looks really ugly though. Why bother putting fulling painted terrain on a glossy surface that makes it look unfinished? Base your ruins, people. (or don't mount them at all).

I disagree. Why go the trouble of getting expensive terrain mats if you're just going to cover up big chunks of them with flat blocks covered in sand and brown paint.

I didn't even notice the plexiglass. Terrain setup looked so bad that I didn't want to take a closer look. Why a mix of parallel and diagonal buildings?

Remembering a Command Phase Buff isn't a problem when there aren't many of them.

If you're running a 1000pts of Necrons and you've only got one Overlord that's easy to remember.

When you're running 2000pts of Sisters and you've got half a dozen units with Command phase buffs it gets outrageous.

As for Over-complication it seems like a quantity problem. Too many Command phase abilities and way too many Auras are available.

When it comes to putting bases on terrain that can <help/hurt> your understanding of where the actual boundary is for the area terrain.

jullevi wrote:
Terrain setup looked so bad that I didn't want to take a closer look. Why a mix of parallel and diagonal buildings?

Because NOVA terrain set up is a unnatural symmetrical nightmare.

I was considering posting about this a week ago. I think it looks great and is a huge improvement to competitive play. I don't mind the plexiglass bases. The boards look extremely clean and easy to read. You know exactly where the area terrain ends, and it is the same clean line for every base.

If you are not playing actual, competitive tournament matches (virtually no one on this forum is), then the specifics of their board layouts has no impact on you. No club is going to switch to plexiglass bases and mandatory layouts for normal play.

Players in normal pick-up games may try to replicate these layouts. The layouts are definitely more fair than whatever random assortment happens to be laying around. I think existence of these examples can only improve play experience. Players can compare their terrain layouts to a standard. They have a clearer idea whether their board is fair, even if it isn't symmetrical.

But that "standard" will become the "only", and another element of creative colour will drain from 40k. That's the problem.

I disagree. In our 50PL Crusade league, we play on 44x60" tables rather than the "standard" "minimum" 44x30" (which is even bigger than the old 4x4' tables). Clubs and shops are going to do whatever their communities want.

I think it's fine if playing matched-play does move in the direction of standardized layouts. I'd be worried about it if narrative and casual play weren't so directly supported. Plenty of people play exclusively narrative games. The fact is that narrative play gets more campaign books than competitive. Standardized layouts aren't going to invade narrative because they don't make any sense for narrative games; the mission structures are almost always asymmetrical.

If this were back in 5th edition, I'd have agreed with you. There was exactly one way to play, and everything else was an after-thought or practically a homebrew. However, GW is doing a good job of supporting specific hobby niches: different game sizes and different levels of competition.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But that "standard" will become the "only", and another element of creative colour will drain from 40k. That's the problem.

People are going to get angry with me and accuse me of blaming the players when I say this.

But in this one case, I think it is very fair to say if this thing happens to you and your group, it is you and your group's fault and not GW's problem. If they start doing it at your store, be polite about it, be rational, and accept compromise when it is offered, but USE YOUR VOICE and don't let it happen. It's your hobby.

PenitentJake wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But that "standard" will become the "only", and another element of creative colour will drain from 40k. That's the problem.

People are going to get angry with me and accuse me of blaming the players when I say this.

But in this one case, I think it is very fair to say if this thing happens to you and your group, it is you and your group's fault and not GW's problem. If they start doing it at your store, be polite about it, be rational, and accept compromise when it is offered, but USE YOUR VOICE and don't let it happen. It's your hobby.

A game designer's job is to ensure their game is fun, that means attempting to limit the amount of people that optimize the fun out of the game. If Warcraft 4 Return of the Legion has a mission that is fun and appropriately difficult normally but boring and easy if you wait 5 minutes after every encounter to heal your units then the designer has made a mistake. Either the difficulty should be increased and fast healing should be provided or a mission timer should be added to reward fast or punish slow play.

PenitentJake wrote:
People are going to get angry with me and accuse me of blaming the players when I say this.

But in this one case, I think it is very fair to say if this thing happens to you and your group, it is you and your group's fault and not GW's problem. If they start doing it at your store, be polite about it, be rational, and accept compromise when it is offered, but USE YOUR VOICE and don't let it happen. It's your hobby.

It's hard to use your voice when tournaments are just doing it as normal.

 DarkHound wrote:
No club is going to switch to plexiglass bases and mandatory layouts for normal play.

Hahahahahaha

Ya, my local community doesn't actually go to the big events, but they only play tournament style games. I've tried to organize one off narrative events like "bring 25PL and see how long your can stand up against the infinite Tyranid Infestation/Awakening Tomb world/Ork Infestation" for one afternoon, everyone said they'd be interested, but then some huge meta thing dropped and they all bailed to "get in tournament practice".

Apparently that's not an uncommon scene.

Wow, what a bunch of super-boring maps. No barricades or dense terrain anywhere...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's hard to use your voice when tournaments are just doing it as normal.

But you don't play at those tournaments. Let the tournament players do their own thing.

 Blndmage wrote:

 DarkHound wrote:
No club is going to switch to plexiglass bases and mandatory layouts for normal play.

Hahahahahaha

Ya, my local community doesn't actually go to the big events, but they only play tournament style games. I've tried to organize one off narrative events like "bring 25PL and see how long your can stand up against the infinite Tyranid Infestation/Awakening Tomb world/Ork Infestation" for one afternoon, everyone said they'd be interested, but then some huge meta thing dropped and they all bailed to "get in tournament practice".

Apparently that's not an uncommon scene.

I'm sorry to hear that, but it does also sound like a bit of a big ask to set up a big homebrew event. Consider what you actually want to get out of it, and maybe start smaller. If you just want to play games, maybe ask to play missions out of the narrative section (a lot of them are really thematic and even scale fine outside their designated point size). You could get a couple friends to play a small Crusade league (with a pre-defined end point) or play through a campaign book. It's one thing to say "I tried to start a big homebrew event and people weren't interested" and another to say "nobody plays anything except GT missions".

But you don't play at those tournaments. Let the tournament players do their own thing.

In the end what and how stuff get played at tournaments, ends up on the tables in pick up games at the store.

And stuff like crusade or open don't really help either, because the rule sets, while different, give more then enough opportunity to break stuff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

PenitentJake 799082 11161205 wrote:

People are going to get angry with me and accuse me of blaming the players when I say this.

But in this one case, I think it is very fair to say if this thing happens to you and your group, it is you and your group's fault and not GW's problem. If they start doing it at your store, be polite about it, be rational, and accept compromise when it is offered, but USE YOUR VOICE and don't let it happen. It's your hobby.

Yeah just come in to the start pimp slapping people left and right, telling them they have to obey you, just so you can have fun. How stuff like this suppose to even work in communities? I can imagine the store or club owner to implement the rules, because if someone ignores them, they will just get a life long ban , and good bye investment of 800+$ down the drain. But a regular person, or better yet a teen trying to covince a 30+ year old to play his way and the the way the rules are set up in the rule book. That stuff a person would have to check mark for this to work are long list, and most of them have nothing to do with the game .