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Is it possible to ask for clarification on how the following units work now?

Gretchin & Runtherd
Any kind of Artillery
Terminators with storm shields

Basically, what's the deal with mixed toughness / save units? Do they still exist? Do you have to buy two units to make what used to be one? What battlefield role do they take and do they use a 'slot'?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.

And here I was thinking "wow grav sounds strong I hope they dropped the rate of fire".

It's stil an anti-everything weapon, possibly even more so.

changemod wrote:

Aenar wrote:
the Monolith who should be a bit more than 380 points

I was almost worried it might be good for a second there.

(In all seriousness it may still be good, but that makes it sound very prohibitive to field multiples, and the Obelisk must be really pricey if that's the case. I own two and an obelisk so it being over 1000 just to field the three would be a little disappointing even if the rules fully justify the price)

IF it can still deepstrike (now with no scatter) AND still has some sort of teleportation mechanism with it's portal, I'd say that 380 points is just fine. It's a beast with that particle whip and the ability to gain back wounds with pretty strong defensive stats. It sucks that it makes it difficult to be redundant with it, but if it all pans out I'll take that for the trade off of it at least being worth it's points for the first time since like 3rd edition.

Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."

It'd need to say "that can fly" to have an effect

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.

Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?

Something for Eldars:
- Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
- Wraithknight W24 S8 T8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds.
- D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4

 Verviedi wrote:
Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."

It'd need to say "that can fly" to have an effect

Yes but that's the kind of "exact raw" thing that's not even worth bringing up.

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it possible to ask for clarification on how the following units work now?

Gretchin & Runtherd

Pfff, better ask about stompa and dreds with kans. Or about boys. Grots generally the last thing to worry about.

 Enginseer Kalashnikov wrote:
Could someone confirm if Legion and chapter Tactics are still around? And if so, what does the Death Guard one give your units?

GW confirmed that they will still exist yonks ago.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.

Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?

If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...

But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?

Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.

The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...

At least it has a 2+?

The new grav looks ok to me. Wounds most things on 3+ to 5+, reduces the save of most things to zero and inflicts multiple wounds on high save units. I assume it still has a high rate of fire?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I guess Oblits aren't getting a plastic kit any time soon. Wow did they do a number on them. This really is "Roll Lots of Dice" edition. Yikes...

But the real tragedy here is that they made the Land Raider T8. Toughness 8. In a game where they've said characteristics aren't limited to 10, what they really meant was Wounds, right?

Toughness 8. Best tank in the universe (fluff-wise), and the whole reason I started playing 40K, the original model of which is one of my most cherished models... and it's T8.

The Dread should be T8. The Land Raider should be T10. God-damn it GW...

This is utter nonsense. It's one point lower toughness than a damn Bio-titan had in 7E, along with more wounds and a 2+ save it didn't get before. What's more, there are now hard limits preventing it being insta-killed by all but the very biggest weapons in the game; Land Raiders won't exactly be getting popped by a railgun on turn 1. This is not going to be trivial to kill by any stretch.

Aenar wrote:
Something for Eldars:
- Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.

Good lord.

changemod wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.

Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?

If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.

Only one Grav weapon in the game was six shots, and that was the Heavy Grav Cannon. The Grav Gun was 3 max, Grav Cannon was 5 max. It is wounding a Wraithknight on a 5, it used to wound them on a 3. If Grav Amps still allow rerolls to wound, that will help the Grav Cannon, but a regular Grav Gun is not very good.

 WildDuck wrote:

 Perfect Organism wrote:
Is it possible to ask for clarification on how the following units work now?

Gretchin & Runtherd

Pfff, better ask about stompa and dreds with kans. Or about boys. Grots generally the last thing to worry about.

It's not that I'm excited about grots, it's that I'm curious how units which mix models with very different statlines work. The Tau sniper drones seem to no longer have their spotter in the unit, which raises all kinds of questions.

 XT-1984 wrote:
Lord of Skulls only 465 points now... Do we know what the standard sized game is for 8th?

1500, 2000?

It's mad eh. Just for fun I dig out my old 3rd Edition Blood Angels list and recost it with every edition, and if the leaks are any indication over the years GW will have turned a 2000pt Marine army into somewhere in the region of 1000pts. I can't even imagine how hilarious the difference would be for a 2nd Ed army.

I can only hope that 8th isn't hideously unbalanced at lower point values, because personally I still prefer playing Epic in 6-8mm not 28mm.

Aenar wrote:
Something for Eldars:
- Warp Spiders M7" Save 3+, can choose to move 4d6 and get Fly but cannot Advance nor Charge. Flickerjump gives -1BS to enemy but you roll 2D6 and on a 2 you lose a Warp Spider. Death Spinner is 18" Rapid Fire S6 Ap-4. With Exarch you reroll failed Morale tests.
- Wraithknight W24 S8 R8 Save 3+. Wraithcannon is Assault 2 S10 Ap-4 DmgD6, Ghostglaive is Sx2 Ap-4 Dmg6 straigth (no D6 roll). Hits on a 3+ and gets worse losing wounds.
- D-Scythes are 8" AssaultD3 S10 Ap-4

Any info for the avatar of khaine, the solitaire, and the c'tan?

Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).

Please be patient and understanding

No, you keep doing you man. We appreciate any info we get. Thank you.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

changemod wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Wow, Grav being Str 5, AP -3 sucks pretty bad, even if it does d3 wounds against 3+ or better saves. It is barely going to wound anything.

Major exageration - its just less likely to broken now - which is the whole point of the new game I thought - not to have have the same issue of broken wepaons, units, formations etc?

If a Grav weapon is still 6 shots and reroll to wound, that profile is -devastating-, and is even good against low save hordes, the one thing Grav couldn't really scratch before.

Only one Grav weapon in the game was six shots, and that was the Heavy Grav Cannon. The Grav Gun was 3 max, Grav Cannon was 5 max. It is wounding a Wraithknight on a 5, it used to wound them on a 3. If Grav Amps still allow rerolls to wound, that will help the Grav Cannon, but a regular Grav Gun is not very good.

I wasn't aware that the marine one had one less shot, I play admech when it comes up.

Still, it's the Grav cannon, either variant, that everyone was complaining about for the most part. It was the game breaker and still what'll be the source of most complaint.

And even on Grav bikes, no you are wrong, that is stil a highly dangerous profile that's good at killing any target.

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

Mephiston sure seems like a huge downgrade from the pocket hive tyrant he's been for the past few editions.

 Perfect Organism wrote:

It's not that I'm excited about grots, it's that I'm curious how units which mix models with very different statlines work. The Tau sniper drones seem to no longer have their spotter in the unit, which raises all kinds of questions.

I imagine they'll work the way AoS handles it, you used to have Salamanders and Skink handlers in the same unit. Now you buy both separately, they are in separate units but the Salamander gets buffed if the Skink handlers are within a certain distance.

So you'll probably see Grotherders giving the Grots a bonus to morale, or extra attacks, or re-rolls or anything really. Same for the Tau spotter, he'll probably give the sniper drones a buff to hit I imagine.

Blood Angels:
Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character

Aenar wrote:
Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).

Please be patient and understanding

Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?

Grazie

 Verviedi wrote:
Fun fact. The Heldrake Claws profile, RAW, does not allow hitting Flying targets on +1, because it states "When attacking models than can fly, you may add 1 to this weapon's hit roll."

It'd need to say "that can fly" to have an effect

Fun fact, if you tried to argue that in an actual game you don't have to worry about the wording of rules anymore.

Because nobody would want to play with you.

 Bertock wrote:

Aenar wrote:
Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).

Please be patient and understanding

Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?

Grazie

Nothing yet on SW sadly, I will post everything I can until I can.
By the way, the Italian server is now overloaded

Aenar wrote:

 Bertock wrote:

Aenar wrote:
Important disclaimer: I don't have the indices and I am translating from Italian. I am not sure to translate everything correctly but I'm trying to reference current rules to be accurate. The profiles given may not include additional rules (i.e. tau railguns, according to ATT have a chance to do mortal wounds, while the italian guy does not give any indication of that).

Please be patient and understanding

Can you tell a fellow Italian player some rules for the Space Wolves?
Can the Grey Hunters still take chainswords or terminator sergeants?
What are the rules for the Wulfens or the TWC?
What's the WS and BS of the Claws units?
Do the Scouts and the Long Fangs have stats or rules that show that they are veteran soldiers instead of recruits like the other ones?

Grazie

Nothing yet on SW sadly, I will post everything I can until I can.
By the way, the Italian server is now overloaded

It was inevitable when you started posting about this

Also, don't worry, thanks anyway

Aenar wrote:
Blood Angels:
Black Rage gives +1A on the charge and ignores a wound on a roll of a 6.
Death Company: 2A each, models can take different loadouts
Lemartes allows rerolling charge distance and to hit rolls in melee to DC units within 6"
Sanguinary Guard rerolls to hit rolls if there is a BA general within 6"
Death Mask gives -1 Discipline to enemies within 3"
Encarmine Sword Ap-3 DmgD3, Axe S+1 Ap-2 DmgD3
Sanguinor has WS2+ W4 S4 T4 A5, can charge even if he used Fall Back, gives +1A to every BA within 6"
Dante has WS2+ W6 S4 T4 A5 Save 2+, allows BA units within 6" to reroll to hits. Axe is S+2 Ap-3 DmgD3, rerolls to wound if it is a Character

Hmmm, Death Company with Chainswords will have four attacks on the charge. Their FNP was nerfed, but it no longer can be ignored. Lemartes will make Death Company crazy good. Dante and Sanguinary Guard have duplicate bonuses, so that kind of sucks. The Encarmine weapons look mean as hell though. Sanguinor looks like the better option for running with SG, since he gives a bonus attack and they reroll attacks when near him.

Mephiston looks pretty mean as well, hitting at Str 10, Ap-3, d3 wounds is pretty potent. If he still has 4 attacks, he will wreck face.

 warboss wrote:

KurtAngle2 wrote:
Mephiston

M 7" / WS 2+ / BS 2+ / S 5 / T 5 / W 5 / S 2+
His sword is S X2 / -3 VP / D3 Wounds
Ignores Wounds and mortal wounds on a 5+
Casts/Dispels (with an added +1 bonus) 2 powers and knows 3 Powers from BA discipline

Tervigon

M 8" / WS 4+ / BS 4+ / S 7 / T 8 / W 14 / S 3+

Creates a unit of 10 barebone termagants or can add up to 10 dead barebone termagants to an unit (not over the unit size at the start of the game)

Mephiston sure seems like a huge downgrade from the pocket hive tyrant he's been for the past few editions.

There might be extra info we're not seeing right now, but also I assume they want to leave plenty of headroom on the "big name" characters in case they decide to Restartes them when their faction book rolls around.