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 Kingsley wrote:
Sad to see grav-guns get dumpstered by the new edition - Rapid Fire 1 is a huge nerf from Salvo 2/3, since it means that they will only fire one shot at 18" instead of potentially 3. I was hoping for Heavy 2.

To make matters worse, plasma guns cost less and are much improved thanks to variable power settings. The grav-cannon is still a valuable option, but I don't see why anyone would pay 15 points for a grav-gun when they could pay 13 points for a plasma gun, which has more range, higher strength, the same AP, and can overcharge if increased damage is necessary.

"On a hit roll of 1, the bearer is slain after all this weapons' shots have been resolved" That's pretty harsh. No more 'time to make a save'. You just lose the model. Every turn you rapid fire it, there is a 30% you will lose it. In 7th edition, a marine only had a 1/18 chance of dying from his PG.

1d3 damage is much better vs things with a 3+ armor save and lots of wounds -- like most vehicles we have seen. Grav is wounding everything we have seen thus far on a 5+.

I would not say grav is better or worse than plasma. It's more reliable than overcharged plasma and better at heavily armored targets.

My friend is planning to do necrons, and I think he's going to be very happy.

Dudeface wrote:
Plasma guns are damage 2 yes? So 1/3 of those are disregarded if I understood the rules as translated? So you're looking closer to 10 shots again with a plasma gun.

5/6. It blocks only if you roll less.

Made some more simulations and lascannon does average about 1.6dmg per wound that goes through saves and d3 weapon 1.1 or so.

 Weazel wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

Umm no. They don't roll at all, automatic 6 damage.

Sorry yes you are right - its only if the Necron player rolls a 6 I think.

from grot orderly

 Future War Cultist wrote:
My friend is planning to do necrons, and I think he's going to be very happy.

Opinions seem to be oscillating wildly between suicide watch and ecstasy. I'm still in the air when it comes to this particular coin flip.

If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:

1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW

First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.

Ignore me, can't read

Requizen wrote:
If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:

1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW

First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.

Here you go:

1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds

2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound

Vorian wrote:
So it's better and worse and OP and trash. Got it!

Doesn't seem that difficult to use. Remember how many were in it at the start, subtract the number still alive and roll. Hardly that complicated

changemod wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system.

I have more than 11,000 points worth of Necrons, so I guess over 20,000 in the new system, and I am annoyed by this system.

But then you've been annoyed by so much it kind of loses any meaning

I've liked about as much as I've disliked, and honestly there's been more people filled with so much glowing positivity it loses all meaning.

 Garion wrote:
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

How does that interact with units with mixed wound values, I wonder? If they even exist any more (surely nobs didn't get nerfed down to 1 wound?)...

Well, Quantum Shielding is OP as hell vs. highly damaging weapons. Melta is going to be awful against vehicles equipped with it. Again, mass plasma is the winning combination here. Overcharging only gives a 16.7% chance of the wounds not going through. The fact it can deflect a frickin' reaper chainsword is pretty lame. I guess if you keep shooting at it with the heavy stubber...

 Garion wrote:

Requizen wrote:
If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:

1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW

First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.

Here you go:

1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds

2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound

Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).

Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?

I think what's really going to make/break the Necrons is:

1. What's the exact ruling for Living Metal (How durable does it actually make the unit).
2. How does the Night Scythe Invasion Beam work.
3. How does the Ghost Ark's repair barge power work.
4. Is there any way Wraiths can have access to WBB?

Why? Because, as a Necron Player, I need to know about two things, Durability and Mobility. I don't have to worry about weapons. The Necrons always have amazing weapons. Have you looked at the ranged weapon profiles listed?

 Perfect Organism wrote:

 Garion wrote:
2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

How does that interact with units with mixed wound values, I wonder? If they even exist any more (surely nobs didn't get nerfed down to 1 wound?)...

It can be referring to the majority value of the unit. It look likes there is a missing word in the pict

Eyjio wrote:

 xttz wrote:

Eyjio wrote:
I'm more concerned about how fragile Necron vehicles are

Uh, did you see what Quantum Shielding does now?

Yes, I saw that it's 90% useless, why? Plasma guns have gone from 27 shots to kill an Annihilation Barge (without jinking, which they probably would, making them stronger still) to 18 without overcharging. With overcharging in the current rules, it's 10.8 shots. That more than double as effective on an extremely common gun. BS 3+ Lascannons, assuming they're the new heavy weapon to beat, only take ~7.7 shots to kill one. That's really, really frail.

Mathhammer like this doesn't really work on rules that protect against outliers rather than averages, a single roll can have a statistically huge effect. All it takes is for a few of those 7.7 lascannons to roll 4+ damage and there's a decent chance of ignoring them altogether. Also, those 7.7 lascannons plus whatever they're attached to will cost way more than any Annihilation Barge, so I'd hardly call that 'frail'.

As a Tyranid player, I'd kill for a rule that lets me ignore a bunch of lascannon, melta or railgun damage.

Requizen wrote:

 Garion wrote:

Requizen wrote:
If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:

1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW

First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.

Here you go:

1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds

2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound

Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).

Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?

Something like this:

Command Barge
Stats: 12" 2+WS 2+BS S5 T6 W8 A3 Ld10 3+Sv
Living Metal
Command Wave (?): +1 to advance, charge and hit within 12" to one unit. Not stacking with other buffs like this.
Quantum shielding: Avoids dmg if you roll (d6) less than the damage received.
Ressurrection Orb: Repeat RP rolls (theres more info but its cut)
Explodes: When it dies, roll a d6, on 6 it explodes and deals ? Mortal Wounds to every unit within ? (cut too)
A vehicle that flies, nothing on chariots or the OLord able to disembark.

My italian is travel too, but I give you something

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
Well, Quantum Shielding is OP as hell vs. highly damaging weapons. Melta is going to be awful against vehicles equipped with it. Again, mass plasma is the winning combination here. Overcharging only gives a 16.7% chance of the wounds not going through. The fact it can deflect a frickin' reaper chainsword is pretty lame. I guess if you keep shooting at it with the heavy stubber...

It's worse than riptides nova shield. Vs lascannon it's 55% protection. Krak 36 or so.

Optimal gun to shoot is likely autocannon btw

changemod wrote:

Vorian wrote:
So it's better and worse and OP and trash. Got it!

Doesn't seem that difficult to use. Remember how many were in it at the start, subtract the number still alive and roll. Hardly that complicated

changemod wrote:

xerxeshavelock wrote:
I can't imagine any Necron player I've ever known being annoyed by this system.

I have more than 11,000 points worth of Necrons, so I guess over 20,000 in the new system, and I am annoyed by this system.

But then you've been annoyed by so much it kind of loses any meaning

I've liked about as much as I've disliked, and honestly there's been more people filled with so much glowing positivity it loses all meaning.

I'm approaching it as "I'm presuming the people who have stated that balance and enabling diversity aren't absolute idiots and have foreseen most things that seem to be ridiculously OP, UP or a nightmare of micromanagement and there's more to it"

Some people are specifically waiting to find something to post snark about the "most playtested version ever" so they can tell us all how terrible GW is - but I'm operating on the assumption that putting a GW T-shirt on doesn't automatically make you an idiot.

Give it a while and wait until you have a full picture before the whinging begins.

This thread is being watched by Natfka pretty heavily, keeps crediting us to his news posts!
Hi Natfka!

I have stopped looking at previews.

I want to see the whole thing, and not bits and pieces.

"Blah and blah were nerfed!"

"Sure, but how were Blah and Blah changed to balance it?"

I'm not ready to hit the panic button. Not yet, anyway.

Will you have to change tactics and design your army a bit differently? Sure. We all will, actually.

BrianDavion wrote:
in fairness the rhino IS supposed to be famed for it's durability.

that and I suspect thats a play testing issue, rhinos proably where getting popped early and fast, inflicting too many casualities, leading to GW to toughen them up in response

One of the key things I noticed is that there is no reference to 'fire points' on the rhino.

This means that, unless the trait 'transport', gives some of the units inside the ability to fire out -- then the Rhino is just a transport - not a mobile bunker.

Edit : If I missed something that indicates otherwise, please let me know. I remember in the DE faction focus they talked about how all the models could shoot out of the raider, but I don't see anything about that for the rhino.

 MoonlightSonata wrote:
So, can anyone read Italian? Necron info:

Spoiler:

Between Latin, French, and Spanish I can read a decent amount surprisingly.

Has anyone pointed out the return of cryptek gear? Lancia ultraterrana are the old eldritch lance weapons unless I'm horribly mistaken. Bastone del domani would be aeon staff as well, I think at least.

Just noticed, If your lucky you could potentially attack three times in one turn with a Penitent engine!

Any news on khàrn?

Requizen wrote:

 Garion wrote:

Requizen wrote:
If I'm half translating the C'tan powers right:

1) On a 2+, a unit within 24" takes d3 Mortal Wounds
2) Pick a unit within 24" and roll against their wounds characteristic? Remove the model if it's higher? Rough translation
3) Pick a unit and roll a d6 for each model within 24" of the C'tan, on a 6 it takes a MW

First for general use, second for elite mid toughness units, third for hordes? Seems good if I'm reading them right.

Here you go:

1) Roll a D6; on a 2+ the nearest visible enemy unit within 24" suffer D3 mortal wounds

2) Select a visible enemy unit within 24" and roll a D6. If the result is greater than the Wound characteristic of the target unit a model in that unit is slain

3) Roll a D6 for each model in the nearest enemy unit within 24". For each result of 6 the unit suffer a mortal wound

Thanks, seems I wasn't too far off (travel Italian doesn't really translate to Warhammer rules).

Can you give a quick rundown of the Command Barge stats and abilities?

Command Barge

Standard loadout:

Overlord with staff of light
The barge is armed with a Gauss Cannon

Options:

The Overlord can swap the staff of light with an object from the melee weapons list
The Overlord can take a resurrection globe
The barge can replace the Gauss Cannon with a Tesla Cannon

Abilities

Living Metals

Command wave (?) : at the beginning of each of your turns select an Infantry unit of the friendly <Dynasty> within 12" of this model. You can add 1 to the Advance / Charge / Hit rolls of that unit until the beginning of your next turn. An unit can't be subject to both Command wave and Let my will be done in the same turn

Quantum shielding : every time this model suffer an unsaved wound roll a D6. If the result is lower of the attack damage, the damage is ignored (eg: if you suffer 4 damages and you roll a 3 or less, the damage is ignored)

Resurrection Globe : the text is cut but it look like you can make another Rianimation Roll for a nearby Infantry unit of the same Dynasty after you make one for the Barge/Lord

Explode: roll a D6 before you remove the model from the table (when it react 0 wounds I guess). On a 6 it explodes and any unit (withing X"?) suffer a mortal wound


Keywords: Vehicle, Overlord, Fly, Catacomb.c.b.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I have no idea how to figure out the maths but the better the Lascannon or other multiple damage weapon rolls the more likely it is to be ignored? Did you factor that in?

Imperial Knights Chainsaw's or similar mega damage weapons can only inflict any damage if they roll a 6.

Yes, though I did it incorrectly. There's 36 possibilities for 2 dice being rolled, and in 15 of them you ignore the damage, so it's actually like a 4.5++ save. That means it's more like 8.81 lascannons. Still frail just not as bad as I said. The other maths still all works out.

Mathhammer like this doesn't really work on rules that protect against outliers rather than averages, a single roll can have a statistically huge effect. All it takes is for a few of those 7.7 lascannons to roll 4+ damage and there's a decent chance of ignoring them altogether. Also, those 7.7 lascannons plus whatever they're attached to will cost way more than any Annihilation Barge, so I'd hardly call that 'frail'.

Mathhammer is good for exactly the reason that it is an average without outliers. Sure, you can say snipers are the best guns in the game if you roll all 6's to wound, but the average is far less. Likewise, it's fair to say that an annihilation barge is weak if the maths behind it average out to make it look weak.

You can't compare units to the cost to eliminate them in a single turn either, that's a poor judge of how good something is. The fact of the matter is that Annihilation Barges have gone from a particularly durable heavy support to one which is likely dead in the first or second turn. Even if it's balanced, they're frail and it's a change for, as far as I can tell, very little reason at all.

 kronk wrote:
I have stopped looking at previews.

I want to see the whole thing, and not bits and pieces.

"Blah and blah were nerfed!"

"Sure, but how were Blah and Blah changed to balance it?"

I'm not ready to hit the panic button. Not yet, anyway.

Will you have to change tactics and design your army a bit differently? Sure. We all will, actually.

My friend and I played a game yesterday extrapolating as much as possible and not stressing about exact points. The game plays in ways you don't expect. It was quite enjoyable.

anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies

Iago40k wrote:
anyone got a link to the 40k 4chan-board (actually I am too stupid to find my way to that damn board with its hundreds of archives -.-) or knows if they got some new leaks over there? need my fix and finally something for my armies

http://boards.4chan.org/tg/thread/53511328
Just normally go to 4chan.org/TG/Catalog
Then press search, type 40k, look for /40KG/


Automatically Appended Next Post:
PM me if there are more leaks on there, I'm going to sleep. Good night