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So there's supposed to be something going down at my GW store this weekend. Does anyone know what these events are? Don't want to drive all the way there for nothing.

Ahtman wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:While everyone complains about the rules, I am sitting her wondering how I am supposed to justify a $75 game book.

I suppose the same way we justify the cost of anything Warhammer related, such as $50 for 5 little plastic Terminators. If you think this is bad you may want to avoid a website called 'Forgeworld'. Your head will explode.

Happygrunt wrote:I mean, seriously.

Oh good, I thought may you were joking.

Oddly enough, I do own some FW stuff, and actually didn't mind the price, seeing as it is not required to play the game with. When the main rulebook is $75+ dollars (That is more expensive that all the IA books except for Taros and Badab 2, for those keeping score at home) and I need it to play the game, then I think I can complain at least a little bit about prices.

And what is with the hostility my friend? We are all friends here.

spacewolf407 wrote:So there's supposed to be something going down at my GW store this weekend. Does anyone know what these events are? Don't want to drive all the way there for nothing.

Call the store and ask?

So are vendettas worse or better now that they fly?

Happygrunt wrote:And what is with the hostility my friend? We are all friends here.

It wasn't meant to come across as hostile.

Happygrunt wrote:I can complain at least a little bit about prices.

I've always assumed that that is part of the game.

Im still going to rock my DW with 3 land raiders cos they look bloody awsome and if i can take more than 3 hell yeah!

My Ravenwing is also going to use the Stormraven (legally now) and a couple of Stormtalons (not legal probably, so will still have to ask) my RW army is gonna look a bit like this


2 Stormtalons
1 stormraven
1 stormeagle
6 land speeders
2 ravenwing attack sqauds with attack bikes (yay no more free KP)
Liby on Bike (to test out new powers)
Sammael

Will it be competative... who cares,will it look cool...god damn right it will and thats all that matters

Really even the people who've said "No more GW ever" can easily justify this book. It's one thing to swear off GW products due to the price. It's another entirely to be unable to play the game because you're not keeping up with the rules, even if you aren't buying any more models.

Happygrunt wrote:While everyone complains about the rules, I am sitting her wondering how I am supposed to justify a $75 game book. I mean, seriously.

I might say "Thanks, but not thanks" and stay with 5th.

You could just apply some common sense and simply buy the minibook that will invariably come with the starter in two months... As for the price of the hardback, it's 100 pages longer than the current one and in full color... which is never cheap. Could they have sold it as a loss leader like the Pathfinder RPG core book? Sure.. but as the leader in the market (instead of a new up and comer), they don't have to and they know it. I'm not happy about the price or with GW overall for the past year but I'm still willing to give it a try in some form. Personally, I'm still deciding if I should take up my FLGS offer for 15% off (would rather support them than a cheaper online store) the hardback or just wait for the minibook (which I'll get a copy of regardless of whether I get the hardcover).

Therion, you've been implying via the hull points discussion that you and your buds have access to the rulebook at the local GW. Is that accurate? If so, how come you're not giving us more intel!?

One specific thing I'd love to know is whether they've done anything to fix the Fearless/No Retreat quagmire.

Another great scoop would be information about the hypothetical reintroduction of a Fear rule, as implied by the issue of WD.

Also, how exactly psychic powers are used in regards to the "Warp Charge" attribute seen on the spell cards.

Altruizine wrote:Therion, you've been implying via the hull points discussion that you and your buds have access to the rulebook at the local GW. Is that accurate? If so, how come you're not giving us more intel!?

One specific thing I'd love to know is whether they've done anything to fix the Fearless/No Retreat quagmire.

Another great scoop would be information about the hypothetical reintroduction of a Fear rule, as implied by the issue of WD.

Also, how exactly psychic powers are used in regards to the "Warp Charge" attribute seen on the spell cards.

AND ALSO I NEED INFO ON ALLIES!!!!!!

please if posssible, thank you.

Anyone know anything about wound allocation? Will Draigowing lists suffer because of this new addition?

Well, it sounds like in general complex units will no longer work for wound schenanigans. That being said terminators are getting a big buff in that power weapons are now AP3 and you'll now get to use FNP (albeit 5+ FNP) on everything < S8.

So draigowing get worse but in general termies get better and TH/SS termies get a worse?

Good

With the new rules that I am seeing, looks like my Blood Angels will be just fine, and now I won't be laughed at for playing Death Company so that's nice. Dark Eldar are a bit more questionable, but I've been wanting to do a WWP list for a while and with reserves bumping to a 3+ for 2nd turn? That's a great boon for reserves lists. What I really want to know is if there is any way to mitigate the rage mandatory movement or if that will even be in the rules for 6th.

If vehicles are as awful as everyone is saying, I'll look forward to picking up cheap rhinos on eBay to fill out my BA company. And I am quite excited to be able to use all those Space Hulk shooty terminators more often as well.

TH/SS got better... I don't see anything thus far that made single wound terminators worse..

I'd say overall draigo wing probably got better. Now they aren't susceptible to regular power weapons, and now even if you shoot them with Plasma, they get their invul plus 5+ FNP now. Unless you're a heavy torrent of fire army that is. Then you can make him lose paladins a lot faster than previously.

Formosa wrote:Im still going to rock my DW with 3 land raiders cos they look bloody awsome and if i can take more than 3 hell yeah!

My Ravenwing is also going to use the Stormraven (legally now) and a couple of Stormtalons (not legal probably, so will still have to ask) my RW army is gonna look a bit like this


2 Stormtalons
1 stormraven
1 stormeagle
6 land speeders
2 ravenwing attack sqauds with attack bikes (yay no more free KP)
Liby on Bike (to test out new powers)
Sammael

Will it be competative... who cares,will it look cool...god damn right it will and thats all that matters

When did it become legal for DA to use Stormraven? I don't see that in our codex anywhere.

In the grim dark future there is only math hammer

6th ed AP3 to AP-=5th ed AP-
6th ed AP2=5th ed AP2 to AP6
6th ed AP1=5th ed AP1

Long fangs & Psyfleman dreads are now 5th ed AP-

Math Hammer Long fangs and Psyfleman hits versus AV11 target with 3 hull points.

5th edition 1/2 hits pen 1/3 hits wreck 6 hits=wrecked/explodes

6th edition 1/2 hits pe 1/6 hits explode=12 hits needed to explode

6th edition 2/3 glance/pen/whatever it loses a hull point. 4 hits=2.66666 hull points lost, 5 hits=3.33333 hull points lost

Long Fangs and Psyflemen will now glance targets to death far more often than they explode it. AV11 targets to take a over all hit in durability, but they are no longer stun locked by glances.

Next math hammer S8 versus AV13

5th edition 1/6 hits pen 1/3 hits wreck/explode=1/18 hits wreck/explode

6th edition 1/6 hits pen 1/6 explode=1/36 hits explode

6th edition 1/3 hits glance/pen=9 hits needed to strip 3 hull points, 12 hits needed to strip 4 hull points.

Overall it's a loss of durability for the target, but in increase in firepower as glances no longer shake a vehicle. Seeing as how the AV13 vehicle is only likely to take a single glance/pen a turn the changes of the AV13 vehicle remaining able to shoot after being hit by a krak missile barrage/psyfleman dread pretty much doubled.

Davor wrote:

Formosa wrote:Im still going to rock my DW with 3 land raiders cos they look bloody awsome and if i can take more than 3 hell yeah!

My Ravenwing is also going to use the Stormraven (legally now) and a couple of Stormtalons (not legal probably, so will still have to ask) my RW army is gonna look a bit like this


2 Stormtalons
1 stormraven
1 stormeagle
6 land speeders
2 ravenwing attack sqauds with attack bikes (yay no more free KP)
Liby on Bike (to test out new powers)
Sammael

Will it be competative... who cares,will it look cool...god damn right it will and thats all that matters

When did it become legal for DA to use Stormraven? I don't see that in our codex anywhere.

Allies.

morgendonner wrote:TH/SS got better... I don't see anything thus far that made single wound terminators worse..

I'd say overall draigo wing probably got better. Now they aren't susceptible to regular power weapons, and now even if you shoot them with Plasma, they get their invul plus 5+ FNP now. Unless you're a heavy torrent of fire army that is. Then you can make him lose paladins a lot faster than previously.

Even if they did get worse, Id just have to pull out my DOA BA

Davor wrote:

Formosa wrote:Im still going to rock my DW with 3 land raiders cos they look bloody awsome and if i can take more than 3 hell yeah!

My Ravenwing is also going to use the Stormraven (legally now) and a couple of Stormtalons (not legal probably, so will still have to ask) my RW army is gonna look a bit like this


2 Stormtalons
1 stormraven
1 stormeagle
6 land speeders
2 ravenwing attack sqauds with attack bikes (yay no more free KP)
Liby on Bike (to test out new powers)
Sammael

Will it be competative... who cares,will it look cool...god damn right it will and thats all that matters

When did it become legal for DA to use Stormraven? I don't see that in our codex anywhere.

Allies.

Do allies mean i can have

Three squads of long fangs and two squads of blood angel devestators?

Unknown for certain, but doubtful from what we've heard.

it sounds like you must take 1 HQ, 1 Troop of the ally army then you can take 1 Elite, 1 Fast, 1 Heavy.

ChocolateGork wrote:Do allies mean i can have

Three squads of long fangs and two squads of blood angel devestators?

Probably not.

Ahtman wrote:

Happygrunt wrote:While everyone complains about the rules, I am sitting her wondering how I am supposed to justify a $75 game book.

I suppose the same way we justify the cost of anything Warhammer related, such as $50 for 5 little plastic Terminators. If you think this is bad you may want to avoid a website called 'Forgeworld'. Your head will explode.

Happygrunt wrote:I mean, seriously.

Oh good, I thought may you were joking.

Except, Forgeworld stuff costs the same as most GW kits now. In some parts of the world, it is cheaper to purchase Forgeworld.

Something that just came to me is, in the 6th ed rule set, I wonder if the Living Metal rules that Necron vehicles have will be able to regenerate lost hull points or prevent their loss in the same way that it currently stops Shaken and Stunned results? If so, then Necron vehicles will be very tough to kill.

You need 1 HQ and 1 Troops of the allied faction before you can add anything else.

Overall it's a loss of durability for the target, but in increase in firepower

Not to discredit your math in any way but this is pretty much a given, considering vehicles can fire all their guns even if they're shaken or stunned, by using snap fire.

Overall we could interpret the situation as the following: You can destroy a parking lot much faster than before, but it's impossible for you to employ a strategy of just shaking or stunning them all to suppress their firepower for a turn. Not only will you get much fewer shaken and stunned results than before but even when you do the tanks can fire with BS1.

Zathras wrote:Something that just came to me is, in the 6th ed rule set, I wonder if the Living Metal rules that Necron vehicles have will be able to regenerate lost hull points or prevent their loss in the same way that it currently stops Shaken and Stunned results? If so, then Necron vehicles will be very tough to kill.

It sounds like it will help prevent hull points from being lost to begin with. Since you get to use Living Metal after every shake/stun that occurs, you have a chance to prevent each one.

Therion wrote:

Overall it's a loss of durability for the target, but in increase in firepower

Not to discredit your math in any way but this is pretty much a given, considering vehicles can fire all their guns even if they're shaken or stunned, by using snap fire.

Overall we could interpret the situation as the following: You can destroy a parking lot much faster than before, but it's impossible for you to employ a strategy of just shaking or stunning them all to suppress their firepower for a turn. Not only will you get much fewer shaken and stunned results than before but even when you do the tanks can fire with BS1.

Check upthread for question aimed @ you

It sounds like it will help prevent hull points from being lost to begin with. Since you get to use Living Metal after every shake/stun that occurs, you have a chance to prevent each one.

My understanding is that living metal won't affect glancing hits at all, and will from now on be a situational bonus save that happens when you suffer a penetrating hit that results in a shake or a stun. Then you get a saving throw against that result, and if you succeed you neither lose a hull point or get shaken or stunned. Why I say situational is that if you consider stuff like AP1 weapons who get +2 to the chart, the only way living metal does anything at all against a railgun is if the railgun penetrates but rolls a 1 for vehicle damage which is a stun after the modifier.

If so, how come you're not giving us more intel!?

I don't have any. We've been discussing the one piece of info (how vehicle damage works) we got today via Lukus and his friend.

We don't know yet what open-topped does. Maybe we get an answer to that and many other things tomorrow. Personally what I want to know next is who have access to skyfire (other than flyers and Hydras) and interceptor (other than some fortification) special rules.

I hope to get access to the rulebook on Monday myself and if I do I'll spill the beans about the whole thing.